38-55 and grouping

[peter72]

Anyone have any suggestions as to why my first shot from a clean barrel will most of the time land low and to the right?
As you can see the rifle has accuracy potential.
Below is a 5 shot group at 100 metres.
This is quite common and has done ir over several 5 shot groups.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/14/928387a8fcbb252ebc95f50acbdb8e42.jpg

[JeffinNZ]

That is a very common phenomenon. The barrel needs to condition to group. Do you need to clean the barrel each time?

[peter72]

I usually clean the barrel once I'm done shooting for the day. In this instance I cleaned before the next group took see if i could replicate the issue that I've seen before.

[leftiye]

With the right lube you may not have to clean at all. Not saying not to clean, but it will do that from a clean barrel. Lube that leaves the least (but sufficient) in the bore will be best. Look at ultimate lube thread.

[50target]

I'd say you were being modest about it having accuracy potential. It is rare when you have a barrel that will put the first cold fouling shot in the group. All of my rifles, even those purchased new and broken in using a procedure a lot of folks use will do it. I typically will clean my bores but when shooting group will include an extra round and use another target for the first shot. Interesting after a few rounds to look at the group made by that first shot on the other target. I'd be crazy happy by that 4 shot group. If the load isn't leading and you're using smokeless, why clean ?

[Hickok]

What brand rifle and could you give us the load and alloy? (I promise I wont tell anyone!):bigsmyl2:

[peter72]

Interesting comments.
Rifle is a pedersoli Rolling Block Mississippi, it wears a Swarovski 2.5-10×40 hence the tight groups at 100 metres.
Loads are:
262gn cast at .381, sized at .380 and the bore is .379.
Alloy is approx 20:1.
Best load for accuracy is 19.5 grains of AR2207 which I estimate is approximately 1500fps.

[rr2241tx]

Sometimes you can get the first shot to join the group by experimenting with the OAL.

[fryboy]

That or prelubing the barrel before the first shot because the flyer seems to happen with that dry clean barrel ( eg; end the dry clean barrel syndrome )

[McLintock]

If the gun shoots consistent groups with a dirty barrel, no flyers, and you're only shooting smokeless loads, don't bother cleaning it very much. I had a Browning Traditional Hunter 1885 in 38-55 that I shot for almost 15 years in Cowboy Action Long Range Single Shot matches and rarely cleaned the barrel. It was very consistent with two different loads, both powder and bullets, one for up to 250 yards and one for out to 500 yards, and always dead on for my sight settings, always with a dirty barrel. In CAS you always have to start with a cold barrel for a ten shot string, so no warmers to get rid of a cold barrel flyer. Won two National Championships, a bunch of regional and local matches and hardy ever cleaned it. If on the other hand the groups get worse as the barrel gets dirty, then you have to clean it and you have a problem. Good luck with it.
McLintock

[williamwaco]

My 38-55 does that every time I change powder or lube. Just don't count the first shot.

[country gent]

One trick is once the barrel is cleaned and before the next shooting session work some of your bullet lube into a patch and runt this thru the bore 2-3 times coating it thougroly. Then a pass or 2 with a clean dry patch. This leaves a light fairly even coat of lube in the bore and may be enough to help keep the 1st shot closer to the group or in it. There are several things that can cause these walking shots. Clean bores, Harmonics from hot to cold change, internal stresses, and Shooter. Another trick is to dry fire 1-2 rounds before actually loading To solidify position and sight picture before sending first round down, this also helps to settle rifle into bags if shooting from a bench.

[srk]

Hi
Just my 2 cents but where is the barrel resting on 1st shot
If you look back, most shooting with high walls, Sharps, Rolling blocks,
barrel was rested on the bag and not forearm.
Have you ever noticed if the forearm is on the bag, first shot.
Then barrel only on the bags for the rest of the shots.
I have noticed bullet impact change if I mistakenly put the forearm on the bags instead of the barrel only.
Like I said just my 2 cents.
Cheers!

[peter72]

Thanks for the input gents.
The fore end is resting on a bag for all shots.
A lot of things to think about now.
I'll try a few things next time out, prelubing the barrel, and using a fouling shot.

[35 shooter]

Getting the first shot in the group from a cold clean bbl. has been the biggest challenge for me.
I live in a high humidity area and thought i had to clean the bbl. after shooting cast just like jacketed.

I have since realized i can go months before cleaning and the lube i use(Ben's Red) protects the bore.
However i still have a habit of running one wet patch of atf oil through the chamber and bore after shooting. Before shooting again, i run one dry patch
back and forth through the chamber, then straight through the bore and take it off before pulling the rod back through the bore.

The result for me is the first shot centered in the group@ 100yds. everytime from a cold, clean bbl.

It pays to experiment with different things and as has been mentioned with some lubes, a bit of the lube on a patch may work...in my case it was atf oil.

Lately i've been using the new BLL(Ben's liquid lube) and tumble lubeing.
I can either use the atf oil trick on a clean bbl., or just leave it fouled...either way the first shots are dead in the group.

I won't go hunting wondering where my first shot is going and it took a bit of experimenting, and trying different lubes,etc. The time spent was well worth it though!

[EDG]

I have cleaned my barrel between groups and then lubed the bore with the tiniest amount of Lee liquid alox on a patch.

When shooting a new gun once I did that between each round and it worked well but after the rifle was broke in I quit that. It was way too much work and
not enough shooting.

[skeettx]

What you have appears to be the normal happening,
For my hunting gun, I usually do not clean them after sighting in, until after the season is over.
This is not for black powder loadings :)

For target shooting, it is normal to foul the barrel before going for record

Mike

[oscarflytyer]

Target shooters trick. Fire one or two fouling shots, then start shooting for group. Always did this for competition, even with a 22 LR

[upnorthwis]

If I'm going to a match with no fouling shots allowed, I shoot a couple of rounds in the ground before I leave. I live way back in the woods so the neighbors are a long ways away. First shots not in the group seem to be Standard Operating Procedure with a clean barrel. If I'm shooting groups on my home range I'll shoot them in the target but only to satisfy my curiosity of where fouling shots go.