NOE 360 180gr fn (SIL) in Ruger Blackhawk

[tazman]

I recently purchased an NOE 360 180gr-fn(SIL) to use as a long range target boolit for my Blackhawk 357mag with 6&1/2 inch barrel(also a recent purchase). I understand there are people on the site who have used this boolit or the RCBS version with excellent results. My question is, how fast do you need to push it for best accuracy and stability?
My longest shot will probably be around 100 yards with most being less than that but I may go farther at a later date. Any details as far as lube used and other such things would be greatly appreciated. If I know what velocity to look for, I can develop my own powder charges.

[dragon813gt]

Responding so I can see the replies. That mold has been in my cart for a long time. I always take it out and buy another for some reason.

[GWM]

Funny, I have the exact same situation as dragon... what can I say? :roll:

[dubber123]

Did you get the GC or Non GC version? I have an original RCBS version, and it shot in right around 1.5" at 50 yards starting at 800 fps from a .38 Spl. I don't recall shooting any 100 yd. + groups. As 1.5" or so is about the best I can do with an iron sight handgun at 50 yards, I would say as long as your velocity is in the 800 fps. range when it reaches the target you will be fine. It may do well at lower speeds, but I have never tried it.

Another member who I trust on here, (Ca. state silhouette champ), uses this boolit, and his 200 METER groups run in the 2" range. He is starting them at around 1,500 fps though.

[tazman]

I got the gas check version.
They fit in the cylinder of my Blackhawk crimped in the crimp groove using magnum cases so no problem there, so I won't be limited to 38 special cases, charges, or velocities. However I expect I will try them in 38 just as a place to start and see what they do.
I was going to PM cbrick(I assume that's who you refer to) and ask him about his loads but he hasn't been on the site for a while.

[dragon813gt]

You can get ahold of Rick on another forum. If you need the link let me know and I will send it to you.

[tazman]

dragon813gt I sent a PM to you.

[fecmech]

Tasman--I think you will find that 296/H110 in max doses is the answer you seek.

[dubber123]

I got the gas check version.
They fit in the cylinder of my Blackhawk crimped in the crimp groove using magnum cases so no problem there, so I won't be limited to 38 special cases, charges, or velocities. However I expect I will try them in 38 just as a place to start and see what they do.
I was going to PM cbrick(I assume that's who you refer to) and ask him about his loads but he hasn't been on the site for a while.

Yes, it was Rick I was alluding to. My RCBS version casts at 198 grains out of WW when checked and lubed. Ricks loads are certainly warmish, and may be more than you want to shoot out of your BH on a regular basis. He shoots a F/A 5 shot .357, which is a bit stronger and heavier. I don't think you will need to go as hot as he does to find good accuracy.

[tazman]

Yes, it was Rick I was alluding to. My RCBS version casts at 198 grains out of WW when checked and lubed. Ricks loads are certainly warmish, and may be more than you want to shoot out of your BH on a regular basis. He shoots a F/A 5 shot .357, which is a bit stronger and heavier. I don't think you will need to go as hot as he does to find good accuracy.

Mine also casts heavy as does yours.
When I read that 1500fps number I was wondering what he used to get there. I haven't found any loading books that come anywhere near that velocity with heavy boolits. Most list loads that max out at around 1300-1350.
I don't think I will need to go with max loads for the ranges I will shoot.

[JSH]

Double post

[JSH]

There is an article at the LASC site on this bullet and loads. Though I think they were based around the FA. In my 10" TC I shot one of the loads and it is a tack driver. The bullet seems to perform better the harder you push it.

I have had had pretty good luck with it in my Ruger 357 max and IMR 4227. It doesn't shoot 2"groups@200, but will average around 6" if I am on my game.

[P Flados]

I recently started shooting the new Lee 200 as a PC coated checkless, and my maximums love it. I have not gotten down to finding a "regular" magnum load that shoots good yet.

If your boolit is close to 200 gr and want to "stay on the reservation" for a magnum, the following is the top load I found.

WW has 357 data with



12.4 gr 296, 1335 fps, 35000 cup



The above load is probably enough to make a 200 gr bullet happy out of just about any regular magnum.

If you are shooting the exact same gun that can handle a bigger cartridge (TC, Lever action, extra heavy revolver), it is kind of interesting to "do the math". For most (but not all cases) breech loads can be used for the comparison. The amount of force is simply base area times pressure. Here are the breech loads at SAAMI spec pressures




case od
area
SAAMI press
force



(in)
(sq in)
(psi)
lbs)


223
0.379
0.113
55000
6205


7-30 Waters
0.414
0.135
45000
6058


30-30
0.414
0.135
42000
5654


357 mag
0.379
0.113
35000
3949


357 max
0.379
0.113
40000
4513


44 mag
0.457
0.164
36000
5905


454 Casull
0.480
0.181
65000
11762



For some revolvers and lever guns, the 44 mag is the highest breech load from the applicable cartridges above. This scales up the 357 allowable to




case od
area
press
force



(in)
(sq in)
(psi)
lbs)


357 mag/max
0.379
0.113
52343
5905



The above will make lots of folks feel good.

The more insane comparison comes with things like the TC encore and FA revolver that can handle the 454. For these guns, any smaller cartridge will absolutely trash the brass long before the gun gets close to any limits.




case od
area
press
force



(in)
(sq in)
(psi)
lbs)


30-30
0.414
0.135
87377
11762


357 mag/max
0.379
0.113
104260
11762


44 mag
0.457
0.164
71707
11762

[dubber123]

Mine also casts heavy as does yours.
When I read that 1500fps number I was wondering what he used to get there. I haven't found any loading books that come anywhere near that velocity with heavy boolits. Most list loads that max out at around 1300-1350.
I don't think I will need to go with max loads for the ranges I will shoot.

I'm 99.9% sure he uses H-110. I have the same revolver as him, and although I have not chronoed my loads, (yet), I expect I am in the same 1,500 fps. range. So far brass life is very good, but I am not up to max the gun will handle. Some loads were printed back in the day that recommeended new brass, and to discard after 1 firing. They wouldn't hold onto a primer any longer. I don't think either of us need to load quite that hot :)

[chutesnreloads]

tag thread

[tazman]

I'm 99.9% sure he uses H-110. I have the same revolver as him, and although I have not chronoed my loads, (yet), I expect I am in the same 1,500 fps. range. So far brass life is very good, but I am not up to max the gun will handle. Some loads were printed back in the day that recommeended new brass, and to discard after 1 firing. They wouldn't hold onto a primer any longer. I don't think either of us need to load quite that hot :)

I don't think my Blackhawk is as strong as an FA revolver(assuming that is what you and Rick are using). I can't trust a load that heavy for my own use. I think I will work up to 12.4 of 296 and see how that works out for me.

[dubber123]

I don't think my Blackhawk is as strong as an FA revolver(assuming that is what you and Rick are using). I can't trust a load that heavy for my own use. I think I will work up to 12.4 of 296 and see how that works out for me.

That should do just fine, I am currently shooting a bit heavier boolit, about 220 grains, at about 2.5 grains higher charge. I believe pressures are likely in the 45-50K Psi range, a good bit over any currently printed loads that adhere to SAAMI specs.

I would bet you get into the 1,200 fps range, which should be plenty for 100 yard target shooting. Good luck, and keep us posted.

[tazman]

UPDATE--- I loaded some of the boolits up to high end 38 special levels in 38 special brass and took them to the range today. The groups weren't all that great. About 3 inches at 15 yards from a rest. I tried it in 2 different guns and the results were roughly the same.
I tried a different boolit and load and did much better so it wasn't the gun or just a bad day shooting.
I think I need to run them hotter to get a better group. That will have to wait until I can get to an outdoor range for testing magnum loads. The indoor range where I currently shoot will not allow magnum loads. I am about to get access to a different range with different rules. When I do, I will find out how magnum level loads perform.

[shoot-n-lead]

UPDATE--- I loaded some of the boolits up to high end 38 special levels in 38 special brass and took them to the range today. The groups weren't all that great. About 3 inches at 15 yards from a rest. I tried it in 2 different guns and the results were roughly the same.
I tried a different boolit and load and did much better so it wasn't the gun or just a bad day shooting.
I think I need to run them hotter to get a better group. That will have to wait until I can get to an outdoor range for testing magnum loads. The indoor range where I currently shoot will not allow magnum loads. I am about to get access to a different range with different rules. When I do, I will find out how magnum level loads perform.

You have to push the 180's pretty fast to get good accuracy. I have shot a TON of them and that is the case in every gun that I have shot them in...it is not the gun...gotta push'em fast.