non-GC 30-30, Trail Boss, and killing power...

[three50seven]

I have a load for my Marlin/Glenfield 36G that is incredibly accurate. I don't cast, so I buy my bullets from Acme Bullet Company. They offer a non-GC 155gr RNFP sized to .309 with a BHN of 16. I load this over 8.5 grs of Trail Boss for an estimated 1125fps out of my Marlin. I can consistently keep my 100yd groups to 3" using a Williams peep sight. I have run this load through various online ballistic calculators, and it only produces 436 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle. That is obviously way below the agreed upon minimum of 8-900 ft/lb required for killing deer-sized game. I don't think I can push this bullet much harder since it is not gas checked...So, am I stuck with an accurate plinker that isn't capable of doing any more than a 22 mag?

[scattershot]

Looks like it. With that said, I know of deer that have been killed with a .380. My advice would be to enjoy the load for what it is, and either buy factory or reload to a higher level for hunting.

[three50seven]

I'm afraid you are probably correct. I know of deer killed with a 22LR, not that I would ever recommend it! I guess maybe I will stick to loading J-words using real rifle powders for serious work for now.

[castalott]

There a laws on how much gun you have to use on deer. But if you could take that back 200 years, it would look pretty good to the smaller things some used back then. That is not a wimpy load to me. I would think it would shoot thru a deer sideways out to maybe 50 yards. Never having done that though, I don't know. If you get to try it or know of someone who has, post it so we will all know.

What is the foot pounds rating on an arrow? Some of those are the nastiest things you can be shot with. A very soft boolet that would expand 'might' surprise use all.

Dale

[three50seven]

Castalott-
Actually, 30-30 isn't even a legal deer cartridge here in Indiana...We have some dumb laws, but that's another topic for another thread. I too thought about some of the cartridges used in the BP days that now seem so anemic but took countless amounts of game in the last part of the 19th and early 20th centuries. I wonder, despite what the ballistics look like on paper, what kind of short-range brush load this would be...

[three50seven]

Standard hard ball alloy, unless it is ballard rifled, it probably needs larger boolits. Have you tried 2400 or 4227 to get the fps up ~ 1500?
It has a micro-groove barrel. I have not tried either of those, but I have 2400 on hand, so I will give that a try.

[Mica_Hiebert]

My opinion is that bullet in the boiler room will kill just fine! Keep shots within 100 yards and expect to track 100 yards. I dont knpw where this notion that you need a huge bullet going twice/threce the speed of sound to humanely kill something came from! Its pure nonsence! 25/20 cute little guy used to be the standard for every thing from cotton tails to white tail deer. Little 87 grain bullet with not much velocity.

[Mica_Hiebert]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EBORz_9Qyzg you can skip to bout 7 mins in if you want to see hunting shots

[Wolfer]

I have to agree with Mica on this. Your load/ alloy certainly wouldn't be my first choice. But if you put it thru both lungs and possibly a shoulder it will certainly work. Blood trail may be skimpy and it could be long depending on wheather the deer spooks at the shot.
Ive found with sub sonic loads deer often don't spook like they do when shot with a modern rifle.
If 2400 pushes you too fast for plain base try some unique.

[fecmech]

Ive found 13 grs of 2400 with the 150 gr 311466 gets 1500 fps out of my Savage 340 30-30. You might get away without the gc. You won't know till you try.

[gnoahhh]

I have to agree with Mica on this. Your load/ alloy certainly wouldn't be my first choice. But if you put it thru both lungs and possibly a shoulder it will certainly work. Blood trail may be skimpy and it could be long depending on wheather the deer spooks at the shot.
Ive found with sub sonic loads deer often don't spook like they do when shot with a modern rifle.
If 2400 pushes you too fast for plain base try some unique.

This is true. Personally I would want a softer alloy, as heavy a bullet I can get away with in the .30-30 (for me that's a 190 grain with a wide meplat), driven as close to 2000fps as accuracy/leading permits. Taking an animal's life shouldn't be the result of stunt shooting IMO. They deserve to be dispatched as efficiently as possible.

[three50seven]

Taking an animal's life shouldn't be the result of stunt shooting IMO. They deserve to be dispatched as efficiently as possible.

I agree 100%. This is really more of a theoretical discussion I suppose. If I ever shoot anything with this load it will more than likely be a ground hog or other small varmint.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I've pushed plain based cast boolits out of a Marlin .44 mag rifle at just over 1800 fps with no leading, so don't let any "theoretical" velocity limitation hold back your efforts to crank it up a bit. I've used RL-7 with good success in .30-30 and cast boolits. I can't remember the exact recipe now from memory. Use starting load of same weight jacketed, and go from there.

[three50seven]

I've pushed plain based cast boolits out of a Marlin .44 mag rifle at just over 1800 fps with no leading, so don't let any "theoretical" velocity limitation hold back your efforts to crank it up a bit. I've used RL-7 with good success in .30-30 and cast boolits. I can't remember the exact recipe now from memory. Use starting load of same weight jacketed, and go from there.
I have Rel7, I'll give that a try as well.

[MarkP]

Nebraska deer hunting regulations; Rifles must have at least 900 ft-lbs at 100 yds and be 22 cal or larger; they just added two exceptions recently; 357 Mag & 45 LC rifles are legal. Shotgun must be single projectile 20 ga or larger. Handgun minimum of 400 ft-lbs at 50 yds, and no caliber restriction.

I believe they set the 900 ft-lbs minimum to wed out the 222 Rem as a legal deer round.

I know a guy who has successfully used his 30 M1 Blackhawk for deer, he hunts from a stand and I think they were head shots. My Dad always tells the story of when his friend just purchased the recently introduced 7 mm Remington Magnum and took it deer hunting; he shot a deer through the lungs and it ran over 100 yds with blood spraying out both sides. His other friend shot a deer with his Win 88 in 243 Win and it just dropped instantly. For the next several year everyone teased him about his super magnum compared to the little 243.

[MarkP]

I have pushed plain based in 38-55 to about the same speed with decent accuracy.


I have Rel7, I'll give that a try as well.

[35remington]

By checking the cartridge the gun's carrying. Ask me how I know. A 32-20 in a rifle would earn you some attention.

Incidentally, that's about what the OP's loading approximates. In effect it passes the eye test but fails the letter of Nebraska law....in fact it doesn't even come close.

[aspangler]

I have a load for my Marlin/Glenfield 36G that is incredibly accurate. I don't cast, so I buy my bullets from Acme Bullet Company. They offer a non-GC 155gr RNFP sized to .309 with a BHN of 16. I load this over 8.5 grs of Trail Boss for an estimated 1125fps out of my Marlin. I can consistently keep my 100yd groups to 3" using a Williams peep sight. I have run this load through various online ballistic calculators, and it only produces 436 ft/lb of energy at the muzzle. That is obviously way below the agreed upon minimum of 8-900 ft/lb required for killing deer-sized game. I don't think I can push this bullet much harder since it is not gas checked...So, am I stuck with an accurate plinker that isn't capable of doing any more than a 22 mag?
I wouldn't use that load on deer myself. I load the Lee 170 fngc over 30.5 gr IMR 4064. Averages 2025 for ten shots. Alloy is about 9BHN and deer are DRT with a heart/lung shot. Gun is a Marlin 336.

[TXGunNut]

I have a project involving a Marlin 336 and plain-based boolits. I'm presently using 2400 powder and have used 14 grs to reach approximately 1600 fps and 16 grs to attain around 1800 fps under a 165 gr pb boolit. Either would do as a short-range deer cartridge here in TX but my goal for this project is a cheap & fun plinker.