What powder for 158gr SWC and 38spl snubnose?

[JNG3]

Hopefully this is the right forum for this question.


158gr cast SWC brinell hardness 12
1 7/8" barrel +p rated 38spl

I have multiple reloading manuals with plenty of data. But all the data is for 6" similar length barrels. What powder or powders should I be looking at for the best velocity from a snubnose? Unique, 2400, and Silhoutte come to mind. Looking for 800 fps. Would like some advice before purchasing powder that may not produce the velocity and that I may not have a use for in other calibers. Thanks in advance.

[robg]

ramshot true blue meters well similar speed to unique clean burning

[Tracy]

My first choice would probably be 2400, but if you already have Unique, that would work too.
I've actually loaded a 195 grain #358430 to 800+ fps in a 2" Taurus M85 using Alcan AL8, which is similar in burning speed to 2400.

[OptimusPanda]

If you can find some clays I have found that to shoot very well, even in the snubs. I think max charge was 3 grains. Just under that is what I normally load.

[Outpost75]

These chronograph data from early Ruger SP101 chambered in .38 Special with 2" barrel, cylinder gap Pass 0.004", Hold 0.005":

Federal 147-grain HSHP +P+ LE 922 fps, 15 Sd
Winchester 158 JHP 11.0 Alliant #2400, Winchester case, WSP, OAL 1.40" 924 fps, 21 Sd - exceeds industry +P standard pressure by about 15%!
Winchester X38SPD 158-grain Lead SWC+P 821 fps, 36 Sd
Winchester 130-grain SXT 920 fps, 23 Sd
Winchester 147-grain JHP +P 857 fps, 14 Sd
Winchester 110-grain JHP Q4070 +P+ LE 1057 fps, 21 Sd

If you want 800 fps with a 158-grain lead SWC 4 grains of Bullseye with the Remington .358" component bullet gave 775 fps, 20Sd from the 2-inch. barrel and was accurate.

[salpal48]

My first any only Choice is 4.0 GRN W 231 with 158 SWC This was the lyman accuracy Load. I have been using this for a great many years. without Fail
Sal

[35remington]

A great number of powders will meet your criteria out of that barrel length, and some will not fall short by much even if they are standard pressure. Unique, Herco, W231, Power Pistol, etc. will all do it. So will a lot of others. Power Pistol supposedly gets high velocity, and I have verified that it does exceed your requirement even at supposed standard pressure, but it's a bit blasty compared to other powders

For an eye opener: Try velocity with powder near bullet, then powder near primer (raise or lower before firing) and note the results. Since you have specifically mentioned Unique between 4.8 and 5 grains will likely get you there. I have used 2400 in 38's but generally prefer something a bit cleaner burning to avoid tying up the gun with loose powder granules getting where they shouldn't.

I have Silhouette but have not yet used it in .38.

[Tracy]

Ed Harris has recommended a load of 4.5 grains of Bullseye with a 158 JHP for right at 800 fps out of a 2" SP101. Speer listed 4.9 grains of Bullseye under a 158 jhp in their no. 10 manual, and 4.2 Bullseye under a 158 lead bullet for a standard pressure load in both their no. 10 and 12 manuals. I don't have their later or earlier manuals. I also don't have their no. 11 any more, but I used to and I'm pretty sure it listed a +P load of 4.5 BE under 158 lead. I used that load for years, and in fact have a Little Dandy measure bushing for it.
Lead gives higher velocity and lower pressure than jacketed, and I'm pretty sure 4.5 BE would do what you want. In fact, 4.2 grains would likely do it, and is not even +P.

[35remington]

4.9 Bullseye with a 158 is way, way beyond plus P. 4.2 is Plus P and then some in current manuals. Beware.....check recent manuals for proper recommendations as old data is often overboard pressurewise, as it was never pressure tested. If you have a reference to where Ed Harris recommended 4.5 Bullseye, I'd wouldn't mind seeing that.

[kenyerian]

http://castpics.net/project2/CastDatalist.php?cmd=search&t=CastData&z_Cartridge=LIKE&x_Cartridge=38+Special+%2BP Castpics has some good +P loads.


38 Special +P
158
158 LSWC
AL Bullseye
3.8
945 I have went through a lot of Bullseye with this load.

[Blackwater]

There are many powders that'll work, and there probably isn't that much difference in performance between them to fret about. With a snubby, you just can't get enough velocity in .38 to make that much difference, so the way to go, IMO, is the heavier bullets - 158's & 168's. You'll also want minimal muzzle flash in case you have to shoot in low light (to protect your night vision and not blind yourself). Clean burning is way down the list of priorities for a load like this, and anyway, it's really easy to run a brush into a snubby's bore and cylinders, and get any fouling out. Accuracy is and will always be Priority One, though. Only hits count in a gunfight, and exact placement really DOES matter. Ask any pathologist how much if you don't believe me. Mostly, the medium burn rate powders will likely be your best bet. However, I HAVE noted that 2400 often produces minimal flash. I've never loaded that load in .38, but maybe I should give it a try. I surely think it'd be worth pursuing, now that I think about it.

[Larry Gibson]

I have shot a bajillion 38 SPL rounds out of 1 7/8 - 2 1/2" revolvers over the years especially when I was LEO firearms instructor. My standard practice load was a 150 - 160 cast SWC over 3.8 gr Bullseye. Always was and still is an excellent load. It's what I use in my M19 2 1/2". I use the Lyman 358477 and the Lee TL358-158-SWC.

Larry Gibson

[fecmech]

I would recommend staying away from 2400 in your snubby or any .38 spl wheel gun. It burns very dirty with many paticles at less than 20kpsi. Unless you eject your cases with the muzzle straight up these powder particles get under the extractor star and tie the gun up. Hard to beat Bullseye in the .38 spl.
PS. The new BE86 from Alliant looks very promising for HV in the .38 spl.

[Tracy]

4.9 Bullseye with a 158 is way, way beyond plus P. 4.2 is Plus P and then some in current manuals. Beware.....check recent manuals for proper recommendations as old data is often overboard pressurewise, as it was never pressure tested. If you have a reference to where Ed Harris recommended 4.5 Bullseye, I'd wouldn't mind seeing that.

http://handloads.com/loaddata/myloaddata.asp?email=ke4sky

Yeah, I know. Because data published this morning is 100% correct, while anything published before today is a pipe bomb. I guess that's why there are no old .38 Special revolvers in existence, since they were all blown up years ago by all those idiots who published prior manuals.

I'm not recommending 4.9 grains, merely pointing out that Speer used to recommend it before they stopped publishing any 158 grain +P loads. Ed doesn't recommend his load for S&W snubbies, but his load uses a jacketed bullet which raises pressures.
Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook lists a +P load of 4.5 Bullseye under a 358311 (158 grain) at 18,200 CUP.
And I know, CUP is not necessarily the same as PSI tested this week with a peizoelectric transducer. But you won't find any such data using your exact boolit and your exact alloy, either.

[RogerDat]

I tried titegroup because bullseye was just not available and TG was. Seemed fairly decent in snubby use. No chrono so no idea of actual FPS and I tend to load the revolver stuff on the lower rather than higher side. Might be worth looking into some load data for titegroup. Member here suggested it to me as a BE alternative.

[bangerjim]

I load TiteGroup and ETR7 in ALL my 38's (and 357mag)......short, medium, & long. Even carbines. All perform with excellent results. Just use the load data you have in you books!

banger

[35remington]

Just pointing out that more rigorously tested data correctly lists the old loads as beyond plus P pressures, which they were. Information worth knowing when load data is being tossed about.

Lyman's PARH is equally dated now. Plus P is now noted as being well below 4.5 grains. Do with it what you will.

Ed noted that 4.5 grains Bullseye was beyond Plus P pressures in your reference as well, FWIW.

[Outpost75]

I know Ed well and we both used to shoot at the Quantico gun club 20-some years ago. We used to have access to a Universal Receiver and pressure test equipment and did quite a bit of pressure testing by the old radial copper method. With Hercules Bullseye produced in the late 1970s and early '80s the 4.5 grain load shot great in the Rugers and Colt OP, but was NOT something you would want to use in any J- or K-frame S&W, maybe an L-frame would be OK, but it was 20,000+ cup which absolutely exceeds current +P standard. SP101 was designed from the gitgo as being suitable for .357 and a .38 Special chambered SP 101 has no issues with the +P+ law enforcement loads, which generally run up to maximum 22,500 cup sample average, and 24,000 X-bar+3 Sigma.

[Tracy]

I wouldn't and don't shoot +P on a regular basis in a J or K frame Smith, but I don't shy away from carry and occasional practice loads in the 20-22K range in my K frames. K frames have had heat treated cylinders since the early '30s, and S&W was making .357 Mag K frames since long before SAAMI reduced the .357 pressure spec to 35K (because K frames were loosening up; not blowing up with continual use of 40K+ loads).
John Taffin actually used to carry and practice with a J frame Chief's loaded with Skeeter Skelton's .38/44 load of a 158 grain 358156 over 13.5 grains of old (new is slightly faster) 2400, which is full .357 Mag pressure.
http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt38spcl.htm
In his own words: "Skeeter Skelton also favored the use of .38 Special brass in his .357 Magnums, favorites of which were the six and one-half inch Ruger Flat-top, the four-inch Model 19, and the five-inch Model 27. Skeeter used Lyman's Ray Thompson designed #358156 semi-wadcutter gas check bullet seated in the bottom crimp groove over Elmer's powder charge. This load is less powerful by about fifty feet per second than Keith's .38 Special load. I not only use Skeeter's load in .357's, but also in my .38 Chief's Special. This is not a recommended load. But I shoot it sparingly and it is very comforting to me to know that the little two-inch Chief's Special will deliver the 158 grain SWC bullet at over 1100 fps."

Bottom line: I don't recommend any of these loads. I don't recommend handloading, casting bullets, shooting guns even with factory ammo, riding motorcycles, or lots of other things I personally do, because I don't want to be held responsible if something goes wrong. But if you don't know, you would be amazed at some of the weak guns that have been and in some cases continue to be built for .38 Special. Big name factory ammo makers and big name load data publishers take these guns into account, which is why we see factory .38 ammo that soots the cases when fired.

Don't get me wrong, 35Remington; you are absolutely correct in pointing this out, and anyone loading for .38 Special needs to know it. But for those willing to accept the risk for their own actions, it is also worth knowing that a modern .38 Special revolver is not gonna blow up just because some arbitrary threshold of 18,000 psi is crossed. Most modern .38 Special revolvers are also made in a .357 Mag version, and that is 35,000 psi.

[cephas53]

Have been recently working on this with the powders I have on hand, 231, Bullseye and Unique. Using a 162 gr RCBS SWC I also found as Outpost stated 4.0 grs. Bullseye ran 772 fps.
Unique easily took me over 800 fps.

[35remington]

If it was pointed out that some of the loads put forth in print here considerably exceeded Plus P spec right from the start a lot of ink could have been saved.

While the cylinders were heat treated the frames were relatively soft until a much later date, affecting the K and J frames. Since the OP was asking about a practice load that approximated reasonable pressures, durability of the firearm for extended shooting sessions is the relevant issue, not whether it would blow up immediately upon firing.

The load asked for doesn't require gun strain to achieve.

I agree what you pointed out is worth knowing. In my opinion what I set forth is worth knowing even more than that, and keeps one out of trouble whether a little or a lot of shooting is done.

[Petrol & Powder]

Getting all the way back to the first post. The OP seems to be very focused on velocity and although velocity is part of the equation, it's not everything. The 1 7/8" barrel tells us that the OP has a S&W J-frame. The OP's choice of bullet is an outstanding one (158gr SWC) and there's nothing wrong with seeking adequate velocity with that bullet out of that gun, BUT I don't think velocity is everything.

I think sometimes we get overly concerned about velocity and occasionally even worry that we don't have enough velocity. A 158 grain SWC launched from a snubnose that is accurate, not hard on the gun and reasonably fast would be a far more practical goal that just using velocity as your sole yardstick of success. Just my $0.02.

Now, there are some ways to get 800ish feet per second with a 158 grain bullet out of a short barrel and several posters have made good suggestions towards that goal.

Bullseye works well in short barrels but you'll get well into high pressures quickly, so be careful. Bullseye would be my first choice in a short barrel application but I would try to stay in the low +P territory instead of seeking the highest possible velocity.
CFE Pistol will do it in a longer barrel per Hodgdon's data and Tazman reports he obtained similar results, so it might work in a shorter barrel if 800 feet/sec. was your goal.

I would stay away from the slower burning powders like H110/296.

[JNG3]

I am the OP. The revolver in question is a Ruger LCRX (exposed hammer). Yes, I am set on using a 158gr lswc. As for velocity, I would like to see 800 fps, but anything over 725 would be fine. I don't need a 1000 fps load if that would even be possible or practical. I own a GP100 for that. Thanks to all for the advice and thoughts on powder.

[Kosh75287]

I'll preface this by admitting of a very strong bias in favor of Alliant Pistol Powders. We tried getting a 158gr. SWC to leave a 3" barrel S&W M36 at 1000 f/s, and got very close, but inevitably with loads well past the +P range. We tried Bullseye, Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique, Herco, and Blue Dot. Red Dot, Green Dot, Unique and Herco worked best for us. Unique and Herco gave us the highest velocities, but also gave pretty spectacular flash, especially in anything resembling low-light conditions. Blue Dot gave us lower velocities than everything except Bullseye, and pretty much transformed the 3" M36 into something of a 5-shot ear-splitting flame-thrower. YMMV

The 4.0/WW231/158 load is a good "middlin" .38 Special load. Accurate, economical, could shoot it all day. A friend with a high-dollar PPC pistol that he described as "shot out" shot as well with 3.0/WW231/158 SWC as it did with the 2.7/Bullseye/148HBWC that seems to be the coin of the realm for those contests. The recoil was very similar.

[35remington]

Power Pistol would have got you close to there, within Plus P pressures. For whatever reason PP has heavier loads sanctioned for it....despite being between Unique and Herco in burn rate. You'd think it would do about what they do, but Alliant cranks things up a bit with it. No luck on the blast as it's definitely there with this powder.

[Japlmg]

Any really fast burning pistol powder will do; Bullseye, Unique & Red Dot are among the fastest.
I personally use Red Dot.
Gregg

[umwminer]

Unique

[Tim357]

Brian Pearce penned an article on the Ruger LCR and suitable loads in Handloader 276, Feb-Mar 2012. Under +P load pressure, he reported 1004 fps with a Rimrock SWC HP GC 158gr and 6.3 gr Alliant Power Pistol. He also reported 814 fps, std pressure load of 4.7 Unique and Oregon Trail 158 SWC and 852 fps using 4 gr Titegroup, same boolit.
Power Pistol is very good at obtaining decent velocity with decent pressure.

[Lloyd Smale]

bullseye has been THE POWDER for 38 specials since before I was born in the 50s and for good reason.

[Shiloh]

Bullseye or Unique.
I'm biased towards these powders though. Yu have many choices. 231. AA#2, AA#5, just to name a few.

Shiloh

[DerekP Houston]

my speer #14 has a section specifically for 2" snubbies. Might be worth a read if you'd like me to scan it. They recommend the gold-dot sb version but I'm sure a cast boolit would work. I've been using 3gr bullseye under a 148 DEWC

[lotech]

Bullseye, 231, and HS-6.

[jmort]

Unique all the way.

[ironhead7544]

Speer #13 shows Power Pistol as the highest velocity +P 158 gr LSWC load. I would use the start load and work up to your 800 fps goal.

[lightload]

Anybody remember Jeff Cooper's .38 snubby load? 5 grains of Red Dot and a 158 Jacketed bullet. He said that it gave 1000 fps from a 2 inch barrel and admitted that it was hard on the gun. I never had the nerve to try this one.

[Piedmont]

Anybody remember Jeff Cooper's .38 snubby load? 5 grains of Red Dot and a 158 Jacketed bullet. He said that it gave 1000 fps from a 2 inch barrel and admitted that it was hard on the gun. I never had the nerve to try this one.

No, but I used one of his .45 ACP loads and blew a case head. Cooper was no loading expert. I found it amusing that in later years he was having his rifle ammo loaded by someone else and this was for a wildcat. If you cared enough to go for a wildcat, wouldn't you load your own ammo?

[chucky64]

Accurate #2,#5 and WSF and WST would be my powder of choice for a short barrel snubbie.

[takasaki]

3.5gr of Red Dot
Shot thousands of these and wouldn't conisder changing it for nothing.

[Jersey Joe]

I've been using my stash of Clays, but we all know that ship has sailed.

[Bonz]

can't find any powder that can push 158gr Lead SWC out of a 1.875" barrel at 800fps, according to the QuickLoad software anyway

[35remington]

Hint: Power Pistol. If Quickload says otherwise Quickload is wrong. Several other powders will as well.

[David2011]

bullseye has been THE POWDER for 38 specials since before I was born in the 50s and for good reason.


Bullseye, 231, and HS-6.

Agreed. I've found 231 to be pretty clean burning in most cartridges if that's a factor. Bullseye is my go to for light to medium .38 loads since 1981.


I've been using my stash of Clays, but we all know that ship has sailed.

Seems to be available sporadically.

David

[Bonz]

Hint: Power Pistol. If Quickload says otherwise Quickload is wrong. Several other powders will as well.

161693

Quickload say 527fps with 158 grain Lead bullet and 6 grains of PowerPistol (+P Load) out of a 1 7/8" barrel

[35remington]

Quickload is dead wrong. 5.4 grains gets 830 from that barrel length and is not Plus P.

Actual results are far better science than predictions. The mistake is to get overly bemused with prediction and mistake it for actual results, which has the superior science.

Quickload frequently fails with pistol loads. Really....if Plus P pressures are being generated does it make sense that only 527 fps would be obtained with a powder that approximates Herco?

Think about it.

[Treeman]

Bonz, I am not a Quickload user....but I suspect that your problem may be the barrel length entered. When we talk about any barrel other than a revolver we generally measure from breechface to muzzle.....but with revolvers the barrel is the barrel exclusive of the cylinder length. Add the cylinder and your 1 7/8 barrel is suddenly more like a 3.4 inch barrel. In any case the chrony does not agree with the conclusion QL generated.

[Hick]

I like 700X-- based on the highly scientific basis that I have lots of it. Hornady says 3.7 grains under a 158 gr lead SWC will get you about 800 fps

[ell198679]

Probably a silly question. Do you have to use +p brass for most of these loads. What's a good OAL length for LEE 158-358 swc.

[tazman]

Probably a silly question. Do you have to use +p brass for most of these loads. What's a good OAL length for LEE 158-358 swc.

No, you don't need to use +P brass. As to the Lee boolit, Crimp it in the crimp groove and shoot it. The OAL comes out fine that way.

[ell198679]

thanks I've been reloading the 105 gr version for a while. Figured it be very similar.

[JBinMN]

I have used Red Dot pushing a TL358 -158 SWC in the missus LCR 357. I have been doing testing for her with "reduced loads" for 38Spec. & 357Mag. I have chrono data for it using a 357Mag case from 3.7gr to 4.1 gr. when I was looking for some milder loads for her to shoot, even though she prefers 38Sp within the range of 2.5 -2.9gr. same boolit. The data I gathered at that time for the 4.0gr Red Dot load in a 357mag case is where the velocities began to "stay" in the 725+fps. I will share this data here just for your consideration when trying to decide what loads might be applicable for your 38Spec. in this topic. It is YOUR responsibility if you try to duplicate this data.:

Set: 13
Created: 16/11/17 16:19
Description: 357M TL358-158gr SWC 4.0gr Red Dot
Notes 1: Ruger LCR snubnose Win. SPM primers
Notes 2: *I* cartridges
Distance to Chrono(FT): 10.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 158.00
Temp: 31 °F
BP: 30.10 inHg
Altitude: 0.00
# FPS FT-LBS PF
6 767 206.43 121.19
5 775 210.75 122.45
4 763 204.28 120.55
3 795 221.77 125.61
2 800 224.57 126.40
1 781 214.03 123.40
Average: 780.2 FPS
SD: 14.9 FPS
Min: 763 FPS
Max: 800 FPS
Spread: 37 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 781 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00

In the Lyman manual #49 & #50 and the Cast Bullet manual they all list the Max. load for 38Spec using a 160gr. cast boolit is 3.6 gr. Red Dot. The +P loads Max. in those same manuals are at 4.1gr Red Dot with that same boolit. If one uses that data for that 160gr. boolit with with a 158gr. boolit, In My Opinion , one should be safe to use a 4.0gr. Red Dot load with a 38Special LCR(or X) and consider it within those Lyman Manuals specifications for that +P 160gr. load but substituting a 158gr. boolit.

Once again, I will say that it is YOUR responsibility to verify this data & do so At YOUR Own Risk.

I work these loads up in my own way & start below Start levels listed in many manuals from my own researching and are tested At MY Own Risk. I can only claim that this is what "I" have found for data. Others may have different results.

Note the temperature(conditions) when I was testing these loads also. It was about 31F. That may mean that were anyone else to use this load at some other temperature( or conditions), the data may not be the same due, to temperature(conditions) variables.

I believe each firearm is different in how it performs with different loads. What might work for me & a particular model of firearm, may not work for you or anyone else with the same model firearm.

I am only offering this as an attempt to help out. I am not recommending anything but only sharing part of what I have done so far by myself. I would hope that you , or anyone else who reads these types of topics, takes the time to actually go & find the info themselves by researching what folks offer as the loads that work for them. That responsibility of making safe loads is each persons responsibility & not just what one reads on the internet.

I would suggest that anyone who wishes to test loads should at least spend the $$ to get good reputable & recent information from manuals, and to also get a good chronograph to test the loads they create. It is also good practice to start lower & work up if nothing else for safety reasons.

Each of us is responsible for our own doins. I know I am repeating myself, but sometimes that is unfortunately necessary for some folks... Some would say, "Preaching to the choir.", but I also know there are a lot of folks asking questions about "what powder to use?", etc., & may or may not know what they are doing with what info they are given. We do not know who reads these topics & what experience level or common sense level their mind may be at. I get hesitant about sharing info sometimes, because I do not want to have anything "I' share, to be misread & then someone else goes & screws up.

Anyway...

I wish ya G'luck! with whatever powder choices your decide upon. I hope you find what ya seek & are safe when ya use the load(s) ya choose.

--------------

P.S. - tested with powder to boolit & raised to fire, IIRC. ( powder "forward" IOW) Then kept in firing position on sandbags until done with string. Meaning the other cases had powder affected by recoil after the first shot.

[derek45]

S&W 642 chrony data

some of this is +p data

158gr
6.6 HS-6 838
5.4 CFE-p 821
5.2 unique 857
4.8 HP38 821
4.3 TG 830

https://i.imgur.com/SgsCKig.jpg

[Outpost75]

VERY important factor in REVOLVERS is cylinder gap!

Mean Assembly Tolerance in NEW revolvers before proofing is 0.005" pass and 0.006" hold.

It is normal for guns to open up 0.001" after proofing.

You can expect a drop of 10 fps for each 0.001" increase in cylinder gap above Mean Assembly Tolerance with standard pressure .38 Special loads, more than that with +P.

It is also normal for a 2" gun at min. tolerance 0.003 pass/0.004" hold to produce higher velocities than a 4" gun at maximum customer service tolerance [for a used gun] of 0.008" pass/0.009" hold.

With .38 +P, +P+ LE or .357 difference is even greater!

[BD]

Bullseye, 231, Titegroup and Unique all work just fine in the .38 sp. I think the easiest way to push the velocity of a 158 grainer in a .38 is to go to a RNFP which moves more boolit out front of the case, leaving more capacity in the case. It is my belief that this can get me to 800 fps + at the very low end of +P pressures.
I wore out my first M36 in about 10,000 rounds. Had nothing to do with the pressure levels, it was the firing pin bushing that got so worn the primer hits became too random for reliability. I'm working on the second one, (a 442 with the transfer bar, so it might last longer?). I'll let you know if it doesn't outlast me.

[BD]

By the way, Quickload is a useful tool as a guideline for pressure and all around predictor for rifles, but it's pretty much worthless for predicting velocity in revolvers. In part due to the barrel gap and in part due to the extreme variability of real world velocities between individual revolvers, even those with from the same manufacturer with consecutive serial numbers. This issue was well covered in an article in one of the reloading manuals years ago titled something like, "Why ballisticians get grey hair". There are simply too many possibilities for variation in the production of a revolver to expect predictable velocities out of such short barrels.

[uscra112]

Bonz, I am not a Quickload user....but I suspect that your problem may be the barrel length entered. When we talk about any barrel other than a revolver we generally measure from breechface to muzzle.....but with revolvers the barrel is the barrel exclusive of the cylinder length. Add the cylinder and your 1 7/8 barrel is suddenly more like a 3.4 inch barrel. In any case the chrony does not agree with the conclusion QL generated.

I am a dedicated Quickload user, and you have hit the nail on the head. I have done a bunch of loads for a S&W Model 60, so I'm more than a little familiar with the QL model for .38 snubbies. My barrel from forcing cone to muzzle is 1.8 inches, length breech face to muzzle is 3.8 inches, and THAT is the number QL expects you to enter.

Yes, you can get a Power Pistol load to show 800+ fps, from that barrel length, with a pressure around 17,000 psi. (My model settled on 5.5 grains, not 6.0. Seating depth matters - I'm using .437 inches. )

I use PP in the 9mm, but in my .38 I'm still partial to Bullseye. PP was engineered for 20kpsi and up, while Bullseye works well even at low single digits, and I do a lot of that for my antique pistols and small game rifles.

Notice that QL has no ability to account for pressure loss at the cylinder gap, so it's probably going to report higher velocities than the Chrony does. I don't bother using the Chrony with pistol loads, so I can't offer any hard data.

[mtgrs737]

For very short barrels I like fast powders, those in the Red Dot burning rate range. Always refer to loads published in loading manuals or just contact the powder manufacturers for their recommendations.

[uscra112]

I've loaded a lot of Red Dot, too, but not in the .38 Special. In the QL model it shows as burning 100% before the bullet exits. So maybe less muzzle flash.

[robert12345]

The classic load for 38 spl, is 5.0 Unique.

[Hi-Speed]

Old post, but I’ll add that 5.6 grs Power Pistol and 158 gr Speer LSWC and CCI-500 primers gets me from low 825 FPS avg to high 845 fps avg on separate tests. Shot faster in Summer heat. Chronograph business is sometimes confusing.

[Carrier]

S&W 642 chrony data

some of this is +p data

158gr
6.6 HS-6 838
5.4 CFE-p 821
5.2 unique 857
4.8 HP38 821
4.3 TG 830

https://i.imgur.com/SgsCKig.jpg


That 6.6 grains of HS-6 must sound like a 357 out of that short barrel. A real accurate load out of my 14 with a 8 3/8” barrel is 5.9 grains of HS-6 with a 158 plated bullet.

[Carrier]

Damn I have to quit posting without my glasses. Didn’t realize it was so old.

[Petrol & Powder]

WOW, a 2015 thread !

[Hi-Speed]

A Speer +P loading I like is 3.7 grs Bullseye with 158 gr Speer LSWC seated 1.440 with CCI 500 primers. It chronographs from my S&W 637 approx 735 FPS.

[roysha]

I like 700X-- based on the highly scientific basis that I have lots of it. Hornady says 3.7 grains under a 158 gr lead SWC will get you about 800 fps

Yup. I've shot 1000s of them.

[smkummer]

The gun writer Charles Petty ran an artical in the early 80’s about standard and plus P 38 special loads in I believe snub guns. At the time, he also published what manufacture’s stated about plus P in their revolvers. About all I remember from that article was his winner of the day was 800X. I just loaded remingtons 95 grain hollow point that was advertised for a 2” revolver to a non plus P loading of 1090 FPS with 800X from a 10 year old IMR powder booklet.

[ipopum]

Yes everyone has a favorite load . Is it fast ? is it accurate? Which is best? For my gun I settled on B Eye. It was not the fastest but it shot the best.

For me hitting what I aim at is the most important.

My gun was not a short barrel but a medium.

[Lance Boyle]

If you can find some clays I have found that to shoot very well, even in the snubs. I think max charge was 3 grains. Just under that is what I normally load.

I like the think of clays as a fluffy bullseye comparable powder. Love it in .45 with 200 lswc.