Expansion Industries

[foesgth]

I bought some powder from Expansion in November. When I log into my account it says the order is "processing". SWMBO plays around on Facebook so I had her post a question on their page about the order. They finally answered and said, we have called your husband and emailed him many times". We have only one phone number and I check my email daily. They have not sent us any messages. Their Facebook message seems to indicate that they need to charge me hazmat to ship and the website can't handle this charge. Now, I can pay them hazmat, but I wonder if they are trustworthy enough to deal with on powder. These guys have had my money for a month now with no action until they get called on it on Facebook.
What do you wise folks think?

[jonp]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?293145-ETR7-Load-Data

I went through the same thing with them. I added 4lbs to make it worth the shipping. We got it settled on Friday I think, it was shipped Mon and I had it Wed. It's clean powder but I'm experiencing some velocity variation that is troubling.

[bangerjim]

I just gave them the hazmat payment over the phone. No big deal.

Call them and give them your cc number.

I have had excellent results with their customer service AND their powder!!!!!

banger

[foesgth]

Well, I guess Lady Godiva put everything she had on a horse, so I'll call them and pay hazmat. I used to run websites for a living and putting a statement about hazmat on the order page is not hard. If you login and look at the shipping information for the 4# jugs it says:
Lorem Ipsum is simply dummy text of the printing and typesetting industry. Lorem Ipsum has been the industry's standard dummy text ever since the 1500s, when an unknown printer took a galley of type and scrambled it to make a type specimen book. It has survived not only five centuries, but also the leap into electronic typesetting, remaining essentially unchanged. It was popularised in the 1960s with the release of Letraset sheets containing Lorem Ipsum passages, and more recently with desktop publishing software like Aldus PageMaker including versions of Lorem Ipsum.

I guess I missed the hazmat charge in there somewhere!

[rancher1913]

same issue, same company. after placing order a month ago and no sign of powder I contacted them and left my phone number and asked that they call me asap. no call no powder. after a brief consult with a member on here I gave then one last try and somebody actually answered the phone. when I told the lady my problem she turned it over to the owner(or so he claimed) supposedly it was held up waiting on me to give them more money for a hazmat fee but I never got any notices from them. after explaining how much this resembles "bait and switch" said owner promised to have my powder on its way. we shall see.

have no problem with paying a hazmat as I know its required but there was never an indication that the hazmat was not included in the price and never a mention that it would be extra. also never had a business charge your credit card right away then hold your order. owner made some excuses about web site problems as the reason, but if I was in his shoes, I would dang sure get a better IT guy.

[jonp]

Yeah, I'm kinda leery about this whole haz-mat thing. I have no problem with the powder and the guys were very good about it all but how long does it take to fix a webpage? And no-one seems to be actually getting called back. Sounds odd to me but the powder is good and the price even with the haz mat was good enough

[chumly2071]

I had placed an order on 11/13 for more powder, and started getting antsy after not seeing any movement on my "processing" order status. After emailing with no response, I happened to check my home voice mail (number listed on my account info) and there was a call from them needing me to pay the hazmat (11/24 by now). Once the additional payment of $28 was completed, they shipped quickly, but just like my recent experience with another popular reloading vendor, communication was poor to say the least. I have enough powder to last me a bit now, but am thinking I may try some of the CSB1 from another vendor next time just to compare and contrast.

ETA:
Looks like they are finally listing EMC77 as available, at $84.95/4#. Says loads similarly to H335. Curious what manufacturer's powder this really is, like the ETR7/CSB1...

Side note, ETR7 is listed at this time as $65/4#.

[Hamish]

4 posts out of 7 stating that this company has made it a standard business practice of deceiving the customer on price. Interesting,,,,,,,,

[jonp]

4 posts out of 7 stating that this company has made it a standard business practice of deceiving the customer on price. Interesting,,,,,,,,

I agree with you on that statement. Having a problem with a webpage isn't uncommon. Not fixing it for a business is bad juju. Charging a card then waiting for someone to call so you can be charged a fee that was not on the webpage is not cool at all when you know there is a problem.

Just put a simple banner on the page "We are having a problem with the Haz Mat charge of $28 not showing in the final price. Please keep this charge in mind and add it to your final total. Charge the powder and then call us so we can add the $28 manually and confirm your order" or something like that.

[bangerjim]

I have had no problems with them at all. I am NOT associated with them at all....just a satisfied multi-time purchaser.

Funny this............as with anything, ONLY the NEGATIVE aspects get all the attention. Where are all the (perhaps many HUNDREDS) of satisfied users' posts?

I take all the above belly-aching........with a grain of powder! :bigsmyl2:

banger

[daengmei]

I've had 2 other sites do the charge and hold. Both claimed lack of personnel, order back ups. Ready to go but not on the truck! I did get those purchases after some waiting, but not more than 2 weeks late.

[shooterg]

I'm only a few miles from Expansion - it's really a small business in part of a"mini-mall" type building and they're always busy, now they've added some rifle powder and rifle reloads to inventory and have seen "help wanted' adds for more preppers/reloaders. I'm guessing they might have only one guy that has maintaining website as part of his job.
I use 5.4 gr. ETR7 behind both BB and PB H&G 68's with BAC lube and I'm happy,happy,happy.
Need to go get another jug !

[9w1911]

They have some issues that need to be fixed on the site. They have what looks like a web firm handling this, but they are not doing a good job, links do not work for one. I do this stuff for a living and emailed them to work for trade :) I can fix all of those issues.

[rancher1913]

9w1911, somebody needs to fix it but the owner doesn't seem to want to. banger, I know your comment is in jest but after hitting my credit card for hundreds of dollars then not contacting me throws all kinds of red flags for fraud, so my belly aching here may save someone some money that they could not afford to lose, generally when something like this starts happening, its not long till you see in the news about the outfit absconding with peoples money.

[foesgth]

9w1911, somebody needs to fix it but the owner doesn't seem to want to. banger, I know your comment is in jest but after hitting my credit card for hundreds of dollars then not contacting me throws all kinds of red flags for fraud, so my belly aching here may save someone some money that they could not afford to lose, generally when something like this starts happening, its not long till you see in the news about the outfit absconding with peoples money.

I think I agree with you, sir. They keep insisting that they contacted me multiple times. This just isn't true. I checked my spam folder and I know they didn't leave a phone message. I sent them an email and asked that they ship or refund. I finally got a response saying to just call them and pay some extra money (yes, for hazmat) and they will get it right out. I might do this if they had fixed the problem on the website or had contacted me in a reasonable amount of time. As things sit with me now, if they don't refund or ship by the end of the month I will report it to my credit card company.

[jonp]

Before hitting the eject button with the credit card company I'd just call Expansion as a first step, foesgth. Give them a chance to reverse the charge. I understand what everyone is saying but to have a messed up billing system for as long as they have when they know they have a problem is pretty shoddy. You don't charge what is on the website then hold the product until someone contacts you and ask for more money. It is one way to get working capitol on the books for more inventory. It also drives more business than having a banner on the site explaining the problem and asking everyone call to place an order.

I still have not seen a post from someone that paid the initial fee then either was refused a refund on the phone or not get the powder after paying the charge.

I'm surprised someone has not called law enforcement on this one yet but I think that points out to the shooting community being pretty forgiving in some areas.

[dragon813gt]

I though there was a post in the last thread where someone had to fight to get a refund. Here is my question. Is the web ordering fixed yet? I can understand the Black Friday mishap. If it's not fixed by now it's willful intent and I would inform authorities about bait and switch. If the webstore isn't working properly, shut it down.

[9w1911]

They have some web firm out of Texas managing their site, sometimes this is not the most prompt.

[retread]

I have had no problems with them at all. I am NOT associated with them at all....just a satisfied multi-time purchaser.

Funny this............as with anything, ONLY the NEGATIVE aspects get all the attention. Where are all the (perhaps many HUNDREDS) of satisfied users' posts?

I take all the above belly-aching........with a grain of powder! :bigsmyl2:

banger

I too have had great luck with them and will be ordering again soon. Great versatile powder at a good price. What's not to like? All businesses have processing glitches at times. I am with bangerjim on this one, seldom do we hear from the satisfied customers, just the ones with problems.

Merry Christmas to all and be of good cheer.

retread

[John Boy]

Funny this............as with anything, ONLY the NEGATIVE aspects get all the attention. Where are all the (perhaps many HUNDREDS) of satisfied users' posts?Banger - Can't Agree with you more. Usually the same posters running it over and over.
Yes - Satisfied user here. Posted my work up charges already including45LC (250gr), 44-40 for an 1878 Ballard with a cast iron action and 32-20 original Remington RB. 9mm - 380 and 45 Auto, using the charges on the jug. Sitting on the bench waiting for the weather to break - 45LC's with multiple charges for a 243gr bullet to be tested on the chrono.
Bottom Line - I've met the guys in person and had a very pleasant conversation with them. They're a small start up company working out of a one room store front, not a Hodgdon or Alliant. So nay sayers, please - go reload and shoot some calibers not on the jug for the folks on the forum cause the ETR7 is a good powder for many calibers :smile: - instead of posting the same repetative negatives. Okie Dokie?

[foesgth]

John Boy, Banger, Retread and others,

Please understand, I did not start this thread to say anything bad about ETR7. I wanted to try some. But guys, this isn't Bullseye or Unique. It is a new powder to me. The offer they showed on their website made it possible for me to try some. Not that I am doubting your results, but, there are folks on this site that shoot pistols that were not designed by John Browning:kidding:. I have asked them to simply refund my order as it is not as stated on the site. We will see what is on my card statement at the first of the month. That will show what kind of COMPANY we have in Expansion. If I can find some locally I will try it and if I like it I will order enough to justify the hazmat. As the order sits now it will cost me as much or more for an unknown powder as I can get Tightgroup or Bulleye locally. And glory be there is some available locally. I just got an 8# of Bullseye.

So, I did not mean to stir up a can of worms. I hope you all have a Merry Christmas!

Randy

[bangerjim]

And I am not trying to defend a (potentially bad) company that does not support their customers. They gave me excellent service. And their powder is the best I have ever used.

I hope all on here that have a problem with their shipments can get a resolution worked out.

Their site says they are working today and tomorrow to fill orders and get them shipped.

Happy Christmas and a Merry New Year to all!!!!!!!

banger

[Bzcraig]

I had the same problem as the others regarding the hazmat charge. I only purchased because there was no hazmat. After about 10 days of waiting I got the phone call for the additional $28 which went to my voicemail and I inadvertently deleted. Sent several emails explaining my position with no response, finally gave up and disputed the charge.

[retread]

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all here. May God Bless you all.

retread

[jonp]

I just find it strange that a company knows there is a problem and has not fixed it. A simple call to the webmaster/mistress would set it right in short order. I wouldn't worry about canceling the order and getting the money back. That should not be too hard.

I can only say that I found the guy on the phone to be pretty cool, the powder seems ok and the price is alright but that charge and then calling to find out about more money after the initial charge rankles me. With the haz-mat there is other powder out there just as good for the same or less money such as the 8lb jug of Bullseye I saw at the gunshow for $145. Shoddy business practices are not something the consumer has to put up with no matter how "good" the guys on the other end are to them

[9w1911]

I think the problem is this: web designers forgot or were not told to add the hazmat on checkout or the web developers do not know how to add it, now it costs Expansion to add the edit or update. Or they could just send me 24lbs of powder and problem solved :)

Merry Christmas !!!

[FLINTNFIRE]

Well I ordered some when they first came out with etr7 , and the wait afterwards with no contact was unbelievable , I have the powder but it was not very timely , I also saw the advertisement with no haz mat mentioned , did not order and I think you make the mistake you do not fix you stand by your offer , I have before , even though it cost me money it was what was right to do. Good luck and hope they do better.

[rancher1913]

well its been another couple of weeks and still no powder, this after my cc being charged at thanksgiving and then my cc getting charged again for the hazmat before this thread was started. called again on friday and no one would answer phone, went to voice mail after being on hold for next available representitive for 10 minutes. left phone number and message to please call me back asap to let me know what was going on. nothing.

they seem to be screening or ducking calls to me and I'm out several hundred dollars. anybody have a phone number to file fraud charges in the state of virginia.

its is BUYER BEWARE doing business with this company.

[Artful]

That's really a bad deal - And I like the powder - someone pointed out there are local dealers in AZ so my next purchase of it may go that way - at least I will walk out with product after paying.

[Yodogsandman]

When I was on the phone with the rep, he mentioned going on vacation at Christmas time.

[maxreloader]

A company that does not have a reliable web-services company on retainer or that does not have an employee or owner that is knowledgeable in web-dev has ZERO business selling online. It would take an average web-services guy about 60 seconds to change that lorem-ipsum text. the fact that it mentions pagemaker makes me worry... pagemaker is an older (ancient in web-time) program that used to be owned by Aldus... then sold to Adobe. Adobe nixed it YEARS ago. They need somebody that knows their a$$ from their elbow to help them out.

[John Boy]

REPLY TO ME FROM EXPANSION INDUSTRIES, re: HAZMAT
I also sent Lucas the link to this thread.

Here is the true story and your speaking with an owner. Feel free to post this on the thread. We did a sale of our powder for the holiday season and had a ton of orders. Right before Black Friday our website switched platforms to a magento software on the back end. The Magento software did not have a hazmat pricing included in the back end so we put a ticket in with our web developers to add a hazmat price for any hazardous material. Here is what people dont understand. We can ship up to 50lbs under one hazmat fee so it is not as easy as attaching a product to automatically charge when another product goes into a cart. The software has to read the weight of the package so people arent charged too many hazmats or too little. It is a very complex and difficult task but our web developers are working on it and are very close. I had my shipping manager contact all our customers via email and he even called some customers leaving voicemails explaining that we had to charge hazmat before powder could ship. I had multiple customers check out with fake emails so they were not receiving any form of communication we were sending. No company anywhere in this country does not charge hazmat because they do not have a choice. We are required by DOT (from the federal government to charge a hazmat fee) If we do not charge one we will lose are license and potentially can serve jail time for sending a hazardous package without a hazmat sticker.
>
> So a lot of this is just guys dont understand the regulations and we certainly were not trying to fool people into ordering the powder and then swindling money from them before we ship it. Logically though if a gentleman bought a 4lb jug at our sale price of $62 do you really think our company is going to eat a 28.50 DOT charge? I mine as well give the powder to people for free. So honestly I understand peoples frustration but at the same time I cant ship the product by law until it is charged.

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/hazardous-materials/how-comply-federal-hazardous-materials-regulations
>
> Hopefully this helps explain things.
>
> Sincerely,
> Lucas

[rancher1913]

well if your the owner, we talked several weeks ago when you personally took my credit card a second time to cover the hazmat fee and promised the powder would be on its way, were is my powder and why will you 1) not answer the phone & 2) not return a phone call. if I was the owner and was having the problems that you claim, I would be staying late a personally handling delinquent orders. if you really are the owner I need to hear from you asap--you have my phone number, its on your answering machine, was left there Friday.

[maxreloader]

Lucas needs to find a better web-dev situation... looks to me like a comm wordpress/django/CMS setup. These are always overcharged for and yes there is a learning curve for the developers... BUT that is what they are getting paid for. Still unacceptable. Why would any online business try to upgrade/update during the most busy time of the year??? Just a lot of poor decisions made by a company that seems to mean well, have a good/great product but zero grip on their interweb endeavors.

[bangerjim]

Well, I got mine in 4 days and it is GRRRRRRRRREAT powder.

Hope y'all get it resolved.

banger

[NavyVet1959]

Actually, there are some companies that do not charge a HAZMAT charge if you are buying a certain quantity of powder from them.

For example, http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html



No HAZ MAT fee ($28.50) on orders of 6 jugs only (or multiples), mix-or-match
Can ship up to 6 jugs on one HAZ MAT fee. HAZMAT fee charged on less-than-six jug orders.


Interestingly, Midway charges $9.99 for shipping and $19.99 for HAZMAT on a 48 lb order that I just set up for testing. Expansion Industries charges $5 per 4-lb jug, so it would be $60 + the $28 HAZMAT for 48 lbs of powder.

[foesgth]

I asked for a refund and now get no communication from them. I'm filling out the form to dispute the charge at this time.

[rancher1913]

they won't answer the phone now when I call, out almost 400 bucks and since its been 2 months credit card company is being a pain.

[chumly2071]

Reading the response from Lucas above, no matter what the circumstances were or are, still does not explain the difficulty in making contact after an automated web purchase. I too experienced the complete lack of response to emails, and had some difficulty getting someone to answer the phone so that I could complete my order. If you want to make excuses for the web developers, that's fine. But to not address your issues with even responding to customer attempts at direct communication is poor at best. No matter how great this powder is, if you won't make the effort to effectively communicate, then people will stop making the effort to do business with you. It has been pretty much confirmed this powder is repackaged CSB1, so it isn't like we as customers can't buy it elsewhere.

[jonp]

Actually, there are some companies that do not charge a HAZMAT charge if you are buying a certain quantity of powder from them.

For example, http://www.gibrass.com/gunpowder.html



Interestingly, Midway charges $9.99 for shipping and $19.99 for HAZMAT on a 48 lb order that I just set up for testing. Expansion Industries charges $5 per 4-lb jug, so it would be $60 + the $28 HAZMAT for 48 lbs of powder.

Thats because lucas is full of it. There is no "mandatory charge" put in place by fmcsa or anyone else to ship hazmat. Ive had a hazmat endorsement on my cdl for over 25yrs and ive never seen it anywhere. Read his link. Its interesting and some of what i need to know when renewing my endorsement and nowhere is a fee addressed. There are costs involved such as shipping papers, placarding, training etc but that is different. If it has become industry standard to charge $28 for this then just say that.

The powder i got from them is fine and burns clean. Ive no problem with it but wont buy more. Putting a banner on the home page saying "we changed platforms aand the new one does not add the $28.50 hazmat fee. Be aware the final cost will have this added and we will call you to manualy verify the charge until we get our website fixed" or something like that should not be hard. Bad business practice if you ask me

[dragon813gt]

Shipping companies charge the HazMat fee. So it's a mandatory fee for Expansion Industries. You can't compare freight carriers to UPS/FedEx in this regard. Bartlett is eating the cost when you buy enough powder. I'm betting the cost is built into the product to begin w/.

[jonp]

"We are required by DOT (from the federal government to charge a hazmat fee) If we do not charge one we will lose are license and potentially can serve jail time for sending a hazardous package without a hazmat sticker."

That is what he said. Not local shippers, UPS or Fed Ex but Federal DOT. Pure Bull and an outright lie. If shipping companies charge it to them and they pass it on then say so. I find it extremely odd that both UPS and Fed Ex both charge the same fee. By his reasoning every hazmat shipment is required to have the "Federal DOT HazMat Fee" charged and I can tell you flat out that that is not true. I actually read his FMCSA Link and it is a summery of the HazMat book I keep in my truck. Federal Regulations so he is referencing Federal Regs to bolster his silly "we are forced by the Fed's to pay it" claim. Not one place in that book is any fee mentioned. If his claim of $28.50 per sticker for each hazmat package is true what doe you say to a load of 400 cases floor loaded not on pallets? 400 x $28.50 = $11,400. How would Dollar General make a profit with this added on every truck that not only has oil but anti freeze, Marvel Mystery Oil, Hair Spray etc?

I just got an email from Midway that they are dropping the HazMat fee from $28 to $20. Either the fee is whatever they want it to be or they have been overcharging us for powder for years. Also, Graf's had no fee on Vectan for quite some time. You trying to tell me I paid $17 for the lb of GM3, Graf's was charged a "Mandatory DOT Fee" of $28.50 so lost $11.50 on the deal?

Also, His saying they had to charge the fee for every individual shipment up to 50lbs is an odd claim and one I've never heard of. The UPS truck may have a limit they will carry of 50lbs so they have to pay each truck $28.50 but if 5 guys each buy 10lbs they are charged $285.00 or 50 guys each buy 1lb Fed Ex charges $1,450?. Another way to put it is if I carry 40,000lbs of hazmat and my company is charged by DOT at a rate of $28.50/50lbs there would be an additional cartage of $22,800 above the standard rate or I can carry 40,000 lbs for the same price Fed Ex charges 1lb? Not a chance in Hades of that happening.

I talked to Jeff at GI Brass when I bought powder from him and he mentioned that he could only ship so much per day. I assumed that meant each truck would only carry so much and he could only get so many trucks per day at his ship. That sounds reasonable to me.

[bangerjim]

This thing of "only so much at a time" is what I was told by them early on with my 1st order back in June. There was about a week delay in shipping then.

And now, between us on here spreading the word about their in-stock good powder and their advertising, they are probably swamped with orders.

But that does not let them off the hook with the site and posted notifications of fees.

Hope everybody gets their powder! I sure like it. It is the only thing I load these days.

banger

[jonp]

Yes, the powder is fine but the problem with the website they refuse to fix, charging your card then calling you to charge you again before shipping then the cock and bull story about a mythical "Federal HazMat Fee" really rubs me the wrong way.

All could be avoided by just fixing the darn site.

[rancher1913]

after trying to call for several days straight, I finally got someone to answer the phone. he was very rude and passed me of to the "owner" who was very apologetic and seemed sincere, looked it up on his computer and told me I had every right to be mad considering I had ordered before thanksgiving, told me the shipment was in route and according to his paperwork it should arrive Thursday. it made it Thursday.

[NavyVet1959]

It appears that the Midway powder is drop shipped instead of coming directly from Midway. Maybe that makes a difference on the HAZMAT charge?

Unfortunately though, with every powder that I've considered buying from Midway, it was noticeably more expensive than the same powder from PowderValley.

[jonp]

NavyVet: HazMat is HazMat no matter if it go's 1 mile or 1,000 miles. Other drivers on the board can chime in on this but I believe it is like the Fuel Tax which IFTA standardized years ago so you don't need individual permits from each state. There is a routing headache (avoiding tunnels, not parking on the side of the road, where you park at night (safe haven), etc) but other than that not much. If FedEx wants to charge and extra $28.50 for that trouble as well as having the Federal Permits to run HazMat then that's fine. Just don't make up stuff like a "Federal HazMat Sticker Fee".

I don't do business with liars

[NavyVet1959]

NavyVet: HazMat is HazMat no matter if it go's 1 mile or 1,000 miles. Other drivers on the board can chime in on this but I believe it is like the Fuel Tax which IFTA standardized years ago so you don't need individual permits from each state. There is a routing headache (avoiding tunnels, not parking on the side of the road, where you park at night (safe haven), etc) but other than that not much. If FedEx wants to charge and extra $28.50 for that trouble as well as having the Federal Permits to run HazMat then that's fine. Just don't make up stuff like a "Federal HazMat Sticker Fee".

I don't do business with liars

I'm just wondering if by drop shipping it, they are possibly avoiding some of the double HAZMAT charge of the powder shipped from the manufacturer to them and then them shipping it to the customer.

Prices at Midway vs PowderValley (8 lb jugs) for a random selection of powders:
AA#5 -- 155.99 vs 143.60 -- 12.39 difference
H335 -- 178.99 vs 145.75 -- 33.24 difference
Alliant Promo -- 124.99 vs 109.00 -- 15.99 difference
Alliant Green Dot -- 152.99 vs 128.00 -- 24.99 difference

Sure, Midway is cheaper on the shipping and HAZMAT, but that savings is quickly lost once you factor in their higher prices for the powder.

Now, *if* you were just buying a single pound of powder, it might make Midway more price competitive. For example, 1 lb of AA#5 shipped from Midway would be a total of $51.97 whereas from PowderValley it would be $58.10. But, considering the HAZMAT overhead, *who* just orders a single pound of powder online and has it shipped to them? If you buy 48 lbs of AA#5, Midway will charge you a total (including shipping and HAZMAT) of $959.92 ($20/lb) vs PowderValley charging $914.05 ($19.04/lb).

[DanOH]

Anybody still waiting for their powder or has the problem been resolved?

[bangerjim]

I'm just wondering if by drop shipping it, they are possibly avoiding some of the double HAZMAT charge of the powder shipped from the manufacturer to them and then them shipping it to the customer.

Prices at Midway vs PowderValley (8 lb jugs) for a random selection of powders:
AA#5 -- 155.99 vs 143.60 -- 12.39 difference
H335 -- 178.99 vs 145.75 -- 33.24 difference
Alliant Promo -- 124.99 vs 109.00 -- 15.99 difference
Alliant Green Dot -- 152.99 vs 128.00 -- 24.99 difference

Sure, Midway is cheaper on the shipping and HAZMAT, but that savings is quickly lost once you factor in their higher prices for the powder.

Now, *if* you were just buying a single pound of powder, it might make Midway more price competitive. For example, 1 lb of AA#5 shipped from Midway would be a total of $51.97 whereas from PowderValley it would be $58.10. But, considering the HAZMAT overhead, *who* just orders a single pound of powder online and has it shipped to them? If you buy 48 lbs of AA#5, Midway will charge you a total (including shipping and HAZMAT) of $959.92 ($20/lb) vs PowderValley charging $914.05 ($19.04/lb).

Who in their right mind would order a single pound of powder in the mail???? Minimum of 16# for me. Spreads the fee around nicely.

banger

[NavyVet1959]

Who in their right mind would order a single pound of powder in the mail???? Minimum of 16# for me. Spreads the fee around nicely.

banger

I like to max out the order and depending on the online store, that might be 48-50 lbs.

[bangerjim]

Know what 'ya mean! And the more a package weighs, the less/# it costs! UPS/FEDEX/USPS make their fortunes on those package that weigh 2-12#! (A majority of what is normally shipped)

[jonp]

I ususaly order 8lb min when doing it online. If your going to order 1lb you might as well buy it in a store. The only exception was some Vectan from Graf's when they had a shipping deal going on. I bought 2lbs to try.

Any update on Expansion. Anyone order from them lately and what was the shipping deal? I hate to flame a company that has a good product. The etr7 seems like good stuff to me.

[rancher1913]

been using the powder and so far I do like it but the 3+ month wait and the stick up for shipping really soured me on the company, several other powders just as good with better people to stand behind it. so no I will not be ordering from these people ever again.

[William Yanda]

Do you have Expansion Ind. on your contact list? Did you check your spam folder? That kind of stuff has tripped me up before.
Bill

[rancher1913]

yes william, I even contacted them by phone multiple times and got run arounds. there are several threads about the atrocious customer service at this company. several have had good experiences but several have had horrible experiences and to me that says STAY AWAY and throws up all kinds of red flags. sooner or later somebody is going to be left high and dry when this outfit files for bankruptcy, its only a matter of time.

[bangerjim]

I have placed 3 orders over the past year and a half and they shipped the powder each time within a week of me calling the order in. Even got an email each time with FEDEX traking info.

Gotta hold your mouth just right, I guess.

Great powder! Sorry to hear some have had problems.

bangerjim

[jonp]

The powder I ordered was shipped immediately when the shipping was taken care of so I can't complain on the shipping time. What I'm wondering about is the shipping charge not being added to the order then having to call a week later or being called and told about the $28 hazmat fee after your card was charged for the powder. Is that still going on?

Seems like a company that started up and really got snowed under with orders and is struggling to fill them all.

[chumly2071]

They now appear to be looking for money. Got this in an email tonight.

[jonp]

Yeah, checked my email and i got one too. Pretty rich. Using customer email to stump for money. Next up, your email address gets sold and you get spammed. I sent them a return email telling them what i thought of their shipping scheme/fraud, my objection to using the customer base to beg for cash to "invest" in their company , suggested they use some of that $600k on fixing the website and letting them know id never order anything from them again due to the unethical shipping scheme and email i just got

[Uncle Jimbo]

Got it also. I read through it and said to my self, I think I will just put my money back under the mattress.

[abqcaster]

While I don't' care for their shipping and hazmat practices, the component fund looks like a legitimate investment opportunity. It's what any rapidly growing company would do and they're offering very reasonable terms, including fund ownership of assets which facilitates liquidation if necessary. What's more, they may be seen as abusing customer privacy by soliciting this opportunity with their mailing list, but is also a way of presenting an opportunity to everyday, loyal customers instead of just elite fund managers. I would consider it if I had the funds available, myself. The ammo industry could really take off (again) if another democrat gets elected.