Correct bayonet for 1942 Remington 1903 Springfield rifle.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I have a beautiful version of the above rifle and I was given a bayonet when I bought the rifle. I have since been told that it is not the correct bayonet for the rifle (even though it fits). The previous owner mentioned that the bayonet was with the rifle when he bought it. I had paid for the rifle, he went inside and wrote a reciept while I waited in his garage with the rifle and he returned with the reciept and the bayonet, so it was an unexpected bonus.

Which is the correct bayonet and how can I identify it?

[bob208]

the correct would be a blade 16" long. some times later those blades were cut to 10" rather crudely for the a3 and m1.. that same bayonet would fit on a m1 and even a krag rifle. and the bayonet for the m1 and the krag would fit the 03.

[Dutchman]

This is a U.S. Model 1905 bayonet made in 1918 and refurbished for WW2. The scabbard is correct
for WW2, the earlier scabbards were canvas with a leather tip.


http://media.fotki.com/1_p,dtsdqbbbqgrtgwxwfqbfsgtwfb,vi/grsdgkwqqxgssbsrbgk/2/28344/2974527/bb12-vi.jpg

[Bigslug]

You might find this helpful: http://www.arms2armor.com/Bayonets/bayonets.htm#US

I broke out Scott Duff's Garand book just now - the ten-inch Garand blades (designation M1 bayonet)were not adopted as standard until February of '43, with production starting in April. The approval to cut down the longer M1905 bayonets happened in the summer of '43 and started in September.

The M3 plastic scabbards for the 1905 were approved in early September of '41 - the decision to make them being based on deteriorated condition of a lot of the older types on hand. Production on them started slowly in January '42 with only a couple thousand, peaked in July with just shy of 350,000 and ended in February '43 with just over three million of them having gone out the door. The M3 was the new standard; the canvas M1910 as "substitute standard" and the leather M1905 as "limited standard".

I'm not a pointy-stabby expert, but I'm thinking there are a few options that collectors could argue about being "correct". I think the attitude in 1942 - especially EARLY '42 - was that anything that fit on the rifle you could stab a Nazi or Jap with was "correct", and any scabbard you could fit it into was "good enough". Other than being able to look sufficiently uniform while on parade, and not have consistency problems with training or equipment issue, I doubt ANYONE at the time thought or cared much about the differences when it came to boxing them up and shipping them out.

[Scharfschuetze]

Which is the correct bayonet and how can I identify it?

Keep in mind that the 1903A3 was issued in WWII and thus any of the original or cut down 1905 Springfield bayonets will be correct on the rifle. I don't think that Ordnance officers particularly cared what version of the Springfield or M1 Garand bayonet went on it. Issue was on a unit by unit basis (for uniformity of training) so take your pick and you'll be good to go. As 1903A3 rifles were usually used by those guys in the rear with the gear, it probably wasn't a high priority to outfit the Army support units all that uniformly across several theaters of war.

I think the only US rifles that had a uniformly issued bayonet in WWII were the M1 Carbine (M4 Bayonet) and the US 1917 Rifle (M1917 Bayonet). Interestingly, the M1917 Bayonet was also used on the M1897 and M12 Winchester shotguns when fitted with hand guards and bayonet lugs.

This may help you ID the manufacturer of your bayonet.

[nicholst55]

Keep in mind that the 1903A3 was issued in WWII and thus any of the original or cut down 1905 Springfield bayonets will be correct on the rifle. I don't think that Ordnance officers particularly cared what version of the Springfield or M1 Garand bayonet went on it. Issue was on a unit by unit basis (for uniformity of training) so take your pick and you'll be good to go. As 1903A3 rifles were usually used by those guys in the rear with the gear, it probably wasn't a high priority to outfit the Army support units all that uniformly across several theaters of war.

I think the only US rifles that had a uniformly issued bayonet in WWII were the M1 Carbine (M4 Bayonet) and the US 1917 Rifle (M1917 Bayonet). Interestingly, the M1917 Bayonet was also used on the M1897 and M12 Winchester shotguns when fitted with hand guards and bayonet lugs.

This may help you ID the manufacturer of your bayonet.

The M1917 bayonet was also used on the Winchester M1200 shotgun, and probably others, as well.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The rifle is not an 03A3, but in the original 1903 format with teenager ready sight. Thanks for the onfo.

[Scharfschuetze]

The M1917 bayonet was also used on the Winchester M1200 shotgun, and probably others, as well.

Quite correct. I believe that the perforated metal handguard/bayonet lug on the M1200 was actually the same one as used in the older shotguns. We had a few of the M1200 shotguns at Fort Bragg in the early 70s. The handguard unit used a cross bolt to screw on at the muzzle and would thus fit many shotguns as long as the barrel diameter was similar.



The rifle is not an 03A3, but in the original 1903 format with teenager ready sight. Thanks for the onfo.

I've always wanted one of those Remington 1903 rifles for the collection. The first iteration was a perfect copy of the 1903 as made by SA and RIA. The second iteration had several cost cutting steps taken of which a few found their way into the later 1903A3.

[captain-03]

All you ever wanted to know about US Bayonets!!

http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/bayonet_points.htm

[Four Fingers of Death]

Mine is an earlier 1942 version it seems, all forged parts, just like the originals.

[Scharfschuetze]

You can tell easily if it is a first or second iteration Remington 1903 by looking at the rear sight base and comparing it to a Springfield or Rock Island 1903. The first version will have been milled out to some extent on each side to lighten the rifle a bit. It looks like a very long oval on each side of the sight base. The second version will not have these milled off areas and you may also see stamped steel parts in this later version. It's an easy and fast way to make the determination.

Some collectors call these pre 1903A3 rifles 1903 Modified, but I'm not sure if the US Government or Ordnance Corps ever made that distinction.

I believe these are the rarest of the 1903 variants. Lucky you! I've looked at a few over the years, but either Buba had done something stupid to them or they were so worn that they were not worth the asking price.

[Bigslug]

Mine is an earlier 1942 version it seems, all forged parts, just like the originals.

In that case, I would see no "violations" in pairing it with an earlier-dated bayonet and a 1910 scabbard. There were somewhat over a half million bayonets in inventory before the ball was kicked. The early battles were fought with a lot of WWI leftovers. Barring further research into what units Remington was shipping guns to at the time, and where those units were getting their cutlery, or where and when in the supply stream rifles and bayonets got paired, the only assumption to make is that the rifle was kicked out the door with the hope that it would eventually run into a bayonet somewhere.