Hard to clean bore with CB

[cityjack]

Afternoon all,

First time posting here although I have been shooting lead wadcutters almost exclusively for 20 years. Copper when it came time to hunt, but almost always lead only for target, plinking, and IDPA.

I have always had a hard time keeping the bores, grooves, and lands clean like when using copper plated rounds. I have recently purchased some 9mm dies and was asking some questions of other 9mm shooters their pet loads for such. I saw a lot of comments where people were not so successful or at least as successful as when shooting copper rounds for accuracy or tight groupings. I really want to continue to shoot CB. One of the reasons is because the gentleman who I buy my CB from is a retired gentleman who enjoys getting a check from me every now and then and I enjoy paying him for his craft. Plus they are cheaper than the plated rounds. I feel like I am doing a good thing helping him put food in the cupboard and pay some bills. His .45 ACP bullets are spot on, ALWAYS! I figured I'd try his 9mm castings. But these stories I'm hearing have me thinking.

Also, any suggestions on any better cleaning techniques? Lewis lead remover maybe?

Thanks all and have a great holiday.

Sid

[lobogunleather]

The 9mm Luger cartridge was the first I ever reloading, starting in 1971, and the first for which I cast bullets, starting about 1973.

Serious leading problems are usually related to one of two factors: (1) inadequate bullet hardness for the load being used; (2) inadequate lubrication for the load being used.

The 9X19 is a relatively high pressure cartridge, with working pressures similar to .357 magnum. Smacking a lead bullet on the behind with sudden application of high pressures and combustion temperature can melt the bullet base, causing lead smearing in streaks through the bore. Bullet upset resulting from the high pressure impulse can cause leading deposits as the bullet passes through the rifled bore.

I have found that relatively hard bullet alloys alleviate most problems. I like my 9mm pistol bullets to have a minimum hardness of 12BHN (equivalent to older wheel weights), and 16BHN (higher antimony content, which I obtain by alloying WW with about 25-30% linotype metal) is preferable. Bullet diameter for the 9mm with cast bullets is usually .356". Some guns will handle .357", but many will not due to tighter chambers.

Personally, I have always used NRA Alox-formula lube, but others have had good success with the newer hard lubes.

Powders in the middle of the burning range (Blue Dot, AA #5, etc) have given me good results, which I credit to a slower rise in peak pressures. My cast bullet loads are primarily for practice use, so I do not go for max performance; working up my loads until pistol functioning is good (usually 5% or so under max loads). Fast-burning powders (Bullseye, etc) have very fast pressure curves, and frequently very high flame temperatures, which can be damaging to relatively soft cast bullets.

Cleaning a pistol used with cast bullet loads is not usually difficult, but it is different than for jacketed bullets. My first step is to use a dry bronze bore brush, which will physically remove just about any lead residue in the bore (heavy leading just requires more passes with the brush). Really serious fouling can be removed with a worn bore brush wrapped with a bit of 0000 steel wool (an approved method in US Army arsenals). That is followed by solvent and patches to remove powder residues.

A short-cut method for dealing with bore leading is to fire a few rounds of jacketed ammo after your cast bullet shooting session, then cleaning normally as for jacketed ammo. Always remember to thoroughly clean out all copper jacket residue because it can have a negative effect on cast bullet accuracy.

If I were using bullets produced by someone other than myself I would concern myself primarily with hardness (bullet alloy) and type of lubrication, then I would stick with moderate loads of medium-burning powders rather than hot loads or faster burning powders.

[cityjack]

Afternoon sir,

Well you have certainly given me a bunch to consider here. First, I want to thank you for taking the time to reply at length. Many thanks for that.

I just got off the phone with my casting friend in VA. He tells me the BHN is in the neighborhood of 12 - 13 BHN. The blue lube on the bullets he uses is from a company called Ballisticast. Not sure what that is though.

I have not loaded any 9mm yet but with the RedDot and this gentlemans .45ACP, I do get fouling. Maybe I need to change from RedDot for the 45 as well. I need to learn about these pressure curves I see if I am going to continue using these softer bullets.


Thank you so very much again sir.

Sid
Sid

[bangerjim]

Powder coat all your rounds. If they are sized correctly to start with (VERY IMPORTANT!!!!), PC is cleaner than grease lubes. PC is NOT a fix-all for ill-sized castings. Slug your bores if you want to know what size to to for. 0.002 over is a good rule of thumb.

Check out the alt coatings threads. Easy and inexpensive to do. Thousands of us are doing it....for over 3 years!

I have not cleaned lead out of any of my many guns since PC'ing. Only a single patch.

And, NO.....PC does NOT wear out your barrel! (forget that wive's tale if you read it somewhere).

FMJ's do much more damage than PC.

bangerjim

[cityjack]

More to read at the house once I get out of work. thank you very much for your help.

I'll be back tonight.

Sid

[cityjack]

Evening guys,

So this powder coat you speak of, is this something I dip my bullets in before seating into a case mouth?

Sid

[bangerjim]

Evening guys,

So this powder coat you speak of, is this something I dip my bullets in before seating into a case mouth?

Sid

Read the thread in the alternate coating section to learn all about PC'ing.

You either dry tumble them or spray them with an ESPC gun and bake in a toaster oven.

Lots to read.............lots to learn!

banger

[twc1964]

Fit is king my friend. I shoot a glock 9mm with boolits sized to .358. I also powdercoat them. Many 9's like a fatter boolit when it comes to cast boolits. You may or may not have to seat em a bit deeper to chamber em but you will most likely get rid of the leading if the lube is doing its job. Consider powdercoating though, it makes things a bit easier. Ymmv

[JWFilips]

With proper fitting cast boolits I do not have to clean my bores until things go south. Granted Revolvers need a bit more attention because of the forcing cone But my rifles seldom get cleaned before 700 rounds or better! That's when you know things are working well

[bangerjim]

PC is NOT a cure-all for poor fitting boolits. It is a clean replacement for grease lubes. I used to get some leading with T/L and P/L....not much...but a little. And definitely with com-cast slugs!

Now with PC.....never a speck of Pb in the tunnels. And no grease smoke or sticky boolits in the summer or in my pockets!

Check it out. But as said....FIT IS KING!

And I also found all MY 9's love 0.358 sizing. And that .356 six cavity mold Lee makes caused horrible cycling hang-ups due to the fat shape of the nose. My MiHec brass molds have more of a "leaner" taper and no hangup's. Your mileage may vary.

Good luck!

bangerjim