Use straight wall powder actuated loads inside breech plug

[Johnnycash635]

Ok the question here is has anyone ever chambered a breech plug to accept tool loads for shooting and not use any powder other than the tool load? Am considering trying this with a Thompson center .50

[EDG]

You might look at the M79 grenade launcher grenades.
They have a high pressure and low pressure chambers inside the grenade case.

What you are proposing is the high pressure tool cartridge venting in to a much larger bore.

You might want to find out the pressure and gas volume produced by the cartridges and then do some calculations otherwise you are headed down a trail
that might be dangeous.

[Johnnycash635]

I currently fire 130gr. 9mm with them and get great velocity and accuracy. I was just wondering if any one has tried to fire the loads in a bp rifle with a good strong barrel. Considering purchasing a Thompson center .50 for the trial.

[BrentD]

What is a tool load? Why would you want to do this, and what does it do that a good blackpowder load can't.

And where do you do you shooting? I don't want to be anywhere nearby when you try this.

BTW, barrel strength is NOT the reason to avoid smokeless in a muzzleloader if that is what you have in mind.

[bedbugbilly]

Huh???

[BrentD]

Huh???

My question exactly.


What is, "...tool loads for shooting and not use any powder other than the tool load..."

[milrifle]

Are we talking shells for concrete nail guns?

[vzerone]

You would be much better off and safer if you obtain one of the Savage smokeless powder muzzle loaders if you want to pursue this.

[montana_charlie]

I don't think this is a "black powder cartridge" subject, as Thompson Center has never made a .50 caliber gun with a breech plug that can accept fixed ammunition.

Somebody point this member to an appropriate venue for his discussion.

[vzerone]

The OP asked if anyone ever chambered a breech plug meaning modified it to take those cartridges. Maybe Special Projects would be more appropriate.

[Johnnycash635]

Yes maybe special projects would be a better place for the post. Sorry for any confusion.

[Tracy]

Some of the replies above are a prime example of the adage that the less some people understand a subject, the stronger and more loudly proclaimed is their opinion on said subject.

Personally, I think it is a very interesting idea. EDG does make a good point, though.
I would like to add that anyone who contemplates trying this should choose the gun carefully. It needs to have a fixed breech. If the hammer/striker is the only thing supporting the rear of the primer, that's not good enough.

For those whose immediate knee-jerk reaction was "he wants to use fixed, smokeless powder ammo in a ML!"; no he's not. Remember when folks started converting break action muzzleloaders from perc caps to 209 primers? He's just taking it one step further to using Ramset type loads as a primer, and then leaving out the main powder charge to expel a projo by force of the primer alone. That's called thinking outside the box, which as I am constantly being reminded, makes some people feel threatened.

[BrentD]

Okay, OK, So Bright, exactly what are the advantages of this, and why is it appropriate on the BPCR Forum?

[Johnnycash635]

The advantage of this is cost and reload time I'm talking ten bucks for 100 rounds

[Johnnycash635]

Ok for all who don't understand what a tool load is look on YouTube for ramset pellet gun and you will see

[BrentD]

Precision loaded, I'm sure. Sounds more like something for the Prepper crowd. Not BPCR.

[Johnnycash635]

May be sorry for any inconvenience. First post here just thought it might fit this forum seing how I was considering using a .50 cal bp rifle for the application.

[BrentD]

Sorry, but most folks here are interesting in precision black powder cartridge rifles. Not some sort of hacked together muzzleloaders that are neither cartridge rifles, nor blackpowder, nor precision firearms.

YOu list expense and time as the reasons for using a bunch of stuff (to put kindly) to save a few minutes and a few bucks. Neither of which will be realized if you have pay for machining modifications, and the time to do it.

But have at it if you must. It is still a solution in search of a problem so far as most of us here are concerned.

[Johnnycash635]

Ok for one these powder loads are very precise in thier loading and two I am talking cartridges if you look at my link to the pics I currently muzzleload 9mm rounds in the fashion I'm talking about and they are way more accurate than any bp I have ever used but the 9mm uses the tool loads as a primer and I am reaching velocities of 2100 fps. So try that with b.p. the advantage of this style of loading is availability.

[Lead pot]

Quite frankly I don't see why it's so important to get 2100 fps from a powder rifle. If one wants to get .458 win mag velocities from a ML rifle go with a .458 win or shoot the in-lines the way they designed them.
Doing what your talking about using a .22 tool blank behind a .50 cal sabot or ball you will still develop enough pressure to kick the hammer back. And when you start thinking from going from the green load to a red then if you feel you can push it to the purple or the heavier .32 caliber load you will be lucky to just loose an eye or worse you will be looking up at grass roots like the fellow's name your using.

[Johnnycash635]

Bolt action

[country gent]

Its going to take more than just a modified breech bolt for the cartridges. thise are rimfire the bolt will need modifications and a special firing pin made up. Most inlines are set up for caps or 209 shotshell primers and are centerfire with the appropriate style firing pin set up a flat cupped pin for caps and a pointed center fire style for 209s. the fring pin till have to be moved over to hit rim and a narrow rectangular face made to give proper strike

[Johnnycash635]

Yes I was planning on using a .22 barrel blank that is chambered and then turn it down to 5/8" thread to make a custom breech plug. Then using an old Springfield bolt the pull button type. It's going to be interesting.

[Tracy]

I agree, it will be interesting.
Don't worry about the BPCR thing. Black powder cartridge loading is about more than just long range competition with $2500+ rifles. If those guys don't like it, they are free to read a thread that is more to their interest.

[Johnnycash635]

Well like I said I'm already obtaining 2100 fps with 130gr 9 mm bullets in a custom gun I made and that's only with one brown color ramset and 2 grains of nitro powder. I put the 2 grains of powder inside a glycerine capsule for vitamin supplements and then I used superglue to glue it to the back of the bullet. Using the ramset load as a primer to discharge the glycerine capsule with the nitro powder it is extremely accurate and one hell of a bang. Cleaning of the barrel is quite easy with isopropyl alcohol. Although the barrel in my gun slides right out of the carrier with a simple Alan set screw.

[mazo kid]

I agree, it will be interesting.
Don't worry about the BPCR thing. Black powder cartridge loading is about more than just long range competition with $2500+ rifles. If those guys don't like it, they are free to read a thread that is more to their interest.
??? This IS the BLACK POWDER CARTRIDGE RIFLE forum! While I applaud the OP's ingenuity, we come here to read about BPCR info, loads, etc.; and not about breech plug modifications using smokeless powder. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Johnnycash635]

Yes thank you. Sorry this was my first thread and have already established that I may have posted in the wrong category so if your reading the thread you would know that's been established. No need for pompas *** comments. Hell if it dosent strike your interest you don't have to read it or reply so to all the rude folks GET A LIFE. Pick on your nieces and nephews or something

[Johnnycash635]

Or teach me how to delete this thread

[mazo kid]

Sorry, didn't mean to ruffle feathers! I think it will take a moderator to move/delete your post.

[dromia]

OK this threads going nowhere.

Johnnycash635 I suggest that you reflect on your attitude and language, personal attacks are not tolerated here.

Posting here is no big deal either, I am sure the OP did it in good faith and we all need to cut each other some slack.

I am locking this thread now and suggest that johnnycash635 you repost in the Special Projects forum where I am sure you will find members more welcoming to your idea.

[Johnnycash635]

Thank you