Am about to aquite 2 fairly goofy rifles...hopefully

[AbitNutz]

I found a Greener-Martini Target in 45/70. This is a Navy Arms Retread back in the 70's. Owner says he fired it once about 40 years ago and put in the closet due to recoil. So either it is as new or the bore is eaten away.

Number 2....is a Baikal double rifle, also in 45/70. Owner says he shot t once...the right barrel and then put it in the closet due to recoil. So either it is as new or the bore is eaten away. I asked him if he was related to a guy who owned a Greener-Martini.

I'm likely to pay too much for them but heck, I'm not recoil sensitive and my closets already has a bunch of big bore rifles in them...

I eager to see how the barrel regulation widget works on the Baikal.

These will add to my collection of weird 45/70's. I have a custom Navy Arms Siamese Mauser in 45/70 that I shoots like it thinks it's a 458 Win Mag.

I'm going to see if I can get a nice tang sight on the back end and a globe on the front end.

[mdi]

Wishing you good shootin' (ouch!)...

[AbitNutz]

You have to be a manly man for these shootin' irons. I have a Sharps 1977 (Pedersoli) in 450 Nitro Express that I shoot up to the point my vision starts to fade.

[Blackwater]

It's amazing some of the good deals we run across from folks who are recoil sensitive. Lots of them out there now, too! Best way to get any magnum is to just find some yuppie who's just bought one, and wait a bit, and look for it on the shelf at the LGS. They ain't makin' 'em like they used to it seems - the people, not the guns.

[TenTea]

Unless it was holy black, weren't many corrosive primers used with smokeless .45-70 loads since 1970.

I predict you'll be fine. ;)

Maybe steer clear of the Span-Am surplus ammo though...

[AbitNutz]

You always here the stories about recoil. There's always a guy that says he saw a someone at the range fire (insert insanely powerful rifle here) put it down and walk away, leaving the rifle to a new and happy owner. Or sell it for pocket change or...whatever. I really don't believe those stories but I'm really sure that more than one rifle has been shot just a time or two, put in a case and never fired again.

God bless 'em.

[Skirmisher]

I know for a fact that shooting the Navy Arms Greener with smokeless factory loads will definitely get your attention. It's a pleasure to shoot with full house BP loads, thumps but doesn't hurt. I had one that I let a very close friend talk me out of for a trade. I'm wishing I could find another now.

[fourarmed]

I was at a gunshow once where a guy was selling a Ruger #1 in .458 WM, along with factory ammo, brass, and dies for $400. If I hadn't just bought an Anschutz 64MS from the guy at the next table, I would have bought it in a New York minute. The fact that my wife was with me had nothing whatever to do with my decision. She realizes the need for elephant guns.

[shooter93]

I'm not recoil sensitive but after decades of shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds from a huge number of calibers I prefer not to get beat up when I'm shooting for fun. And after a couple of back and neck surgeries it probably isn't wise anyway. The big kickers I still take along but fire fewer rounds through them. I also switch back and forth between the big kickers and the "nicer" ones when shooting. If your vision does fade from recoil....it may be wise to cut back a bit. Permanent damage to your eyesight isn't something to be taken lightly.

[AbitNutz]

Wow! A Ruger No.1 anything for $400.00 is a bargain. I have a No.1 Tropical in 450-400 Nitro Express and shooting it with factory loads makes your eyes cross. It's fantastic!

Sorry this is so long but it's funny and it's true...

You know those stories where I guy walks up to a golf tea, bowling lane or basketball court and hits a a hole in one, throws a backhanded strike or drops one from half court?

I have one that actually happened, not to someone I know, or someone I heard about but to me....with my Ruger No.1 in 450/400 NE.

I had just gotten the rifle and never fired it. I was a little nervous as this was my first REALLY big bore rifle. I went to the public shooting range in Spring Valley Ohio with my whole damn family, including my incredibly annoying know everything son-in-law. I love my daughter but man, there is a limit.

Anyway, my wife set us up at the end bench on the 50 yard range. It was a Sunday afternoon and the place was packed with every splotchy faced teen that could scrape enough paper route money together to buy an AK or AR anything. She put up my spotting scope on its tripod and sent my other, more sensible, daughter down range at the ceasefire to set up some 12x18 blue stick up targets with a bright red circle.

I knew enough not to shoot the 450/400 NE from a seated bench. All I had on was a T-shirt. I opened up THE box of ammo (the only box at $112.00) and spilled them out on the table with a giant thunk. I held one up and the range officer came over to look....it's not a common round and I was holding it up like a radioactive Cuban Cigar.

From the standing position I tilted the rifle down, dropped the lever and pushed one in like I was loading a torpedo. Before I lost my nerve I snapped the breach closed, shouldered the rifle, got a quick glimpse of the target and cut loose. This thing just roared! The folks around me stopped shooting and the range officer was actually smiling. He never smiled all the times I'd seen him.

My son-in-law was looking in the spotting scope. He yells you hit it! I said well, of course. He said no, you hit the bullseye. I tried not to fall over from shock. I said well, that's what I was aiming for. He had never gone shooting with me before and while he knew I had a $hit load of firearms and reloading equipment of every description he had no idea what to expect regarding shooting ability.

I snapped open the rifle and caught the brass in the air as it ejected....another shock. I carefully laid the rifle on the bench and meandered over to the spotting scope. The hole was big enough for younger eyes to see from the line but God strike me dead, I had hit the center of the target. It wasn't precisely dead center but half of it had cut the red dot.

Now what do I do? Take another shot and miss the hill?? I looked at the my son-in-law and said. Here, take a shot. He looked like I was trying to hand him a live crocodile. He backed away, shaking his head and saying no thanks. Apparently this thing really looked like it kicked. It was then I realized that my shoulder was not enjoying the moment as much as the rest of me. I looked at the range officer...care for a go? Hell yeah! He said. I gave him a cigar and he fired one down range and put it on the paper at about the 9 ring. He handed it back and said, it's nice to meet someone who appreciates fine guns and knows how to shoot. We've been friends ever since.

I did not take a second shot. I proceeded to just jaw with him for a while and let the rest of my family shoot.

[AbitNutz]

I now have adorned myself with a new bit of wardrobe...a shooting vest with double thick layer of some sort of synthetic wonder padding that actually works...I have also invested in a Caldwell FCX Lead Sled...both are a miracle.

[runfiverun]

the 45-70 can be turned into a tamed down thumper easy enough.
Littlegirl shoots my Browning 86 with the crescent steel butt plate often enough to make me wince every time I see brass prices.
a 430gr boolit on top of 22-24grs of 2400 makes a very effective and controllable load that beats black powder velocity's by @300 fps or so.
[she's still trying to figure out how to line up 9-10 zombies to make full use of the round]

[shredder]

Wow! A Ruger No.1 anything for $400.00 is a bargain. I have a No.1 Tropical in 450-400 Nitro Express and shooting it with factory loads makes your eyes cross. It's fantastic!

Sorry this is so long but it's funny and it's true...

You know those stories where I guy walks up to a golf tea, bowling lane or basketball court and hits a a hole in one, throws a backhanded strike or drops one from half court?

I have one that actually happened, not to someone I know, or someone I heard about but to me....with my Ruger No.1 in 450/400 NE.

I had just gotten the rifle and never fired it. I was a little nervous as this was my first REALLY big bore rifle. I went to the public shooting range in Spring Valley Ohio with my whole damn family, including my incredibly annoying know everything son-in-law. I love my daughter but man, there is a limit.

Anyway, my wife set us up at the end bench on the 50 yard range. It was a Sunday afternoon and the place was packed with every splotchy faced teen that could scrape enough paper route money together to buy an AK or AR anything. She put up my spotting scope on its tripod and sent my other, more sensible, daughter down range at the ceasefire to set up some 12x18 blue stick up targets with a bright red circle.

I knew enough not to shoot the 450/400 NE from a seated bench. All I had on was a T-shirt. I opened up THE box of ammo (the only box at $112.00) and spilled them out on the table with a giant thunk. I held one up and the range officer came over to look....it's not a common round and I was holding it up like a radioactive Cuban Cigar.

From the standing position I tilted the rifle down, dropped the lever and pushed one in like I was loading a torpedo. Before I lost my nerve I snapped the breach closed, shouldered the rifle, got a quick glimpse of the target and cut loose. This thing just roared! The folks around me stopped shooting and the range officer was actually smiling. He never smiled all the times I'd seen him.

My son-in-law was looking in the spotting scope. He yells you hit it! I said well, of course. He said no, you hit the bullseye. I tried not to fall over from shock. I said well, that's what I was aiming for. He had never gone shooting with me before and while he knew I had a $hit load of firearms and reloading equipment of every description he had no idea what to expect regarding shooting ability.

I snapped open the rifle and caught the brass in the air as it ejected....another shock. I carefully laid the rifle on the bench and meandered over to the spotting scope. The hole was big enough for younger eyes to see from the line but God strike me dead, I had hit the center of the target. It wasn't precisely dead center but half of it had cut the red dot.

Now what do I do? Take another shot and miss the hill?? I looked at the my son-in-law and said. Here, take a shot. He looked like I was trying to hand him a live crocodile. He backed away, shaking his head and saying no thanks. Apparently this thing really looked like it kicked. It was then I realized that my shoulder was not enjoying the moment as much as the rest of me. I looked at the range officer...care for a go? Hell yeah! He said. I gave him a cigar and he fired one down range and put it on the paper at about the 9 ring. He handed it back and said, it's nice to meet someone who appreciates fine guns and knows how to shoot. We've been friends ever since.

I did not take a second shot. I proceeded to just jaw with him for a while and let the rest of my family shoot.

Thanks for that. Great story. Believable too!

[big bore 99]

I love those 45-70's, but have a hard time doing many of those full house loads anymore. Usually do the lighter Unique loads all day long. Still a ton of fun without the sore or bruised up shoulder for a few weeks.

[AbitNutz]

Unique is good but I really like 5744 and a plug of closed cell foam. I found some 1/2" backer rod that is a yellow looking closed cell foam, not open cell. For whatever reason, Kynoch sells closed cell foam for this purpose. They say that closed cell is the thing to use and they being Kynoch, I believe them. It's really very easy to use and work with and I've had great luck with it.

[9.3X62AL]

I've found the 45-70 at 1873 intensities to be a reasonably docile shooting proposition. Either the 400 grainers at 1300 FPS or the 500 grainers at 1100 FPS aren't bad at all. I had a Ruger #1 in 45-70 for a long time, and ran loads through it that made my shoulder blades meet from recoil--a 350 grain bullet at 2150 FPS from a 7-1/4# rifle lets you know the primers functioned. No mas--sold the #1, have a Trapdoor and a Marlin 95 to play with, and neither gets run real hard. Big bullets knock things over. Decisively.

[Hick]

Lot's of truth in many of these stories. The real recoil question is really "how much fun is it to shoot." I've had surgery on my shoulder-- but I love to shoot what I have. There are some caliber's I would avoid, but I use a recoil pad on my shoulder for the rest. I suspect the guys who won't shoot a rifle due to recoil just weren't having enough fun with it.

[William Yanda]

Yeah, it happens. I stepped up to a bowling alley one time and rolled a strike. Finished with about a 113, but the look on my son's face was priceless. Another time I took a shot with a basketball and hit nothing but net. I knew I couldn't better that either.

[whisler]

In my younger days (early 20's) I met a young lady in a bar. We struck it off well, so when it was leaving time she said she would like to go bowling. I told her I was a lousy bowler (True, that) but sure, let's go. (she was a looker, as we used to say). I proceeded to bowl 2 games in a row very close to 200. Never did it again. Took a long time to convince her I wasn't lying.

[DocSavage]

Have had a Ruger No 1,1886 Browning and now a Browning 1885 and Shiloh Sharps 1874 all in 45/70 and have fired from mild to wild. The worst of the lot was the 1886 with it's curved steel butt plate. My Shiloh is a pussycat with everything from 300 to 520 gr boolits. Would love to have a double rifle in 45/70 some day.

[Artful]

I have a Marlin 45-70 Lever which isn't bad but I won't do a Ruger #3 in 45-70 with full power loads

[Artful]

I now have adorned myself with a new bit of wardrobe...a shooting vest with double thick layer of some sort of synthetic wonder padding that actually works...I have also invested in a Caldwell FCX Lead Sled...both are a miracle.

Great Story - and I love the PAST recoil pads

[stubbicatt]

OP. Hope you like your two boomers.

[rondog]

Don't forget to bring braggin' photos!

[Green Frog]

I have a Marlin 45-70 Lever which isn't bad but I won't do a Ruger #3 in 45-70 with full power loads

Amen to the #3! I know of one that went through at least two owners and three shooters without finishing the first box of factory 385 grain rounds!

Froggie

[dudel]

Good luck on your acquisitions. Sounds like great deals.

Bitz - loved your story.

I think you can learn to deal with recoil. About 30 years ago, I was a new shooter. I had a T/C Contender with 22LR and 357Max barrels. Hard to find 357Max ammo, so I shot lots of 22LR and 38 Spl rounds through it. It's a ***** cat. Barely a mouse fart from either of those rounds. For some unknown reason, I wanted a T/C barrel in .223. No earthly idea why other than the store/range had one in 14" and it called to me. LOUDLY. I bought it and a box of .223 ammo. Swapped in the new frame, loaded a round, snapped it shut, locked arms, aimed, pulled the trigger. Wah! No thanks. Took the barrel back to the counter and traded it for a used Aimpoint. Wanted nothing to do with that barrel.

Fast forward several years later. I had moved up to heavier rounds. Had the urge for another T/C barrel in .223. Found a good deal for one on eBay. Now with better control and better form, etc, it's one of my favorite combinations. Factory loads leave a huge fireball from the 14" barrel. Always a show stopper when someone next to me pulls out a loud 357Sig or 10MM. They soon realize the aren't the brightest or loudest any more.

I know there are 45/70 barrels for the Contender......

[dondiego]

I just shot my 45-70 barreled and 14 inch, 30-30 TC Contender yesterday. Not bad at all. I won't shoot my 10 inch 30-30 barrel with full power loads ever again though! It is for sale!

[AbitNutz]

I'd like to have one of those Magnum Research BFR revolvers in a gas seal configuration...I fired one in 30-30 and about set the shooting bench on fire from the cylinder flame front.

[fivefang]

I made up a 95styer reduced rim 45/70,must use clean burning powder or extraction becomes a problem

[skeettx]

Please read the owners manual on the Baikal it has pressure limitations printed even on the barrels
I like Remington Green box performance and cast bullets of the same pressure and speed.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=A0LEVv2DBnJWwS8ArswnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByO HZyb21tBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--?qid=20110305172707AA7Rhsb&p=baikal%2045-70%20pressure

Mike

[swamp]

You will like the Baikal. I have one and it is a lot of fun. I have a low power scope on mine. Shoots well and looks good. I shoot mostly the Lyman 457191 and a NEI collar button. The button makes for a fun time.
swamp

[AbitNutz]

I intend to shoot cast bullets exclusively in the Baikal so I think that 32,000 is more than sufficient to ensure fun. This is going to be a whole new realm of "making it shoot". I'm looking forward to regulating the barrels...or barrel. Only one barrel moves. I'm sure it's going to be really frustrating at times.


I'd really like to find a Ruger No.1 in 470 Nitro Express. I know they were made but I'm not sure if they were Ruger factory or some other method of custom manufacture.

I'm pretty sure that a Ruger No.1 is the only way I'd be able to own a 470 NE. I'm unaware of an "affordable" rifle in his caliber.

[jonp]

You always here the stories about recoil. There's always a guy that says he saw a someone at the range fire (insert insanely powerful rifle here) put it down and walk away, leaving the rifle to a new and happy owner. Or sell it for pocket change or...whatever. I really don't believe those stories but I'm really sure that more than one rifle has been shot just a time or two, put in a case and never fired again.

God bless 'em.

I picked up a nice Browning 10g like that. I used it a little and traded for something else for more than I paid for it. Had no use for the Browning but I know a deal when I see one.

[oldfart1956]

Hey AbitNutz congrats on your find and I hope the deal goes thru. Watching for an update. I've been trying to find just that rifle for a couple years now. Passed on one in .444 Marlin but one of the fellers here got it so that's good. Anyways, when it comes time to light that Greener/Martini off....no being a pantywaist! :) Full snort loads with big honkin' 500gr. boolits. Bigger would be better. No recoil pads ya sissy! Off the bench with the butt plate a half inch off yer coller bone an gitter done. Now if you tire of getting beat like a rent-a-mule....please contact me. Mebbe we could work a trade...ehh? Ruger Old Army? Let me know! Audie...the Oldfart..

[olafhardt]

My son bought a 458 Winchester made out of a Mauser to scare off the elefants. Works great. It'seems been a long time sense we saw one.

[AbitNutz]

I have the Greener-Martini in hand and am going tomorrow to pick up the Baikal...the greener is nicer than I thought it would be. It will soon be sporting a Marble tang sight and Creedmoor style globe on the front. This rifle falls into the category of "shot it once, that was enough". Barrel insides look new...

[Blackwater]

Artful and others with #3 Rugers, those CAN be improved substantially. I did one and it was amazing how much difference it made. Don't mean to hijack the thread, but FWIW, I cut the buttstock off at the right angle of pitch, square, and added a 1" thick Pachmyr 752B Decelerator pad, ground to fit the lines of the new butt. This left a hole at the top just in front of the pad's heel. I filled that in with some glass bedding colored black to match the pad, and used enough so it was proud of the wood, and finished it down so it aligned with the rest of the wood. Rounded off the butt's top contour, so it just looked better. Then set in on the grip, and slenderized it and gave it a larger girth at front than as it tapered back. This helped the right hand absorb at least a bit of the recoil, which in a light .45/70 is always appreciated. A little more control beats a little less every day of the week!

Then slenderized the forend by grinding it down so that the tip ahead of the barrel band was straightened out back toward the receiver, and contoured what I thought was a nice taper and form. Did away with the barrel band completely. Glassed the forend to the barrel full length.

It shot like it had eyes, and the recoil was much more amenable to an older guy's shoulder. I used 300 gr. bullets in it only, except for some not much above trapdoor velocity 400's, and they weren't bad either. A friend liked it so much, he traded me out of it when he offered me a sweet deal. It was later stolen when he moved to Chicago with his wife. I really liked that rifle, and was proud of what I'd done to it. Simple stuff, really, and didn't even take that long to do it all. And was it ever more worth it to me when completed!

Just thought you and some others might benefit from this? FWIW.

[2manygunz]

I just shot my 45-70 barreled and 14 inch, 30-30 TC Contender yesterday. Not bad at all. I won't shoot my 10 inch 30-30 barrel with full power loads ever again though! It is for sale!
Amen, brother! My first TC was 357 mag Octagon Barrel. Loved that gun, but thought it a little weak for deer. ( I was much younger then.) Bought a 10" 30-30 barrel and hit the range. Every time that 30-30 went off, I felt like someone wacked both palms with an 8 foot 2x4". The 30-30 only lived here a short while. Probably the only gun sell-off I don't regret.

[dondiego]

Amen, brother! My first TC was 357 mag Octagon Barrel. Loved that gun, but thought it a little weak for deer. ( I was much younger then.) Bought a 10" 30-30 barrel and hit the range. Every time that 30-30 went off, I felt like someone wacked both palms with an 8 foot 2x4". The 30-30 only lived here a short while. Probably the only gun sell-off I don't regret.

I still have it but I NEVER shoot it with full power 30-30 loads. Just light cast loads. Maybe if I mounted a 3 pound lead ingot under the barrel...........

[osteodoc08]

Wow! A Ruger No.1 anything for $400.00 is a bargain. I have a No.1 Tropical in 450-400 Nitro Express and shooting it with factory loads makes your eyes cross. It's fantastic!

Sorry this is so long but it's funny and it's true...

You know those stories where I guy walks up to a golf tea, bowling lane or basketball court and hits a a hole in one, throws a backhanded strike or drops one from half court?

I have one that actually happened, not to someone I know, or someone I heard about but to me....with my Ruger No.1 in 450/400 NE.

I had just gotten the rifle and never fired it. I was a little nervous as this was my first REALLY big bore rifle. I went to the public shooting range in Spring Valley Ohio with my whole damn family, including my incredibly annoying know everything son-in-law. I love my daughter but man, there is a limit.

Anyway, my wife set us up at the end bench on the 50 yard range. It was a Sunday afternoon and the place was packed with every splotchy faced teen that could scrape enough paper route money together to buy an AK or AR anything. She put up my spotting scope on its tripod and sent my other, more sensible, daughter down range at the ceasefire to set up some 12x18 blue stick up targets with a bright red circle.

I knew enough not to shoot the 450/400 NE from a seated bench. All I had on was a T-shirt. I opened up THE box of ammo (the only box at $112.00) and spilled them out on the table with a giant thunk. I held one up and the range officer came over to look....it's not a common round and I was holding it up like a radioactive Cuban Cigar.

From the standing position I tilted the rifle down, dropped the lever and pushed one in like I was loading a torpedo. Before I lost my nerve I snapped the breach closed, shouldered the rifle, got a quick glimpse of the target and cut loose. This thing just roared! The folks around me stopped shooting and the range officer was actually smiling. He never smiled all the times I'd seen him.

My son-in-law was looking in the spotting scope. He yells you hit it! I said well, of course. He said no, you hit the bullseye. I tried not to fall over from shock. I said well, that's what I was aiming for. He had never gone shooting with me before and while he knew I had a $hit load of firearms and reloading equipment of every description he had no idea what to expect regarding shooting ability.

I snapped open the rifle and caught the brass in the air as it ejected....another shock. I carefully laid the rifle on the bench and meandered over to the spotting scope. The hole was big enough for younger eyes to see from the line but God strike me dead, I had hit the center of the target. It wasn't precisely dead center but half of it had cut the red dot.

Now what do I do? Take another shot and miss the hill?? I looked at the my son-in-law and said. Here, take a shot. He looked like I was trying to hand him a live crocodile. He backed away, shaking his head and saying no thanks. Apparently this thing really looked like it kicked. It was then I realized that my shoulder was not enjoying the moment as much as the rest of me. I looked at the range officer...care for a go? Hell yeah! He said. I gave him a cigar and he fired one down range and put it on the paper at about the 9 ring. He handed it back and said, it's nice to meet someone who appreciates fine guns and knows how to shoot. We've been friends ever since.

I did not take a second shot. I proceeded to just jaw with him for a while and let the rest of my family shoot.

A most enjoyable story. I bet we could fill quite an entertaining volume or two with our members anecdotal stories.

[samari46]

While not in the same class as a 458 or even hot loaded 45/70, my 1944 russian m44 carbine in 7.62x54r with heavy ball does very well in the thunder and lightening show and actually is darned accurate. Was happily shooting it and being daylight didn't see much of the flame when it went off. Let one of my friends shoot it and stood off to one side. Every shot produced a satisfying blast and flame out the barrel. Have a Finn m39 trigger setup and will swap it out with the one that the russian was issued with. With that trigger you take up the slack wondering when it will go off and then it does. Frank