30 cal flat nose

[Don Fischer]

When i got my mold for rifles, I got a 180gr RN. Hearing I'll be better off with either a flat point or hollow point. hate to scrap sll the bullet's and get a new mold so I've been thinking. Years ago someone made a hollow pointer for 22 RF ammo that hooked up to a case trimmer. Anyone know of one for flat nose or HP lead rifle bullet's?

[richhodg66]

Or you could cast some using BruceBs soft point method. There's a sticky about it.

Frankly, I think if you cast them of 50/50 or similar and pushed them to 1800-2000 FPS, you'd be OK with the round nose.

[TXGunNut]

A flat point will probably be better for most hunting situations but a good RN is no slouch either. OTOH a new mould is certainly not a bad thing, actually quite enjoyable and entertaining. One of the reasons I feel we're living in the golden age of boolit casting is due to the easy availability of high quality precision moulds cut in almost any design you want or can dream up.

[Wolfer]

As was said above 50/50 pushed to 1800 or thereabouts will work just fine with a round nose. But to answer you question there's a HP attachment thingy that works with the Foster case trimmer. May be Forester I'm not sure. Larry Gibson uses one.

I had Eric at HP services put a pin in one cavity of my 311041 1/8" x 1/4" deep, just enough to assure expansion without blowing up.

[quilbilly]

As said above, a round nose is no slouch either. A couple years back I tested the 160 gr RNGC from my 30/30 at a muzzle velocity of 1600 fps into soaked, compressed phone books at 40 yards. Softer alloys gave great expansion and penetration to 14". Harder alloys began tumbling at 6" and continued penetrating to 17" plus leaving an impressive wound channel. Either alloy would do just fine out to 150 yards with that kind of penetration at 40 yards when you consider that soaked, compressed phone books are a lot harder media than a deer to penetrate.

[Larry Gibson]

The Forster HP tools are simple to use and come in 1/16" and 1/8" size. I use the 1/8" on RN cast bullets all the time. Here are some 314299s loaded in the 7.62x54R that have been HP'd with the 1/8" Forster tool. The bullet on the right has been HP'd. They are made to work with the Forster case trimmer.

Larry Gibson

155810

[5Shot]

Larry - do you find any decrease in accuracy after HP'n them?

[waksupi]

You can take a file, and put a small flat on them. It will work fine.

[runfiverun]

there ya go complicating things again Ric. :lol:

actually that's how I'd do it too.
I'd probably get all fancy and cut a slot in some wood to make a length stop, so I could keep things fairly close.

[TCLouis]

My boolit test is 1 gallon milk jug filled with water at 50 yards.

One would be very surprised the difference in impact effect with just the smallest meplat filed on a RN boolit.

I go for at least 0.250" though.

Lee's 220 grain RN 338 boolit is by far the most accurate boolit out of my Winnie 338. The impact affect is there with the RN, but ups the ante several steps with just the smallest of meplats.

Even at 50 yds, I can hear the impact with most boolits that have a meplat.
New Lee C338-220 mould from Mid South should be lying in my mailbox tomorrow and I will use it for the rest of the season (early January) with a filed meplat, weighed, then lubed, loaded over either 5744 or 4759, though 5744 seems to be the accuracy leader at this point.

Will be interesting to see the effect new cast boolits have, though I may be limited to the 8 200 Grain RCBS FPs that I have loaded now with a very decent load (Thanx for the load info winelover).

[725]

A member here, Buckshot, makes a dandy HP mold from a non-HP mold. Contact him and ship him your mold for an upgrade.

[leftiye]

And if you want a flat nose you could use a plug instead of a hollow point pin with his/a hollow point mold.

[lobogunleather]

For the past 30 years or so I have been using the Lee C309-180 round-nose mold for loads in .30-06, .308, .300 Savage, and .30-40 Krag. My alloy is 50% WW, 50% linotype metal (BHN 18). Hornady crimp-on gas checks. Loads in these calibers are all in the 2000FPS range (+/- 100 or so).

Clean kills on Colorado mule deer (150-275 lb. range) within 100 yards (I have seldom had to shoot more than 100 yards in Colorado mountain hunting). I have never recovered any of these bullets from game animals. There has always been an exit wound, usually pretty impressive. A number of shots have gone through bone (ribs, leg, shoulder) with no problem and continued penetrating. I wouldn't hesitate to use on larger critters like elk within reasonable range, but usually go with a larger caliber for that use (.45-70, .45-90 preferred).

Shot placement is the essential element in game hunting. A .30 caliber hole through the vitals will put just about any critter down, as will a broken shoulder or upper leg. On deer-size critters that gives us about 8-10" diameter to place our shots.

If you have a RN mold that you like, and it shoots well in your rifle, I see no strong reason to change.

[MBTcustom]

Don't scrap your bullets and don't go selling the mold. There are many many ways to handle this as has been mentioned.
I like the Forster HP attachment, but I have never shot a deer with it yet. Filing a FP is about as easy as it gets, and I have done that and it works fine (you can cut a + in the nose with the corner of the file while your at it.)
Another thing I have done, although it's kind of silly and it works is to use the wrong punch on the Lyman 45 to smash the noses flat as they are being lube sized. That works too if you use that tool.
Lots of options.

[Don Fischer]

You can take a file, and put a small flat on them. It will work fine.

I have considered that but wondered if i didn't get the flat quite sq with the bullet, it would probably effect accuracy. Might try it anyway. just got off the phone with midway and Forester hollow pointer is on the way. I had also considered going to a 170gr flat nose bullet but would rather stay with a bit heavier bullet. From my mold the 180gr bullet's are coming out a shade over 183gr.

[cherokeetracker]

There has been several good solutions here. You might look around and find someone with a lathe. If they have a collet chuck set up, you can do both flat pointing them, and Or using a drill or small cutting tool to create a hollow point. This is what I would do, before making any decision, or spending money to go in a direction to only find out it is the wrong direction later.
Yes I do have a couple of friends that have machine shops. and a Gunsmith friend that anyone of them would allow me to do this. Six Packs or A little Venison thrown in someones direction, helps here, too, sometimes. That way you know if you want hollow points or flat nosed bullets. Then you can make a decision on what to do. Buy a Mould, or modify the one you own, to whatever specs you feel would give you the best results. Ok MY 2Cents worth.
This would be more accurate than any hand filing sanding drill etc etc.

[waksupi]

I have considered that but wondered if i didn't get the flat quite sq with the bullet, it would probably effect accuracy. Might try it anyway. just got off the phone with midway and Forester hollow pointer is on the way. I had also considered going to a 170gr flat nose bullet but would rather stay with a bit heavier bullet. From my mold the 180gr bullet's are coming out a shade over 183gr.


It will not effect the accuracy if it is off a bit.

[jhalcott]

Consider placing a strip of aluminum foil in the nose area of the mold. This will cause the nose to open like a pair of scissors on impact. I have used this method with pointy and round nose boolits for 200yard shots with a 30-06 & 280 remington.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry - do you find any decrease in accuracy after HP'n them?

No. Here's 2 five shot groups zeroing my M91 35 Remington at 100 yards and then adding 3 moa to the Lyman rear aperture sight and shooting the bottom group at 200 yards. Also a better pic of the 314299 HP.

Larry Gibson

155879155878155881155880

[TXGunNut]

Don, if there's a FP boolit you'd like to try don't hesitate to PM me or post it here. Like many members I'm happy to send a few samples and if I have the mould but no samples available your request may motivate me to cast a few to help your project along (and motivate me on my own projects). No promises, but many of us participate in the pay-it-forward program as we have benefitted from the generosity of other members.

[reloader28]

I had to file down the shaft on my Forster HP bits so that it would fit my RCBS trimmer.
Very easy to do. Just chuck the bit end in a drill and hold a file to the spinning shaft. I dont know what size Lyman takes, but this will allow you to use it in RCBS. Saves buying a new trimmer.

I'm another fan of mashing the nose just a tad to make a flat meplat. Very repeatable results if you adjust the boolit deep enough to bottom out the lubsizer. Everyone comes out exactly the same.

[MT Gianni]

I have considered that but wondered if i didn't get the flat quite sq with the bullet, it would probably effect accuracy. Might try it anyway. just got off the phone with midway and Forester hollow pointer is on the way. I had also considered going to a 170gr flat nose bullet but would rather stay with a bit heavier bullet. From my mold the 180gr bullet's are coming out a shade over 183gr.
Many years ago when ebay was a good source of cheap goods I found a file type trim die for 6.5 Remington mag. It has been a good way to assure that a loaded, filed round is square and uniform. Set it atop the case and file it square.

[Huntsman]

This the result of a 200gr Lee RN from my Win 88 after hitting wet phone books at 100 yards ;
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jamie_MG/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151019_124618_zpsrmzhyuho.jpg (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_MG/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151019_124618_zpsrmzhyuho.jpg.html)http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jamie_MG/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151008_101838_zpsemxrmbxx.jpg (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_MG/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151008_101838_zpsemxrmbxx.jpg.html)
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jamie_MG/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151008_102428_zpsunfy00ke.jpg (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_MG/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151008_102428_zpsunfy00ke.jpg.html)

[Hickok]

Huntsman, no fair, we need your alloy and load.......:awesome:

[hockeynick39]

Just picked up an Accurate Molds double cavity 31-170S mold about 2 weeks ago. I have seasoned it and dropped about 10 boolits from it with straight wheel weights. It drops @ 172 gr and .311 caliber on average. They also register 13 BHN and should be fine for .30-30 Winchester low velocity hunting rounds. If I heat treat them for an hour at 400F, they go up near 18 BHN which fulfills the .30-40 Krag and .30-06 SPR voids for hunting, as well as high velocity .30-30 loads.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-170S-D.png

[Huntsman]

Huntsman, no fair, we need your alloy and load.......:awesome:

Hey Thanks Hickok,

Basically all I did was, I made a Lyman #2 alloy and added approx 1.5lbs of pure lead to a 6-7lbs batch. It took a few attempts of adding pure lead until I got a BHN of 13.
Once I've used up this mix I'll go with WW/Pure lead 50:50

[TXGunNut]

Huntsman, no fair, we need your alloy and load.......:awesome:


Appears to be a Grainger catalog, if that helps. ;-)

[Hickok]

Appears to be a Grainger catalog, if that helps. ;-)Tex, right there is the secret that makes it work!:redneck:

[Don Fischer]

I was wondering where I put this thread. Thank's Tx gunnut. I put a photo of a couple bullet's I did by hand yesterday with a file, drill and couple bit's. Think I'll put it here too. I have a small flat around the edge of the HP and the HP I ended up has a 3/16" hole that tapers to the bottom of the HP. Here it is. HP tool should be here any day now. Hardness tester supposed to be here today!

http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r706/fischerantlp/045b398c-7a55-4fca-96ea-06e7be87e1ab_zps0reoasg4.jpg

[Don Fischer]

This the result of a 200gr Lee RN from my Win 88 after hitting wet phone books at 100 yards ;
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jamie_MG/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151019_124618_zpsrmzhyuho.jpg (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_MG/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151019_124618_zpsrmzhyuho.jpg.html)http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jamie_MG/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151008_101838_zpsemxrmbxx.jpg (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_MG/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151008_101838_zpsemxrmbxx.jpg.html)
http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jamie_MG/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151008_102428_zpsunfy00ke.jpg (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_MG/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151008_102428_zpsunfy00ke.jpg.html)

Be hard to complain about that! How hard was the lead?

[Huntsman]

That lead measures out to 13 BHN.

[Blammer]

It doesn't even look like it penetrated one piece of wet paper... sheesh... :)

[Huntsman]

It doesn't even look like it penetrated one piece of wet paper... sheesh... :)

That was the page it stopped at in the second book.

http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i375/Jamie_MG/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151008_102219_zpsxc3uqpkq.jpg (http://s1090.photobucket.com/user/Jamie_MG/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20151008_102219_zpsxc3uqpkq.jpg.html)

[taco650]

Interesting discussion here. I have a Lee 309-180R that drops light (they average around 168) and I'm wondering if there's somebody who can bore it down to a FP. Suggestions? I don't know any local machinists and would try it myself if I had access to a good drill press or mill.

[Beerd]

It doesn't even look like it penetrated one piece of wet paper... sheesh... :)

but it mushroomed perfectly!
..

[tdoyka]

huntsman,
nice job!!!!

i use a 165gr(173gr dropped) ranch dog size at .311" in my '98 springfield armory(bubbazied) 30-40 krag. the 165gr goes about 1800fps and is roughly 12-13bhn. i got a doe earlier this year at 93 yards and it was boom and smack equals dead deer. it was my first ever cast boolit fired at a deer. the boolit entered on the shoulder, took out both lungs and heart and broke a rib on the way out. entrance looked like a typical .308" and the exit wound looked to be around a 1" in diameter. i was impressed that the boolit, even tho it hit the shoulder, left very little meat damage. if i would have been using my ruger #1 in .270 with 130gr ballistic tips, i would have thrown the shoulder away along with the rib cage.

right now i'm into flat points/noses. although huntsman's boolit could change my mind!!!

[Don Fischer]

I flattened the tip's of a few bullet's using a file. Held the handle end to me and pulled the bullet tip to me. Think it's easier to get a good tip that way. Pulled each bullet tip the same distance four time's. Got my lee hardness tester this afternoon. Work's like it say's, checked a few bullet's and got 14.0. One thing about the bullet tester microscope, you need really good light on the dent of the bullet. I set up a goose neck lamp with a 60W bulb and it worked well. Without a good light source, can't read the scales.

[Don Fischer]

Just picked up an Accurate Molds double cavity 31-170S mold about 2 weeks ago. I have seasoned it and dropped about 10 boolits from it with straight wheel weights. It drops @ 172 gr and .311 caliber on average. They also register 13 BHN and should be fine for .30-30 Winchester low velocity hunting rounds. If I heat treat them for an hour at 400F, they go up near 18 BHN which fulfills the .30-40 Krag and .30-06 SPR voids for hunting, as well as high velocity .30-30 loads.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=31-170S-D.png

This is great, I've been casting pistol bullet's mostly since about 1971 and I really haven't learned much to now! But I will say the only barrel I ever leaded was a 41 mag with factory lead bullets. Thank's folks.

Now after you heated the bullet's in the stove for an hour, did you air cool or water drop?

[centershot]

Drop them in cold water to harden them, let them stand for a few days before you use them.

[runfiverun]

air cooling just returns them back to the same bhn they were from the mold.
the fast quench cooling is what raises the bhn.
you can tune in a final bhn through the soak temp and the cooling speed.
make sure to soak the boolits in the heat for about an hour then pull and dump quickly.
changing the temp by about 25-f will change the bhn by about 2-3 points.
wait 14 day's or so then check their hardness if your using a lower antimony content and/or one without a refiner like arsenic or sulpher then the final bhn will take longer to come around.

[waksupi]

huntsman,
nice job!!!!

i use a 165gr(173gr dropped) ranch dog size at .311" in my '98 springfield armory(bubbazied) 30-40 krag. the 165gr goes about 1800fps and is roughly 12-13bhn. i got a doe earlier this year at 93 yards and it was boom and smack equals dead deer. it was my first ever cast boolit fired at a deer. the boolit entered on the shoulder, took out both lungs and heart and broke a rib on the way out. entrance looked like a typical .308" and the exit wound looked to be around a 1" in diameter. i was impressed that the boolit, even tho it hit the shoulder, left very little meat damage. if i would have been using my ruger #1 in .270 with 130gr ballistic tips, i would have thrown the shoulder away along with the rib cage.

right now i'm into flat points/noses. although huntsman's boolit could change my mind!!!


It sounds like you are getting perfect bullet performance, as-is.

[tdoyka]

It sounds like you are getting perfect bullet performance, as-is.

to tell you the truth, i don't have the casting material YET!!!:oops:

i have used carolina bullets (http://www.carolinacastbullets.com/ ) , they are 165gr rd in .311" and 275gr rd in .430". unfortunatly carolina is no longer in business. i think that the bull shop (http://bullshop.weebly.com/bullets.html) can fuel my needs until my own casting comes in.

i "think" that its boolit is roughly 12-13bhn: 95% lead, 2.5% tin and 2.5% antimony. but i'm not sure.

[vzerone]

Don't scrap your bullets and don't go selling the mold. There are many many ways to handle this as has been mentioned.
I like the Forster HP attachment, but I have never shot a deer with it yet. Filing a FP is about as easy as it gets, and I have done that and it works fine (you can cut a + in the nose with the corner of the file while your at it.)
Another thing I have done, although it's kind of silly and it works is to use the wrong punch on the Lyman 45 to smash the noses flat as they are being lube sized. That works too if you use that tool.
Lots of options.

Not criticizing you, but that takes a lot of force to flatten that nose out in a luber/sizer unless the alloy is very soft or they are sized real soon after casting. Also the OP may not have that type of luber/sizer. On a more important note if they are of a bore rider style or even kind of close to one (that Mihec 30 Silhouette would be a good example as "being close" to one) then the bullet may no longer chamber correctly because the is too larger from the force the luber/sizer put on it.

Probably the filing method would be a safer bet.

If alloy is very soft hollow points could be too explosive, but then again some like them that way. In that respect the Forster hollow pointer might be a good deal if you can control the size of the hole and depth. I hear the 308 hunting bullet from Mihec is pretty devastating and shouldn't be pushed to the higher velocities (which it doesn't need to work very well) or they become the TNT's of cast.

[MBTcustom]

Not criticizing you, but that takes a lot of force to flatten that nose out in a luber/sizer unless the alloy is very soft or they are sized real soon after casting. Also the OP may not have that type of luber/sizer. On a more important note if they are of a bore rider style or even kind of close to one (that Mihec 30 Silhouette would be a good example as "being close" to one) then the bullet may no longer chamber correctly because the is too larger from the force the luber/sizer put on it.

Probably the filing method would be a safer bet.

If alloy is very soft hollow points could be too explosive, but then again some like them that way. In that respect the Forster hollow pointer might be a good deal if you can control the size of the hole and depth. I hear the 308 hunting bullet from Mihec is pretty devastating and shouldn't be pushed to the higher velocities (which it doesn't need to work very well) or they become the TNT's of cast.

I wasn't recommending doing the lyman 450 trick. Just saying that I have done it on a Lovern style bullet (but then again, I've done almost everything that can be done to/with a lovern style bullet). Obviously a bore rider would be a no go, but I suspect that would be obvious the first time one was trying to find seating depth.
I was merely trying to say there are lots of options to put a flat/expanding nose on a bullet that does not involve buying a new custom mold.
And for the record, it takes very little force to flatten the nose of a bullet to .150 or so, unless of course you're one of those who likes to cast with Linotype.

[Hickok]

I am with you on this Goodsteel. I cast mainly with ACWW, and I can put a nice big flat meplat on a .30-.31 caliber that has a RN or spritzer nose very easily with my Lyman 450. I can use the Lyman gas check seater and a flat nose punch and make a nice flat point boolit. Taking it easy, and it wont hurt the bore riding portion of the nose either.

To do it nice and neat, I don't use the GC seater, I simply set the depth the boolit goes into sizing die and when the nose punch touches the die, it makes fn boolits nice and same dimensioned.