Enfield / Webley Mk VI load inquiry

[outsidebear]

Have recently provided a new home for a 1923 vintage Enfield Mk VI that has had the cylinder 'shaved' for use with .45 ACP using moon clips and/or .45 Auto Rim cases. I do not desire to use factory .45 ACP or .45 AR ammo, due to their pressures being higher than the about 13,000 psi the Enfield was originally intended to be used with.

From an estate sale I came up with nearly 500 rounds of .45 AR brass loaded with 4.5 grs of Red Dot and cast 200 gr SWC bullets. I feel comfortable using this in a 1917 Colt New Service .45 ACP, but am hesitant about it's use in the Enfield Mk VI? Yes, have pulled some of the bullets and checked the load, powder & weight of the charge.

Would appreciate any input regarding this situation, thank you.

Yes, realize I may wind up shooting the 4.5 gr Red Dot through the Colt 1917, then when reloading the .45 AR brass, going with a lighter load than 4.5 gr Red Dot.

I'm open for suggestions for reloading .45 AR for the Enfield.

thank you all for your time n' input...

[Outpost75]

Based on data in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition (2010) on p.277, with the #452630 200-grain SWC, similar in shape to the H&G#68, they list the starting load of Red Dot as 4.4 grains for 713 fps, at 12,400 cup. Your 0.1 grain increase will still be less than the 14,000 c.u.p. max. common for the .455 Eley as was loaded in Canada by CIL.

As for me, I load 4 grains of Bullseye behind a Heavy Metal Molds 200-grain RNFP Cowboy bullet in my shaved Webley Mk.IV with great satisfaction.
155853155855155993

[outsidebear]

Outpost75 thank you. Haven't shot the Mk VI yet, but soon. From what have read on the internet, seems loading the .45 AR brass with Lee .455 dies opens the neck of the .45 AR mouth for a good fit with traditional weight .454 cast bullets (Beartooth offers a 265 gr .454 that may consider using?). Not out for heavy loads, just safe loads nearing original performance. I've not checked the cylinder mouth opening for size, or slugged the barrel to see what it comes out to. What diameter bullet are you using?

[Outpost75]

My Boer War era revolver likes .452 cast of soft 1:30 tin/lead alloy. Cylinder throats on these tend to run small, as service bullet was soft lead and hollow-based. The 200-230 grain .45 ACP bullets are more accurate in mine than the long, ogival nosed 265-grain service bullet, which shows tipped shots on target.

[outsidebear]

Again, thank you for your input. Will get with friend who has cast bullet business and tap his knowledge. Looking forward to taking the Enfield Mk VI afield. regards

[rintinglen]

155963I am inclined to think you could shoot those with no problem whatsoever. My lyman books state that those loads should still be "6 Long tonnes" or so. I now use 4.2 grains of Red Dot with a 452-374 that goes about 232 grains in my shaved Mk VI commercial. The 452-423 boolits pictured didn't pan out so well.

[Outpost75]

Again, thank you for your input. Will get with friend who has cast bullet business and tap his knowledge. Looking forward to taking the Enfield Mk VI afield. regards

If your friend does not have a suitable mold, Matt's Bullets are affordable and are an option.
http://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=71&products_id=274

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I'd be wary of loaded rounds from an estate sale. You never know who has tidied them up into boxes, and the loader has departed without leaving a forwarding address. He might have been holding onto a few he had decided never to fire, and it might have been a S&W he decide never to fire them in. I'd want to pull a good many bullets and weigh every round (a cheap Chinese electronic balance which lets you zero on the weight of the first round is good enough. This is not conclusive, for a harmless variation in brass can hide a harmful one in powder, let alone the possibility of a different powder. But it helps.

Much has been said on the use of these converted Webleys, and a few searches will reveal those threads. I think it is true that the use of standard .45 ACP ammunition can be dangerous but I believe this is due to the impact of the hardball bullet more than the weight of powder and bullet. There is no reason not to load a bit more mildly, for the .455 with lead bullet, lower on figures than the .45ACP, was as good a moderate-range stopper, or better.

The diameter of the cylinder throads is important, at this may or may not be reamed to suit the bullet diameter by the converter. Webley throats were often (always?) smaller in diameter than the land diameter, which worked well with the soft, hollow-based bullet. I have also heard of people getting good results with flat based bullets, but they must be soft. With really hard alloy or jacketed bullets (neither beneficial in the Webley, in my opinion), the throat really needs to be groove diameter or slightly larger.

[Ken in Iowa]

I agree with our Scot friend. Your plan of using the reloads that you trust in the New Service is also sound.

I have a Mk VI that was used by my FIL in WWII. The steady diet of GI 45ACP on half moons was not kind to the old girl.

We shoot it on occasion with AR cased reloads. I lucked into a supply of old-stock swaged .454 bullets that were much more accurate than hard cast SWC. Mild loads of course.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The M1917 is well mad e, and I never heard that any suffered badly from the speed of wartime production. But the priority in 1917 was to get people armed with pistols, and to have ammunition available from any army's stores. Doubts had been cast on lead revolver bullets' compliance with the Hague Convention - not very reasonably or successfully at the time, but it may have been a factor. There was no intention to have anyone shoot the revolver often enough to become really competent in its use as a main combat weapon.