You bet they're listening!!!!!!!

[oldred]

My son had loaned his Glock handgun to a co-worker and close friend for the weekend, both he and the co-worker have carry permits and everything was perfectly legal. The friend was unable to return the gun as was planned so he had his wife meet my son at a designated spot to return the gun, several text messages preceded this to arrange a location. It was all perfectly innocent and legal but when they arrived at the location cops came from everywhere! The joke was on them as everything was perfectly in order and legal, both parties could legally have this gun in their passion so the big gun bust was just that a "bust" but it could easily have turned into a nightmare!

Now the question arises, how the hell did they know if they weren't eavesdropping on the text messages? The bottom, line is privacy is a thing of the past and you can bet that whatever you say, no matter how innocent or supposedly private, is probably being listened to or read by someone somewhere, likely the words "gun", "pistol" or maybe even "Glock" flagged those texts and someone then read and acted on them! This stinks! This is supposed to be America and while I understand about the need to protect from terrorists and such our right to privacy still needs to be respected!

[C. Latch]

while I understand about the need to protect from terrorists and such our right to privacy still needs to be respected!


Choose wisely when you vote next year.

[oldred]

Choose wisely when you vote next year.


I intend to try but it's what we have to choose from that worries me.

[C. Latch]

I intend to try but it's what we have to choose from that worries me.

I hear you.


Nowadays I just assume that anything I say on the phone or type in a text or online is read by someone, somewhere. I try to talk about liberty a lot. Maybe they'll listen. :)

[enfield]

I'm curious, what was some of the messages they were texting that would get someones interest. if it was me I wouldn't text something like "I've got the gun, meet me at the corner of 1st & 2nd " that would just sound suspicious anyway.

[Bodean98]

Yet 2 muslim extremists can amass firearms and ammo and pipe bombs and not be detected until they decide to unleash their terror on an unsuspecting public? ***?

[Mumblypeg]

Yet 2 muslim extremists can amass firearms and ammo and pipe bombs and not be detected until they decide to unleash their terror on an unsuspecting public? ***?

Yeah.... that's what I was wondering too.

[Mal Paso]

Cynical answer? Cops read the intent, knew the "bust" was a safe place to be and still have a gun on the report.

[oldred]

I don't know the exact wording of the text but the point is no one else should have been reading it!

[jcwit]

I don't know the exact wording of the text but the point is no one else should have been reading it!

What makes you think texting is private?

We may not like it, but again it is what it is, till it is changed.

[MUSTANG]

Wake up, the Republic is dead and the Constitution is on life support. Supposed "Conservative" news channels such as Fox and Fox business are staffed with liberals masquerading as Conservatives, and they must have the "Fair and Balanced" by fawning over the Progressive/Liberal/Socialist/Communist guest, or the staff reporter who represents that side.

The Obama Administration is on a runaway train to eliminate private firearms ownership as rapidly as possible using whatever means possible, and the press of all forms are willing participants, aiding and abetting that effort. Every time they open their mouths, they are incredulous that someone would own a firearm. Same goes for our elected officials; representative government with Constitutionally controlled government officials is but a memory (perhaps with a few exceptions such as Cruz, Gowdy, and a hand full of others).

Why do you think they would stop at "Reading your Mail" (or electronic correspondence), or listening in at the Key Hole (on your private calls)? The "Feds" have been listening in for a long time. As an example:


Carnivore, later renamed DCS1000, was a system implemented by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Investigation) that was designed to monitor email and electronic communications. It used a customizable packet sniffer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packet_sniffer) that can monitor all of a target user's Internet traffic. Carnivore was implemented in October 1997. By 2005 it had been replaced with improved commercial software such as NarusInsight (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narus_%28company%29).



These and other program/hardware systems are bulk monitoring at the enterprise level. They are inserted into the stream of voice/data/Internet systems and are always on. Theoretically the Feds can only "Listen In" to a specific communication with a Judicially approved Warrant; but the capability is always there. This is the same concept/technology that Snowden told the World that the NSA was using. Funny; it has been "Known" it was out there for decades, but suppressed from the general public's awareness by deriding those who addressed it by calling them "Conspiracy Nuts".

How far does this go back? Well, as far back as the 1950's the technology existed to "Bug" a location by listening in on a room through the phone. Any location that had a phone in the room, could be monitored without having to place a bug in it through the using of some really sophisticated electronics that measures the line capacitance, and translates that to audio. Although the phone may be not in use, the capacitance of the line changes ever so slightly as the speaker and receiver vibrates from noise/conversation in the room, changing the line capacitance as they vibrate. As I said, very sophisticated equipment and not readily available.

If you have a cell phone or computer, with the right network access (and government computer hacking) they can be remotely turned on and your conversations monitored, or the video cameras turned on for use in monitoring. These also take a higher level of technical sophistication to accomplish, but this capability can be found in the various Federal Agencies and major Metropolitan/State Law Enforcement agencies. The "SPY TOOL" employed becomes your own electronic devices (cell phones/pda's, computers, etc..). These capabilities are not so widely fielded that each us are subject to their use, but they are out there; and the only thing keeping them from being abused are the interpretation of those who have the tools on their use without an approved warrant.

You can also be "Listened In On" through the use of sophisticated "Directional Microphones" that can pick out conversations from surprisingly long distances. These have gone from the hidden recesses of dark projects many years ago, to the "Toy/Recreational Market" of today ( see some samples at: http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Explorer-Bionic-Electronic-Listening/dp/B00168TQ28/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1450401973&sr=8-1&keywords=big+ear+listening+device)

Our Freedoms and Liberty are protected by the U.S Constitution (which includes privacy), but they exist only as long as our elected officials and employees at the Federal, State, and local level respect and protect the US Constitution (and the Constitutions of the States). Sadly, the majority of these people are either totally ignorant of what their oaths of office and the Constitution/s actually mean, or they are so corrupt and seeking of unlimited power they do not care.






(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_%28software%29#cite_note-ap-1)

[GhostHawk]

I figured this out years and decades ago, back when I was a flight sim junky connecting to a server in Dallas. I watched my connection regularly. Suddenly it is getting to St Louis and taking a big hop to middleton New Jersey before heading back to St L and near doubling my lag.

They hijack everything! Run it through filters looking for keywords.
Same is true of phones. We were listening to Drug Cartel phone conversations back in the 90's.

Any one of a number of words used could have triggered this, including gun, meet, glock, pistol, etc.

This IS the world we live in, wake up and smell the coffee.

[Tenbender]

The cops can track a legal gun owner but don't bother with a thug !

[Blammer]

time to make up a bunch of phony meetings... :)

[kens]

when the message goes over the airwaves (i.e. cellphone) nothing is private about it, it is broadcast over the open airwaves and it doesn't matter who listens.
I agree it seems like they are 'listening' however, anytime you transmit over the open airwaves, all privacy is lost.
Whenever you make a online purchase with smartphone & credit card, hackers can get your card info simply because you broadcast over the air.

[MUSTANG]

when the message goes over the airwaves (i.e. cellphone) nothing is private about it, it is broadcast over the open airwaves and it doesn't matter who listens.
I agree it seems like they are 'listening' however, anytime you transmit over the open airwaves, all privacy is lost.
Whenever you make a online purchase with smartphone & credit card, hackers can get your card info simply because you broadcast over the air.


Encryption was born to resolve this dilemma. During WW-II the Morse code transmissions between many high level commands of the US, Japan, Germany, and other countries were encrypted before transmitting. The infamous codes and programs "Ultra, Enigma, etc.." for example. Significant encryption efforts were implemented for the US throughout the Cold War and Vietnam War. We saw the emergence of encryption for the "Masses" with the evolution of the Cell Phone and Computer industries. Until the last few years, the US government forced all US Industries to provide the source code for all encryption to the US Government so they could engineer "Back Door" access through the encryption. As we saw the emergence of Triple DES and other technologies, the encryption methodologies have become extremely complex and quite difficult to break without the keys created between the two parties to the link; this is where the current hand ringing of the last few days for various Federal elected Office holders, non-elected civil servants and talking idiots of the press has come into play. Given sufficient time and computing power; any code can be broken - question is if the data is of any use after broken, or has it expired in usefulness. The Feds who want to peep through your windows, and listen at your key hole are demanding that all encryption on phones, computers, etc.. be configured to where they can see/hear it in real time. That is the crux of the discussion; and the root of the attack on personal Liberty and Freedom. Shall we accept the Government intrusion into our lives for reputed increases in public and individual safety, do we trust the Federal Government in this matter; or as a good friend is fond of saying: "Is this a Power you would give to your worst enemy?", for today your friend may be in power, but what about after the next election.

[TXGunNut]

I hear you.


Nowadays I just assume that anything I say on the phone or type in a text or online is read by someone, somewhere. I try to talk about liberty a lot. Maybe they'll listen. :)


Exactly! If it goes through the air or internet expect it to be intercepted. Expectation of privacy is quite misunderstood these days.

[Artful]

Exactly! If it goes through the air or internet expect it to be intercepted. Expectation of privacy is quite misunderstood these days.

But the thing is - with the amounts of data and by congress they are only supposed to monitor those who are suspects. Does this mean 1)his son is already on a watch list?
2) the coworker and wife are on a watch list or 3) any gun owner - NRA member - Former military vet - are all suspects.

[runfiverun]

number-3 is the answer.
there is a list of lists somewhere.
the patriot act is where all this started. [we gave up freedom for security]

anyway the good ol u s of a is bent at apple because their stuff is encrypted and they won't give up the key to the encryption code.

[MaryB]

Or it could be the fact schools monitor kids social media... including text messages in some systems... if a school asked for my kids social media passwords the answer would not be nice!

[Duckiller]

Oldred I think I would ask my chief LEO why his people were where my son was picking up his legal gun and how many more citizens he and his people are eaves dropping on.

[starmac]

What state was this in, If they did that here the cops would be in straight jackets. Several times a year I will make a deal for a gun over the phone, usually meet in the wallmart parking lot, a convenience store parking lot, even at the front gate at the base, to finalize the deal.
Either this happened in a state that is not considered free, or they are watching someone. Heck we even had a radio show that private sellers would advertise on, still do on the gun shows on the radio.

[Col4570]

There has been several prosecutions here in the UK of over zealous News Hounds listening in on private conversations and printing articles based on their eavesdropping.Whilst I am in favour of security services monitoring conversations due to the obvious threat from terrorists and criminals a massive clamp down is needed when the press get involved since it could have effect on influencing court proceedings.

[smokeywolf]

Anything you type on a computer or phone keyboard/keypad can and probably will be vetted by those who could just as likely be as much your enemies as they are your enemy's enemies.

All that you type or speak into an electronic device is filtered/vetted by internet/cell phone providers and gov't entities who eavesdrop on all in the U.S.

Also, the new "smart TVs" that respond to your voice commands have a microphone that can be monitored by anyone with the know-how and technology. So, your living room and bedroom conversations (if you have a smart TV) can now also be monitored.

Congress just passed a new bill that they snuck into the budget bill that allows them far greater access to most, if not all of your communications while at the same time preventing you from legal action against internet and cell phone providers for sharing your personal and personally identifiable information & communications with a gov't intent on spying on its citizenry.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

My son had loaned his Glock handgun to a co-worker and close friend for the weekend, both he and the co-worker have carry permits and everything was perfectly legal. The friend was unable to return the gun as was planned so he had his wife meet my son at a designated spot to return the gun, several text messages preceded this to arrange a location. It was all perfectly innocent and legal but when they arrived at the location cops came from everywhere! The joke was on them as everything was perfectly in order and legal, both parties could legally have this gun in their passion so the big gun bust was just that a "bust" but it could easily have turned into a nightmare!

Now the question arises, how the hell did they know if they weren't eavesdropping on the text messages? The bottom, line is privacy is a thing of the past and you can bet that whatever you say, no matter how innocent or supposedly private, is probably being listened to or read by someone somewhere, likely the words "gun", "pistol" or maybe even "Glock" flagged those texts and someone then read and acted on them! This stinks! This is supposed to be America and while I understand about the need to protect from terrorists and such our right to privacy still needs to be respected!

It must have been quite a weekend. No, the joke wasn't on the cops, for they still got a morning's salary in perfect safety, while meeting a better class of person. Perhaps the authorities concerned bring logic to the problem, and it might have helped if the texts had said "There is no problem about legality, since we both have permits and it is registered to me."

I think the ability to detect a keyword in the landline messages of undesignated individuals has existed since the days of relative innocence when only a plumber talking about leaks was liable to be caught out. Developments since have reduced, but far from eliminated, the class failing of modern electronic intelligence. The problem isn't getting data any more, but getting more of it than anybody can possibly evaluate.

Random keywording still happens, apparently multilingually, for my German mother-in-law's sister got a phone call from Homeland Security after they talked on the phone about my being in Saudi Arabia. They were extremely good about it, as soon as they realized that this was the 88-year-old widow of a member of parliament talking with her war bride sister of similar age, which apparently is not a threat. But I wonder what they would have said to someone less conspicuously innocent. "Are you a terrorist?" perhaps.

[jonp]

I am only surprised at some of the comments. Has everyone missed the furor about cops using Stingrays? https://www.aclu.org/map/stingray-tracking-devices-whos-got-them

[Mica_Hiebert]

What has me curious is if this is a big brother deal or did the guys wife freak out and call the cops and arange the "bust" since she was meeting some guy to exchange a gun... I dont know these people and I dont mean to attack any ones caracter I am just trying to look at any other options than big brothers watching... Dont get me wrong I do believe he is watching but he seems to be a little more reactive than proactive and seems fishy the department had a task force waiting to do a sting like this at the drop of a hat.

[BrassMagnet]

Yet 2 muslim extremists can amass firearms and ammo and pipe bombs and not be detected until they decide to unleash their terror on an unsuspecting public? ***?

Don't worry about it. They were being watched by the law, likely FBI.
Didn't their house get raided in a suspiciously timely manner?

[dragon813gt]

Encryption, learn it, love it, use it. There are plenty of programs available to use.

[4719dave]

oh ,,yes cant have people feelings getting hurt .
Yet 2 muslim extremists can amass firearms and ammo and pipe bombs and not be detected until they decide to unleash their terror on an unsuspecting public? ***?

[shdwlkr]

texting is like the old phone party line if your old enough to remember them, basically almost anyone can read them, there is no security

[tomme boy]

You guys watch too much TV. Someone overheard what was going on and turned them in.

Or, one of these people already was already being watched for this very thing.

[HB0708]

I'm typically not a tinfoil hat person, but that's freaky. My guess is either someone overheard part of a conversation regarding the texts and called the cops not knowing the whole story or they were the victims of a random screening. Either way, that would suck.

[fryboy]

i'll just leave this here ...and let ya'll draw your own conclusions ...

https://theintercept.com/2015/12/17/a-secret-catalogue-of-government-gear-for-spying-on-your-cellphone/

[SSGOldfart]

I intend to try but it's what we have to choose from that worries me.
Run for office then try to fix the problems Yep it's sad but true,we no longer live in the same world or country that we grew up in????????:oops:

[popper]

You all don't understand - Gov. has added another S to USA - now USSA. You got no clue as to how bad it is going to get SOON.

[oldred]

You guys watch too much TV. Someone overheard what was going on and turned them in.

Or, one of these people already was already being watched for this very thing.


Without giving away too much info here (we're being watched remember? :lol:), I can assure you that neither party would have any reason to be on any watch list, both are middle age upper-class professionals with no history of anything that should flag them.

[Hickok]

You all don't understand - Gov. has added another S to USA - now USSA. You got no clue as to how bad it is going to get SOON.You have that right. "Something wicked this way comes!"

[oldred]

You all don't understand - Gov. has added another S to USA - now USSA. You got no clue as to how bad it is going to get SOON.


I would like nothing better than to disagree with that but unfortunately I can't.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

as phone guy , I can tell you none of you have a phone any more , you have a digital audio communications device every word of what you say , every text , everything even if you have a rotary phone hanging on your wall that you speak into is turned into into data to be transported , that data can and is captured with such ease and can be fed into speech recognition software that can listen at a speed many thousands that of a human ear , capturing the data isn't the issue , processing it was an issue but is getting much better.

it used to be a line tap was just that now an entire office building can be tapped all at once with an off the shelf lap top , free software and a 5 dollar cable , I know because that is what I use every day , it is the only way to see what is going on with the "phones" anymore when people have trouble with them. let me sit on your network and I can have every call made in the building for the , give me your phone number or ip address and I can filter on you and play back every call you made or received for the day , and I don't need to be there to do any of it , i can access it all remotely and listen and diagnose call issues from half way around the word.

yes your being watched , you would think they could catch a few more of the actual bad guys with all that they have.

[oldred]

you would think they could catch a few more of the actual bad guys with all that they have.

Yeah but hassling the good guys is so much easier and less risky!

[Blackwater]

I've come to the point where I'm satisfied that folks are reading everything we say here or over our phones. With all the mischief and evil being arranged over the phones and the 'net, I think it's to our benefit that this is done. The only concern I really have is WHO IS USING IT, AND HOW THEY'RE USING IT. If it's used for political purposes, as I'm sure Obama would use it, and likely does, then it's bad. If people really dedicated to protecting the homeland from terrorism and terrorists, then it's good for all of us EXCEPT the terrorists. That it's going on is unquestionable now. And it's almost certain to continue, either overtly or covertly, as long as our ability to do so continues. That, I sense, is pretty inevitable.

So for me at least, even if for nobody else, it's much more of a "how will they use it" than it is a question of privacy. If we carry on a conversation in a public setting, we have no right to "privacy" when we do so in a public medium. Since I never say anything I wouldn't admit to in a court of law, I just don't worry about it.

The critical part is whether the "investigators" are really out to get the guilty, or whether they're willing and eager to rack up a record of arrests, even if some are solid citizens who just have a poor view of the powers that be at the time. And THAT is the part that only our votes can change, and why it's so very crucial how we vote in the upcoming election. Many seem so jaded and angry that they can't see simple Truths through the venom in their hearts due to their disillusionments. Those may well be the ones who vote for 3rd parties or just stay home and don't even vote at all in the upcoming election that could and likely may determine what we get in the next election. There is NO concept in the entire universe that could possibly even approach justifying letting Hillary Clinton reach the Reins of Power. If you think O. was bad, just WAIT!

Discipline is never a very satisfying thing for us humans, but it IS very often so crucially necessary, that it becomes the determinant of where we find ourselves going, and what we find ourselves having to deal with. I'm no model of discipline by ANY means, but things are now so serious and consequential, that even a person with strong libertine tendencies like myself can manage it. Only the most unruly and violently willful among us can attempt to justify foolishness now, at the juncture we find ourselves at this time. The only question left is whether there are enough of us with that kind of discipline to save the world, literally. On that question, I am personally not yet convinced that we have the simple humility to do what is necessary, and if not, we'll ALL pay the price for our foolish willfulness, including our loved ones too. And all for the sake of our "hurt feelings?" WOW! Can we humans be willful and foolish, or what????

[Mal Paso]

Well if they've listened to me for any length of time their mind is going na na na na na na na na.....

And you may see me tonight with an illegal smile
It don't cost very much, but it lasts a long while
Won't you please tell the man I didn't kill anyone
No I'm just tryin' to have me some fun

John Prine

[montana_charlie]

I can assure you that neither party would have any reason to be on any watch list, both are middle age upper-class professionals with no history of anything that should flag them.
Both have carry permits. That makes them 'special'.
When two 'special' people start communicating, that might qualify as 'interesting'.

[dtknowles]

Without giving away too much info here (we're being watched remember? :lol:), I can assure you that neither party would have any reason to be on any watch list, both are middle age upper-class professionals with no history of anything that should flag them.

So they never bought a gun from an FFL with a background check or have a Carry Permit?

Tim

[dtknowles]

I've come to the point where I'm satisfied that folks are reading everything we say here or over our phones. With all the mischief and evil being arranged over the phones and the 'net, I think it's to our benefit that this is done. The only concern I really have is WHO IS USING IT, AND HOW THEY'RE USING IT. If it's used for political purposes, as I'm sure Obama would use it, and likely does, then it's bad. If people really dedicated to protecting the homeland from terrorism and terrorists, then it's good for all of us EXCEPT the terrorists. That it's going on is unquestionable now. And it's almost certain to continue, either overtly or covertly, as long as our ability to do so continues. That, I sense, is pretty inevitable. .....................??


You said "I think it's to our benefit that this is done." you think it is good for us that our Government Spies on us for whatever reason they want. You think that what amounts to warrantless eavesdropping is ok.

I would have expected you to support the Constitution. Are you familiar with the 4th Amendment?

I know they do it but it violates the Constitution and they need to stop. Do you remember when they went after people's library records and that was a Republican President. The Federal Government is out of control and needs to be cut way back.

Tim

[dtknowles]

If we carry on a conversation in a public setting, we have no right to "privacy" when we do so in a public medium.????

If I send an e-mail, text message or make a phone call and it is to an individual that I have selected I have an expectation (not a belief, I understand they are violating my rights but the does not mean I gave them up.) that it is a private communication. I have already chosen who I want to communicate with and if I want more people to get the message I would add them to the distribution and I would know who they are, anyone one else hacking in is committing a criminal invasion of my privacy and if I could prove it I would file a suit. I think you must be part of the big brother nanny state control freak crowd, how can you consider yourself a conservative. Is your safety worth giving up your constitutional rights?

Tim

[dtknowles]

So why would a law abiding person want to keep his communication private? Because government workers cannot be trusted to be honest and even the knowledge of the activities of a law abiding person can be used against that person for personal gain or to harm that individual. You can be a goodly law abiding person and still have enemies and some of them could work for the government including law enforcement. What if you were aware of a Sheriff who was involved in some shady activities.

Some times I have to use encryption at work because of the nature of the info and policy but it should be an unnecessary nuisance for my personal communication and I feel that in our current nanny state of the nation using encryption for personal communication just attracts even more attention.

Tim

[AK Caster]

Entire story doesn't make a lot of sense.
Exactly what crime was going to be prevented? Tennessee allows individuals to sell pistols between private parties without requiring an ffl transfer

[shooter93]

Any time you THINK it's to our benefit that the government does what they please to insure "our security"....it is not. I was very vocal about stopping the Patriot Act and I remember very well being berated left and right for not being a Patriot and allowing the government to do what was necessary to " insure our security"

[Blackwater]

You said "I think it's to our benefit that this is done." you think it is good for us that our Government Spies on us for whatever reason they want. You think that what amounts to warrantless eavesdropping is ok.

I would have expected you to support the Constitution. Are you familiar with the 4th Amendment?

I know they do it but it violates the Constitution and they need to stop. Do you remember when they went after people's library records and that was a Republican President. The Federal Government is out of control and needs to be cut way back.

Tim

Ever hear of the word "compromise?" Compromises were made in WWII, that to this day are still panned. Philosophically, and ideally, they wouldn't have been necessary or desirable, but under the circumstances that existed at the time, they were intelligent solutions to the specter of a serious problem. We find ourselves today in a similar situation.

Yes, privacy is a premium commodity. Yes, survival trumps it, even if not by a tremendous amount. A temporary compromise in order to preserve the most important thing is not out of order nor beyond reason, SO LONG AS IT'S TEMPORARY AND CLEARLY DEFINED TO APPLY TO A SPECIFIC SITUATION. We've done it before, adn it probably helped, at least some. Today, the electronic media we have COULD help us or hurt us. I lie on the side of letting it help us. I don't give a fig who's listening to what I say here or on my phones. Some who use their phones to talk to their mistresses or carry on other affairs might be sensitive to things like this, but I'm just not.

I DO, as a matter of fact, understand the importance of privacy in a free society, and if we had the simple discipline to actually BE a truly "free society," I might look at it differently. A prig won't compromise at all, for ANY reason. I understand the reluctance to compromise, for it's not within my natural inclination to do so. However, even an old prig like me CAN learn a little IF he just keeps his mind open.

And yes, I understand that not every regime is trustworthy with some of the info that we are capable of gathering today, also. I just think if we'd use our knowledge and understanding, and a good, accurate set of scales to weigh the issues, we'd be a little more inclined to take a few risks once in a while, when it seems judicious to do so. I don't expect everyone or anyone to see it that way. And to a degree at least, my belief is based on an ideal situation that certainly doesn't quite exist under Obama now, so I understand the protest. We just can't seem to save ourselves from our own foolishness that allowed Obama to enter the white house where he never should have EVER been put. My greatest concern, far above the issue argued here, is whether we're going to let Hillary take it next. NOTHING anyone here can ever say, do, think or feel can EVER justify letting that happen. NOTHING! Those who say, "If it's got to be, let's get it over with NOW," are fools, in MNSHO, and smaller matters like the one argued here just pale in comparison. And I'm a man who learned long ago to work by priorities, because the rest is a constant struggle anyway, and can't be avoided. It works. Not perfectly, but man has never found any system that works perfectly, so I don't worry about it that much. In the end, it's the character of a people that determines what happens to them. If they're foolish and self-serving, bad things happen. If they're wise and balanced, good things tend to be much more common. I like the 2nd method best. I used to be a purist in these matters, but I've relented simply because I've recognized the futility of trying to make or create or sustain a "perfect system." And since no system can be perfect, they require constant and wise and shrewd supervision, and sometimes, even a little compromise.

My words and thoughts being examined do me more real good than harm, unless someone in the Obama admin or its many arms wanted to make a "statement" politically, and wanted to use my words against me to do it. In that case, though, it'd probably happen anyway, and might not be as tracable as if they'd not had access to my words here or on the phones. Issues CAN be taken out of proportion, and purposes forgotten and misused. If we ALLOW things to be misused, no system will prevent the bad things. If we attend to our gov't, things work much better, but even then won't ever be "perfect" in any individual's eyes.

The Founders knew that we'd have a less than perfect system, and had words to say to that effect. One, and I can't recollect who at the moment, said that only a people of good education and character would be able to hold onto what they'd given us at such great cost to themselves, and at great sacrifice intermittently ever since. If we throw it all away, the security thing won't be the reason we fail. It'll be our essential character and foolishness. So, I think my view is about as "fair and balanced" as one can get a view to be. YMMV.

[dtknowles]

I am not actually worried about people spying on me, I am worried about a country where people think it is alright for the government to spy on its citizens.

We learn what compromise gets you with the 2nd Amendment and I am not interested in going there with the 4th Amendment.

The government already has too much power and we don't need the getting anymore.

I am so glad you have our back on this one. (purple font not working)

Tim

[MUSTANG]

Compromise is the slow death of thousand cuts for Liberty, Freedom, and the Republic. The Progressive/Liberal/Socialist/Communist is never satisfied with the compromise they are given today, for they will be back for more tomorrow. We as citizens of the Republic MUST DEMAND, not request that our elected officials honor and abide by Constitutional governance. If we compromise; we are as low as the Progressive/Liberal/Socialist/Communist and they will achieve their goals for they will never COMPROMISE, they will only accept defeat when it is forced upon them - preferably with a life penal sentence .

[MaryB]

I hope I am giving the NSA a headache! I have a friend in TX and we are exchanging a couple passages a day from the bible encrypted using 264bit with a key generated from something only both of us know...

[starmac]

Did we ever find out the location of this fiasco??

[Boyscout]

time to make up a bunch of phony meetings... :smile: Blammer

Set up a bunch of real meetings and swap copies of the US Constitution.

[Blackwater]

I understand the concerns for our liberties fully, and am not unmindful of the potential for abuse for political purposes. It all depends on who's in power, and what they decide to use the power for. It's very much like the little red button that controls our nukes. A good man on the button, and we have security. A madman and .... well, you know. It's really no different with the info mining situation. What would be the motivation for such a massively huge amount of info to not be used for our security? Yes, there's potentiallee there, but I think anyone using it for nefarious purposes should be liable if and when caught at it. That includes Presidents, too! Keep that provision in the law, and it'd at least let our warfighters get the advance info they need, and keep the abusers very leery of what they want to do.

For every action, there's a counter-reaction, IF we'll jsut use and control them. I think it could be done. If that makes me crazy, so be it. If the essential character of our nation and leaders has gotten THAT bad, that we can't or won't do what's really necessary now, then we're lost anyway, and the rest is just a formality.

We cannot eliminate all danger to our freedoms, but heck! We don't even TRY to maintain them any more, so why all the emotion about something that CAN actually benefit us? I may not be quite as crazy as some think ..... maybe.

[pressonregardless]

Choose wisely when you vote next year.

Americans blew their chance to return to a Constitutional government the last 2 election cycles.

Who do you recommend ?

STINGRAYS (https://theintercept.com/2015/12/17/a-secret-catalogue-of-government-gear-for-spying-on-your-cellphone/)

A Secret Catalogue of Government Gear for Spying on Your Cellphone (https://theintercept.com/2015/12/17/a-secret-catalogue-of-government-gear-for-spying-on-your-cellphone/)


https://theintercept.com/2015/12/17/a-secret-catalogue-of-government-gear-for-spying-on-your-cellphone/

[oldred]

Entire story doesn't make a lot of sense.
Exactly what crime was going to be prevented? Tennessee allows individuals to sell pistols between private parties without requiring an ffl transfer


If it made sense I probably would not have mentioned it! Maybe they were thinking of a possible connection to something that had happened recently? Who knows but the point was that SOMEBODY WAS LISTENING TO A PRIVATE CALL, not that they acted on it. The fact that it turned out to be a non-event as far as any charges placed shows that you are correct in that no laws were broken, but again that's not the point! Believe me, it happened!


:EDIT, That should have been private text messages, not private call

[Ickisrulz]

You guys watch too much TV. Someone overheard what was going on and turned them in.

Or, one of these people already was already being watched for this very thing.

This is what I was thinking while reading through the thread. People give the government too much credit. When you get right down to it, the government is horrible at most things. Listing to private conversations, interagency data sharing, etc. are no different. These people in California a couple weeks ago are just one example of how good the government is.

[Four-Sixty]

But the thing is - with the amounts of data and by congress they are only supposed to monitor those who are suspects. Does this mean 1)his son is already on a watch list?
2) the coworker and wife are on a watch list or 3) any gun owner - NRA member - Former military vet - are all suspects.

This is what I am thinking. Someone involved was already targeted for monitoring. That person could have been targeted by mistake to.

[MUSTANG]

If it made sense I probably would not have mentioned it! Maybe they were thinking of a possible connection to something that had happened recently? Who knows but the point was that SOMEBODY WAS LISTENING TO A PRIVATE CALL, not that they acted on it. The fact that it turned out to be a non-event as far as any charges placed shows that you are correct in that no laws were broken, but again that's not the point! Believe me, it happened!


:EDIT, That should have been private text messages, not private call


INCORRECT! If there was no Judicial "Search Warrant" issued to monitor the text/Phone call/Internet-E-mail then a law was broken. The law broken was the US Constitution, the foundation for ALL Law in the United States.

[flint45]

I have begun to be very careful of what I type and say thease days!

[fryboy]

INCORRECT! If there was no Judicial "Search Warrant" issued to monitor the text/Phone call/Internet-E-mail then a law was broken. The law broken was the US Constitution, the foundation for ALL Law in the United States.

Does it seem like TPTB care about laws ? I mean laws are only for the sheeple not the supposed sheepdawgs or Shepard's ....

[Blackwater]

You said "I think it's to our benefit that this is done." you think it is good for us that our Government Spies on us for whatever reason they want. You think that what amounts to warrantless eavesdropping is ok.

I would have expected you to support the Constitution. Are you familiar with the 4th Amendment?

I know they do it but it violates the Constitution and they need to stop. Do you remember when they went after people's library records and that was a Republican President. The Federal Government is out of control and needs to be cut way back.

Tim

With the sheer wt. of the volume, the only thing they CAN do is "mine" it with search bots that look for key words, etc. I don't see that as much of a threat to me, though of course, that all depends on who's using it and what for. If they've bot a bead on me, they've probably had it for years, so it really doesn't change much at all. And as to being "careful" about what I say, maybe I should care more about that, but I just can't bring myself to really do that. Maybe I'm daft, but reason seems to indicate that the sheer amount of phone calls that would be monitored prevents any real analysis of them. And as to people using them for heinous purposes, they'd probably do that anyway, with or without a warrant. Gov't can, when it wants, do all sorts of things, and can create all sorts of reasons to get warrants, etc. to do it with, so denying ourselves the benefits such surveillance could bring really doesn't change much, except our perceptions. If we're spied on without our knowing it, we feel good. If we even THINK they might be doing it, we get our panties all in a wad.

The communications we have today were never meant to be covered by the Constitution, which was written WAY before the technologies we have now. The principles involved were iron clad for their time, but now, if anyone really WANTS to spy on us, they can, and likely will, without our even knowing about it. It may well be better that we know they ARE doing it, as opposed to having it done without our realizing it. I can't think of anything I've said in the past 20 years or so that I wouldn't say to Obama's face, or any of his lackies, but I guess I'm a bit different about things like that. Respecting the person in office BECAUSE of his office goes only just so far, and I'm afraid I'd say exactly what I think of him were we to ever come face to face. But maybe that's just me?

[dtknowles]

With the sheer wt. of the volume, the only thing they CAN do is "mine" it with search bots that look for key words, etc. I don't see that as much of a threat to me, though of course, that all depends on who's using it and what for. If they've bot a bead on me, they've probably had it for years, so it really doesn't change much at all. And as to being "careful" about what I say, maybe I should care more about that, but I just can't bring myself to really do that. Maybe I'm daft, but reason seems to indicate that the sheer amount of phone calls that would be monitored prevents any real analysis of them. And as to people using them for heinous purposes, they'd probably do that anyway, with or without a warrant. Gov't can, when it wants, do all sorts of things, and can create all sorts of reasons to get warrants, etc. to do it with, so denying ourselves the benefits such surveillance could bring really doesn't change much, except our perceptions. If we're spied on without our knowing it, we feel good. If we even THINK they might be doing it, we get our panties all in a wad.

The communications we have today were never meant to be covered by the Constitution, which was written WAY before the technologies we have now. The principles involved were iron clad for their time, but now, if anyone really WANTS to spy on us, they can, and likely will, without our even knowing about it. It may well be better that we know they ARE doing it, as opposed to having it done without our realizing it. I can't think of anything I've said in the past 20 years or so that I wouldn't say to Obama's face, or any of his lackies, but I guess I'm a bit different about things like that. Respecting the person in office BECAUSE of his office goes only just so far, and I'm afraid I'd say exactly what I think of him were we to ever come face to face. But maybe that's just me?

The threat is not so much personal (although someday it could be) as it is a threat to the Constitution and the 4th amendment. Give them an inch and they will take a mile.

Tim

[MaryB]

words to avoid....


Drill
Exercise
Cops
Law enforcement
Authorities
Disaster assistance
Disaster management
DNDO (Domestic Nuclear Detection Office)
National preparedness
Mitigation
Prevention
Response
Recovery
Dirty Bomb
Domestic nuclear detection
Emergency management
Emergency response
First responder
Homeland security
Maritime domain awareness (MDA)
National preparedness initiative
Militia
Shooting
Shots fired
Evacuation
Deaths
Hostage
Explosion (explosive)
Police
Disaster medical assistance team (DMAT)
Organized crime
Gangs
National security
State of emergency
Security
Breach
Threat
Standoff
SWAT
Screening
Lockdown
Bomb (squad or threat)
Crash
Looting
Riot
Emergency Landing
Pipe bomb
Incident
Facility
Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
Coast Guard (USCG)
Customs and Border Protection (CBP)
Border Patrol
Secret Service (USSS)
National Operations Center (NOC)
Homeland Defense
Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE)
Agent
Task Force
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
Fusion Center
Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA)
Secure Border Initiative (SBI)
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF)
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS)
Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS)
Transportation Security Administration (TSA)
Air Marshal
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
National Guard
Red Cross
United Nations (UN)
Domestic Security
Assassination
Attack
Hazmat
Nuclear
Chemical Spill
Suspicious package/device
Toxic
National laboratory
Nuclear facility
Nuclear threat
Cloud
Plume
Radiation
Radioactive
Leak
Biological infection (or event)
Chemical
Chemical burn
Biological
Epidemic
Hazardous
Hazardous material incident
Industrial spill
Infection
Powder (white)
Gas
Spillover
Anthrax
Blister agent
Exposure
Burn
Nerve agent
Ricin
Sarin
North Korea
Outbreak
Contamination
Exposure
Virus
Evacuation
Bacteria
Recall
Ebola
Food Poisoning
Foot and Mouth (FMD)
H5N1
Avian
Flu
Salmonella
Small Pox
Plague
Human to human
Human to ANIMAL
Influenza
Center for Disease Control (CDC)
Drug Administration (FDA)
Public Health
Toxic
Agro Terror
Tuberculosis (TB)
Agriculture
Listeria
Symptoms
Mutation
Resistant
Antiviral
Wave
Pandemic
Infection
Water/air borne
Sick
Swine
Pork
Strain
Quarantine
H1N1
Vaccine
Tamiflu
Norvo Virus
Epidemic
World Health Organization (WHO and components)
Viral Hemorrhagic Fever
E. Coli
Infrastructure security
Airport
CIKR (Critical Infrastructure & Key Resources)
AMTRAK
Collapse
Computer infrastructure
Communications infrastructure
Telecommunications
Critical infrastructure
National infrastructure
Metro
WMATA
Airplane (and derivatives)
Chemical fire
Subway
BART
MARTA
Port Authority
NBIC (National Biosurveillance Integration Center)
Transportation security
Grid
Power
Smart
Body scanner
Electric
Failure or outage
Black out
Brown out
Port
Dock
Bridge
Canceled
Delays
Service disruption
Power lines
Drug cartel
Violence
Gang
Drug
Narcotics
Cocaine
Marijuana
Heroin
Border
Mexico
Cartel
Southwest
Juarez
Sinaloa
Tijuana
Torreon
Yuma
Tucson
Decapitated
U.S. Consulate
Consular
El Paso
Fort Hancock
San Diego
Ciudad Juarez
Nogales
Sonora
Colombia
Mara salvatrucha
MS13 or MS-13
Drug war
Mexican army
Methamphetamine
Cartel de Golfo
Gulf Cartel
La Familia
Reynose
Nuevo Leon
Narcos
Narco banners (Spanish equivalents)
Los Zetas
Shootout
Execution
Gunfight
Trafficking
Kidnap
Calderon
Reyosa
Bust
Tamaulipas
Meth Lab
Drug trade
Illegal immigrants
Smuggling (smugglers)
Matamoros
Michoacana
Guzman
Arellano-Felix
Beltran-Leyva
Barrio Azteca
Artistics Assassins
Mexicles
New Federation
Terrorism
Al Queda (all spellings)
Terror
Attack
Iraq
Afghanistan
Iran
Pakistan
Agro
Environmental terrorist
Eco terrorism
Conventional weapon
Target
Weapons grade
Dirty bomb
Enriched
Nuclear
Chemical weapon
Biological weapon
Ammonium nitrate
Improvised explosive device
IED (Improvised Explosive Device)
Abu Sayyaf
Hamas
FARC (Armed Revolutionary Forces Colombia)
IRA (Irish Republican Army)
ETA (Euskadi ta Askatasuna)
Basque Separatists
Hezbollah
Tamil Tiger
PLF (Palestine Liberation Front)
PLO (Palestine Libration Organization)
Car bomb
Jihad
Taliban
Weapons cache
Suicide bomber
Suicide attack
Suspicious substance
AQAP (Al Qaeda Arabian Peninsula)
AQIM (Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb)
TTP (Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan)
Yemen
Pirates
Extremism
Somalia
Nigeria
Radicals
Al-Shabaab
Home grown
Plot
Nationalist
Recruitment
Fundamentalism
Islamist
Emergency
Hurricane
Tornado
Twister
Tsunami
Earthquake
Tremor
Flood
Storm
Crest
Temblor
Extreme weather
Forest fire
Brush fire
Ice
Stranded/Stuck
Help
Hail
Wildfire
Tsunami Warning Center
Magnitude
Avalanche
Typhoon
Shelter-in-place
Disaster
Snow
Blizzard
Sleet
Mud slide or Mudslide
Erosion
Power outage
Brown out
Warning
Watch
Lightening
Aid
Relief
Closure
Interstate
Burst
Emergency Broadcast System
Cyber security
Botnet
DDOS (dedicated denial of service)
Denial of service
Malware
Virus
Trojan
Keylogger
Cyber Command
2600
Spammer
Phishing
Rootkit
Phreaking
Cain and abel
Brute forcing
Mysql injection
Cyber attack
Cyber terror
Hacker
China
Conficker
Worm
Scammers
Social media

So don't talk about things like I did the other night, power lines arcing and maybe going to fail

[mold maker]

Man. That eliminates most of my conversations. What else is there to talk about. Might as well take up knitting.

[toallmy]

:not listening:Well at least thay are finally listening to the people , that pay their salary. If thay want to know what I am thinking , just ask I'd be glad to tell them.

[MUSTANG]

Ohhhhhhh Nooooooo!!!! At least 25% of those words are on my Resume. Maybe that's why after retiring twice no one is interested in talking to me about going back to work.

[Geezer in NH]

words to avoid....


Drill
Exercise
Cops
Law enforcement
Authorities
Disaster assistance
Disaster management
DNDO (Domestic Nuclear Detection Office)
National preparedness
Mitigation
Prevention
Response
Recovery
Dirty Bomb
Domestic nuclear detection
Emergency management
Emergency response
First responder
Homeland security
Maritime domain awareness (MDA)
National preparedness initiative
Militia
Shooting
Shots fired
Evacuation
Deaths
Hostage
Explosion (explosive)
Police
Disaster medical assistance team (DMAT)
Organized crime
Gangs
National security
State of emergency
Security
Breach
Threat
Standoff
SWAT
Screening
Lockdown
Bomb (squad or threat)
Crash
Looting
Riot
Emergency Landing
Pipe bomb
Incident
Facility
Department of Homeland Security (DHS)
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
Coast Guard (USCG)
Customs and Border Protection (CBP)
Border Patrol
Secret Service (USSS)
National Operations Center (NOC)
Homeland Defense
Immigration Customs Enforcement (ICE)
Agent
Task Force
Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
Fusion Center
Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA)
Secure Border Initiative (SBI)
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)
Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (ATF)
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS)
Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS)
Transportation Security Administration (TSA)
Air Marshal
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
National Guard
Red Cross
United Nations (UN)
Domestic Security
Assassination
Attack
Hazmat
Nuclear
Chemical Spill
Suspicious package/device
Toxic
National laboratory
Nuclear facility
Nuclear threat
Cloud
Plume
Radiation
Radioactive
Leak
Biological infection (or event)
Chemical
Chemical burn
Biological
Epidemic
Hazardous
Hazardous material incident
Industrial spill
Infection
Powder (white)
Gas
Spillover
Anthrax
Blister agent
Exposure
Burn
Nerve agent
Ricin
Sarin
North Korea
Outbreak
Contamination
Exposure
Virus
Evacuation
Bacteria
Recall
Ebola
Food Poisoning
Foot and Mouth (FMD)
H5N1
Avian
Flu
Salmonella
Small Pox
Plague
Human to human
Human to ANIMAL
Influenza
Center for Disease Control (CDC)
Drug Administration (FDA)
Public Health
Toxic
Agro Terror
Tuberculosis (TB)
Agriculture
Listeria
Symptoms
Mutation
Resistant
Antiviral
Wave
Pandemic
Infection
Water/air borne
Sick
Swine
Pork
Strain
Quarantine
H1N1
Vaccine
Tamiflu
Norvo Virus
Epidemic
World Health Organization (WHO and components)
Viral Hemorrhagic Fever
E. Coli
Infrastructure security
Airport
CIKR (Critical Infrastructure & Key Resources)
AMTRAK
Collapse
Computer infrastructure
Communications infrastructure
Telecommunications
Critical infrastructure
National infrastructure
Metro
WMATA
Airplane (and derivatives)
Chemical fire
Subway
BART
MARTA
Port Authority
NBIC (National Biosurveillance Integration Center)
Transportation security
Grid
Power
Smart
Body scanner
Electric
Failure or outage
Black out
Brown out
Port
Dock
Bridge
Canceled
Delays
Service disruption
Power lines
Drug cartel
Violence
Gang
Drug
Narcotics
Cocaine
Marijuana
Heroin
Border
Mexico
Cartel
Southwest
Juarez
Sinaloa
Tijuana
Torreon
Yuma
Tucson
Decapitated
U.S. Consulate
Consular
El Paso
Fort Hancock
San Diego
Ciudad Juarez
Nogales
Sonora
Colombia
Mara salvatrucha
MS13 or MS-13
Drug war
Mexican army
Methamphetamine
Cartel de Golfo
Gulf Cartel
La Familia
Reynose
Nuevo Leon
Narcos
Narco banners (Spanish equivalents)
Los Zetas
Shootout
Execution
Gunfight
Trafficking
Kidnap
Calderon
Reyosa
Bust
Tamaulipas
Meth Lab
Drug trade
Illegal immigrants
Smuggling (smugglers)
Matamoros
Michoacana
Guzman
Arellano-Felix
Beltran-Leyva
Barrio Azteca
Artistics Assassins
Mexicles
New Federation
Terrorism
Al Queda (all spellings)
Terror
Attack
Iraq
Afghanistan
Iran
Pakistan
Agro
Environmental terrorist
Eco terrorism
Conventional weapon
Target
Weapons grade
Dirty bomb
Enriched
Nuclear
Chemical weapon
Biological weapon
Ammonium nitrate
Improvised explosive device
IED (Improvised Explosive Device)
Abu Sayyaf
Hamas
FARC (Armed Revolutionary Forces Colombia)
IRA (Irish Republican Army)
ETA (Euskadi ta Askatasuna)
Basque Separatists
Hezbollah
Tamil Tiger
PLF (Palestine Liberation Front)
PLO (Palestine Libration Organization)
Car bomb
Jihad
Taliban
Weapons cache
Suicide bomber
Suicide attack
Suspicious substance
AQAP (Al Qaeda Arabian Peninsula)
AQIM (Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb)
TTP (Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan)
Yemen
Pirates
Extremism
Somalia
Nigeria
Radicals
Al-Shabaab
Home grown
Plot
Nationalist
Recruitment
Fundamentalism
Islamist
Emergency
Hurricane
Tornado
Twister
Tsunami
Earthquake
Tremor
Flood
Storm
Crest
Temblor
Extreme weather
Forest fire
Brush fire
Ice
Stranded/Stuck
Help
Hail
Wildfire
Tsunami Warning Center
Magnitude
Avalanche
Typhoon
Shelter-in-place
Disaster
Snow
Blizzard
Sleet
Mud slide or Mudslide
Erosion
Power outage
Brown out
Warning
Watch
Lightening
Aid
Relief
Closure
Interstate
Burst
Emergency Broadcast System
Cyber security
Botnet
DDOS (dedicated denial of service)
Denial of service
Malware
Virus
Trojan
Keylogger
Cyber Command
2600
Spammer
Phishing
Rootkit
Phreaking
Cain and abel
Brute forcing
Mysql injection
Cyber attack
Cyber terror
Hacker
China
Conficker
Worm
Scammers
Social media

So don't talk about things like I did the other night, power lines arcing and maybe going to fail
Thanks for the list I just spammed my email list with it

[oldred]

Maybe I overlooked it but apparently you left out the worst phrase of all "Body count"!

[MaryB]

Better email the NSA and tell them to add it! That is their list!