Need some advice

[Blackwater]

Just got in from finally getting my round tuit to form 100 new Hornady brass from .303 Brit. to .358 Malcolm (.35/.303 Brit. Imp.). I loaded 9 gr. Unique under 1/2 sheet of bathroom tissue rolled tight and tamped down good, then filled the case with some grits I had that I can't eat any more (sigh!). Topped it off with 3 drops of candle wax from some little birthday candles we had on hand to seal it all in.

Report was good, but cases came out with necks slightly undersized and the case mouths didn't open up well, and looked like they'd been crimped in. It seems the wads didn't keep the pressure contained long enough to form them better. On firing, some of the TP wads broke into 100 pieces of small fragments, and some stayed largely intact, with a number of them landing on the roof due to the wind. Had the yard looking like it'd hailed in a small part of it, but that'll straighten out quickly with the next shower we get.

The shoulders were rounded and not fully filled out also. So it looks pretty much like my fireforming load didn't quite do the job. Any suggestions would be appreciated. The necks should open up and straighten out pretty well with my .35 Whelen Ackley dies with the tapered expander ball, but I'm not fully sure whether I want to load a bullet now to form the shoulders fully, or whether it'd be best to fire form again with a slightly "hotter" load and maybe a better wad.

I know some of you guys here have done more of this than I have, and would appreciate your insights and recommendations. I'm pretty much a miser, and like my cases to last as close to forever as I can get them to. Usually adjust my sizer dies specifically for my chambers, and that's helped me get some really long case life from my brass through the years. Would like to continue that with this neat old #4 that Tim built. I love this gun, and he certainly did a good job with it. Still needs a little tweaking of the feeding, but that's half the fun of these type projects - the pure challenge of it. Anybody got a good insight on what my next move should be with this brass? Thanks in advance for your insights and recommendations. There are so many ways to form them that my main consideration is not creating any weak stretch spots in it so it'll last as long as possible. I don't plan to stress it unduly as it should do anything I'll likely want or need with cast and very moderate loads.

[runfiverun]

well you gotta push those shoulders forward and the brass has to come from somewhere.
you might as well get it over with.
once the case is formed then it's done, the improved shoulders inhibit case stretching and is the best reason for using them.

load up some bullets and put 55-k behind them and be done with it.
your just gonna keep bashing things with the firing pin until you do.

[Blackwater]

Can't quite get 55K in the old #4, but I'll load up some J-bullets and do as you suggest. That was my inclination, but I just wasn't sure just what to do. Need to get them formed so I can use the hand dies that came with the rifle. After the j-bullets, will probably use cast almost exclusively. Have some 200 gr. Rem. PCL's that ought to do just fine. Thanks.

[fryboy]

meh , cast work well and is usually my projectile of choice especially for fireforming , even with jacketed i've had some cases that needed two stiff loads to fully form , i suppose you could also go for a hydro form as grumpa often does ( and has posted about )

[mart]

I've formed a bunch of cases with Cream of Wheat. Your load is pretty light. I went from 30-06 to 400 Whelen but it took 16 grains of Bullseye. I started going up from 12 grains, one grain at a time until I got well filled out shoulders. There is no need for the TP over the powder. I'd try 11-12 grains of Unique and then pour in the Cream of Wheat till it's up into the neck most of the the way. Then jam a crayon in the neck and break it off. That will serve to compress the filler a little and lock it in place until you get to the range or wherever you're going to conduct the fireforming. I always cleaned my barrel after firing 10 COW loads.

[EDG]

I use .303 brass to form 6.5X53R Dutch Mannlicher. I started with a start load with formed cases and worked up to the middle load in my data and shot them like regular ammo.
I would never stuff a case full of foreign material when you can use a cast bullet. The bullets I am using are jacketed.
While this is a rimmed round I formed the brass where there was about zero clearance between the shoulder and the chamber shoulder. There is no linear stretching at the shoulder but the diameter has to stretch because the the shoulder is larger than the .303 shoulder.

[Mk42gunner]

I agree with rfr, use a bullet and a healthy load to fully fireform brass. I have never had good luck trying to do it with any of the non projectile methods. Not saying it can't be done, I just have not had it work for me.

I am as stingy with my lead as the next guy, but if you have to use ½ of a normal powder charge two times and a couple of primers, what have you really saved? Especially with what primers and powder cost today.

Robert

[Blackwater]

Mk42, that's about what I've been thinking. No hurry on this project, since I still need to decide on a scope mounting system, and was looking at some yesterday to see what my options are. Also noted the bullet tips are low in feeding, so will have to find a way to get them up more so feeding will be better. It won't feed an empty case at all right now, but I expected that, so it's no surprise. I really like this rifle, and plan to restock it, but want to settle the scope mounting first so I can get the stock fitted for it just right. I think I'll cast up some RCBS 200's for it and some stiffish loads, and see what she'll do.

Thanks for the input. Recently formed some 7 Rem Mags into 7mm Wbys, and that went really well. I'm thinking blowing the neck out to a larger diameter is the problem I have now, but I always like to start low and work up. But the time and components expended seem to have me boxed in on this one, I think. Again, thanks for all the input.

[leadman]

I fire form quite a few different cartridges. Your load is too light. Increase to about 12 grains,more if the case does not form correctly. Fill the case with your grits (I use COW) and tamp case on flat surface to settle and fill to partway up the neck. I use boolit lube or wax in the case mouth to keep contents in the case. If possible aim the gun straight up as this helps form the case. Rub a very light coating of case lube on the front part of the case. Do not get on the bottom sides of the case as too much brass will be drawn from here and it will crack. This helps the front of the case flow while keeping the case from cracking at the junction of the base and walls.

For my Encore in 7mm Rem mag I use this procedure but with 20grs of Unique. P.O. Ackley recommended stout loads for fire forming.

[gunwonk]

I once tried fireforming .300 H&H to .300 Weatherby (.300 H&H was cheaper), using a stout but "normal" load, w/ bullet, and got shoulder splits. So much for my cheaper brass. :cry:

My gunsmith at the time suggested 15 grains of Bullseye, filling up the case with millet meal, and no bullet. This worked like a champ.

Grits or COW should be fine too, but I think what actually made the difference was to use a fast burning powder.

[blackthorn]

Quote "I once tried fireforming .300 H&H to .300 Weatherby (.300 H&H was cheaper), using a stout but "normal" load, w/ bullet, and got shoulder splits. So much for my cheaper brass. :cry:"

I bought my Weatherby in 1967. Cartridges were $1.00 each. This was when 30-06 sold for under $5.00 for 20. I bought several boxes of 300 H&H from a store that had them in stock for so long the yellow/white boxes were almost completely white. I got a real good deal by buying all he had. I took them and my Weatherby to the range and fired several of the H&H. The result was good enough that I used the rest for hunting Deer and Black Bear, then I worked up a stronger load for the Weatherby using the fire-formed cases. Never lost even one case!

[Huvius]

I would use your .358 expander ball to open up the necks and seat any boolit with a low end standard load.Of course, anneal your cases back to the existing shoulder first.I had to do this with my 360No.2 and they needed to be blown out a huge amount in my chamber. Never split a case forming them and have four or five reloads on them now.Sounds like a very logical .358 on the 303 case.