1891 Argentine barrel lengths?

[dualsport]

What were the factory barrel lengths produced by Lowe? I'm getting one that is about 24" and appears to be issue. The stock has been bubba'd a little. The matching bolt is bent and a little swept back. Also appears as issued. Thanks. PS I've seen 29" and (I think) 18" but not 24". A Sears rework?

[vzerone]

I believe the rifle barrel length is in the neighborhood of 29.13 inches and the carbines are 17.6 inches. It sounds like the rifle you speak of has been altered. The bolt sounds altered too.

[troyboy]

Can you post some pictures. I've got one of those reworks with the sorta bent swept back bolt. Curious if they are the same

[leadman]

The rifles had 740mm (29") barrels and a straight bolt handle. There were factory carbines made in 2 variations if I remember what I read in my book. There was also a report of some rifles with a 700mm barrel. Unknown if this order was ever filled.

I had some old American Rifleman magazines back to the 1930s that showed ads in the 1960s for Argentine 1891 Mausers that a commercial company had "sporterized". Also many Bubba jobs out there. My first 1891 was a commercial job.

Post some good pictures and the serial number (PM to me if you want) and I will try to identify it.

I have the book: Argentine Mauser Rifles 1871- 1959.

[vzerone]

They actually named three carbines: The Engineers carbine and it had bayonet lugs. Then there was the Cavalry carbine without bayonet lugs. They issued the third to the police thus named the Police carbine, also no bayonet lugs and it was the same as the Cavalry model. The carbines did have turned down bolt handles.

[dualsport]

Thanks to all for the help. I have not learned how to post a picture so that's out. I'll look up the GunBroker #s, maybe the pics are still there. EDIT: To see the pics on GunBroker look at #527412582

[MtGun44]

Does not look stock to me. I think you have a nicely done cut down rifle. Frt sight is
soldered, heat it up, knock off, cut bbl, turn down and then resolder the front sight
back on, but without the factory spigot sticking out past the front sight about 1/2"

Cut off the stock just ahead of the spring on the second band.

[Scharfschuetze]

I used to spend some time looking at adds like this when growing up. It was the heyday of surplus firearms and you could order them directly by mail.

Your rifle may have come from Montgomery Ward. They and Sears both had lots of surplus firearms in the 50s and the 60s as well as firearms under their own brand's name. You can see by the two adds below and the photo of your rifle how your infantry rifle came to be a sporter and thus your barrel length of 24 inches.

[dualsport]

Thankyou! I think you guys have nailed it. I have searched and not found the post listing all the '91 serial numbers. Mine is a DWM #U05xx. Looks a lot like that picture of a "Mannlicher Carbine" with some wood missing. Being California we now have to wait 10 days so I haven't got it home yet. Can't wait to shoot it.

[Ken77539]

I have an 1891 Mauser from Lowe. Pulled it out and measuring from the threaded base of the barrel to the muzzle - it's just over 29" (best I can measure without a tear-down). Mine too was butchered when I acquired it about 40 years ago, the stock being the worst of all. In addition to the fore end being bobbed, it was stained with a butt-ugly black ebony stain that I thought I'd never get out. Mine is also sans the hand-guard over the barrel. The only redeeming quality so to speak is that all the numbers match. The bolt was un-touched and when closed, stands nearly perpendicular to the stock. While I haven't researched this gun too much, and by no means call myself an aficionado on the subject, I have been told that many of the the bolts were turned down for "sporters" so that they would clear a mounted scope. Don't know if this is true or not, but it does sound logical. Hope this helps some.


156549

156550

[Scharfschuetze]

Yes, the infantry rifles had straight bolt handles, and the carbines were turned down as they came from DWM and Loewe. During the sporterizing process, the bolts were turned down on the infantry rifles and the stocks chopped and the barrels cut down.

[kywoodwrkr]

Williams gun sight company used to sell a book/manual to 'refine' a military rifle, and in it, the 1891 barrel was often cut at the front band(bayonet lug) and made to look almost like the carbine version. The lug was ground off as I remember.
Currently have three carbines, a '91 and two later(can't remember year[CRS]). '08/'09?
versions.
Full length '91 was the first rifle, I ever bought by myself. Way back before all the correctness of today.
J. C. Penney and $17.95 I believe.
Thanks for the memory jog!

[leadman]

Your rifle was part of the 16,000 order for 1900. It was common for the bolt handle to get bent down like your. This is not going to allow the bolt to clear a scope if you drill and tap the receiver.
Too bad the Dutchman quit making the scout scope mounts. I was fortunate to get one before he quit.
I have been looking at the Sun Optics scout scope mount for my 96 Swedish Mauser and checking it to see if it will also fit one of my 91s.

Your rifle looks clean and as long as the bore is good it will be a great shooter. The leade ahead of the chamber is pretty long in these so make sure you try to fill it with the boolit. Important on these to slug the barrel and also do a separate slug of the throat. NOE has a copy of the Lyman 314299 that drops .316" boolits if you need a large diameter.

[Scharfschuetze]

The leade ahead of the chamber is pretty long in these so make sure you try to fill it with the boolit.

Quite true. The Lyman or NOE 314299 moulds are a pretty good fit. They'll go into pretty small groups if all else fits. Photo in a post above is 10 shots and this one is 5 shots at 50 yards. Groups open up slightly at range, but will easily stay within 2 MOA and hold the 10 ring on the NRA offhand and RF target at 200 yards.

[dualsport]

The TV show "The American Rifleman" recently had a segment on the 91 Argies. Very nice guns. In the episode they showed two guns, one obviously a full length infantry rifle. The other was shorter but definitely not a carbine. I think they produced a version called a 'short rifle' with a 24" barrel from the factory. I'm guessing at this point. I need to know where I can get a copy of that '91 book. Amazon? Who's the author? I get my two new beauties home next Tuesday. 10 day wait here. I'll find a kid to show me how to post pictures. The other one I got is still 29" but has a turned down bolt, Weaver scope bases, and "excellent" bore. Maybe a contender for some cast boolit matches.

[Blackknight]

S&K makes a low scout mount and it is a good one. The countersunk screw that comes with it is too long but can be cut off off to fit. The NOE 316299 bullet is a good fit for most model 91 rifles and will shoot out to the rams at 550 yrds (or so), with 16 grs. of of SR 4759. That load goes sub sonic at about 300 yrds so I want to increase the powder charge as my favourite target is the turkeys at 410 yrds. The nice thing about the 16 gr. load is you can see the impact of the bullet and that is a big plus.

[Scharfschuetze]

Here's a good book for general coverage of Mauser military rifles.

[Dutchman]

Here's a good book for general coverage of Mauser military rifles.

The 4th edition is far superior and about twice as thick.


Dutch (who happens to be a listed contributor of the 4th edition)

[leadman]

The book I bought off Amazon is: Argentine Mauser Rifles 1871-1959 by Colin Webster. IIRC is cost me about $70. There are many copies of the original documents but in Spanish so I have to go by what the author wrote.

[Scharfschuetze]

The 4th edition is far superior and about twice as thick.

A fifth edition was published in 2011. Another good book on Mausers as far as the big picture goes, is Olsen's book on the Mauser. It's dated now, but it is still an enjoyable and useful book.

[Frank46]

Best thing about cast boolits in mil surp rifles is that if not too noisey you can hear that boolit hitting the target backer. Range officer at a local range kept hearing the thwack of the bullet. Zeroed on me when I was shooting a Finn model 27 in 7.62x54r with the Ly 314299. He actually called a halt to the shooting so's he could hear it. Said it was the funniest thing he had ever heard. Frank

[leadman]

I really like that sound, especially when I just pulled the trigger with a game animal in my sights! LOL.