Options in a wheel gun for CCW in 45 Colt?

[Fire_Medic]

Aside from maybe a Ruger Alaskan in 454 CAS (which shoots 45 Colt right?) what is is out there for a solid CCW option......

Just curious. I am leaning towards 45 Colt over 44 mag for the larger caliber and wabt to end up with a revolver or two paired with a lever action in the same caliber......

Thanks
FM

[truckerdave397]

Maybe a S&W mountain gun.

[ddixie884]

Good choice. I really like mine.

[Fire_Medic]

I thought those were only in 44 cal hmmm.......

[Vann]

I'm partial to the Ruger Blackhawks with interchangeable cylinders. 45acp is easier to find than 45 Colt most of the time, at least around here.

[Fire_Medic]

What's the difference exactly between the Black Hawks and Redhawks?

Thanks

[waksupi]

What's the difference exactly between the Black Hawks and Redhawks?

Thanks


Black Hawk = single action.

Red Hawk = double action.

[Fire_Medic]

Black Hawk = single action.

Red Hawk = double action.
But aside from that identical?

[Vann]

Smaller and a bit handier due to not having a lug under the barrel, same type sights, a little bit lighter.Every bit as tough.

[shooting on a shoestring]

Ruger has a new 4" Redhawk in 45 Colt with a round butt. It also comes with the cylinder cut for moon clips so it can fire 45acp as well. It's very similar in size to a 4" GP100.

[Petrol & Powder]

The first C of CCW stands for Concealed.
I'm already starting to question your logic.

As for Blackhawk vs. Redhawk; yes the Blackhawk is a single action revolver and the Redhawk is a double action revolver but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are identical beyond action type. That's kind of like saying a bicycle and a Ferrari are both land vehicles but with different propulsion systems. Technically true but not terribly relevant. Those are very different platforms.

As for 45 Colt vs. 44 magnum - that is an old debate that has filled many lengthy threads for far more pages than I care to read.
I will say that I owned, loaded for and shot both side by side. The 45 Colt has a longer history and is steeped in nostalgia. I'm sure the 45 Colt can be fine tuned to shoot very well but I'm convinced the 44 Magnum is easier to tweak. I gave up on the 45 Colt years ago.
If I was going to seek a handgun/rifle combo that used a common cartridge and it HAD to be either a 44 mag or 45 Colt; I would tend to gravitate to the 44 mag.
If it had to be a big bore and I could find a decent 44 Special DA revolver, that would be my cartridge of choice. The 44 Special is a far more friendly cartridge when you add the CCW criteria to the mix.

If I could drop the cartridge to a 38/357 class - there are a LOT more choices for a viable CCW gun and a companion common cartridge rifle.

[Fire_Medic]

I have no issues sticking to 357 mag P&P, I was considering a 3" GP 100 with a snubby SP 101 and then a lever action in the same caliber. You feel this would be a better route to go?

I appreciate your input as always, what led me to the 45 colt was reading that the pressure were lower and thus the recoil. And the 44 special is a cartridge that for a handloader has intrigued me for a very long time.

Thanks
FM

[Ramjet-SS]

I think the best bet is a Smith and Wesson Mountain Gun they are really fantastic and come available now and then on the different sites. If you were to get a nice st of custom round grips it would actually conceal nicely.

One other thing is to consider available cartridges loaded specifically for self defense. 45 colt actually has a good number mainly because of the Judge and other 410/45 Colt handguns.

44 special is an outstanding cartridge but components and commercially loaded SD ammo is not so available.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'm sure there are folks that can do great things with the 45 Colt but I think that fine old cartridge hangs on more from nostalgia than performance. I could never get it to match the 44's. I'm not saying the 45 Colt is bad round, it is a fine cartridge. I am saying that I found the 44 Special to be easier to dial in.
The 44 Special is a GREAT cartridge but the 44 magnum has just about killed it off. Double action revolvers chambered in 44 magnum will certainly shoot 44 Specials but it is more gun and cartridge than you need 90% of the time. A hot 44 Special (AKA Skeeter load) will get the job done most of the time.

Don't discount the 38 Special/.357 magnum, it is an extremely useful cartridge that is not only very effective in terms of terminal ballistics but also very accurate and inexpensive. Just in terms of lead and powder alone, the 38/357 will give you significantly more shooting for the dollar than the 45 Colt.

A GP100 paired with a SP101 would be an awesome combination. Both of those guns are rock solid performers. Reliable, durable, accurate, effective and inexpensive to feed.
You don't have to chase brass, either one will serve you well in an emergency, they are excellent values and I don't think you can wear either one of them out.

So, YES - I would go 38/.357

[Fire_Medic]

I'm sure there are folks that can do great things with the 45 Colt but I think that fine old cartridge hangs on more from nostalgia than performance. I could never get it to match the 44's. I'm not saying the 45 Colt is bad round, it is a fine cartridge. I am saying that I found the 44 Special to be easier to dial in.
The 44 Special is a GREAT cartridge but the 44 magnum has just about killed it off. Double action revolvers chambered in 44 magnum will certainly shoot 44 Specials but it is more gun and cartridge than you need 90% of the time. A hot 44 Special (AKA Skeeter load) will get the job done most of the time.

Don't discount the 38 Special/.357 magnum, it is an extremely useful cartridge that is not only very effective in terms of terminal ballistics but also very accurate and inexpensive. Just in terms of lead and powder alone, the 38/357 will give you significantly more shooting for the dollar than the 45 Colt.

A GP100 paired with a SP101 would be an awesome combination. Both of those guns are rock solid performers. Reliable, durable, accurate, effective and inexpensive to feed.
You don't have to chase brass, either one will serve you well in an emergency, they are excellent values and I don't think you can wear either one of them out.

So, YES - I would go 38/.357

You just reminded me of why we use to chat so much, please send me a PM as we have much to catch up on old friend.

Thanks for your input as always very grateful.

[RKJ]

Maybe a S&W mountain gun.

That's what I was thinking. I prefer it over my 629.

[StrawHat]

Here is a S&W M28-2 that I use for carry.
155433

I have done some changes on it to make it handle the 45 ACP cartridge.

Here is a S&W M22-4

155434

It comes from the factory chambered in 45 ACP and is a good candidate for carrying, actually, if I were to pin on a badge again, this is the revolver I would have on my belt.

Finally, here is a 1917 to which I have installed a 4" barrel.
155435

These are all similar to what you are considering but you want a 45 long Colt chambering. At some point, S&W has made versions of the 4" tapered barrel "N" frame in 45 long Colt. They are available but not commonly found. Much like the ACP versions, those who have them, tend to keep them.

I handload heavy boolits for the ACP and use them in the first two revolvers. The 1917 does just fine with hardball equivalent loads.

In my opinion, the only thing you would get by going with a Ruger 45 is a lot more weight. For many years, I carried a S&W "K" or "J" frame in 38 Special and felt fine with it. Now, I just prefer the 45 ACP cartridge.

Kevin

[Fire_Medic]

Thanks for your input Kevin, I have never shot a wheel gun in 45 ACP but someone who knows me well said that would cost me money lol......

[Tackleberry41]

45 colt is not exactly something easy to conceal, they tend to be pretty big guns. I wouldn't even try to conceal my blackhawk. My 45 ACP wheel gun isnt any smaller or lighter. Its winter so a long jacket, they can disappear for the most part. I go with concealed, that would be a 357 SP101.

When it comes to power, 44mag would have the edge, thats with factory ammo. Yea you can run 45 colt pretty hot, but your going to need a heavy duty gun to run those loads. And for self defense, not sure I would want to run hand loads, just less complications if you did need to use it.

[ole 5 hole group]

You could look at and consider a SW Model 25 with a 4 inch barrel. Running a 240 to 270 grain cast or jacketed 0.452" bullet at 900 fps will ruin any 2 or 4 legged animals day.
155438

[bedbugbilly]

I'd be checking one out like this one . . .

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570089

[dubber123]

I have a .45 Colt S&W Mountain Gun, and can highly recommend one. It has the good S&W trigger action, is a bit smaller overall than a Redhawk, and handles 300 grain boolits at 1,150 with no issues. Mine is about a 2-2.5" 50 yard gun, so plenty accurate for a carry piece.

[rintinglen]

Unless you live in antarctica, an N-frame Smith is only concealable in the same sense that a grapefruit under a napkin is concealed. It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but where I live, if you were lucky enough to get a CCW, you had better make sure it is not readily detectable. You get popped carrying because some concerned citizen spots your pistola and while you may not go to jail, you may get your license revoked for creating a public nuisance. Even if that doesn't happen consider the following.
In 1979 I was an arrogant young Customs Inspector. A few months before, a pair of Border Patrolmen had gotten inebriated in uniform and made donkeys out of themselves. The Director of the POE put out a memo that no officer under his jurisdiction was to purchase any alcoholic beverages while in uniform. Well, one hot summer afternoon, I got off work and felt the need for a brew or two. I took off my uniform shirt and pulled into a Circle K to get a six pack and a soda. I pulled out the tail of my t-shirt and stuffed my K-frame 38 under my belt beneath it and went inside. The air conditioning felt nice, so I did not hurry. I found a new issue of some gun rag, bought a fountain drink and a six pack, as well as the magazine, went out to the car and started reading the magazine while drinking the soda. I had scarcely finished reading the first article and still had half a soda to finish when suddenly a booming voice said "Driver of the vehicle, slowly raise your hands." I looked up to see a pair of two man Sheriff's Patrol Cars, the occupants of which all had firearms pointed at me. We proceeded to do the full felony stop drill before I was able to Identify myself as a Federal Officer. The clerk had noticed the butt of my revolver when I had bent over to pick up the beer and had called the Cops, carefully giving them my description, name, and License number.
Luckily for me, things turned out ok, once my ID was removed from my shirt pocket in the back seat. I got a "be careful, knucklehead", speech but at least they did not call my watch commander. It could have been far worse had someone blundered.
Unless you have a "Good Guy" tatoo clearly visible on your forehead, you need to be sure you keep your hidden surprises hidden. A gun that is merely covered may not be concealed and could result in unwanted fatal attention from the local authorities, especially in these unsettled times.

[Naphtali]

Without addressing its quality since I have neither examined nor shot one, the 45 Colt revolver most portable is the discontinued Taurus Total Titanium 5-shot in either 2-inch [ported] barrel or 4-inch barrel. They are about the size/dimensions of an S&W Model 10 snubnose or standard 4-inch Model 10.

If you prefer single action and want every shot to be as potent as possible, Freedom Arms' Model 97 as 3.5-inch round butt is tiny, weighing about 31 ounces unloaded, capable of accepting the pressures of a full-sized Ruger Blackhawk.

Hope this helps.

[Fire_Medic]

Thanks guys but this happened today so no 45 colt for the time being :)

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?294340-Gun-show-today-happy-with-my-trade

[doc1876]

I like your .357. That looks good, but I will still contribute to your original question, I love the .45 colt, and it can be loaded for a lot of great shooting. This is one of my choices for .45 colt wheelgun CW.

[Whiterabbit]

Snip, nevermind, i read too slow

[StrawHat]

...Unless you live in antarctica, an N-frame Smith is only concealable in the same sense that a grapefruit under a napkin is concealed...

Possibly the silliest thing I have read in a long time. Just because YOU can not carry an "N" frame in a manner undetectable by the average citizen does not mean it can not be done. I have been toting one of the three pictured in post #17 since I built it in the 80s. The others are merely iterations of the same theme. On my belt in either a Bianchi 5BH, a Safariland or a pancake holster of some kind. It is not only possible but doable with relative comfort. A good holster is the key, not tucking it under your belt.

Kevin

[Tackleberry41]

I guess we just have different ideas of 'concealed'. I carry concealed, I want no indication I have one, or have to worry its peeking out because I bent over. Here in TN we have open carry with a permit, so yea I can strap that big N frame to my belt and go to the store. But its just alot of gun to have hanging from a belt, I couldn't even imagine trying to stuff it in the small of my back inside my waist band. CCW I think most of us don't want to feel like we have a brick attached to our waist.

[Texantothecore]

I'm sure there are folks that can do great things with the 45 Colt but I think that fine old cartridge hangs on more from nostalgia than performance. I could never get it to match the 44's. I'm not saying the 45 Colt is bad round, it is a fine cartridge. I am saying that I found the 44 Special to be easier to dial in.
The 44 Special is a GREAT cartridge but the 44 magnum has just about killed it off. Double action revolvers chambered in 44 magnum will certainly shoot 44 Specials but it is more gun and cartridge than you need 90% of the time. A hot 44 Special (AKA Skeeter load) will get the job done most of the time.

Don't discount the 38 Special/.357 magnum, it is an extremely useful cartridge that is not only very effective in terms of terminal ballistics but also very accurate and inexpensive. Just in terms of lead and powder alone, the 38/357 will give you significantly more shooting for the dollar than the 45 Colt.

A GP100 paired with a SP101 would be an awesome combination. Both of those guns are rock solid performers. Reliable, durable, accurate, effective and inexpensive to feed.
You don't have to chase brass, either one will serve you well in an emergency, they are excellent values and I don't think you can wear either one of them out.

So, YES - I would go 38/.357


I know a number of retired policemen. They all carry a .38 special loaded with full wadcutters.

Very effective.

[Fire_Medic]

I guess we just have different ideas of 'concealed'. I carry concealed, I want no indication I have one, or have to worry its peeking out because I bent over. Here in TN we have open carry with a permit, so yea I can strap that big N frame to my belt and go to the store. But its just alot of gun to have hanging from a belt, I couldn't even imagine trying to stuff it in the small of my back inside my waist band. CCW I think most of us don't want to feel like we have a brick attached to our waist.

I guess it's a matter of preference. I amuse to 5" 1911's and full size glock pistols. And with my build and a good belt and the proper holster just in a t shirt I don't print at all. My wife doesn't even know half the time and she sees me put it on.

I also am not a fan of small pistols. I'd rather dress around a gun that offers me a proper grip.

But that's the beauty of it, we al have the freedom to choose what works for us.

FM

[Kraschenbirn]

155505You might try to find yourself one of the old 3" round-butt N-frames; as I recall, S&W made them in .357 Mag, .41 Mag, .44 Spl, .44 Mag, .45 ACP, and .45 LC. Mine (in the pic) is a .44 Spl and those are the factory grips. As mentioned, it's a bit heavy and on the bulky side for everyday CCW but I've carried mine for a lot of miles as a trail gun and, with the right holster, a light jacket or overshirt covers it quite nicely.

Bill

[Whiterabbit]

I like your .357. That looks good, but I will still contribute to your original question, I love the .45 colt, and it can be loaded for a lot of great shooting. This is one of my choices for .45 colt wheelgun CW.

Can you recommend a CCW holster for that? I have an identical model in an a large frame vaquero. I would like to be able to carry it on my slim and tall figure, but it's hard to find a variety of choices for CCW SA revolvers, particularly blackhawk cylinder size ones.

[doc1876]

Whiterabbit, I am fond of this one. I have others, but this seems to be the favorite.
it is from a Roy's Leather Goods, Magnolia, Ark. SA.44 020

[Whiterabbit]

Looks great, but how to buy one?

[StrawHat]

...But that's the beauty of it, we al have the freedom to choose what works for us... FM...

Well said.

Kevin

[Lloyd Smale]

ive carried my ruger montado 45colt on a number of occasions. Its plenty small enough to conceal.

[doc1876]

I did not know that they were out of business. My friend is a professional leather worker, and holster maker. If you wish, he could make you one. You can see his work here:
http://www.spaghettiwesternreplicas.com/index.html

Pm me, and I will give you his phone number, and you can discuss with him what you want, and I can loan it to him for the pattern.

[Whiterabbit]

Thanks Doc, but I need to wait for next year and the conclusion of the Christmas festivities to get this all going, so it may be a little while before I make good on that offer. I was hoping ot compile a list of vendors for future "shopping"

[TXGunNut]

155618Either one in a good holster actually hides pretty good with good clothing choices.

[Whiterabbit]

I'm really starting to think a cimarron is in my future.

[Combat Diver]

As mentioned Taurus made a 5 shot 2" .45 Colt. Smith as made a few carry .45 Colts find a 625-11!

both 625-10 (acp) and 625-11 (colt) (off the net)
http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t312/6pakawupass/IMG_1244a.jpg

one of the best CCW revolvers was Smith 3xx Night Guard series. Made in .38 SPL, .357, .41 mag, .44 spl, .44 mag and .45 ACP. You maybe able to convert one to .45 Colt.

325 NG
http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2013/01/23/906261_01_s_w_325_night_guard_for_same_m_640.jpg

Smith also made 325 Thunder Ranch and 325 PD both again in .45 ACP


CD

[MtGun44]

Thae .357 is a whole lot more concealable than an N-frame. An N-frame works under a down vest or similar
bulky garment, but otherwise, pretty hard to conceal, even with a suit coat or sport coat.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s220/ShawnTVT/Guns/New04.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/ShawnVT/media/Guns/New004.jpg.html)

[Lonegun1894]

Can you recommend a CCW holster for that? I have an identical model in an a large frame vaquero. I would like to be able to carry it on my slim and tall figure, but it's hard to find a variety of choices for CCW SA revolvers, particularly blackhawk cylinder size ones.

I have a couple made by Mernickle Holsters that I carry a Ruger Vaquero .45 Colt in, but I couldn't tell you current prices cause I have had mine 8-10 years now.

[gwpercle]

Taurus model 450 , 45 colt , 5 shot , 2 inch barrel , fixed sights.
I have this one chambered in 45 acp (model 455) and it works just fine CC , with inside or outside the waistband holster. Slightly bulkier than a J frame S&W but carries a lot of lead !
Mine is also very accurate.
Gary

[MakeMineLead]

I thought those (S&W Mountain Gun in .45 Colt) were only in 44 cal hmmm.......

There was a run of 5000 made some years back. I have one. I made my very best offhand shot ever with it, a steel ram @ 220 yards, with a cast Boolit of course ;)

If you want a 5" barrel .45 Colt caliber, find a S&W model of 1989. They made 2000 of those.

[ksfowler166]

It is amazing what people can conceal. A 4" N frame or similar is not unreasonable to conceal in a belt holster. For summer carry I would recommend a well designed, quality, leather IWB holster with 3" larger shorts than you waist size to start, add a tucked in light weight wicking under shirt and a untucked button down shirt and your good to go.

If you want an easily concealable gun you could make a Fitz special. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FitzGerald_Special
Fitz carried two Colt Newservice revolvers so modified in his pockets.

One thing I learned with carrying a S&W M19 4" was that a pair of Perry suspenders made the gun much more enjoyable to carry.

[roundgun]

Carried a S&W 325pd .45acp scandium frame like the one Combat Driver has in his post, its a very light carry gun. Also carried a Smith 625 4" steel .45acp and it can be done. These can be loaded pretty stout. For a fun piece take a look at the S&W 627 38/357 4 inch. Smith flattened the barrel to remove some weight and 8 rounds of .357 make for some strong medicine. All these revolvers can be quickly loaded with moon clips.

[jimb16]

I like my Blackhawk. And I've got a 94 winchester paired with it.

[Walkingwolf]

The first C of CCW stands for Concealed.
I'm already starting to question your logic.

As for Blackhawk vs. Redhawk; yes the Blackhawk is a single action revolver and the Redhawk is a double action revolver but I wouldn't go so far as to say they are identical beyond action type. That's kind of like saying a bicycle and a Ferrari are both land vehicles but with different propulsion systems. Technically true but not terribly relevant. Those are very different platforms.

As for 45 Colt vs. 44 magnum - that is an old debate that has filled many lengthy threads for far more pages than I care to read.
I will say that I owned, loaded for and shot both side by side. The 45 Colt has a longer history and is steeped in nostalgia. I'm sure the 45 Colt can be fine tuned to shoot very well but I'm convinced the 44 Magnum is easier to tweak. I gave up on the 45 Colt years ago.
If I was going to seek a handgun/rifle combo that used a common cartridge and it HAD to be either a 44 mag or 45 Colt; I would tend to gravitate to the 44 mag.
If it had to be a big bore and I could find a decent 44 Special DA revolver, that would be my cartridge of choice. The 44 Special is a far more friendly cartridge when you add the CCW criteria to the mix.

If I could drop the cartridge to a 38/357 class - there are a LOT more choices for a viable CCW gun and a companion common cartridge rifle.

Exactly, a large frame DA revolver IMO is not really concealable, for most people. Maybe up in Alaska a person could CC one year round. Now a three inch SA revolver might be, it has a smaller diameter cylinder than an N frame size. I tend to like 44 spl for SD, than 45 LC. There are some 5 shot 44 spl, and 45 acp options for CCW.

Now talking OC is whole different story, lately I have been OCing both a S&W Model 21, and a Pietta SA 1873 both loaded with 44 spl. Just because I can.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

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