Plain base bullets in marlin 45-70

[glockky]

I just picked up a Marlin 1895 GBL in 45-70. I am now looking at molds. I was wanting to know if most have success with plain base bullets in marlins if velocities are kept around 1500fps. I plan to shoot a 400gr bullet so I don't think I will ever be going over 1500 fps.
I am really hoping to get by with a plain base mold to avoid buying gas checks but don't want to purchase a mold and regret it later.

thanks

[kungfustyle]

I got the 460 405 fp from NOE. Great mold and plane base. Used 38.3g of 3031 w/ dacron and had a 1/2" group. Don't have a chronograph but should be between 1300 and 1400 fps. Coww+some tin no lead what so ever. Crimp it tight and you should be good to go.

[swamp]

All I use in my 45-70s are plain based boolits. No problems.
swamp

[Hickok]

You wont need any gas checks with 400 gr boolits. There is a good reason for this. Because in my Marlin, a 400 gr boolit above 1500 fps starts to get painful off a bench, the misery overcomes the joy very quickly.

I use the Lyman #457643, mine weighs 420gr with COWW.

The Lee 457-405-F works good in my Marlin also.

Size them at .459" or .460" for your Marlin.

[Maven]

"You wont need any gas checks with 400 gr boolits. There is a good reason for this. Because in my Marlin, a 400 gr boolit above 1500 fps starts to get painful off a bench, the misery overcomes the joy very quickly." ...Hickok

What Hickok said!

[williamwaco]

If you try a load that "Needs" a gas check in the .45-70, Just borrow a gas check from a board member.

You will only need one.


.

[Hickok]

Maven and William, I know you fella's are talking from experience!!!:lol:

[Blackwater]

Aw c'mon, guys! Even I, with my raggedy old frame now, can still stand a few 400's at @1700! After 10 or 12 rds., it starts to get to be less fun. I DO have a Pachmyr Decelerator on my Marlin GG, and that helps, definitely, and it's a full inch thick. Doesn't take that much to kill a widdle ol' whitetail, though, and to shoot one's best, we DO need to shoot more than 10 or 12 rds. I used to be the guinea pig for a buddy who got into some of the old BP guns, especially the old SxS hammer doubles, and some of those boys kicked pretty good. One, a .45x3 1/4" had double set triggers, and by that, I mean each trigger could be set by pushing it forward. When set, a breath would make it go off. I loaded it up, cocked a hammer, and was bringing it to my shoulder when it went off about 1 1/2" from my shoulder. Now THAT one HURT! I believe it had a horn butt plate, and I had a bruise on my shoulder and one on my cheek from that razor sharp comb (it was a German gun) for about 10 days. Very humbling experience, and if you ever see me around a set trigger now, you can bet your sweet bippie that I'll have the gun on target and my shoulder on the butt BEFORE I set the trigger. Once burnt, a lesson learnt!

[ericp]

I haven't found gas checks necessary in my Marlin with Ballard rifling up to 1700 fps given a suitable alloy. No experience with microgroove.


Eric

[richhodg66]

Not a Marlin, but I've only shot relatively light bullets with plain bases in my Handi and it shoots those fine. I use the Saeco 300 grain and Lee 340 grain bullets and load at Trapdoor levels with 5744. I don't see a need to go more powerful than that.

Gonna try some 405 grains Lyman 457193 I think. I want to try using black powder or Pyrodex eventually which I think will make gas checks even less necessary.

[Scharfschuetze]

I started thinking about the OP's question, and damned if I've ever shot a gas check boolit through a 45/70. That covers about 45 years with the old girl in probably 15 or so different rifles, so plain base boolits have been doing just fine for me. I also cast 'em fairly soft and use the old NRA Alox lube with the Lee 405 mould and the Lyman 457193 mould with smokeless powder. With black powder I use the SPG formula lube. It also works well with smokeless. I'm not really into high velocity, but loads to 1600 fps have not shown any real inclination to foul the bores of the rifles capable of that velocity. 9 out of 10 of my loads go between 1,100 and 1,300 fps depending on the rifle or carbine that they are shot in so plain base is all I need. The 405 grain boolits have always been the easiest to get good groups from and I have just a few proven loads that work in all of my rifles very well. .460" is my go to diameter.

I should add that all my rifles have or have had 3 groove, six groove or Ballard style rifling. I have no idea if my loads would work in Marlin's older Micro Groove rifling.

[longbow]

I had a '70's vintage Marlin with microgroove rifling and it never saw a gas check. I was young and foolish and recoil was "fun" so I was loading right to "J" bullet max loads with plain base Lee 405 gr. flat points and the Lyman 457124 385 gr. round nose. I liked that boolit and so did the gun!

Never had a problem with leading so anything at less velocity and pressure should be "easy" to get to work. I was so dumb back then I just cast, lubed and shot. No sizing, no slugging, no fuss, no muss. I guess I was lucky and got a Lyman mould that cast large because all I ever used was wheelweights and drove 'em fast for the most part.

If I ever replace that gun I will get a collar button mould, Gould 330 gr. and/or RanchDog 350 gr. and something around 400. That would do me for about anything I want to do... and all PB of course.

At 1500 FPS you should have no problems at all with PB boolits.

Longbow

[Thumbcocker]

You may want to lay in a few extra lube grooves from Waksupi for those hotter loads.

[williamwaco]

Maven and William, I know you fella's are talking from experience!!!:lol:

:veryconfu

[Grapeshot]

Years ago I owned a Marlin 1895 w/micro groove rifling. The best load I ever shot with a cast boolit was a NEI 395 GC cast in Linotype. Boolits were hard as rock and sized to .458 and Lyman gas checks and 45 grains of 3031. 405 grain J-word soft point on top of Elmer Keith's load of 50 Grains of 3031 crippled on my end and hammered anything it hit on the other.

[waco]

I have an Accurate 460-405V that is plain based. It shoots well at around 1500fps with 2400,SR4759, IMR3031

[Maven]

The attached photo shows a 10-shot group using a LBT ~460gr. PBFN cast bullet which I cast and fired from a Marlin Microgroove #336 .45-70.

[Crawdaddy]

All I use is gas checked boolits in my 1895 GBL. I haven't tried any PB's so I cannot offer any advice. I can say that I am shooting 2.5 inch groups at 100 yds with open sights. Im shooting 440 gr projectiles and really don't find the recoil objectionable.

[220]

Tried 9 different loads in my marlin with the NOE 460-405 in HP form Monday using 2 different powders.
Average for all loads for 3 shot groups was 1.42moa with the last group clocking 1546fps and putting 3 shots into 0.8moa.

[glockky]

I have an Accurate 460-405V that is plain based. It shoots well at around 1500fps with 2400,SR4759, IMR3031

That is a good looking bullet. I have looked at it several times. I just was just not sure if it would feed or fit in the throat.

[glockky]

Tried 9 different loads in my marlin with the NOE 460-405 in HP form Monday using 2 different powders.
Average for all loads for 3 shot groups was 1.42moa with the last group clocking 1546fps and putting 3 shots into 0.8moa.

That is some good shooting.
Is your mold plain base?
What powders worked best ?

[220]

That is some good shooting.
Is your mold plain base?
What powders worked best ?

Yeah PB Noe
Using AR2207 and AR 2208 hodgdon sell them as H4198 and Varget.
Adi have a bit of cowboy data for the 45/70 so easy to find data with cast.
The best load was with AR2208 but the best AR2207 load was also under moa.
http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders/single_action_rifle.asp?Calibre=45-70+Government+%28Trapdoor+Rifles%29

[krems]

Really good shooting. Every rifle is different. Some prefer gas checks while others shoot plain base just fine. If the bore has any roughness to it ill use a GC everytime.

[SniderBoomer]

I got the 460 405 fp from NOE. Great mold and plane base. Used 38.3g of 3031 w/ dacron and had a 1/2" group. Don't have a chronograph but should be between 1300 and 1400 fps. Coww+some tin no lead what so ever. Crimp it tight and you should be good to go.

+1 That is a great boolit.

[hockeynick39]

I have an original Winchester 1886 that I load a PB boolit for. She's still plenty accurate for being 123 years old!

Boolit design:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/46-400M-D1_zpslvezmfiu.png

Mold, brass, and boolits:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/Winchester%201886%20084_zpsquzo493c.jpg

The "old girl" and some cartridges:
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/Winchester%201886%20089_zpszbszfye6.jpg

Final chronograph target shot @ 50 yds with data (please don't use for trap door rifles):
http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums/y338/hockeynick39/Winchester%201886%2050%20yd%20Target%20III%20001_z psxa8wwngu.jpg

[trapperP]

If you try a load that "Needs" a gas check in the .45-70, Just borrow a gas check from a board member.

You will only need one.

.

I'll echo this - you can safely load for the Marlin with loads with a high "Ouch!" factor. You'll catch up off the bench quickly!

[waco]

That is a good looking bullet. I have looked at it several times. I just was just not sure if it would feed or fit in the throat.

It was designed to feed in the Marlin:)