Alliants' BE-86

[Seeker]

Santa left me a pound of BE-86 under the tree, along with some AA#5 and Bullseye. I have some data so I'm just asking for your opinions on it, and experience with BE-86 and cast 300 grainers.

[RobS]

In what caliber?

[GRUMPA]

According to the burn rate chart it nestles right between Unique and Power Pistol.

[Seeker]

In what caliber?
45 Colt. Sorry, I've been having so much fun with this gun...I forget there are other calibers. My 45acp, .40 S/W and 9mms are being neglected terribly.

[RobS]

BE-86 is what I used for 230 grain boolits at top end in the 45 acp. Works very well for this application. I would think it would be about perfect for 40 S&W as well as 9mm. For the Ruger only 45 Colt loading I would think you could get yourself around 1000 fps with a 300 grain boolit. I do around 950 with a 310 grain using Herco and if I ever find another bottle of BE-86 I would like to work with it more. I really like the powder as it is very consistent even at lower pressures, velocities are single digit SD in the 45 acp. This is a clean powder, lower smoke and has a flash suppressant another reason I use it for self defense loads.

[Outpost75]

Has anybody tried it in rifle plainbase, gallery type loads, say 150-200-grain, without gascheck in .303 Brit., 7.62x54R or .30-'06?

What is the particle size like? Will it run through a Dillon or Star machine in .45 ACP? What charge are you running to make Major with 200 grain H&G68 in .45 ACP?

[runfiverun]

it's a fine grained flattened powder much like 231.
it'll meter in a Dillon like 231 or 2400.

I'm going to use it as a replacement in my Dillon 550 for herco on a grain to grain comparison.
7grs under a 158gr rnfp in the 357 magnum. [nothing outlandish but plenty enough oomph to get the boolit where I need it for small game/deer and target shooting in the lever guns]

the burn rate seems to flip flop back and forth between unique and herco depending on the case size and bullet weight used.
it looks to be about perfect for the 40 S&W and such, but would be a click on the slow side for my tastes in the 45 acp.
I wouldn't hesitate to try it in a rifle cartridge if I was looking for something to replace unique with [which I usually am]

[fecmech]

In my .38 and .357 BE86 seems to track Power pistol almost exactly as to grains per fps. It measures exactly the same as PP in my CH Auto Champ bushings and looks the same. I've wondered if it was not just flash suppressed PP.

[RobS]

In my .38 and .357 BE86 seems to track Power pistol almost exactly as to grains per fps. It measures exactly the same as PP in my CH Auto Champ bushings and looks the same. I've wondered if it was not just flash suppressed PP.

This is a pretty good description of the powder.

[Bonz]

BE-86 is similar to Power Pistol but is low flash. I have used it in 380, 9mm, 40 and 45acp and definately like it a lot.

[JeffG]

I've posted some chrony data for some BE-86 testing I've done. I love the powder.

This is the 9mm data I posted..

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?273165-9mm-and-Alliant-BE-86-Chronograph-Results

For 45 Colt, I posted this...

Ruger New Vaquero 45 Colt, SS, 5.5 inch barrel
Starline Brass, Load 5
Federal LP Primer
Lee 452-255-RF, 258 gr, PB + 3% Tin
OAL 1.625, Roll crimp, not in crimp groove
85-90 degrees in sunny NC
Alliant BE-86 7.5 grain
Lube was White Label 50/50


HI = 860
LO = 809.1
AV = 838.3
ES = 50.94
SD = 13.78


1 = 836.7
2 = 836
3 = 844.4
4 = 841.9
5 = 859.3
6 = 830.3
7 = 825.7
8 = 833.3
9 = 809.1
10 = 840.9
11 = 841.7
12 = 860


These all felt really good, I think I like this load.

[bedbugbilly]

A few months back, a member had a bunch of this powder listed in the WTS/WTS section. At the time, I was thinking about buying a jug o fit from him but when I started looking for published data on it, I couldn't find much of anything. I found a lot of "I think" postings on some other sites but not much else. Is there mor published data available on this or is it still hit and miss?

[Outpost75]

Alliant has data on their web site: http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=38

.38 Special
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?page=/reloaders/powderlist.aspx&type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=26
.38 Special +P
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=27
.40 S&W
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=29
.44 Magnum
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=33
.45 ACP
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=35
.45 ACP +P
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=183
.45 Colt
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/powderlist.aspx?type=1&powderid=38&cartridge=36

The .44 Magnum velocities track close to what I used to get with 11 grains of Herco back when I used it.

[6.5marinediesel]

I might be a little late on this post. I'v been using BE-86 for a little while now. 9mm .38 AND .45 I have notice that in 9mm mostly, the lighter the load (starting load) the least accurate it was. when I bumped up closer to max my groups got tighter. even at distance. 124 grain x-treme bullet with 5.8 BE-86 have become my favorite and most accurate pistol load iv got. Wish I had a chronograph but the felt recoil is that of a defense round.

[harley45]

I've had good luck with it in 10MM and 9MM I like the way it meters in my Hornady measure

[rsrocket1]

Are you fellas finding BE-86 in the local gun stores? I haven't seen the stuff at all out here behind the cannabis curtain in Kommiefornistan. The only Alliant pistol powders I've seen in the past 2 years have been Red Dot, and 1# bottles of Unique and about a year ago, a couple of 1# bottles of Bullseye. Lots of slow rifle powders gathering dust as well as VV powders at about $35/#.

[dragon813gt]

It was readily available for months on end. One of the few pistol powders you could get. Now that others are available BE-86 has tapered off but it's still on the shelf. They just aren't getting the quantity they used to.

[Chev. William]

Here is Alliant's answer to my inquiry:
"RE: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form
Date: May 11, 2016 10:19 AM

William,
Alliant has no tested load data for the 25 Auto using the BE-86 propellant.
Thanks,
Shoot Straight
DuaneVB
CCI/Speer/Alliant
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID"

So it seems I, and other Experimenters, are in "Uncharted Territory" to use of BE-86 propellant.
I have a one lb. canister of BE-86 to experiment with IF i can find usable guidelines for its use in these small diameter cases. My Latest Update of "QuickLOAD" Software is dated 'Jan 2016' and did not include BE-86 in it list of propellants.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[CHeatermk3]

In stock at powder valley 1's and 8's.

[Mk42gunner]

BE-86 is the powder covered in Handloader No 302's Propellant Profiles. I haven't read the article yet, just saw it while thumbing through the magazine.

Robert

[Chev. William]

I Read the Article and the one on possible .25 Magnum cartridges.
My Experiments are in a similar vein.
I have a Ruger "Convertible Single Six that was .22 Cal" converted to 8 shot cylinders and Center Fire use.
My FIRST cylinder has been reworked from .22-MAG to .25 ACP so I can develop some baseline data from its 10-5/8" Barrel (made from a Lothar Walther .25 ACP/6.35 Browning Cr-Mo Pistol Barrel Blank with a 1:9.8" Twist and 6 grove Rifling.
I hope to try some bullets heavier than 50 grain in this cartridge as well as "Mildcat" variations in case lengths of 1.055", 1.125", ~1.250" in this and subsequent reworked Cylinders (I now own four of the 8 shot .22-MAG Replacement cylinders).

What is Worrying me is the Unknown BE-86 performance in Small Charges, in the one to Three Grain range, in these small volume (6.7 grains of H2O for the .25ACP) Cases. Since the .25ACP is a semi-rimmed Cartridge, I at least don't need to worry about head space problems with Crimping my bullets. but I do need to 'worry' about the Cylinder "fore and aft' movements upon firing and its effects on 'head Space' and Primer cup 'movement'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I received an email reply; and here is Alliant's reply to my Queries:

"Subject: RE: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form Date: May 18, 2016 10:13 AM
William,
We are not aware of any of the issues you are bringing up with the BE-86.
The next time we do some testing of this powder, we will look into testing it for the 25 Auto.
Thanks,
Shoot Straight
DuaneVB
CCI/Speer/Alliant
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: chevwilliam@earthlink.net [mailto:chevwilliam@earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:29 AM
To: Alliant Reloading
Subject: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form

William J. Stewart ETC USN Retired
chevwilliam@earthlink.net
8376 De Garmo Avenue
Sun Valley California 91352-3586 USA

Dear Sirs:
RE: BE-86 Use and Characteristics.

I am interested in this propellant for use in small charge weight applications in
the Range of 0.5 grains to 5.0 grains.

My Questions:
1. Does BE-86 exhibit any small charge combustion instability problems?

2. Does BE-86 exhibit any Ignition problems in small charge Weight use?

3. Does BE-86 exhibit any low charge volume to case powder chamber volume ratio
instability such as demonstrated by "H110" and "W296" propellants?

4. Is there Any Lower limit of Charge weight or Volume of charge for BE-86
indicated by your testing to date?

5. Is Alliant planning to test this powder for use in .25 ACP size range Cartridges?

My Intended use is in .25 ACP and a series of "Mildcat" longer cases based upon
reduced (to .276" outside) diameter .22 Hornet or 5.7x28mm parent cases in lengths
including 1.055", 1.125", and 1.250" among others.

Regards,
William J. Stewart ETC USN Retired
818-767-8082

Handgun -
Firearm Make/Model: Ruger "Single Six"
Cartridge: .25 ACP /6.35 Browning and similar "mildcat" designs
Bullet Brand and Style: Various FMJ-RN of .250"-.252" dia.
Bullet Weight (Grains): 50 Grain, 65 grain, and others
Primer: Various Small Pistol
Powder: Alliant Bullseye or BE-86, Bullseye, Unique and Similar."

It seems they WILL be Testing for the .25ACP in the future and may test for my concerns.
Now to await their Testing - - patiently.
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Memorial Day I "puttered" and Loaded up ten .25ACP cases with 1.3 grains of BE-86 Behind 50 grain "Ranch Dog" Tumble lube Cast Lead bullets (From Carolina Cast Bullets) and WSP primers. Case length is .605" and Overall loaded Length is .900". This is a Compressed Load as the Charge settled to about 1/8" below the Mouth of the Case and the bullet seated slightly deeper than that.

Now I need to Get to the Range and Try them in my Ruger Custom 8 shot 10-5/8" barreled Revolver.
I am guessing around 900fps to 1000fps out of this length barrel. A listed MAXIMUM charge of Bullseye is 1.4 grains and yields around 800fps out of a 2" barrel.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

NOTE: Charge Weight needs to be re-verified as it formed a slightly compressed charge in PPU cases that measured .620" after firing and resizing. Chev. William

[fecmech]

I'd be interested to see your results

[Chev. William]

Here is my Report I posted on "Ammoguide Interactive":
"On BE-86 potential uses:
I have loaded and Fired two recipes for BE-86 in .25ACP cartridges using my Custom Converted Ruger "Convertible Single Eight" Revolver in .25ACP.

First recipe is {1.3 grains}-CORRECTED To 3.1 Grains, see PS at Bottom - of BE-86 behind a 52 grain "Ranch Dog" RFN Bullet sized to .251",Tumble lubed before sizing, using PPU Brass and WSP primers. This IS a Slightly "Compressed Load and was loaded to an OAL of .900".

Fired sixteen rounds with one Failed to Fire (light FP Strike Indication) with no Problems. Noted Soot on outside mouth of case after firing and NO Flattening of Primer in Pocket (they still had the as-inserted radius edge present and edge of primer FP indent was rounded slightly.
Recoil was more than Factory Loaded .25ACP.
Muzzle Blast was slightly stronger than Factory Loaded 25ACP, but no "Crack" heard with Ear protection Muffs.
This is a slightly compressed Load as the Powder came to about 1/8" below mouth of case and bullet was seated to ~.166" depth (for a .900" OAL)

Second Recipe is {1.2 grains} - CORRECTED To 3.0 Grains, see PS at Bottom of BE-86 behind "Hunters Supply" 63 grain RFN bullet,tumble Lubed and sized to.251" diameter, in PPU cases with WSP Primers and Again Loaded To .900" OAL. This is also a Compressed Charge load due to added length of the 63 grain bullet.

Fired Five of this Recipe (all I Brought) with NO Issues.
Primers were still Rounded at Edge and slight Radius at FP Indent, Case mouths showed some Soot on outside surface.
Recoil is more Pronounced (muzzle rise was about Twice Target paper height of a "25 Yard Target").
Muzzle Blast is more Pronounced again, similar to a weak .22WMR. I was using Ear muffs as Hearing Protection and a large caliber 'Glock' being fired about 10 feet to my Left was noticeably a Stronger and Sharper report.

In both recipes accuracy is reduced by my poor Grip and lack of Practice with this long barreled Revolver, patterning about 3 to 4 inches diameter on the Target, slightly to the Left of Point of Aim. Fired on the Pistol Range at "Angeles Shooting Ranges" with my Elbows resting on the Bench and seated upon a Stool for almost all shooting. NO obvious Stringing, neither Horizontal nor Vertical, in the patterns. I fired 50 rounds of Fioncci Factory .25ACP for Practice at the lower of two Targets and got the Same Pattern.

NOTE: the Fioncci Cases have a raised Circumferential 'burr' and NO Soot on the outside. Examination of an unfired round found the "Burr" is present as Loaded, so must be a manufacturing artifact of their Process. The "Burr" is about .020 down from the Mouth and stands about .005" high.

Best Regards,
Chev. William"

NOTE: I do not have Access to either Velocity or Pressure Instrumentation at this Time. Chev. William


PS: Charge weights Corrected to reflect error found with my powder scale after Rechecking charge weights vs volumes again. for some reason it developed a Negative Offset to measured weights. Chev. William
PPS: The charges I reported will need others to verify them to be considered proven. One Experimenter without Quality Instrumentation is only ONE DATA POINT in an area that 'Screams' for multiple Testers and reports. We need to see if the Data is Repeatable by others. Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Continuing to work with my Beam type Powder Scale but have not yet found the cause of the Negative Offset to weights measured. it is consistent and repeatable and I decided to continue using it for the time being, just Rechecking the "Zero" more Often.

It is almost like the "pan" has reduced in weight by the amount of the "offset" but I cannot see any way for that to have happened. 1.8 grains of change is quite apparent once you know it is present but no changes to the Scale's parts seem visible. I did perform a thorough cleaning of the Scale with no change in results.

Chev. William

[Old Two Wars]

Finally got a 8:Fire::Fire:lb jug of it to add to my stock LGS has some primers so I'll get a chance to load 38s 357s 45 acps and 45 colts thanks for the overviews of it I'll let ya know how they work in pistols.

[TribunusSanGeorgii]

Has anybody tried it in rifle plainbase, gallery type loads, say 150-200-grain, without gascheck in .303 Brit., 7.62x54R or .30-'06?

What is the particle size like? Will it run through a Dillon or Star machine in .45 ACP? What charge are you running to make Major with 200 grain H&G68 in .45 ACP?

Reply to an old question!

I use BE86 in 7.62x54r with a plain base lee 312160. I dont have my notes in front of me, but I'm pretty sure it was 7gr; whatever the recommended charge of Bullseye was in "The Load" article.

[Hi-Speed]

BE-86 is a good replacement for Unique in 38 Spl +P and 357 Mag (mid to upper mid range loads) with cast bullets. My “new” standard 38 Spl +P uses 4.8 grs BE-86 and 158 gr cast SWC (approx 925 fps, 5 inch S&W HD) statistically the same as what the Winchester 38 Spl +P LSWCHP chronographs in same revolver. 7.0 grs BE-86 with same bullet works great in 357 Magnum cases in my Ruger Blackhawk.

Read and follow published load data before loading any cartridge. My data are provided for informational purposes only.