Need Help Identifying K 98 Please

[Hamish]

A young man on a local internet page has this rifle up for sale, his pics are dark, sorry, I'm having trouble getting him to understand that I want to see proof marks, cartouches, etc.

155457155458155459

Between all wiki vomiting in his OP and subsequent posts, he's about 22 and thinks he's an expert, quoting "warbond" this, and "Polish capture" that, and his asking price of $800 reflects his lofty point of view,,,,,,

A little knowledgable help would be much appreciated.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I can't claim to be an expert on this particular rifle---but I do have one that is identical. Mine also has no markings on the receiver ring, and they may have been scrubbed. The fact that it says K98 on the side rail of the receiver is pretty strong indication that it was manufactured in Germany. I have heard the story two ways, (1) that these carbines were captured by the Polish forces, and (2) that they were given to Poland following WW I as war reparations. The K98 was originally developed during WW I for the Sturmtruppen and also issued on a limited basis to some branches like the artillery that favored a shorter rifle than the issue Gew. '98. Practically speaking, I don't know that a scrubbed K98 would have the same value (or less) than one still bearing the original maker's mark and date. Just me--I wouldn't dream of spending $800 for one, but I'm usually a little off on my assessments. I would probably be willing to spend $450 tops.

[leebuilder]

Need better pics. Looks interesting.

[JWFilips]

Nice but not $800 nice:shock:

[pietro]

.

IMO, the lad is trying to peddle a scrubbed German Kar-98 Mauser that somebody installed a Japanese Arisaka stock onto - and dreaming that he can get $800 for it. :veryconfu

AFAIK, the Arisaka is the only Mauser 98 derivative distinguished by forend finger grooves that long, with a 2nd band that far to the rear of the muzzle.

(Other 98 Mausers had forend finger grooves half that length, and the 2nd band about 8" from the muzzle.)

The metal isn't Arisaka, however - the Jap rifle has a signature round/knob safety that caps the rear of the bolt.

In any event, I'd advise anyone to steer well clear of that rifle - since the pic appears to show that the 2nd half of the serial number has been scrubbed :shock: from the LH side of the receiver ring (the full SN appears to be on the stock below the altered receiver SN, which does not satisfy BATF).


.

[LAGS]

You know that there will be a 20 year old Expert that will gladly pay the $800 for this rifle.
I too agree that it is some Frankinmauser.
Small ring, No or Dowelled Cross bolt, Finger grooves in the wrong spot.
Hmmm ?

[Hamish]

Personally I wouldn't pay more than four bills for *any* milsurp of this type to start with, but something about it just did not seem right to me, I couldn't find anything to even halfway peg it down. Thank you gentlemen for your posts!

I'm going to investigate further, if for no other reason than to figure it out,,,,,

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I'm looking at "Small Arms of the World", Seventh Edition, 1962, page 425 at the Kar98a, and the photo is identical to the rifle shown above, finger groove same length in the same location, barrel band in the same location, recoil lug bolt in the same location (but the one above appears to perhaps been filled in with something--perhaps just wood putty over the metal). In my opinion the rifle shown above is the genuine article. The serial number looks o.k. to me--it is four numbers followed by a letter, 1222? which is indistinct, but likely a capital D. Mine is 8***A. These do have small ring receivers. Still not worth $800 to me.

[Hamish]

G-hunter, would it be a violation of copyright for you to post the pic you are looking at?

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I don't know--I've never got the hang of scanning with my equipment. I could try to take a photo of the photo. Let me work on it awhile. I promise to return........

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Try this--just do an internet search--type in Mauser K98a. I tried it two different ways, and both time some nice color images came up.

[WineMan]

Interesting:

www.ycgg.org/pdfpages/ww1/kar98a.pdf

www.ycgg.org/pdfpages/ww1/kar98_long_version.pdf

Dave

[43PU]

That to me looks like a post war VZ24 with a Yugo hand guard, to me it looks like it is a mixed parts post war K98

Maybe worth 350$

[TommyT]

Pretty sure that's a Polish KbK Wz98. And yes...He's asking a bit much unless all of the numbers match and has an excellent bore.
http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Rifles%20of/Rifles%20of%20Poland.htm

[LAGS]

@ 43PU
That is NOT a VZ24.
You can just look at the side of the receiver and see that there is no step at the front of the receiver, so it is a Small Ring Receiver.
VZ24's are Large Ring 98's

[Hardcast416taylor]

Quite awhile I bought an Kar 98a from a guy that had chopped up the stock pretty bad. I found a Bishop sporter stock and used the issue sights for a long time. When I tried looking for a scope mount base for a small ring 98 there weren`t available. I recalled reading an article in Rifle magazine on how to make a guide scope mount on the rear sight. With the help of several machinests and welder friends I made a very nice guide scoped rifle. I`m wondering if a 93/95 mauser mount could fit this small ring 98?Robert

[Mk42gunner]

I used the Leupold one piece base for both the 98a's that I had. Seems like it was marked for both the 96 and 98.

Robert

[junkbug]

I once had a scrubbed Polish Kar98 that looked like that. Legend was that it was built post WWI in Poland off German machinery, and then sent to Republican Spain as aid before WWII. I don't know who scrubbed them, but they most were imported into the USA in the 1950's by Inter-arms. The angular stacking-hook is a pretty good give away. There is a very small specialized market in Spanish Civil War guns, but I don't know where the prices are at today. If he is local, ask to see it in person.

[koger]

I have put numerous one piece scope mounts made for 95-96 Mausers on small ring 98's!

[nekshot]

is it me or does that stock seem too petite for an original 98 battle rifle?

[S. Galbraith]

is it me or does that stock seem too petite for an original 98 battle rifle?

It does seem that way, but it might just be the angle of the rifle in the photo and the lighting conditions.

[Scharfschuetze]

I have a very nice Kar 98a and this rifle looks very similar to it. I will add that most of the Kar 98a carbines that I've come across were made late in WWI and carry Erfurt or Danzig markings on the "small ring" action. Serial numbers are normally four diget number with a lower case letter suffix and like all German weapons of the period that number or an abbreviation of it is found on all major parts of the weapon. All that I've seen are also marked Kar 98a on the left side of the action. There are probably variations out there, but that's what I've seen. They will also have the old Imperial proof marks on them. Mine has the marks on its beech wood stock as well.

Many of these K 98a carbines were double stamped in the early 20s with a new date when they were issued out to the the Weimar Republik police units. Mine is sans a second date, so it apparently was a war trophy and was not reissued... well, except to me.

If any of you are wondering what the little rod under the end of the forearm is, it is for stacking rifles. Usually three per stack when a unit is at rest in the field. Often the soldiers' web or leather gear would then be draped over the rifles to get it all off the ground.

The carbine below has a pristine bore and will shoot Sierra .323" bullets into 10 shot 1 1/2 MOA groups at 200 yards. Never shot it with cast boolits, so I don't know about that. So many rifles to shoot and so little time...

Reportedly, Poland either contracted for a similar carbine or made them themselves. I'm not sure which as I've never seen one. Guess I'll have to do some research after dinner tonight.

Here are some photos of my original Imperial German WWI Kar 98a made in Erfurt circa 1918 with its original sling. All the numbers match on this carbine, so you can compare it and its markings with the carbine you are considering.

[Scharfschuetze]

Ok, this should help clear up this conundrum.

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11157452

Looks like you indeed are considering a Polish version of the Kar 98a. This sales site has several good photos to confirm the veracity of your young expert. Looks like he's right, perhaps to the chagrin of a few :). Check out the price too. Show it to him and see if he'll match the price of this carbine. It looks to be in good shape (NRA Very Good = Average in my experience) although the bolt is not original to the carbine.

A little more research indicates these Polish carbines were made in the 1920s on machinery from the old Imperial German Danzig arsenal. Danzig became Gdansk, Poland after WWI.

There is some thought that many of these rifles were scrubbed for use in the Spanish Civil War which was just before WWII. Both the Nationalists and the Republicans bought weapons from any ready supplier. It is probable that the carbine in question was imported from Spain by the old Interarms company back in the 1960s during the halcyon days of surplus firearms.