Question for trapdoor carbine collectors

[mm1ut1]

Having searched a few years for a trapdoor carbine that had an excellent bore I finally found one. It has the M1879 sight that I like even though the receiver dates into the Buffington era. After a while and with time to kill I did some research and found it had parts from all over the trapdoor era. My questions is how common are "Mixmaster" trapdoors ? I also went over my 1873 trapdoor rifles and found they had a variety of model parts. Thanks in advance !

[Wayne Smith]

l'll give you a one word answer - Bannermans!

[bedbugbilly]

Wayne pretty much sums it up.

Years ago, I used to go to a monthly gun show about 60 miles from whee I live. There was a fellow there who literally was an "expert" on the trap doors. I visited with him once in a while and one time when I got to his table, he was going over a carbine that another dealer had that he was interested in. He went over it with a fine tooth comb and found two discrepancies from what should have been on it but weren't. That killed the deal for him and he walked away from it.

This fellow had, at one time, owned ten consecutive serial numbered trap door rifles. He had purchased them form a fellow who said they had come out of an old Grand Army of the Republic Hall . . which made sense as they would have gotten them from the government as "surplus". He said that he took them to the Atlanta show and put them out on his table to display as it would be a rarity to see ten consecutive numbered rifles. He had no intention of selling them but a guy came along and asked him "how much"? He refused to sell them but the guy kept coming back and pestering him so he said that he finally though out a figure that should shake anybody up in their shoes . . . ant the guy pulled out his checkbook, wrote a check and once the funds were verified . . . the rifles had a new owner.

I'm no expert on trapdoors . . I've owned a couple but my interest was more in rifled muskets. I do know that a 100% original carbine demands top money. So . . . just do you homework and be aware that there are many carbines out there that are pieced together but the seller will try to pass them off as original . . . sometimes on purpose and sometimes to take advantage of someone who doesn't know any better.

The fellow who had the trap doors once show me a "carbine" that had been created out of a rifle that was cut down. He sat it on the table next to an original and whoever had done the work, obviously knew what he was doing but the guy could find several things that tipped him off that it was "faked".

Bannermans had tons of surplus from the government and could cobble up pretty much what they wanted to. To illustrate that, they had so many trapdoors that when they poured the cement for their piers on Bannerman's Island, they used trap door barrels for reinforcing rod. I have a barrel that was used in that manner that a friend of mine in New York gave to me . .. . he visited Bannerman's Island years ago . . . the piers were but that time falling apart and he brought a couple of them home as a souvenir.

[Scharfschuetze]

I collect the infantry Trapdoors, but I've seen a number of original and converted carbines.

The big tip offs to an infantry rifle conversion to a carbine is the diameter of the barrel at the muzzle and a filled in cleaning rod hole in the forearm and probably a lack of a sling bar and ring. Also look for a "C" on the sight to indicate that the sight is calibrated for the 45/55/405 grain load over a shorter sight radius.

Lots of little details and only a good book will help. There are several good books on the Trapdoor out there but I like M.D. Waite and B. D. Ernst's book "Trapdoor Sprinfield" as a good reference book as it is succinct and to this point accurate.

Don't let a parts gun put you off if you are looking for a shooter. Sadly, the center rifle in the picture below is all original, but someone in its past decided to refinish the stock, albeit quite well. The price was very, very good as a result so guess which one gets shot the most.

Here's a good web site for Springfield reserch:

http://trapdoorcollector.com/

My infantry Trapdoors. They all have good bores and get shot enough to keep 'em exercised.

[mm1ut1]

I found several sites online and used the information to determine that it has an authentic carbine stock, rear sight, trigger guard, and barrel. Most important to me is how it shoots ! I'm going to make up some BP loads today.

[Scharfschuetze]

Let us know how it shoots and post some photos as well. Old Trapdoors really are a lot of fun once you get their quirks and vagaries worked out.

Keep in mind that the Trapdoor has a pretty big change in zero when changing from BP to smokeless. A much higher front sight is required with smokeless for a zero compared to your BP zero. The three groove barrels like boolits sized a little larger than modern 45/70 barrels and a fairly soft alloy also works very well. My favorite mold for them is the Lee 405 grain design that mimics the Frankford Arsenal boolit as used in the original 45/55/405 and 45/70/405 loads. The Lyman 457193 design is also a pretty good choice if it casts large enough for your barrel.

Good luck!