Help w/ Winchester 1894 Saddle Ring Carbine

[eka]

OK guys, I need your opinions here.
I have a friend that has a Winchester 1894 Saddle Ring Carbine in .38-55. It's serial number puts it being manufactured in the 1920's. It has about 40% to 50% original finish left and has had a receiver sight mounted at one time. Both the reciever sight and rear sight are gone. Overall, the rifle has been pretty well cared for. He came to me with the rifle and wanted to know the approximate value. As I was checking the rifle over, I discovered the barrel was very slightly ringed about eight inches from the chamber. Now, I know this is a major deal. I told him the rifle was basically ruined and he was very disappointed about the discovery.

About a year later, he comes to me and says he wants to get rid of the rifle. I was really not interested in the rifle because of the barrel. Then he said he would sell the rifle for $75. Well, I have to admit, that is almost giving it away. So, I told him I would think about it. Now, comes the real question. What are the odds of the barrel shooting decently with the slightly ringed barrel? Not good odds, I know. If it had a rear sight, I would just take it out and see what it would do. But, I don't want to buy a sight for it, just to find out that it won't hit the broad side of a barn. Now, another question. Would it be worth considering a rebarrel job to save this rifle? What would be the cost of the barrel and having it installed? If that is an option, where could I get a replacement barrel? Or should I just walk away and save myself the hassle?

Thanks

[Bullshop]

Ill take it if you dont want it, and Ill pay you a finders fee(boolits). I had a fella bring in an 1886/ 38/56 with the same problem. There was a goose egg bout half way down where a tight patch would fall right through then catch again on the other side. He said it was his Dads and he wanted to hunt with it. He had tried other ammo and said they hit side ways on the target. He wanted to be able to hit a tea cup at 50 yards to hunt Sitka deer and could be happy with that. After a bit of messin with it we got it to hit the tea cup at 100 and he was real happy. The only thing that would shoot good was very soft boolits like 50/1, and a powder with enough kick in the butt to bump up the boolit at the egg and maintane the seal to keep the gas behind the boolit. So there ya go, member I got dibbs!!!
BIC/BS

[Nrut]

eka......you can also have the barrel relined but I don't know how much that cost compared to a new barrel....mic

[Bret4207]

From the historical/way cool aspect I'd say grab it and fast! As far as shooting, you'll never know until you try. For a rear sight just find a piece of steel strapping, like is used to hold bundles of 2x4's together. Cut a piece 3 inches long, put a 90 degree bend about 1/2 inch high in one end and file a shallow Vee in it. Duct tape or electrical tape to the barrel and see how it shoots. Try factory first if you can. 2 or 3 shots will tell you all you need to know. 10 or 20 would be a real test. You can always pick up a used barrel in 30WCF, 32 Special or 38/55, or have it relined for a couple hundred bucks if the historical aspect appeals. Can't go wrong with any quality built rifle for that price. As far as lead goes you'd have to play around, but I have seen some guns shoot pretty wel in spite of ringed, pitted and corroded bores. The muzzle is far more important than the middle of the barrel, within reason anyway.

[beagle]

I'd give $75 to see a fat hog f-rt when it comes to a Model 94 .38-55.

I once had an old M1922 Springfield .22 that was ringed at about the same location. It shot just as well as any .22 I've ever shot, ring and all.

I'd take a shot at it for $75 and if it didn't shoot, there's a place here somewhere in the east that sells replacement Winchester barrels. Buckingham's I think the name is. You should be able to snatch up a barrel and rebarrel it.

Reboring and lining is an option as well./beagle

[StarMetal]

I'll give you $100 for it.

Joe

[grumble]

We could have our first ever Castboolits Auction. I'll bid $125.

[bascom32423]

How about $130.00?

Henry

[45nut]

[QUOTE=Bullshop]Ill take it if you dont want it, and Ill pay you a finders fee(boolits). I had a fella bring in an 1886/ 38/56 with the same problem. There was a goose egg bout half way down where a tight patch would fall right through then catch again on the other side. He said it was his Dads and he wanted to hunt with it. He had tried other ammo and said they hit side ways on the target. He wanted to be able to hit a tea cup at 50 yards to hunt Sitka deer and could be happy with that. After a bit of messin with it we got it to hit the tea cup at 100 and he was real happy. The only thing that would shoot good was very soft boolits like 50/1, and a powder with enough kick in the butt to bump up the boolit at the egg and maintane the seal to keep the gas behind the boolit. So there ya go, member I got dibbs!!!
BIC/BS[/QUOTE

Hey BS,
I have one of those very same 1886/38-56 rifle's and I had that very same thing happen the first try out. I have a few 375 molds here and next time they are out by the casting bench I will try some softer lead,what powder did you use BTW? Neat old rifle,but accurate is interesting too I hear.....


:lovebooli

[eka]

Great ideas guys! Sounds like I need a new project. And Brett, great idea with the strapping for the rear sight. What do you think may have caused the ring? It is slight, so I was thinking it probably was not a boolit sent into a stuck one. That seems to me as though it would have burst the barrel pretty good. Maybe excessive oil? I guess it doesn't really matter, it's just a darn shame it's there.

[Char-Gar]

That ring is not a "good' thing, but it probably isn't a "bad" thing either. I would bet it would shoot just fine, ring and all.

[Ed Barrett]

Here in Missouri the state bird is the "Mud dubber wasp", seems like they are attracted to rifle barrels as nice places to build homes. In the Ozarks you can leave a rifle alone for 20 minutes and they will start building a nest in the barrel. The only way to beat them is to use a .25 caliber or smaller. I think this is part of the popularity of the .243 and 25-06 in Missouri. <g>

[Junior1942]

Ed, I'll match Louisiana's mud dauber wasps against anybody's. The solution is a hospital-type rubber glove over all muzzles. Easy on, easy off.

[Bret4207]

Could have been ice, mud, insects, a patch or peice of a paper patch.

[Bullshop]

Ya!!! once a year I get to step out for the gun show, once a year!!! Soon as I am gone you guys are cuttin in on my dibbs, HAY I was there first!!! I bet you same guys and you know who you are were the same ones that cut in the lunch line, arent ya???HHHHMMMM??? Boy oh boy once a year, I aint never leavin again.
45 Nut
I am pretty shure I have some notes on that rifle. I will look after Church.
BIC/BS

[Bullshop]

45nut
Here is what I found, first I was wrong. It was a 38/70 not a 38/56 so the load prolly wont help ya. I see it used a CCI #250 lrm with 31gn AA #2230 , a dacron wad with a 30/1 alloy from an old Lyman mold that drops at .380" and weights 282gn in that alloy. As I recall the rifle would not accept a cartridge with a boolit larger than .378" even though the groove was closer to .380." Could have been the brass but not shure. Anyway the .378" worked pretty good and I have noted that recovered boolits were expanded to .740" diameted but have not noted what it was that stoped them. Sorry not much help, but maby some ideas.
BIC/BS