45 ACP Advice Requested

[rjathon]

I'm going to try the NOE .453 200 SWC PB for the 45 acp. It is for a friends 1911 which has an aftermarket "match" barrel and also perhaps for a Glock if deemed appropriate.

How does one approach sizing and lubrication? Is this a candidate for powder coating?

Any tips on recreational loads?

Thanks

[Outpost75]

Long established wadcutter load with H&G68 or equivalent is 4.5 grains of Bullseye, I don't powdercoat, but dilute Lee Liquid Alox 50-50 withmineral spirits, only light coating needed for light brassy color, don't worry about filling lube grooves, 2-inch, ten-shot groups at 50 yards from match grade pistol all day long. Not rocket science here.

[DougGuy]

"Match Grade" all too often just means a chamber and bore dimensions that are for the most part too tight to load .452" boolits at a decent COA without throating the barrel. Don't be alarmed if your assembled ammo does not chamber fully, this is quite common and a simple fix takes care of it.

[Jupiter7]

45 is easy. Size .452 with whatever lube you like. Shoot. Repeat. I load 5grs Bulleye, mine drops 212 grains from same NOE mold. Use plunk test to determine Max OAL. Mine chamber fine loaded 1.255.

[jcren]

I powder coat all my 45's anymore. Clean, no lead or residue and in the 4 guns I have tried, more accurate than Winchester white box ammo.

[Love Life]

If 452 doesn't work, .451 will probably be the ticket. 4.0-4.5 gr of bullseye. Adjust seating depth as needed and use a good taper crimp. You can powdercoat them (I have), tumble lube them with LLA, or use a lube sizer.

I oven heat treat mine as my target guns have shown a preference for hard bullets for target work.

[ole 5 hole group]

don't worry about filling lube grooves, 2-inch, ten-shot groups at 50 yards from match grade pistol all day long. Not rocket science here.

Is that a consistent 2.00" 10-shot group or a 2.95" 10-shot group at 50 yards?

[35remington]

I think the point was that they shot well. Might want to reread what was printed. Seemed pretty clear to me. Adding decimals to the hundredths seems a waste of time.

[Love Life]

2-2.95 at 50 isn't to shabby!

[rjathon]

Thanks to everyone.

Any recommendations on what alloy and how to cool?

Thanks again

[tja6435]

I'd for sure listen to this guy, I have a Ruger SR1911 that wouldn't chamber lead bullets sized .452" unless I seated them way deep. Dougguy throated my barrel and it's made all the difference and removed a ton of headaches trying to get the round to the suggested COAL


"Match Grade" all too often just means a chamber and bore dimensions that are for the most part too tight to load .452" boolits at a decent COA without throating the barrel. Don't be alarmed if your assembled ammo does not chamber fully, this is quite common and a simple fix takes care of it.

[ole 5 hole group]

35Remington - I usually get the posters point - and just for your information decimals may not mean much to you, but they just might to others depending upon if they shoot for score or group.

2 or 3 inch group groups at 50 yards consistently is usually a sign of a high master, so I was just waiting on a response from him to get a feel, if he is a current high master, as that means something to me - so just maybe you didn't get the drift of my post.;)

[DerekP Houston]

im using the 452 200gr hp they are feeding fine in my tisa 1911. Powder coated and alox no leading so far.

[rjathon]

I powder coat all my 45's anymore. Clean, no lead or residue and in the 4 guns I have tried, more accurate than Winchester white box ammo.

When do you size? Do you lube?

Thanks

[35remington]

From my reading, "2 inch ten shot groups at 50 yards" did not seem as ambiguous as you read it to be. 2 inch was stated and nothing else.....not 3, nor 2.95. That was your addition. Handheld groups shot standing was not claimed as you are implying, so this doesn't necessarily require a "master" classification, perhaps a Ransom Rest instead.

If you want to know if someone is a high master, and also how the groups were shot, perhaps you need to ask that question directly. I certainly did not "read that" in your first response at all.

Just sayin'.

[DougGuy]

When do you size? Do you lube?

Thanks

I don't actually PC, but I have throated some barrels that guys who DO use the PC have sent dummies, if you size before you coat and you get high spots in the coating it makes the boolit larger and a bit out of rounds so if they don't want to go into battery after doing it like this, it may be possible to run the PC back through a sizer die before loading to take care of any high spots. Usually the coating isn't that thick, but it is conceivable that you could use one sizer before coating, and a separate but every so slightly larger sizer to uniform up finished coated boolits. I mean if you really want to make sure they are round and free of high spots, AND would fit in the barrel throat after you assemble ammo, this would do it.

Personally for me, I'm an old skool 1911 kinda guy, I like a softer alloy like 50/50+2% and a soft lube like Felix or even SPG, even though it's a black powder lube it works a charm in .45 both ACP and .45 Colt. I would probably like powdercoating but it's just more learning curve which at this point in life I would prefer to do without.. Not that it doesn't work.

When you get around to loading, take the barrel(s) out of the guns you are loading for, and see if the assembled rounds will plunk (go all the way into the chamber and you can "hear" them hit the headspace ledge at the end of the chamber, this is what the "plunk" test is). You can assemble a dummy round with no powder or primer to use for testing. If you have to seat it way down in the case for it to plunk, this is not good. All this does, is create a second problem with rising pressures as a poor workaround to the first problem which is a too tight throat in the barrel. The proper thing to do is have the barrel throated so it will accept a .452" boolit seated to YOUR choice of COA measurement. Most 1911s will feed better if the round is longer as opposed to seating it deeper. You just have to check and see if the barrel will accept the round and if it doesn't, it's time to think about throating it.

[Boogieman]

A 200gr SWC in a 45acp PC or greased over Bullseye Unique or Tightgroup. It's hard to find a bad load, some are just a little bit better.

[S. Galbraith]

Some good advice here so far. I have used this particular bullet, but have never powder coated. I don't see any problem with doing so.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

There are many combinations of powders and bullets that work well in the 45ACP. Cast bullets are usually sized to .451 or .452. Depends on what the gun likes. I use a taper crimp of.471 when loading RN or SWC bullets. The only problem with 45ACP that plagues reloaders is the length of cases and firings tend to make them shorter. It is something that has to be watched or it will impact on grouping/accuracy. PCing is ok if it works for you; I don't do it as I do well enough without it. Two inch groups at 50 yards is good shooting if you can achieve it, but it takes a good gun and shooter most of the time. Some revolvers and accurized autos are equal to the task as are some shooters. A reasonable amount of care in ammo prep is also necessary. LLS

[Love Life]

With PC, I size after coating. Where you can get into trouble is with a bullet with an ogive that gets coated, but not sized. The TC designs can do that as can the RF designs. With the 200 SWC, you shouldn't have this issue if you size after coating. I like a firm taper crimp of .468-.470. I seat my 200 gr SWC to 1.252. All of my brass is trimmed to length because I believe in consistency and that same length gives me a consistent crimp. Is it needed? Test and see!

[MtGun44]

Load an H&G 68 200 gr SWC over 4.8 or Titegroup or Bullseye, size the boolit to .452, seat to 1.250-1.260 length overall,
and crimp with a taper crimp die as a separate operation - do not seat and crimp in the same die as one process.

I recommend an older style TC die which is a variant of a roll crimp, which has the taper inside the die over about 1/8 to
3/16" area. Some modern TC dies (Redding and Hornady, AFAIK) have a continuous smooth taper from die mouth to front,
and are entirely unsuitable for producing the proper short, tight taper crimp that you want for most reliable feeding and
chambering.

Pull your barrel and use the chamber as a gauge to set your taper crimp so that the loaded round will drop freely into
the chamber, or maybe a light one pound push to fully seat it.

Inadequate or no taper crimp is a very frequent cause of chambering and feeding problems.

Bill

[ak_milsurp]

I've loaded 200gr H&G 68 OVER 5.8gr of W231 and CCI 300 OR Win L Primers for over 30 years... Thousands of them . These were commercial "hardcast" boolits, before I started casting my own. Awesome load, very accurate, makes "major power factor" it's 850-900 fps. This load works wonderfully in my 1911's, my Marlin Camp carbine in .45acp, and my S&W 25-2 revolver.

[ak_milsurp]

I've always shot full power, military ball equivalent loads in my .45acp weapons.

[saleen322]

I always put a Lee Factory Crimp die in the last press stage. I try to find one loaded round that will not drop into the chamber and then use that round to adjust the die's taper crimp until the "tight" round drops in. Set the die there and start loading. With some work, you can get 2" @ 50 yards.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Targets/45ACPWST2-1.jpg

[Boogieman]

I've always shot full power, military ball equivalent loads in my .45acp weapons.
4.8 gr. Titegroup with a 230 gr.RN Lyman # 452347 is about equal to hardball

[Plate plinker]

I'd for sure listen to this guy, I have a Ruger SR1911 that wouldn't chamber lead bullets sized .452" unless I seated them way deep. Dougguy throated my barrel and it's made all the difference and removed a ton of headaches trying to get the round to the suggested COAL

+1 to that A top notch LTW's pistol smith did that to my KIMBER match gun it eats anything and everything now.

[Groo]

Groo here
5 gr Bullseye 231gr fmj rn was the WW2 loading.
I now use 5gr BE for most 45acp range loads.