I just bought a Ruger Toklat in 454 Casull/45 C0lt

[Doc Highwall]

This is the Talo version with the 5" barrel and comes with an extra set of sights and scope rings.
I measured the cylinder throats with my pin gages and they all will take a .456 minus pin but not a .457 minus.

I will be using this only in Alaska when hunting as a side arm, with a rifle as the main gun.
I looked at the loads here about the 454 and the problems with a small rifle primer pocket and loads have to be near maximum in order to not get a squib load.

I am looking at using the Hornady 300 grain XTP Mag bullet with Alliant 2400 powder, starting at 25.5 grains and working up to 27 grains in half grain increments to find out what it likes.

Because I will only be using this in Alaska I think the best thing to use will be jacketed bullets not knowing when it will be fired. I will be leaving it there so transporting it and ammo will be a one time thing, except maybe bring back empty cases.

I have to buy cases and dies for this gun along with bullets.

[DougGuy]

It all sounds good up to the XTP part. Those bullets like to shed jackets and fragment pretty badly at max velocities. I quit using them because I was finding pieces of jacket everywhere and lead fragments ruined a LOT of the meat.

44man can give you some good info on brass and primers for .454 but I would shy away from that XTP and use cast or partition bullets if you have to use jacketed. Partition hollow points are good for big game but you might need a solid nose if you run into a large bear.

It is odd the throats are that big but with that much pressure any resistance the bullet/boolit runs into is going to jack pressure upwards rather quickly.

I think I would move to H110/W296 for max loads with a heavy boolit as well. I use 2400 under heavy boolits for less than max loads where it isn't safe to download H110.

Just my 2¢ worth..

[Doc Highwall]

I would prefer a wide flat nose like the Lee bullet, but I am afraid with the ammo sitting around for a long time that the lube could give me a problem.

I will be using this like when fishing and might have to shoot a bear, so that is the first and only requirement. I have other guns like a model 29 44 mag for hunting around here in the northeast.

[Doc Highwall]

I just looked in my Sierra reloading manual and see they make a 300 grain soft nose bullet for the 454 Casull.

[williamwaco]

I would prefer a wide flat nose like the Lee bullet, but I am afraid with the ammo sitting around for a long time that the lube could give me a problem.

I will be using this like when fishing and might have to shoot a bear, so that is the first and only requirement. I have other guns like a model 29 44 mag for hunting around here in the northeast.

What kind of lube are you using?

I have around 300 rounds of cast bullets I loaded in 1972 with Lyman 50/50.
They have spent 40+ years stored in a Texas garage at temperatures between -10 AND +118 degrees.

The lube has turned much darker brown but has not leaked and the ammo still groups in one inch at 25 yards with zero misfires.

[paralaska]

I just use the xtp's for plinking and target shooting. For carry, I want a wide meplat hard cast lead with gas check in the 300 to 360 grn range, and w296/h110. The xtp's may not pentrate that big brown bear . . .

[paul h]

Another vote for a 330-360 gr cast over a healthy dose of H-110/W-296.

[dkf]

I'll agree with a heavy WFN or LFN cast bullet. But if you don't want to use cast Barnes has a 325gr copper solid available that will stay together and penetrate at max velocities. You never know if you have to deal with one of those big brown hairy things and need the penetration.

[Doc Highwall]

Another vote for a 330-360 gr cast over a healthy dose of H-110/W-296.

Actually this is my first choice but I wounder what lube would be the best for long term storage. This gun will have a load made up for it and then it will find a permanent home in Alaska. I don't want to go through the trouble of going through the airport each time if you know what I mean.

I have measured the throats on the cylinder and they measure .456 minus, just wondering what is the largest size bullet that the case and cylinder will allow to chamber?

I am looking at buying Starline brass for this and trying to decide who's dies would be the best.

[RobS]

If you are not going to cast your own I would use a 335 grain or 360 grain hard cast boolit from Cast Performance. http://www.grizzlycartridge.com/index.php?app=ecom&ns=catshow&ref=cp45cal .452 wouldn't be my first choice for diameter considering your large throat diameters and the reason for a GC design. It will be more difficult to find .454 or so that are commercial cast. If you have an appropriate sizer die you could possibly size down a Cast Performance .458 bullet.

If you haven't shot a full snort 454 Casull load then you should first before you go and load up a bunch of them. They are not any fun to shoot and if you can't make a decent followup shot then you may need to load a little down.

[High Desert Hunter]

The Sierra 300gr JSP are very hard, most I have recovered literally look like I could load them again, it has a very hard core. I carried a Super Redhawk 454 in Alaska when they first came out, I shot a lot of cast, but I also loaded and shot a ton of the Speer 300gr plated bullets, all loaded to a grain below max with H100 or 296, they expand nicely, I also used the Freedom Arms 300gr JSP, the Sierra bullet seems to be a clone of their bullet. I never once had a squib load in several thousands of rounds fired, I always used the magnum primers as that is what Freedom Arms called for. Mine was accurate to nth degree, and with 330 to 360 grain bullets, I rarely recovered one from dirt or flesh. The RCBS 45-270SAA bullet was my main plinking bullet, and my main hunting bullet was a 335gr WFNGC bullet from an LBT mold cast by the Bullshop when he was still in Delta Junction.

[Doc Highwall]

Here are three moulds I am considering to shoot for cast bullets, for a jacketed bullet I really want a soft nose over a hollow point if I can find one that will work.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360C-D.png

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360E-D.png

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360G-D.png

[paul h]

I've used LBT blue lube and have 480 ammo I loaded at least 5 if not closer to 10 years ago that shot fine. Just store them bullet down in your ammo cases and no problem with lube migration. Ammo would have be stored in a very hot area to worry about oil creeping out of the lube and migrating into the powder.

[DougGuy]

Here are three moulds I am considering to shoot for cast bullets, for a jacketed bullet I really want a soft nose over a hollow point if I can find one that will work.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360C-D.png

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360E-D.png



I like either one of those, the other one has a longer nose and less bearing surface, I couldn't fling these LFNs hard enough out of my Vaquero to get them to stabilize.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Just a thought that crossed my mind, if you still wanted a jacket or solid, there is Lehigh Defense. Now it appears the .452's might be a compromise with accuracy being undersize for your Toklat but they do have bullets for .458 Socom, big nasty heavy buggers. I would be willing to bet you could run them through a sizer just fine and the Extreme Penetrator bullet is no joke at 300grs. and would probably do a number on a mean ole griz. Copper solid and nothing to clog, fail to open/expand and it will keep all its weight. I don't know it the length would be ok in a .454 though. Just a thought. They do have other slug designs for a .458 but I would be more interested in punching deep holes or pass-throughs and the XP bullet has a PhD in that department.

[DougGuy]

Hehe I got a lathe and Lowe's has copper grounding rods, we could have solids in no time!

[Doc Highwall]

I am going to measure the actual chamber diameters and see what size a .452 bullet will allow for case wall thickness. I have seen measurements where the brass thickness at the case mouth measures .0123", so if I round that up to .0125" per side = .025" plus a .452" bullet = .477" loaded cartridge dimension. How much over .477" the cylinder chambers measure would be my clearance. I would like .001" as an absolute minimum.

Right now I have to get an actual measurement of all the chambers and load for the smallest. I know what I am doing tomorrow.

[High Desert Hunter]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=539&osCsid=ketsp5a6vkb6vjlmgcbv270hj0

Been having good luck with this one as well! I do have a Mountain Molds 325gr WFNGC that has proven accurate in both the FA and my Bisley 45 Colt.

[paralaska]

I cast my own with a Lee mold, that come out at 311gr gas checked. But I agree with RobS , the cast performance 335 or 360 grainers are pretty good bullets . . .

[Doc Highwall]

I just measured the cylinder chambers on the Toklat, and they will all take a .480" minus pin, and a .481" minus only goes half way in all 6 chambers.

So if I take .479 as my largest loaded round dimension and minus .0125" wall thickness x 2= .025" lets me load a .454" bullet in the case.

This would be a maximum bullet diameter of .454" so I am thinking of buying a .453" sizer die and if needed I could lap/polish it to .454", of course this is after I get some brass in my grubby hands and get a real neck wall thickness of the brass.

[Doc Highwall]

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=539&osCsid=ketsp5a6vkb6vjlmgcbv270hj0

Been having good luck with this one as well! I do have a Mountain Molds 325gr WFNGC that has proven accurate in both the FA and my Bisley 45 Colt.

Thanks for posting this I will now look to see what Al has for moulds.

[High Desert Hunter]

You're very welcome! Such a wonderful caliber.

[RobS]

IIRC NOE's 350 grainer is a WFN design with two crimp grooves. I've thought about it a time or two but just never did pull the plug on it.

[High Desert Hunter]

It does have two crimp grooves.156394

[RobS]

That does look like a nice up close and personal design!

[High Desert Hunter]

I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer or caribou with the hollow point version, still weighs 340 grains.

[Doc Highwall]

I would want it in a solid nose, not a hollow point for bear.

[CLAYPOOL]

I couldn't find those Sierra's on the web site...?

[Doc Highwall]

Sierra's number for the .4515" diameter 300 grain bullet is #8830.

[lar45]

Have you thought about the punch bullets? The only down side I see is they are $2.50 ea. But it would be an option if you didn't want to go with a cast bullet.
http://www.beltmountain.com/punch.htm

[High Desert Hunter]

The pins are reversible, the solid version weighs 355.

[Mytmousemalibu]

Hehe I got a lathe and Lowe's has copper grounding rods, we could have solids in no time!

When I finally get myself a lathe, I intend on parting off some copper solids :bigsmyl2:
Probably not Lehigh fancy but it is something I'd like to dabble with. Why not!

[44man]

Groove has not been said here. WHAT IS GROOVE? You have a close range carry and extreme accuracy is not needed anyway. Fit to groove or a tad over and forget all the pin gauges and chamber measurements.
Throat measurements or a super fit to them is far over rated.

[Doc Highwall]

Groove has not been said here. WHAT IS GROOVE? You have a close range carry and extreme accuracy is not needed anyway. Fit to groove or a tad over and forget all the pin gauges and chamber measurements.
Throat measurements or a super fit to them is far over rated.

That is going to be the next thing I am going to do.

[44man]

I think you will be happy. I have shot many revolvers with large throats and all shot good. Not so if they were smaller then groove.
If groove is .452", go .453" and maybe .454" but I don't see where you need larger. You might be surprised.

[Doc Highwall]

44Man, that is what I am planning to do, size the bullet .001"-.002" over groove diameter.

[Sagebrush7]

Don't buy to many ,most are plated steel!


Hehe I got a lathe and Lowe's has copper grounding rods, we could have solids in no time!

[44man]

Don't buy to many ,most are plated steel!
YES, that is true. darn good call. Pure copper is hard to find and I have a scrap chunk I fixed starters with by making new contacts that burned out. I saved thousands over the years but I never had a pure copper rod. I have some brass rod.
Doug, take a magnet to the store.

[Doc Highwall]

I just slugged the barrel using a 545 grain Creedmore bullet cast 30:1 alloy as I had some cast up, and the barrel slugs .4530" on the money.

[44man]

I just slugged the barrel using a 545 grain Creedmore bullet cast 30:1 alloy as I had some cast up, and the barrel slugs .4530" on the money.
Good, go with that to .454" and a tad more will not hurt. Trouble is a mold for you.

[Doc Highwall]

I ordered this in a four cavity today from Al.

http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=532

[RobS]

That will do. I'll be interested in how it does for you.

[High Desert Hunter]

Easy to cast, and I have been having good luck with mine.

[Doc Highwall]

Easy to cast, and I have been having good luck with mine.

What alloy did you use and what was the diameter that the bullets out of the mould?

[High Desert Hunter]

I am using straight wheel weights and they are dropping at .454, I am sizing to .452, get the nose punch if you are going to cast the HPs, as they need the support.

[Ruger45Bisley]

The XTP Mag is a tough bullet and probably best used in longer barreled 454's where you can really push them, like the BFR. In my Toklat I've found the regular 300gr XTP to be great running at around 1450 fps, expands well and penetrates deep. Love my Toklat, most accurate gun I've shot, and that's a lot of guns.

[44man]

Be careful with jacketed if you push velocity. The .357 max and the .454 were known to shoot the cores out of weak bullets if driven. Cast will not be a problem.

[robsguns]

Those copper grounding rods from Lowes are probably copper plated, not solid copper, better check. :)

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I recently shot some cast bullets loads in .44 mag that I loaded 20+ years ago. They have been stored in various environments that included really hot garages in the desert. They all went bang just fine. The worry about the bullet lube melting and contaminating the powder is maybe over emphasized. I hope that anyone that has had powder contamination from melted bullet lube chimes in. I want to know the specifics. In cooler climates, I doubt it would be a problem at all.

If I were in your shoes, I would load a cast bullet of not less than clip-on-WW with a large meplat. The WFN is great. For .44 mag, I am using the Lee 310 gr. There is no substitute for seeing what your revolver likes.

As for your concern of the small rifle primer, you might want to consider full bore .45 Colt loads for Ruger full size revolvers. They ain't wimpy.

[murf205]

Those copper grounding rods from Lowes are probably copper plated, not solid copper, better check. :)

The ones I used for the past 25 yrs were/are copper plated steel. They went to steel for cheapness and because they get driven with jack hammers whenever possible and don't bend as easily as pure copper. When I was an apprentice long ago, I was the jackhammer.