Flux that attracts water to it when cool??

[Walter Laich]

We're getting one of our Cowboy shooters into casting and in offering advice--I'm full of that--'kinda' remember that there is a commerical flux that attracts water to it when it's cool and just sitting around.

I still have a spoon that I have to slowly dip into the molten lead to keep from splattering the lead because of the water trapped in the flux that I used with it over 1 1/2 years ago.

Can anyone remind me of the name or chemical composition so I can steer our new caster away from this?

thanks
Walt

[NVcurmudgeon]

Marvelux is the hygroscopic flux. It also has the endearing characteristic of building up a deposit on the inside of the pot, slowly reducing its capacity.

[runfiverun]

i still use and like it though
if ya want to start an discussion on this board flux is a good one.

[AllanD]

The residue inside your casting pot is just so EASY to remove.

Goto your local REAL hardware store (not a big box store) and buy a gallon of muriatic acid.

This is usually sold for concrete cleanup.

It removes the crud from the inside of casting and smelting pots on contact
with a fizzing foaming reaction.
The reaction is not unlike what happens when you put baking soda in vinegar.

Do this OUTSIDE!!!

Rinse well with water

DO NOT get muriatic (hydrochloric) acid on aluminum.

Acid removes the crap with no fuss no muss and importantly no lead bearing DUST!


AD

[HORNET]

Whatever happened to just boiling the pot out once in a while? Fill it with water (OUTSIDE, please) , plug it in and turn the heat up. When it starts boiling, unplug it and dump it on the nearest anthill. Knock it on the ground a couple times to get out any loose chunks and see if you need to repeat it. Cooks out lots of trash (sometimes), no acid to mess with, and annoys the bugs.

[44man]

The flux used to alloy antimony also absorbs water and has to be stored in a jar. My spoon used will do the same thing if any flux is left on it so it is best to wash it after. I had more then one surprise sticking it in the pot! :mrgreen:

[454PB]

More bad press for Marvelux. I've been using the stuff for 25 years, and my pots haven't rusted out (urban legend), I've never had a tinsel fairy incident (I preheat the fluxing spoon along with the mould), and the crud buildup can't be too bad, I haven't cleaned my casting pot in several years.

I've asked probably 5 or 6 times for all those that dislike the stuff to send it to me. The only bite I ever got was from Supermag, he sent me a whole tablespoon full.

[NVcurmudgeon]

We're getting one of our Cowboy shooters into casting and in offering advice--I'm full of that--'kinda' remember that there is a commerical flux that attracts water to it when it's cool and just sitting around.

I still have a spoon that I have to slowly dip into the molten lead to keep from splattering the lead because of the water trapped in the flux that I used with it over 1 1/2 years ago.

Can anyone remind me of the name or chemical composition so I can steer our new caster away from this?

thanks
Walt


Walter, as you are around this board for a longer time you will learn that the only subject as controversial as Marvelux is whether to use fillers with small powder charges in rifle cases! Either subject causes the same reaction as passing out NRA membership literature at an Obama rally. That's a good looking hat you are wearing in your avatar. It's beyond me why so many Western hat makers make brims turned up like Roy Rogers wore. Guess they never go outside, or maybe they did and baked their brains out.

[stocker]

454PB: I also heard the stories about Marvelux including a couple not yet mentioned : heavy smoke and flame ups. Then I started using it a couple years ago for indoor winter casting. Just as a test you see.

No rust in pot, no build up, no smoke, no flame, just does a good job. I did buy a couple of stainless steel spoons for stirring, skimming and measuring just to be on the safe side.

We do live in a fairly low humidity area and I store it with the lid on in the basement and it has not clumped or absorbed enough moisture to cause a sizzle on the melt.

As a precaution I rest my measuring spoon on the melt for a minute to drive out any moisture that might conceivably be there before sprinkling it on.

I know of a commercial caster that uses no other flux and tells me he's never had a problem with his equipment.

Like NVc said it seems to be controversial and if you ever get too much sent to you I'll take the excess off your hands although the 4 lb tub from Brownell's should last me a while yet so don't be concerned if you can't spare any of those generous offers.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

Although I usually flux with just a piece of candle wax, I've used Marvelux,as well, off and on for many years and never had a problem. Just as a precaution though when adding M and ingots for that matter (even though they are pre-heated) I hold an aluminum shield made up of 3-4 eight to ten inch pie plates stuck together over my side of the pot and facing/angled down....just in case fate has a surprise waiting for whatever reason.. Also use a pair of welding gloves as part of the equation. May be overkill, but better safe than sorry. LLS

[runfiverun]

hey 44 man
if ya run out of the pink stuff try a bit of marvelux, not quite as quick but does the job.

[Bent Ramrod]

Marvelux floats on the lead surface while it melts; I can't imagine whatever moisture it may have absorbed throwing lead around, if the caster is patient enough to have it melt before stirring. I have heard of the stuff catching fire, but I've never experienced this myself. Of course, the wax flux catches fire all the time, deliberately in my case to get rid of the smoke, so I would not regard an occasional blaze in the pot as a drawback.

I used to chip the deposit off the sides of the pot with a screwdriver. Correctly positioned, it will flake the deposit off pretty handily, without damage to the pot.

I tend to use Marvelux on extremely dirty lead such as range scrap with lots of dirt in it. After it is cleaned up, I generally maintain the cleanliness using wax. The main reason is the wax leaves a dry dust to skim off, while the Marvelux leaves a gooey liquid which can trap some of the lead in it.

[looseprojectile]

my marvelux self destructed the can it was in. Rusted to nothing in about a year.
What a mess. Never needed to get more. I took that to mean that it was corrosive. Don't need that kind of stuff in the shop as I have some nice tools there.
Life is good

[HeavyMetal]

I still have a container of Mavelux, a plastic container, and use it when smelting ww or mixing an alloy.

I try to do both in 90 lbs lots.

When I'm casting I use a flux I buy from Art Green. It doesn't crude up the pot Like Mavelux but it does smoke. I set up my pots in the outside fireplace area so I can direct that up the chimney with a small fan.

Marvelux has a place in casting but like everything else in the world it isn't perfect.

Adjust our useage as need is they way we have always gotten things done is it not!

[Walter Laich]

Thanks for the replys--may concern with Mavelux, and that is what I was trying to remember when I posted, is mostly about me forgetting to preheat the spoon before stirring the lead or whatever.
I live in Houston where the humidity does get quite high and water vapor is a fact of life.
For me it's nice not to have to remember one more thing as I'm casting.
Did cast 30# of .45 RNFP for my cowboy rifle yesterday--may sound like a lot until you get all of 27 bullets per pound. I cast in 30 minute or so time periods so I don't get tired and 'terminally stupid'
walt

[Three44s]

Marvelux has always crudded up my casting pots.

The hydroscopic properties don't matter nearly as much as all that crud to scrape off the sides and bottom of the lead pot.

And with a bottom pour ..... that CRUD can, and does end up in some bullets! It's just a fact of life!

Those who have not found crud down inside the melt .... have not stirred the alloy.

Fluxing is not just a "surface thing" ....... flux is to be stirred in for it to truely clean a melt.

Make my flux ......... bullet lube. I will take the smoke and stink to get good bullets!

Three 44s

[montana_charlie]

That's a good looking hat you are wearing in your avatar. It's beyond me why so many Western hat makers make brims turned up like Roy Rogers wore. Guess they never go outside, or maybe they did and baked their brains out.
I don't know if anybody ever earned a degree that makes him an expert on hat brims. But, I wear a western hat, daily...the brim is curled...and there is a reason for having it that way.

If you ever want to discuss the ins and outs of curled versus flat, I'll be glad to state my side...politely.
CM

[utk]

Montana_Charlie,

educate me, please! I think Western hats are the best looking ones!

[Alchemist]

I don't know if anybody ever earned a degree that makes him an expert on hat brims. But, I wear a western hat, daily...the brim is curled...and there is a reason for having it that way.

If you ever want to discuss the ins and outs of curled versus flat, I'll be glad to state my side...politely.
CM

This is gonna get interesting!!! [smilie=1: :Fire:

[montana_charlie]

NVcurmudgeon,

It appears my differences with your views on hat brim-ology has struck a chord with some folks...folks who might have become jaded with girl-fights on YouTube, or who can't afford (or are too intelligent) to buy the programming for WWE (and other ring, cage, and right-among-the-audience fight promotions).
Since I have no intention of drawing blood, I hope they are not seriously underwhelmed by my delivery.

My hat (the one I wear daily) is a Resistol "Missoula", a model that was discontinued many years ago. A 5X beaver, I found it on the checkout counter at a Salvation Army thrift store, back in '77, for a price of three bucks. As an Air Force troop, I had no real need for a cowboy hat, but we were living in Montana. On a whim, I tried it on...it fit perfectly...so I bought it.
When purchased, it was in extremely good condition, and (if I had the collector's bug) I should have put it on a shelf, unworn. The band is marked in gold with the name "Ario's".

Ario's Western Store was (until the late seventies) a landmark in Great Falls, Montana. It was certainly known state-wide, probably nation-wide, and possibly world-wide...even though it was considerably smaller than Shepler's (of Wichita) was in those days.
Considering it's condition when I found it, it may have become valuable to collectors, by now.

I have a nicer Stetson "Rancher" that I wear for 'dress occasions', but this old, dark brown, Resistol with it's 'bonded-edge brim' is my working hat.

Hat styles (if you visit western stores often enough to observe the changes) mostly seem to follow the headgear of the newer 'cowboy singers' as they become popular.
The rock-hard, flat brim - with the noticeably 'creased in' dips...front and rear...began appearing on racks shortly after the rise of (and I can't even remember the singer's name, anymore). That was early or mid-90's, I guess.

(For quite a while, those 'dips', especially the front ones, had a square, flat contour...kinda like a coal scoop.
Now they are starting to take on a pointy shape...like a cream pitcher.)

The hats at western dance clubs, on the sidewalk in town, and on rodeo performers took on that 'style' almost immediately. On the rodeo folks (except for the fashion-plate barrel racers) the shape usually only lasted long enough for the wearer to 'break it in' to fit is activities.

Along with the 'singer's hat' evolution, there is another 'style' modifier...found on the silver screen.
As the westerns got rougher, dirtier, and meaner, they were deemed 'more realistic'. True or not, many of those hats showed up on store racks. You can buy a Quigley-looking lid, a Hoss hat, a chapeau like Hondo, or one to match your favorite hero...or villain.

Some of these are found on 'real' cowboys (and I know some real ones), but they seem most prized by the CAS crowd. (No offense meant, Mr. Laich.)

The careful observer might notice that the bonded-edge brim and wide satin band is starting to come back in favor...especially in that last group. My poor old Resistol is on the verge of becoming the 'latest style'...once more.

That brings me back to my hat...

I did not put it on a shelf, but wore it whenever I left town to do some wannabe cowboy-ing on the ranch of a close friend.
My activities (in those days) involved both horses and cattle, and sometimes required rides of (like) ten miles, in bad weather. It was my privilige to be among men who actually understood the work we were doing, and who were generous with their guidance when I was 'behind the action'...or in danger.

By the time I got my own place, and enough education to run it, the old Resistol had acculumlated considerable grunge, but was still not holed, torn, or missing any stitching on the bonded edge. Since I (now) had earned the right(?) to consider it as my 'badge' of qualification in dealing with livestock, I decided to give it a good rejuvenation.

After vigorous cleaning with a 'hat sponge', it didn't look too bad. So, I decided to boil some water and 'shape' it to my taste.
I didn't change the shape of the crown, but I made the creases shallower, so the crown was 'deeper'. That lets it sit down on my head, helping on windy days. I steamed the brim out flat, then 'lowered' it at the juncture with the crown to make a more gentle transition between 'vertical' and horizontal'. That gives it a 'softer' look, and encourages rain to drain toward the edge.

Finally, I made a gentle slope in the front and rear so I can 'direct the drainage' during a rainstorm...and curled the sides (just slightly) to allow the fore and aft slopes to exist without that 'hard creased' look on the modern hats.

So, NVcurmudgeon, my initial 'style' would probably have pleased your taste...but, then came 'life'.

One fact of life is that wind will blow hats off, sometimes. If your hat blows off (more easily done when the brim is flat) when you are 'busy' with large animals moving quickly, you will probably grab the brim edge to clap it back on your head. That introduces the beginning of, or intensifies a pre-existing curl.
The more often it's necessary to hat up quickly, the more noticeable a curl becomes.

As the sides of the brim get closer to vertical, you start to notice that your neck has an easier job.

Picture riding up through a narrow, brush-filled coulee, with steep sides.
Your job is to chouse the cows, shaded up in the brush on the right-hand slope, up to the flats above the coulee.
As you ride by...below the animals...you are constantly scanning each patch of buckbrush as you pass it. You have to watch the patch contunuously as you go by, because the cows are only visible from certain angles.
And, you CAN'T leave any behind, or they will act as a magnet to draw the 'already choused out cows' back down from the flats.

To look upward to your right, at a fairly steep angle, requires you to crank your neck over pretty hard...and hold it there for lengthy periods of time, in this scenario.
Trying to look out from under a four-inch flat obstruction puts your left ear right on your shoulder. Curl some of the obstruction upward, and you feel less discomfort.

Now, it's true that a rider could turn his body a bit from the waist, to change the angle of his bent neck. With a modern hat, he would find that front dip in his way...just about as badly as the side look...and his weight shift would give his horse an unintended instruction.
Yep, you could keep the horse from moving to his right by using rein pressure, but giving a willing mount 'crossed signals' is seldom useful when he has a hundred other things to think about...like difficult footing on rocky slopes.

It can also be handy to look 'upward' easily, if your mount has just put you belly down in the dirt...and you want to see which way he is running.
(You think it never happens? Most 'old cowboys' are just about too crippled up to walk with boots on.)

The nice thing about a'working hat'...one that is not tempered 'rock hard' like the drugstore cowboys wear...is that the brim is 'manageable'.
You can 'pop it down' on the left side (like an Aussie hat) to stop the sun coming through your driver's window...or you can pop the right side down if you're horsebacking to the west and the snow is driving hard from the north.

You can lower both sides when shade is the prime desire, and the hat takes on the shape of a huge, clown-like fedora.
But who cares how it looks...out on the prairie?

Then, when you need upward vision...or you just want to enjoy some warming sun on your chilly face...a gently curled-up brim allows it.

That's my take on cowboy hats used for their intended purpose...not as fashion statements.

CM

[runfiverun]

and all my hat does is keep my hair outta my eyes, the sun outta my eyes and the brass
from my 92 from goin down my neck.