357 maxi in ar platform

[nekshot]

I am putting together some 357 maxi's for hunting restricted cartridge area and I again got to looking at my sons ar and there is no way it won't work if you are willing to use 5 or 6 round mags. I have to be told and explained very clear to believe it won't work. If they can do 7.62x39 then they can handle a 357 maxi cartridge. The only choke area might be the blunt meplat of most 357 boolits snagging up on top of barrel as they try to enter chamber. This is the result of day dreaming, not a genius having a revelation!

[vzerone]

AR's aren't real friendly to feeding long straight walled cartridges and I'm talking about something other then the magazine and feed ramps.

I believe the special dedicated AR lower by CMMG that takes the original AK magazines is by far the best AR system out there for the 7.62x39 cartridge.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Have fun with a rimmed case in a semi auto, jamomatic! ever seen some one load a 303 enfield stripper clip wrong?

[vzerone]

Have fun with a rimmed case in a semi auto, jamomatic! ever seen some one load a 303 enfield stripper clip wrong?

Generally that is true, but there have been some successful semi-auto and full-auto firearms that fired rimmed cartridges. Two that come to mind are the 7.62x54R Russian and the 303 British. Shucks 22lr's run fine in semi's and full-auto too!

[longbow]

What about rimless .357 max made from .223 brass?

I've been thinking about that for a bolt action for a while now but in my case, no toy money so just daydreaming.

It would have to headspace on the case mouth but that shouldn't be an issue. .444 rimless headspaces on the case mouth as does .450 Bushmaster, .30 carbine and many handgun cartridges.

It would be a wildcat you would have to make brass for but easy to do with available brass.

Just a thought.

Longbow

[BK7saum]

Yep. 357 max rimless out of 223 brass might be your best Avenue. At least you'd have plenty of magazines.

[pkie44]

358 Gremlin. :bigsmyl2::bigsmyl2: 358 in a 6.5 Creedmore or 7.62x39 brass.


http://www.bfgcartridges.com/358Gremlin.html

[rockrat]

Tried cutting 357 max brass to make it rimless. Had problems with the front of the case/bullet hitting the front rib of the magazine and throwing everything out of alignment. Mag was the drawback.

A rimless 357max in an AR platform would be great!!

[LAGS]

I was going to build an SKS in .357 Mag to see how ot would work, and not have to invest a lot of money if it failed.
But the .357 rimmed cartridge would feed better out of a Single stack magazine.
The recoil in a semi auto tends to let the cartridges jump around a bit and cause Rim Lock.

[nekshot]

Lags, I played with my sks one whole afternoon with 357 brass and with original brass opened up to 35 cal and in the end I concluded the mag was too close to barrel to get anything other than spitzer type bullet to enter. But playing with the ar and using a 5 round mag with only 3 in it a maxi looks like it should work. Obviously I am talking of a 7.62x39 with a 35 caliber barrel. I have a spare 35 barrel but it is a 12 inch twist and I think I would be better off with a 14 or 16 inch twist.I would see this only in the context of a hunting gun for restricted CF areas. I think shooting it single shot would be fine for me as a hunting gun. I do not expect those who enjoy alot of shooting to consider this an advancement of progress. But as a nice accurate platform for deer hunting I like the idea.

[tja6435]

They run .357 Mag in the 1911 platform, I'd love to have an AR rifle setup for .357 Mag/Maxi

[LAGS]

The 12" twist might work better if you shot the 180 gr Spire Point Bullets.
And those were the ones I wanted to use in the SKS.
Those are very accurate in my Marlin lever gun, but I have to single feed them.

[Mica_Hiebert]

What about rimless .357 max made from .223 brass?

I've been thinking about that for a bolt action for a while now but in my case, no toy money so just daydreaming.

It would have to headspace on the case mouth but that shouldn't be an issue. .444 rimless headspaces on the case mouth as does .450 Bushmaster, .30 carbine and many handgun cartridges.

It would be a wildcat you would have to make brass for but easy to do with available brass.

Just a thought.

Longbow

Ive tried to build one of these rounds, the case body is too small would work perfect with a 338 caliber bullet

[Artful]

358 Gremlin is about the best of the wildcat 35's for the AR platform at this time. You can't get the 223 brass to work as 35 caliber at full length. About the best of those was the 9mm Win Mag cartridge.
http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Pistol/9mm%20Winchester%20Magnum.pdf

[Whiterabbit]

what about less than full length? 35 cal spitzers tend to be in the 200 grain range anyways and are very long. To seat with the case mouth just below the start of the ogive would probably mean the cartridge is not full length anyways. The AR is supposed to only really handle 50 or 55 ksi anyways, so surely the right powder choice for a squat cartridge can get up to 50 ksi with ease too.

Still won't fit, even with a shorter case?

[Greg S]

Ether the 358 Gremlin or re-invent the wheel and go with a 30 Rem/6.8 SPC case and give it a small shoulder like the 50 Beuwolf. Granted, you could probably form a single stack mag interior to handle enough rounds for a hunting mag but rimmed cartridge feeding in an AR? They moved from rimmed cartridges in an autoloader for a reason.

Second, 357 max brass is getting scarce and God only knows if he is going to kick the maxi angels and have then xxxx out some more. Get a reamer made and call it 35X handgun hunter ect....

[nekshot]

Artful, I will only do this (turn this barrel for the ar) if I can improve much over the 35 Gremlin. I want to get a 180-190 boolit at least 22-2300 fps out of my 20 inch barrel. I have 30 remington brass here and that does not give me what we want. I have the barrel, my 357 dies will work, I have boolit molds for 35 cal and the primers which is why I don't do the big bore upper (the 45 and 50 cal)and be done with it.

[ubetcha]

I received a news letter from Mike Bellm awhile back about using 223 brass as rimless 357 max. There may be something on his web site about it. I haven't looked though.

[Artful]

I received a news letter from Mike Bellm awhile back about using 223 brass as rimless 357 max. There may be something on his web site about it. I haven't looked though.

What you can do in a single shot is not the same as an autoloader. Look up
9x45mm Morse cartridge was designed by Dan Morse as a better close range cartridge for the AR15 platform.

[vzerone]

nekshot why not a 50 Beowulf or 45 Raptor? Don't forget on the AR's you have to get the cartridge across the bolt lockup lugs before you even reach the breach. On the 50 Beowulf Alexander Arms elected to grind one big feed ramp at the bolt lockup lug area thus weakening it some as they eliminated one of the lugs. This coupled with an extreme rebated case and a cut out AR15 bolt face limits the round to low pressure loads, but it's good where it is at. The 45 Raptor on the other hand has a feed ramp built into the front wall of the magazine. On long straight walled cartridges for the AR system the rear of the chamber is very lightly radiused and over all the chamber is very slightly tapered.

[rockrat]

Someone did have 357mag AR barrels for sale at one time, but don't know if they are still being made.

I am going with the 358 gremlin also

[nekshot]

Gregs, I did check out the 30 remington and that would work great I grudgingly hate to use my brass because I use them in some of our carcano's for fun endeavers(silly I just need to get more). I need to figure how to accuratley cut the chamber and get the 35 neck reamed(info for a dummy on that one needed)

rockrat, do you have the gremlin running yet?

[357Mag]

Neckshot -

Howdy !

If the project does not pan out as expected, the .357AutoMag case has basically same case capacity as .357Max.


With regards,
357Mag

[vzerone]

With some of the rim/head sizes discussed here do you realize those will have to be put on an AR 10 platform? Even the 7.62x39 head size hogs out an AR 15 bolt to the degree it weakens it. Other alternative is a hybrid like the Remington 30RAR. Then..if you have to use an AR 10 you have way too far of a travel from the magazine to the chamber. This is/was a problem in the 45 Raptor. The 50 Beowulf got around it by a rebated rim, but that put pressure limits on it.

[Greg S]

Op, 6.8 SPC's daddy is 30 Rem. I think there is alot more 6.8 floating around fur sale than 30 Remington. Anneal, custom expander ect...