50# Lead Counterweights... possibly. Anyone seen these before?

[IPSick]

Local guy has these for sale. Says they're lead counterweights but doesn't know content. Local scrap has a scope, but I wanted to know if anyone has come across these before.

Thanks, all.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/anthony2210/01111_jJsAjzy0xxj_600x450_zpsekq3bynd.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/anthony2210/media/01111_jJsAjzy0xxj_600x450_zpsekq3bynd.jpg.html)

[Suo Gan]

How in the hell would anyone know what scrap lead content is? Just buy them like the rest of us if they are an okay price and alloy them as you need to.

[IPSick]

How in the hell would anyone know what scrap lead content is? Just buy them like the rest of us if they are an okay price and alloy them as you need to.

Who are you talking to like that.


the filter might not be able to read that but I can.
it won't be tolerated.

suo gan's post was not a challenge it was advice. [poorly worded]

[SSGOldfart]

They are pretty big for counter weights,what are they asking by the pound??
Btw welcome to the forum,as you have seen it can get a little deep around here sometimes

[IPSick]

Much appreciated, Sir. It'll take a lot more than that to get me to tuck tail, lol.

He's asking $25 per 50# disk. But has no idea the content. Just said they're lead counterweights.

[flyingmonkey35]

50 cents a p I und for near pure lead is a excellent deal. Buy them. Buy them all

[IPSick]

Well, that's the thing... no one knows what they are exactly. It's a bit of a trip to go back and forth to his place, so I'm trying to figure out if I buy one, scope it and go from there, or buy the lot and hope it is what he says it is...

[lwknight]

If you buy a few to test and they melt clean without any heavy sludge you can work with it.
Most likely made of whatever was available that would melt. Some might even have zinc in them but I would chance it at that price. At least a few at a time to test.

Nothing in the pictures show that it may not be good soft lead so its a good bet as far as mystery bets go.

[pretzelxx]

See if you can scratch it easy with a nail, then try a scrap piece of aluminum if you can... If either scratch, grab it allllllll!

[scottfire1957]

Local guy has these for sale. Says they're lead counterweights but doesn't know content. Local scrap has a scope, but I wanted to know if anyone has come across these before.

Thanks, all.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/anthony2210/01111_jJsAjzy0xxj_600x450_zpsekq3bynd.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/anthony2210/media/01111_jJsAjzy0xxj_600x450_zpsekq3bynd.jpg.html)



As far as I would be concerned, were I in your shoes, each and every disc might be a different composition.

It's a counter weight. No need for exact composition for that. Put the mold on a scale and pour till you get 50#.

We cannot tell by looking at a pic on a forum what the alloy might be.

Once again, analysis is the answer.

[runfiverun]

however if they were commercially made they could all be pure lead as that would be cheapest to purchase in bulk and produce the weights from.
I would inspect each disc to see how it was poured and for any signs of contamination.
then just buy it all and work the whole thing into one huge pile of same alloy that suited my needs.

right now 100% pure lead would suit me fine and would be perfect for your needs too.
it would allow you to purchase some super hard from roto metals and alloy everything into a nice known consistent big batch of alloy.

[WILCO]

suo gan's post was not a challenge it was advice. [poorly worded]
Last edited by runfiverun; Yesterday at 09:16 PM.



It caught me as being rude. Poorly worded or not.

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emoticons/eating/hamburger-waving-hello-smiley-emoticon.gif

[RogerDat]

Hit one of them with a propane torch along an edge or corner. If it flows off and runs or drips like wax you will know it is lead and not zinc or whatever. Tin content will lower the melt temp so if there is much of that it melts faster, drips and runs solidify a little less rapidly. Having a nice fresh piece of puddle to test for hardness is good, won't be age hardened after melting. Art pencils are the cheapest way to test for approx. BHN, spring loaded prick punch can be fast and provide a mark with consistent depth and diameter for ball park compare to known lead from home.

If it is lead then 50 cents a pound is a good price for scrap lead at least in most regions. You might find out what a scrap yard would pay him for it and offer more than that but less than his asking price for taking a bunch off of his hands. Knowing what a local scrap yard would charge for lead they sell the public can also be useful knowledge. Choice is between spending $200 on mystery lead vs spending that $200 to become a "good" customer with a supplier that has a consistent supply AND can tell me what I'm buying. If I'm getting a much better price on the mystery lead that wins but if the price is close....

[Mitch]

I have a weight similer to this.but it is 100lbs with a round hole in it.it is very soft I suspect it is pure.mine is something like 2 inches thing and 11.5 inches dia.i am with the others above if it scratches with your thumb nail it is likey prue lead.One has to remember that alloys like Sb and Sn have been expeicive for many years.so for just counter weights they are likely pure.good luck and welcome to the board and casting
Bob

[bangerjim]

If not Zn.....just buy it and quit messing around with the guessing game! Good price. Test for Zn with HCl acid.....will foam up instantly. Pb does nothing.

banger

[truckerdave397]

That whole setup looks home made to me.

[typz2slo]

I know it won't help now buif you do get them I can analyze a sample and tell you what's in it down to a 10th of a percent.

[IPSick]

Okay, Gents, I'm just going to roll the dice and head over to pick a disk up. I'll have my local scrap test it for sure, but I'll report back with some of the results from the suggestions in this thread.

[too many things]

those look like fish net weights. don't know where you are but bet on coast and most likely north. reason for size difference is where they were located on the net they were before zinc but could have ww in it to keep the {anchor} from coming out

[IPSick]

While I'm waiting for an address, here's an additional pic he sent me... just to piss off Suo Gan. Lol
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/anthony2210/Mobile%20Uploads/00O0O_bxV6P54T3ZH_600x450_zpsuujqimz4.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/anthony2210/media/Mobile%20Uploads/00O0O_bxV6P54T3ZH_600x450_zpsuujqimz4.jpg.html)

[RogerDat]

I always forget the acid test for zinc that Banger mentions. I torch test from time to time but that is because I have the torch available but keep neglecting to put some drain cleaner in the car. I forgot that I had some square counter weights such as you would find in the box on the short side of a RR crossing or parking lot arm. They turned out to be about like a good quality WW with a touch of extra tin. Maybe 4 Sb & 1 or 2 Sn or something along those lines. Nice stuff.

[CLAYPOOL]

I would think "Trot Line Weights" around here. I use the scuba diver belt weights a lot as you can double your line through or tie together for end weights on about 30 foot of lead line before the start of the trot line.

[IPSick]

Picked a disc up today. Guy said they were trolley counter weights. I don't know **** about lead, but it was soft. Was able to do this with my car key...

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/anthony2210/Mobile%20Uploads/20151220_153705_zps7mgmdrc7.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/anthony2210/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151220_153705_zps7mgmdrc7.jpg.html)

[Petrol & Powder]

The carrier in the center looks to be stainless which suggests some type of marine application but the weights appear to be far too clean and undamaged to have been in the water much.
Trolley counter weights ? I'm not sure what that refers to but that sounds like some industrial application. Maybe counter weights for a large sliding door? I really don't know but I would buy them all and go from there. The risk would be worth it to me.

[IPSick]

The carrier in the center looks to be stainless which suggests some type of marine application but the weights appear to be far too clean and undamaged to have been in the water much.
Trolley counter weights ? I'm not sure what that refers to but that sounds like some industrial application. Maybe counter weights for a large sliding door? I really don't know but I would buy them all and go from there. The risk would be worth it to me.

Living in Tijuana, you'd be surprised what we use.

[lightman]

Welcome to the site, IPSick. The big concern is that they may have some zinc in them. You can test for this with a drop of acid. I use the stuff that you treat swimming pools with, and some use the stuff that masons wash brick work with. If they don't have zinc I would make a lower offer for all of them. That pic looks like there are enough there to make a good score, and to make your wallet a little lighter! Once you get them home you can start trying to find out what they are and then you will know what to alloy with them for your needs. There is a member here that will scan them for you.

[Nose Dive]

Well....on the 'cautious side'.... buy one...smelt it and see how she performs...drop some muratic on in before you do and see if she bubbles up....drop the acid on spot where you scrapped the surface....

You know you do not have to have the PERFECT alloy to cast some 'fun time' boolits. And, if the mix is a bid nasty...read on this site...read the stickies and you can learn how to 'clean up' some bad alloy stuff.... I do all the time as I smelt 'road kill' obtained from many sources that do not claim responsibility for contents.....

If she smelts out OK.... go back and get all you can afford... what was it... 50 cents a pound? If it is 'bad' alloy....buy it a 25 or so....

I bought some counter weights at 25 cent a pound once...about 25 of them or so...little bigger that what you show here.... grabbed all the guy had and ran home to the smelt pot... put two in...came up on heat...guess what....inside the 'weights' were hand fulls of 2H carbon steel hex nuts!!...but the remaining smelt was pure, sweet, plumbers lead!... So I ended up with plumbers lead ingot for about 50 cent a pound and that is about what you are looking here and "I THINK"... that is a sweet price for good stuff when you can get it!!

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

[IPSick]

Well, the gun was on loan to their other yard too far for me to drive. The guy thinks is pure, but couldn't tell me for sure without the gun.

Ended up scraping 'cause this Has just become a huge pain in my ***.

But saw this while I was there. They wouldn't sell any brass to me due to company policy; and worse to know they melt it down.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/anthony2210/20151221_094836_zps2ifsss9j.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/anthony2210/media/20151221_094836_zps2ifsss9j.jpg.html)

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If the "trolly" weights scratch that easy, it'd be all I'd need to know ...I'd buy it all and consider it "near pure".

[IPSick]

If the "trolly" weights scratch that easy, it'd be all I'd need to know ...I'd buy it all and consider it "near pure".

I hear what you're saying, but I'm not going through the trouble of buying antimony, super hard, etc.

Wheel weight have become extremely scarce here, so back to the reloading bench I go. I'll leave casting for you Gents that have access to other elements, etc.

Edit:

Let me clarify - I had just started to dip my feet into casting when I came across 1200# of pure. I though I could just melt it down, flux it, and start casting. I didn't know (at the time), I needed other elements added to it. I was thrown off because I didn't know (at the time), WW contained most of what is needed for casting, and folks were just melting/fluxing/casting with those.

So for me, having pure lead serves no purpose. I can't get lead WW where I live, and by the time I buy antimony or super hard from Roto, my costs have just increased exponentially.

[runfiverun]

well you still have to option of selling it.
if you know it's good soft lead it would fetch 75 cents to A dollar a pound shipped.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

IPSick,
I totally understand what you are saying...BUT, everyone who shoots muzzle loader or some cowboy type of shoots, like to have pure or near pure, for their shooting. If you can find one of those casters near you??? southern CA maybe ? then you could probably do a swap. I've done a few swaps like that in the past. Some people have the opposite problem, and are unable to find soft alloys, and are happy to swap.
Good Luck,
Jon

[pretzelxx]

At that rate I would have called it an investment and sold all of the lead for $1 a pound and bought use able lead. 1200lbs is a good amount even if you get a return of 900lbs use able. Hopefully this stuff is better quality for you to shoot with!

[IPSick]

I thought about throwing 1% solder in it and PC, but I'm a little on the skeptical side to do that pushing 9mm velocities.

Edit:

Plus I'm paying ~0.45/#, so to sell and ship for $1/# wouldn't be worth my time.

[runfiverun]

some would trade lino-type 1 for 2 for the pure lead, each pays shipping.
it's not an uncommon trade.

[RogerDat]

Printers lead needs some plain to be useful so the mentioned Linotype for plain as a trade is sort of common. At a dollar a pound you won't "make" money from your 45 cent purchase price. So $27 of your purchase price for soft lead you don't need and some tape yields $33 profit or $60 you can spend on alloy.

So you sell 60 lbs. of soft lead which gives you the cash to purchase 30 lbs. of linotype which mixed 50/50 with some of your remaining soft lead yields some nice Hardball alloy. Or you purchase $60 worth of COWW's already smelted into ingots on S&S section. Any way you slice it your still only out the original $27 or $54 for 60 lbs. of hardball alloy. Plus maybe $13 in shipping.

[MaryB]

I use pure around 3.7 pounds pure lead to the rest foundry type to get 5 pounds(I think, I would have to pull up the calculator). Makes a great 9mm boolit! Can get foundry type on ebay for $2lb most of the time.

[IPSick]

some would trade lino-type 1 for 2 for the pure lead, each pays shipping.
it's not an uncommon trade.
But what is the ratio of lino to pure for 9mm? I've read 43203230754329 different recipes cruising the site.


Printers lead needs some plain to be useful so the mentioned Linotype for plain as a trade is sort of common. At a dollar a pound you won't "make" money from your 45 cent purchase price. So $27 of your purchase price for soft lead you don't need and some tape yields $33 profit or $60 you can spend on alloy.

So you sell 60 lbs. of soft lead which gives you the cash to purchase 30 lbs. of linotype which mixed 50/50 with some of your remaining soft lead yields some nice Hardball alloy. Or you purchase $60 worth of COWW's already smelted into ingots on S&S section. Any way you slice it your still only out the original $27 or $54 for 60 lbs. of hardball alloy. Plus maybe $13 in shipping.

Once it comes to shipping and swapping, I'm out. I wanted to be able to source or swap local. Appreciate the suggestion though, I did give it a fair thought.


I use pure around 3.7 pounds pure lead to the rest foundry type to get 5 pounds(I think, I would have to pull up the calculator). Makes a great 9mm boolit! Can get foundry type on ebay for $2lb most of the time.
I'll have to check that out. But I was hoping to source local. It's almost rage equivalent madness that California has ban lead WW.

[jonp]

Take these with you for a quick test:

156174

[RogerDat]

Local is good, but if I was buying I would go to swapping and selling here rather than eBay unless dealing with an eBay seller that folks here could recommend. Too many sellers on eBay are selling "foundry" that is not actually foundry type which is a specific alloy, not all individual letters are foundry. Or don't distinguish between Linotype and thin strip spacers. The spacers can be anything from plain lead to very hard, rich foundry alloy.

I find swapping, selling and shipping a bit of a hassle but not a huge one. Still I can understand why some would want to avoid it. People I have dealt with have all been upfront, communicated what was going on, and honest. Can't all be because I'm lucky. There is one other aspect of this stuff that sort of enters into it. I hate to see lead that someone can use for casting go into the waste lead processing and become battery terminals.

More than once I have bought printers lead or pure beyond what I need so I can feed some of it out to the rest of the casting community. One time I was buying some a bucket at a time as I had the extra money, so were some of the other casters who bought at that yard. One day it was gone, I asked if one of the casters had come in and bought it all and was told nope a smelting company came and bought all the lead they had on hand. WW's to printers lead to sheet lead all gone. Now I see the "good stuff" I will take money from savings to see it ends up in bullets, mine or someone else's. Selling 60# of ingots sent USPS helps reduce my cost, helps someone else get what they need, keeps it from going to waste. When sent to California or New York it counts as humanitarian aid ;-)

Not dogging anyone that does not want the hassle but selling five MFRB's of lead at around 60# is a decent amount of profit especially at the prices some are paying for it at yards or tire stores, and puts 300# of lead in the hands of people that can use it. Something to consider when you come across a big score is can I or will I sell some of this. That last one gets sort of tough, I sometimes struggle letting lead go. What can I say it is NOT hoarding, it is well stocked pantry, a really really well stocked pantry. OK honey I guess since the stuff in stacks is starting to fall over I could sell a little....

:bigsmyl2:

[IPSick]

Can someone throw this in the calculator for me, I'm mobile right now. Tha ks!!

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/anthony2210/20151222_094927-1_zpsnrqzpeg6.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/anthony2210/media/20151222_094927-1_zpsnrqzpeg6.jpg.html)

[Nose Dive]

U DUN GUD!! BUY ALL YOU CAN!

Nose Dive

Cheap, Fast, Good. Kindly pick two.

[Mitch]

Basic Rules for Hardening Lead-

For every 1% additional tin, Brinell hardness increases 0.3.
For every 1% additional antimony, Brinell hardness increases 0.9.
For a simple equation,
Brinell = 8.60 + ( 0.29 * Tin ) + ( 0.92 * Antimony )

Here is the formula from the rotometals site you use the 8.6 for pure lead.this is from the hardness cuve being a lot steeper up to 8.6Bhn.after 8.6 the curve flattens out.so it would be 3.54x.92=3.25 and .37x.29=.1.then the formula 8.6+3.25SB+.1Sn=11.95Bhn

I have found this formula to work very well for what we need.I think is is what the alloy calculator found here is based on.

I do not know what you are going to cast for but if you add1% to 2% tin for better mold fillout it would make a great all around alloy.Adding 2% tin would make a 12.5 Bhn alloy.Man you better go buy all of that stuff you can afford.And get to casing some Boolits.

Bob

[runfiverun]

3 parts lino-type to 1 part lead will give you super close to your picture there, only with about 1/2% more tin.
no calculator needed for that math.

[RogerDat]

Ain't that essentially old time good COWW lead? .5 Sn and 3-4 Sb is essentially COWW lead. This is what the alloy calculator uses for COWW lead.

[beanflip]

When lead deals come along like this.....take it because its going to be a long time be for another comes along


My was in 2009 about 2500 lbs of this content


Since then another in 2011 of 2100lbs. It been dry and no lead since.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

When lead deals come along like this.....take it because its going to be a long time be for another comes along


My was in 2009 about 2500 lbs of this content


Since then another in 2011 of 2100lbs. It been dry and no lead since.
I totally agree, I recently did a swap for 450 lbs of dimensional Lead. I don't really need any more, and didn't want to lay out the cash, but it maybe years before I get that opportunity again. But that is tough to sell a newbie (like the OP), who hasn't cast any boolits yet, who is just thinking of getting started, to buy a large batch of Lead.

[Black Powder Bill]

Well, the gun was on loan to their other yard too far for me to drive. The guy thinks is pure, but couldn't tell me for sure without the gun.

Ended up scraping 'cause this Has just become a huge pain in my ***.

But saw this while I was there. They wouldn't sell any brass to me due to company policy; and worse to know they melt it down.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/anthony2210/20151221_094836_zps2ifsss9j.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/anthony2210/media/20151221_094836_zps2ifsss9j.jpg.html)
Weekend street sweepings from San Ysidro and Chula Vista?

[IPSick]

Weekend street sweepings from San Ysidro and Chula Vista?


I literally laughed out loud when I read this. Well done. 10/10.

[MaryB]

Add a half pound of pewter for



Tin %
Antimony %
Arsenic %
Copper %
Silver %
Lead %
Weight
Est. Hardness


4.76%
3.66%
0.00%
0.07%
0.00%
91.5%
10.5
13.3




Or a half pound of "Silver solder"(96% tin 4% silver)


Tin %
Antimony %
Arsenic %
Copper %
Silver %
Lead %
Weight
Est. Hardness


4.92%
3.37%
0.00%
0.00%
0.19%
91.5%
10.5
13.1






Can someone throw this in the calculator for me, I'm mobile right now. Tha ks!!

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/anthony2210/20151222_094927-1_zpsnrqzpeg6.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/anthony2210/media/20151222_094927-1_zpsnrqzpeg6.jpg.html)

[OS OK]

That last close-up picture looks like they have hard edges…notice the top beveled edge…and I don't see the typical dents and whatnot associated with a large soft chunk of lead that has been kicking around for some time. Except for the dark one the others look splotchy as if they had a large content of zink. Take some pencils with you and give them the old pencil scratch test ( Look it up on You Tube for a quick tutoring )
Tell us what they are…OS OK

[MC One Shot]

Weekend street sweepings from San Ysidro and Chula Vista?

ROLMAO, I have heard. I have not been there for a long time but is this what is has come to there?

[ccjcc81]

How much does it cost to have lead tested like that?

[lightman]

Many scrap yards will do it,some for free. A member on here offers a test for a pound of lead.

[ccjcc81]

Good, thanks.

[IPSick]

Take these with you for a quick test:

156174

Those are only good for testing lead in paint and other such elements.


ROLMAO, I have heard. I have not been there for a long time but is this what is has come to there?

Between south/west CV, El Cajon, and East side of downtown... pretty much.


How much does it cost to have lead tested like that?

I got mine tested for free at a local metal recycling plant.


Many scrap yards will do it,some for free. A member on here offers a test for a pound of lead.

Co-sign.

[IPSick]

On to the next haul.

Found some KEEL lead. Owner doesn't know the content. Should I roll the dice? I'm feeling like a complete dummy for not jumping on the trolley weights.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h65/anthony2210/00n0n_bKgGKUWYVSJ_600x450_zpsnfgmhulj.jpg (http://s61.photobucket.com/user/anthony2210/media/00n0n_bKgGKUWYVSJ_600x450_zpsnfgmhulj.jpg.html)

[RogerDat]

Read the sticky on Art Pencil for hardness testing. Provides a quick and dirty check for hardness. After all the alloy composition is a means to an end, that end is hardness appropriate to the bullet being cast. Hardball and Lyman #2 are totally different alloys but same hardness. If that keel is dead soft then you know it will take something to harden it.

I have to say even if you don't want to sell it you probably should consider the sale price when evaluating the "value" of the lead you are considering purchase of. If you are getting lead that has a cost in the market here of $1 a pound and you can purchase for 45 cents that translates into darn good deal. Even if you don't sell for that price difference, the difference reflects "value".