new guy-question about lead source

[dave33]

Long time lurker, first time poster. Have been loading commercial cast boolits for quite a while and thinking about trying my hand at casting. Have an almost unlimited supply of range scrap and lead splatter from the pistol bay at my gun club. Looks like this:

156199

We have sandy soil and its easy to sift the large boolit slugs from the sand in a regular sifter, and we have some steel targets hanging inside tires I can scoop the splattered lead from. The pic is about 70lbs of scrap, a little over half a 5 gal bucket, pretty clean. My question, would this make a decent cast boolit to shoot at moderate speeds in 9mm and 40. I would probably be looking at 950-1000 FPS in 9, and 850-900 FPS in 40. If all goes well would probably cast for .45 also.

I shoot competitive pistol matches, IDPA and Steel Challenge, but also NRA Action Pistol/Bianchi cup style matches where accuracy is very important. I would be coating the bullets instead of running traditional lube. Most likely with the PC from smoke here on the forum, but thats still to be determined.

Thanks for any help. I hope I have provided enough info to get a good answer. If it helps, I believe 99.9% of the lead is from pistol bullets that have flattened/deformed/exploded against steel.

[Tatume]

Welcome aboard. Yes, your source material will work very well in the application you suggest. You may want to add a little tin and antimony, but for starters you should be in fine shape. Have at it!

Take care, Tom

[6622729]

Welcome aboard. Yes, your source material will work very well in the application you suggest. You may want to add a little tin and antimony, but for starters you should be in fine shape. Have at it!

Take care, Tom
Great source. You will likely find you have to harden it up a little bit depending on how much copper jacket is in the mix. Their lead cores many times are very soft lead.

[haynk]

Looks like good material to me. When it is melted, stir well, maybe flux the material but I doubt if this is necessary. Idea is to get all the non lead material, sand, jacketed bullet fragments, etc to float on top where they can be dipped off and disposed of. I find an old table spoon works fine for the dipping and stirring.

haynk

[wv109323]

I also think you have a good supply of lead. The cast bullet lead will most likely be harder than the lead from jacketed bullets. Or lead from cast bullets should be ideal for more cast bullets. If you are going to PC then hardness will not matter if you can cast a good bullet.
You did not mention whether you cleaned the scrap lead with water or not. If so be very careful about refilling your smelting pot. Also the sand may have enough moisture to cause you trouble.
I would flux it multiple times in the smelting pot to get as much of the impurities out as possible.
A properly cast and PC bullet will be accurate enough for your usage.

[GhostHawk]

I have been shooting almost exclusively range scrap for the last 2 years, all bought here, in ingots for reasonable prices.

But, if you have access to raw range scrap jump on it. Buy a little tin/ pewter for sweating.

If there is enough of it you can recover some of your setup costs by selling a flat rate box full of ingots.
Just need to smelt it down. Resell the copper jackets for scrap.

In my experience most range lead works fine if you just don't try to push it too fast.

[BNE]

I've tested a lot of range scrap and it is typically 99% Pb and 1% Sn. Give or take a couple of tenths. If your mold fills out well, and you powder coat, them, You are probably fine.

the suggestion to add some Sn will help fill out you mold and up the hardness a little.

I tried a couple of different coatings and powder coating using the air soft BBs is definitely the easiest and cheapest way to go. It just works!

[scottfire1957]

It was bullets before, it can be bullets again. Simple as that.

[1bilmr59]

Sounds good just do it. You will love it.

[Steyr47]

I have been using range scrap for 9, 40, & 38 loads with no issues. I have not needed to add tin but am not pushing the loads fast. Clean up the jacket-scrap a bit and you will get full price for it at the recycle place--my last 5gal bucket about a yr ago was worth $1.80/lb.

[dave33]

Okay, thanks for all the replies. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting my time collecting. It is surprisingly clean considering where it came from, and letting it bounce around in the back of my truck for a few weeks seems to help settle the sand to the bottom of the bucket so that should help when it come time to smelt it down.

I appreciate the warnings about water and molten lead. I've read about this and don't want my first casting attempt to be a disaster, I believe the scrap is clean enough to not need any washing off.

Even if I have to buy some tin or antimony to help with the hardness its got to be more cost effective than buying the commercial cast bullets at the rate I have been to this point.

Guess I need to start getting some casting equipment now, I'm sure I will have plenty of questions about that in the coming days. Gonna get the holidays out of the way and get at this in January. Thanks again all.

[dondiego]

Start cruising garage sales and resale shops for a propane turkey fryer set-up and a cast iron pot. Even if it seems real clean, don't smelt in your casting pot.

[6622729]

Start cruising garage sales and resale shops for a propane turkey fryer set-up and a cast iron pot. Even if it seems real clean, don't smelt in your casting pot.

Well, it may or may not be cheaper in terms of dollars spent. It certainly doesn't pay off relative to the time spent. You have to like it as a hobby to justify the time invested. However, one HUGE advantage or benefit to casting your own is that you get to tailor the projectile to your firearm. Hardness, diameter, lube....

[SSGOldfart]

Welcome to the dark side,it's a addiction for sure, one day you'll buy a mold that looks like a very good deal,then comes lube dies lube sizer Oh yeah you still need brass and loading dies,did I mention a new Gun for that caliber.....:veryconfu....Welcome again enjoy the ride and have fun casting:bigsmyl2:

[mdi]

Most of the range scrap I've tested runs between 10 and 14 BHN, depending on how much 22 LR and jacketed bullets is in the scrap. The lead I've purchased here, from vendor-sponsors is already cleaned and in ingots, so I don't know the ratio/alloy, just BHN. For my PCed bullets I just use it as it is...

[fredj338]

Range scrap is one of the more reliable alloy sources. You at least know they will make adequate bullets, since they were once bullets. Welcome to the hobby.

[buntingmiester]

dondiego,hello sir , I'm new to casting and wonder about not smelting in your cast iron melting pot?

[DerekP Houston]

dondiego,hello sir , I'm new to casting and wonder about not smelting in your cast iron melting pot?

Smelting the raw lead and scrap in your bottom pour melting pot will lead to clogs and poor fill out. Better to clean all the lead and flux it in a separate container first, then use it in your casting pot.

[dondiego]

With a large cast iron pot on a turkey fryer you can smelt a lot more raw material at one time also. Only add the clean ingots to your casting pot.

[Stewbaby]

Watch the weight though...fish and turkey fryers (built to hold water or oil) are not built to take the weight you could put on them with lead. A leg fails and your day (month and year) could be ruined.

[jsizemore]

Are you shooting/scavenging from Buccaneer? Very fine sand there. You could put your lead splatter in your sifter/strainer and hold it against the side of your vibrating tumbler or any motorized yard tool to get more of that sand out of the mix. Of course do it outside and be aware of dust from the process. A little more tin will help with fillout and if you run up on some COWW you can add that if you feel the need for a bit more velocity/hardness.

I got most of my smelting setup from Agri-Supply. They have a Carolina Cooker that's 175,000 BTU's and 22" tall. I can put a piece of plywood on top and then stand on it so it will handle the weight of a full 10 quart dutch oven. I made a wind shield from the sheet metal surround of a hot water heater and use the bottom or top for a lid.

Good Luck.

[Rich/WIS]

You are a lucky devil, used to get range lead from our 15 and 25 yard berms, but they redid the range this year and only the 50 yard berm remains. Bet I got several tons of it before they did that (sob!). I use it as it comes in my 45 target loads, also worked fine in 9mm loaded to higher velocity as well. In a Lyman 311576 120 grain GC mold it came in about 125 grains and with GC shot fine with mouse fart loads (5-6 grains Bullseye). Mix it with type metal for harder bullets as needed for you application. Definitely smelt in a separate pot, I use a homemade turkey fryer and bottom half of a 20 pound propane tank as a pot. If you haven't done so already hit yard sales for aluminum muffin tins, a sturdy dipper and a regular and slotted spoon for cleaning during smelting. I use paraffin wax (old candles etc.) or globs of old lube to flux. Get as many muffin tins as you can (they are not durable when used with lead), it is surprising how much alloy you get and you won't have to wait for the first ingots to cool enough to reuse before emptying the pot. WARNING: Do this outside and stay out of the smoke/fumes from the melt!!!

[William Yanda]

Look-out Dave. There are a whole bunch of enablers here and it is common knowledge that there are no more aggressive evangelists than those who have been converted themselves.

[paul edward]

Dave:

It is important to use different pots for smelting than you use for casting.

[clum553946]

I was in your shoes last year. It ends up being quite an addiction! Just get good stuff out of the gate, I had to replace a lot of my first run stuff as I got better at casting. Great to have you as part of the clan!

[David2011]

I have been using range scrap for 9, 40, & 38 loads with no issues. I have not needed to add tin but am not pushing the loads fast. Clean up the jacket-scrap a bit and you will get full price for it at the recycle place--my last 5gal bucket about a yr ago was worth $1.80/lb.

Steyr, tin is a wetting agent in a molten alloy. It helps the alloy flow out and fill the sharp corners of the mold better but is not a good hardening agent. It will add a little hardness and will certainly make your boolits look better but you get a rapidly diminishing return vs. cost as you add more than 2% or so tin. Antimony is what you add to harden boolits for higher velocities.


Watch the weight though...fish and turkey fryers (built to hold water or oil) are not built to take the weight you could put on them with lead. A leg fails and your day (month and year) could be ruined.

YES! A quart of lead alloy will weigh about 23-25 pounds so a 5 quart Dutch oven filled to capacity would be 115-125 pounds plus the weight of the Dutch oven. The turkey fryer must be up to handling the weight of the molten alloy or a life changing disaster could follow.

David

[jbltwin1]

Have been using range scrap exclusively for a while. No problems and I can get as much as I want. I keep a few hundred pounds here at all times. Just don't push them real fast and you're fine. Mike