Drinking off the range

[waksupi]

Someone at our club brought up the idea that no one should be allowed to drink during the day in camp while the range is open. The camp is well separated from the shooting range. They are concerned it may be a bad influence on younger participants. I told them to mind their own damn business. What are your thoughts?

[Dan Cash]

I agree.
Banning drink will not stop anyone from consuiming.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I hear you allow people to express their opinions. I suppose it depends what kind of camp and what kind of range. If guns shouldn't be handled on the same day as drinking, it pretty much means that guns shouldn't be handled at all, which few would endorse. If it is a camp where you find families and spectators, or people will be present after or many hours before shooting, such a rule seems excessive. In the most compelling cases, you would probably need to examine their Coke bottles for drill-holes. But if people are present purely to go straight from lunch to the firing-line, such a rule seems reasonable.

[Smoke4320]

If well separated from the range and drinking individuals do not partake in gun handling till clearly sober I don't see an issue
The difficulty is in the policing of that

[Tackleberry41]

Yea banning things always works.....oh wait never mind.

How do they expect to enforce this ban? And how do they know someone drinking at the camp is going to the range?

I went to a cubscout camp w my son recently, they had bans on EVERYTHING. No alcohol obviously, thats fine its a cubscout camp. But even smokers had to go hide somewhere, it could not be in sight of a child. Not that anybody seemed to pay attention to the ban, nor was anybody enforcing it. Some of it was pretty dumb, you had to haul in and out firewood. After it was all carried out of the trailer and stacked up, come time to leave, alot of it was still left. Why not just leave it for the next people, nope has to be hauled back out. No fires on the ground, so a metal plate had to be hauled in with bricks under it, whats wrong with a fire ring? I know usually these rules come about due to someone doing something stupid, so just make a rule, no more problems.

But saying grown men cant drink at a hunting camp because they might go to the shooting range?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Keep drinking responsibly. Kick out any trouble makers. More rules won't make irresponsible people responsible. Gun laws are a testament to that.

[akajun]

Not a hunting camp but our rifle club bans alcohol on the property due to our insurance. We have never had a problem enforcing the rule, even after a big match.
Now the Hunting club I run, we have no range during deer season, and I do not ban alcohol drinking during the day. However If I suspect someone is intoxicated while hunting I will ask them to sleep it off, if it becomes a problem, they wont be a member anymore. I have never had a problem here either.

[Vann]

I don't agree with not drinking at the club. My rules would be no drinking on the range period, and if you go to range drunk you escorted off and banned from the range.

Of course you could always appeal being banned, and use a strike three rule, but alcohol makes people do stupid stuff and has no business on a gun range.

Just my opinion.

[NavyVet1959]

It's the neo-Prohibitionist attitude of people these days. It started with those damn MADD fanatics. Back in the day, the local "range" was just the local trash dump. We used to go there all the time and shoot at cans and bottles (no recycling back then either) and no one got shot in the process. Maybe we were smarter than the people these days? Drinking and shooting were two parts of the social culture at the time. Being able to combine them made it all the better. Kind of like drinking and fishing. These days the neo-Prohibitionists have screwed things up so much here in Texas that you can actually get charged with "Boating While Intoxicated (BWI)" in a sailboat, canoe, or kayak. You can't get a BWI while floating down a river in an inner tube, but if you were to use a paddle (or even your hands) to propel yourself, you could technically get charged with BWI. Oh, and you can get a BWI if you are skiing behind a boat.

If we go back to steel dashboards and no seatbelts, can we also get rid of the open container laws and go back to the old blood alcohol percentages? Darwin will be there to protect us, right? :)

"Charter member of DAMM -- Drunks Against Mad Mothers"

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I belong to a shooting club/range with in excess of 1,600 members. Absolutely no alcohol or drugs permitted--you will lose your membership if caught. Drunks and guns don't mix, we would lose our insurance, and just one such accident makes us all look soooo bad! The shooting fraternity really doesn't need that type of publicity, especially now days, and it's always an innocent party that gets shot.

[dragon813gt]

Don't come to the firehouse I belong to. One Sunday a month there is a board shoot. The gun rack is in the bar. The participants are drinking at the bar as the even goes on. It's different than a range but alcohol and firearms are still mixed. I've been in less safe situations at ranges where alcohol is prohibited.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If well separated from the range and drinking individuals do not partake in gun handling till clearly sober I don't see an issue
The difficulty is in the policing of that

I agree that it is very likely unnecessary, and certainly that enforcement would be difficult. But as a general principle the dangerous problem isn't the person who has difficulty remembering that a straight line is the shortest distance between two points. He has probably given up on shooting as a satisfactory activity, long ago. It is the person who has taken the smaller amount which gives him an exaggerated idea of his abilities and what is safe, and that can be very difficult to detect.

Nearest thing to effectiveness, and possible on a paid-for hunt or at a subscription club, is getting people to make an undertaking not to drink. When there is a quid pro quo there is a contract, to which you can tag conditions. At the very least that would probably cut down on people the problem drinker could drink with, or who would think him the very devil of a fellow for doing it through a straw.

[Uncle Jimbo]

Having owned a bar for 28 years, I've only got these few things to offer.

If people want to drink, they will find away.

A drunk persons words and actions are a sober persons thoughts.

Instance anus orifice, Just add alcohol.

Those people who are responsible won't do anything to put others or their self in danger and those who can only think about their self will do what ever they want.


:bigsmyl2: Did you know that you can't write "*******", it edits it out. :bigsmyl2:

[Ithaca Gunner]

They should mind their own damn business, (another charter member of DAMM here). The N-SSA range and campgrounds for artillery teams is less than 50yds with a simple dirt road separating them. I was an artillery member from 1974-2000 and as of then, we had zero alcohol related mishaps, ( and very few other mishaps for that matter) and beer, whiskey and moonshine flowed abundantly during the evening hours. One member of an adjoining team did dig a puking pit once, well roped off with caution tape on stakes. I don't think anyone fell in it, at least that they would admit to.

[MBTcustom]

Im really glad I don't have to deal with this sort of horse manure, and I'll keep my thoughts to myself about the shooting practices of the people I hang out with (except to say they're all going to get a good laugh when I bring the subject matter of this thread up).

That said, if I were in a position where some do gooder felt a need to impose his paranoid values on those around him (some people are so scared of people as stupid as they are, they become brave enough to tell grown, armed men what they are and are not allowed to do? Sigh)
I would suggest a compromise. Seems to me, that a rule should be set forth that no adult person who is legally able to own and shoot firearms shall participate in shooting sports when he is not in control of his firearms on account of booze, weed, lack of sleep, or prescription medications.

I would further set forth that a 6" steel target will be set up at 20 paces. If someone is accused of "shooting under the influence" they shall be required to not shoot this target for 5 minutes counted off by the accuser.

At the end of this time, they will be required to shoot and hit this 6" steel target while the rest of the members of camp witness from a safe distance.

If the accused party fails in either of these two tests of personal firearms aptitude, he will be kicked out of the camp immediately without the option to return.
However, if he successfully completes both of these tests, his accuser will suffer the same fate, and will be banned from camp immediately without the option to return.

This will encourage everyone to keep their shooting skills sharp, take a drink with caution, and keep their pansyazzed busybody comments to themselves unless they have a very good reason for singling out a certain person who's behavior is scaring them.

[bstone5]

At our shooting Gun Club alcohol is not allowed on the range at any time.

Any alcohol found on or in an individuals car results in an instant removal from the Gun Club.

[jmort]

"The camp is well separated from the shooting range."

That is my thought on the matter. Non-issue.

[wv109323]

I would never be a member of any organization that mixed alcohol and guns at the same time. Alcohol impares. Do you favor dropping all DUI laws and allow drinking and driving?
If you allow drinking while shooting then Hillary Clinton is right when she said gun owners is a bunch of drunk,gun toting people.
I think we should present the best image possible to the public especially if youth are involved. Would you also allow recreational marijuana smoking and shooting?
Drinking should only be allowed after all firearms are put away and shooting has ceased for the day.

[dragon813gt]

Some of the clubs I belong to have bars in the clubhouse. Rule is once you drink you're done shooting for the day. I have no issues w/ this.

[MBTcustom]

Some of the clubs I belong to have bars in the clubhouse. Rule is once you drink you're done shooting for the day. I have no issues w/ this.
Seems simple enough to me.

[Rufus Krile]

I suspect NavyVet and maybe a couple of others here will remember an organization named "The MARGBM&LRBA" from the old Ed Zern articles in 'Field and Stream'. To the uninitiated, this is the Madison Avenue Rod, Gun, Bloody Mary, and Labrador Retriever Benevolent Association. Alas, I too have been known to pull the occasional cork... and it really doesn't have to be much of an occasion... but I don't tempt the fates and handle firearms after doing so. There was a famous small bore silhouette match that had Budweiser as one of the sponsors... complete with a keg-filled trailer to dispense their product. In the 25yrs that this was held there were NO problems. All shooters maintained discipline (this is, after all, considered a discipline). There was a one-time only incident involving underage drinking but it was so swiftly dealt with that few even knew of the occurrence. The long and short of it I guess is that if I can't trust someone around alcohol, do I really trust them around guns?

[Love Life]

I told them to mind their own damn business. What are your thoughts?

My thoughts.

[adrians]

I don't drink , but if all "safety" rules are observed I see no problem with mature responsible folks who want to partake in a dram or two in camp who am I or anybody else to ask that they don't....

Tell em to mind their own damn bizzness :twisted: :drinks: :twisted: .......... again...

[MUSTANG]

If I am in a "Camp" I'll drink if and when I decide to. As to others in the camp; I do not associate with idiots or drunks so their drinking is not a problem for me. If I am hunting or shooting, I know that alcohol affects motor skills- why would I want to affect my motor skills when I am either seeking to kill game in a humane manner or perform my absolute best on the target.

To reiterate - I do not associate with idiots or drunks so their drinking is not problem for me.

[Char-Gar]

Some of the clubs I belong to have bars in the clubhouse. Rule is once you drink you're done shooting for the day. I have no issues w/ this.

Good way to approach the subject.

[brtelec]

"The camp is well separated from the shooting range."

That is my thought on the matter. Non-issue.

This thoroughly sums up my opinion.

[trapper9260]

I do not go to any range or club.I made my own range in my back yard of 100 yards and that is it. For me I just do not want to be around people I do not know with a gun.So i keep to myself and away from it all.

[therealhitman]

Oh. Wow. I....Well...I mean...

Wow.

Is this a real thread?

[therealhitman]

... I just do not want to be around people I do not know with a gun.

Heck, I don't want to be around PEOPLE these days. Even the sober ones.

[Whiterabbit]

Some of the clubs I belong to have bars in the clubhouse. Rule is once you drink you're done shooting for the day. I have no issues w/ this.

I agree. I understand a shooting club with a small site and insurance requirements. Fine. But a hunting trip, hunting camp, etc. Or even a large club "with a bar in the clubhouse". This seems reasonable.

[Finster101]

Waksupi, I'm in the same camp as you.

[swheeler]

With the camp and range well seperated I don't understand why it would be an issue. Sounds like some well intended liberal trying to ram this down everyones throat.:drinks:

[Maximumbob54]

Keep drinking responsibly. Kick out any trouble makers. More rules won't make irresponsible people responsible. Gun laws are a testament to that.

I don't believe I would have said that better so I'm just copying what SF said.

[Buck Neck It]

No whiskey!? No cigars!?

You need to find a better class of friends.

[Outpost75]

I belong to a shooting club/range with in excess of 1,600 members. Absolutely no alcohol or drugs permitted--you will lose your membership if caught. Drunks and guns don't mix, we would lose our insurance, and just one such accident makes us all look soooo bad! The shooting fraternity really doesn't need that type of publicity, especially now days, and it's always an innocent party that gets shot.

^^^ What he said!

Serious insurance issue which shouldn't even require discussion among adults.

[montana_charlie]

How is marijuana classified, these days?

[dtknowles]

One size does not fit all.

Tim

[KenH]

if I can't trust someone around alcohol, do I really trust them around guns?

Seems like sound logic to me

[waksupi]

I will point out this not only would cover shooters, but also traders and non-shooters who never go near the range.

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

I shot the winter trap league while on a work assignment in Wisconsin. The trap club had a bar. People drank both before and after shooting. There was never a problem. Been that way for decades. People were responsible and did not try to shoot if they had too much. Personal responsibility and integrity goes a long way.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

My gun range has a rule stating, "No public consumption of alcohol before noon on a Sunday."

[dtknowles]

My gun range has a rule stating, "No public consumption of alcohol before noon on a Sunday."

Now that is just silly.

Tim

[dkf]

I shot the winter trap league while on a work assignment in Wisconsin. The trap club had a bar. People drank both before and after shooting. There was never a problem. Been that way for decades. People were responsible and did not try to shoot if they had too much. Personal responsibility and integrity goes a long way.

I've been around that too. Everyone HAS to have rules and regulations for everything these days, even a lot of the old timers that remember what some freedom was like. They seem to love the nanny state type rules keeping them in line.

[GabbyM]

Here in Central Illinois we have clubs that allow drinking and clubs that do not. I've belonged to most of them at one time or another. I follow the rules of the club I am at. What I don't do is join a club that's been around since the 1940's then strut up spouting off how the members should be living there lives. No matter which side of that fence they stood on.

[varmintpopper]

How would You feel about the pilot on Your flight haveing a few drinks just before time to land ?
Thats how I would feel about Boose on the range. Just My Two.

Good Shooting

Limdy

[Boogieman]

One drink and your done for the day.

[atr]

there are two thing I NEVER do:
I never drink when I know I am riding my motorcycle
I never drink or allow drinking on or near the gun range

[Vann]

The club that I shoot at only has one rule when it comes to drinking. The rule is after you put your guns up your free to drink, but no drinking while shooting.

Our insurance dictates the rules, we can't afford to lose it.

[dragon813gt]

One drink and your done for the day.

Why? Your body cleans itself out at the rate of one beer per hour. So one beer, wait an hour, no longer impaired. I do understand why a bar at a club will cut you off. But on your own property it's foolish to think you can't shoot for the remainder of the day if you tipped one back at 10am and didn't drink any more.

Some of you guys have ridiculous notions. Seems that you want to be coddled by regulations to protect you from yourself. What happened to personal responsibility?

There have been many times where I started drinking during a board shoot and didn't finish all the rounds. I knew I had to many. Very rarely do they have to tell someone they are no longer allowed to shoot. Part of being an adult is being responsible.

[jcwit]

Why? Your body cleans itself out at the rate of one beer per hour. So one beer, wait an hour, no longer impaired. I do understand why a bar at a club will cut you off. But on your own property it's foolish to think you can't shoot for the remainder of the day if you tipped one back at 10am and didn't drink any more.

Some of you guys have ridiculous notions. Seems that you want to be coddled by regulations to protect you from yourself. What happened to personal responsibility?

There have been many times where I started drinking during a board shoot and didn't finish all the rounds. I knew I had to many. Very rarely do they have to tell someone they are no longer allowed to shoot. Part of being an adult is being responsible.

While I agree with you to a point, there way to many that do not get this. This is why we have so many drunk driving killings.

But in saying this, I have no solution to this, it is something we all live with.

[Love Life]

All I know, is that I feel much better when people take it upon themselves to protect me from myself. That way I am assured of never causing harm to myself. If I do, then I'm suing everybody and buying a lake front Cabin/lodge/mansion on Lake Tahoe.

[montana_charlie]

But on your own property it's foolish to think you can't shoot for the remainder of the day if you tipped one back at 10am and didn't drink any more.
On my own property there are no rules to break, or obey. But, I would not probably be inviting people who can only make it to 10am before getting into the alcohol.

[dragon813gt]

Maybe they work third shift and that's their party time ;)
There are a bunch of guys that are at the firehouse when they open in the morning because they work third shift :)

[GabbyM]

Well after every club member gets to add his own rule to the books. Then the HOA (home owners association) from the nearest town get to throw there's in. Come around once a week to see if your lawn is proper. Check the safety of your lawn chair hinges, then set a fine on your infractions.

[Mica_Hiebert]

I have shot at trap/skeet clubs that had a beer license with the after shootings done clause, ive shot at ranges where no drinking is permitted any where on the property. I personaly have enjoyed a few beers while plinking on the property while never allowing myself to be impaired but thats my decision, as far as not drinking at camp because of kids I have a story not many will agree with but I hung out with a group of 3 brothers back in high school whos dad drank beer as a substitute for water and the boys where allowed to drink beer under one condition that once they cracked a beer they where home for the evening and at home was the only place they where allowed to drink alcohal, now as iresponsible as this sounds while all the other kids in town where sneaking out getting drunk, getting killed in dui wrecks leaving partys these guys stayed at home and respected the rules their parents laid down, they got good grades, they ALL went on to get college degrees never got in trouble with the law and didnt grow up to be raging alcohalics.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

I think Ric should clarify the situation For you guys.
I THINK this is a BP muzzle loader club during a "ron-dy-voo" (hick spelling intended) where there are traders, & other events.
I see no issues with folks not on the firing line enjoying themselves.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Made the mistake of riding 4 wheelers into one of them ron-day-vooz one time to see if it was something i could get into. I like my muzzle stuffer! Never been treated so poorly in my life rudest bunch of **** tards i ever ran across in my life contex of this post makes allot more sence now!

[JWFilips]

Drinking in camp is fine but how do you prevent those folks from shooting on the range? Breath a lizer tests? It's bound to happen! I ran enough events to know the problems! ended up with shooting events from 10 am to 12 pm just hoping things would run smooth. ( still had a few!)

[Beerd]

have some rools and dog soldiers

[jaysouth]

I don't drink or shoot with anyone who is not responsible to do both. I have shot skeet at many clubs with bars and restaurants where shooters had a drink between rounds. Never saw or heard of a problem.

Maybe shotgun shooters are more responsible that people that shoot metallic cartridges, or maybe fewer of them project their fears, phobias, and weaknesses on other people.

My current rifle and pistol club has two simple rules on the subject. No drinking on the range. No shooting if intoxicated. It has worked well for us for many decades without us becoming nannies.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Well them mountain men traded w injuns at them rawndevooz too so its undertsandable not wanting all the fire water drank up...

[NavyVet1959]

I have to suspect that if you made two rules, the (non)problem would solve itself...

1. Beer can only be drank from glass bottles
2. You cannot shoot the glass bottles

Might need a third rule though...

3. You must take all your glass bottles home with you.

:)

[AK Caster]

Someone at our club brought up the idea that no one should be allowed to drink during the day in camp while the range is open. The camp is well separated from the shooting range. They are concerned it may be a bad influence on younger participants. I told them to mind their own damn business. What are your thoughts?

Drinking has no place anywhere close to a range.

[GabbyM]

Made the mistake of riding 4 wheelers into one of them ron-day-vooz one time to see if it was something i could get into. I like my muzzle stuffer! Never been treated so poorly in my life rudest bunch of **** tards i ever ran across in my life contex of this post makes allot more sence now!


Only in your mind it does. What sort of person would ride a 4 wheeler into a camp?
Donald trump landing his helicopter on the grass would of been treated much worse I'd imagine. You are supposed to walk in silly. You still don't get it years later do you. But you think yourself so superior as to be in a position to make rules to force upon others. You seriously think there should be a law against people not being just like you!

[TXGunNut]

Just got back from deer camp, a Bloody Mary is customary when returning to camp for breakfast and a bottle or two of good bourbon and a decent Scotch is on the table when we get back from the stands in the evening. Guns are not handled in camp.
I take my shooting and drinking very seriously, I enjoy each activity immensely but never together. I won't shoot or even handle a firearm except to put it away after having a drink. I think a carefully controlled vendor area at some activities would be a nice place for a drink and I'd be happy to join a gun club with a bar on the premises but if that were the case at my club some guys would probably never go home, lol.
Back in the day a certain pistol team was known for "shooting wet" and some shooting boxes were designed to hold a beer for a quick sip on the line. Soon after I started shooting match directors were able to get them to wait until they were thru shooting but even then the smoke had scarcely cleared before a beer was cracked.
Bottom line: Responsibility. I'm very aware that any shooting accident these days will be judged harshly. A shooting accident involving alcohol will be judged especially harshly. I won't set your standards for you but I'll expect you to act responsibly. I can assure you I'll act responsibly as well.
The excuse about youngsters present is a bit weak with me. Youngsters who witness responsible drinking and gun handling are likely to benefit from the experience.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Only in your mind it does. What sort of person would ride a 4 wheeler into a camp?
Donald trump landing his helicopter on the grass would of been treated much worse I'd imagine. You are supposed to walk in silly. You still don't get it years later do you. But you think yourself so superior as to be in a position to make rules to force upon others. You seriously think there should be a law against people not being just like you! there where old timers riding their modern horses around too but it was ok cuz they where members... Its.not like I came bombing through the camp I didnt even get that far I got about to where they all had their cars parked and when i started asking questions about their event i was surounded by 5 buck skin clad wanabees attacking me verbally for not being a member of their club, my mode of transportation, my atire, tresspassing (property not posted) club? More like a cult! You can have it!

[GabbyM]

Drinking has no place anywhere close to a range.

If that is your opinion. Then stay away from ranges where you do not approve of there behaviors. That is your right. What is not your right is to tell others what to do and how to run there PRIVEATE club.

That said. I've never held a membership at any of the clubs that included a bar in eh club house. I have shot many trap and rifle matches at such clubs. No one made me go shoot there. Drank a few beers while I was there too. Out at our farm we do some shooting at family get together. No one shoots if they are drinking. Never been a conflict. As we shoot early in the day. Plus it's just a given rule as it's all family and that's the way it is. If the neighbors down the road wish to live different. Like drink whiskey then shoot apples off there children's heads with bows and arrows. Then so be it. I just will not go over and visit on that day.


Maybe someone can show me a single incident in the last fifty years where a man was shot at a club when it was blamed on booze. As far as I know here in C. Illinois no one has ever been hurt at a gun or sportsman club in any fashion booze or not. Fact is Shooting sports are not dangerous. Then the OP stated this whiney complainer stated bad influence upon children. Thus even he knew there was no safety issue. Just some of you left over abolitionist pushed your vial hateful anti human rhetoric into the discussion. Maybe due to your frustration of not being able to rule others you think you can spout off here on the internet with no complications. Guess what. You are chastised. Only a fool can even start to think they can live there lives the way they wish while at the same time dictating to others how to live there's. Then there are Communist who want to be ruled no mater what. In order they may also rule others. That is some SIC stuff there. Now hold up a mirror and look deep into it.

Your best friend
Your worst enemy
Take your pic
I'm good either way

[GabbyM]

there where old timers riding their modern horses around too but it was ok cuz they where members... Its.not like I came bombing through the camp I didnt even get that far I got about to where they all had their cars parked and when i started asking questions about their event i was surounded by 5 buck skin clad wanabees attacking me verbally for not being a member of their club, my mode of transportation, my atire, tresspassing (property not posted) club? More like a cult! You can have it!

OK that does sound like an unfriendly bunch.
Sometimes however there is a reason for that. Like over in Charleston Illinois back around 1982 when e were polite to a fellow who rode up on his bicycle. Turned out he was the leader of a cult of imports from Chicago who had within the last year built a pile of hulking McMansions over a mile away. Part of the EIU collage scum. slid down from Chicago where they were no dought rubbing elbows with the likes of BO and Ayres. That was Sunday. Monday morning he filed his law suit that lasted years. Stuff like that is what ends up creating an uncivil society. Then you of course get dysfunction. You wanted to join but they saw you as an intruder. Thus the libs with there law suites win in the long run. Then you blame it on drink. Fact is drink does not change what people think Just makes them belligerent about it. Passing another law to create more law suites will not make it better.

[waksupi]

I think Ric should clarify the situation For you guys.
I THINK this is a BP muzzle loader club during a "ron-dy-voo" (hick spelling intended) where there are traders, & other events.
I see no issues with folks not on the firing line enjoying themselves.

That is right, rendezvous, and the point is, the rule would apply to non-shooters in the camp, that never go near the range. No one would think of drinking and shooting here. The range officers would be real pricks about that, I know, I am one.

As far as 4 wheelers in camp, the land owner is the only one that can do that here, and he seldom does. No other vehicles, except for loading and unloading camps. Try it at a nationals, and you would have a swarm of hornets on you.

[starmac]

IT's for the kids, next year somebody will decide their kid will be permanately damaged if he catches a glimpse of a peace pipe, or cigar, then next it might be someone doesn't want their kid exposed to a campfire. There is no end to it.

[popper]

As a Baptist, I don't drink (more than anyone else). Anyway, most states have laws against booze and guns in the car. Same logic. Put your gun away after shooting, before drinking, then nothing bad can happen.
Boy Scouts have 'gone to pot'.

[Mica_Hiebert]

Im sure looking at their perspective i may have been the umteenth intruder to come cruising up disturbing their nestalgic gathering with my modern ruckus to the point they just started being rude and running people off but i was genuinely interested in their gathering and learning more about what they where doing and i was treated so badly that it left a bad taste in my mouth.

[GabbyM]

Im sure looking at their perspective i may have been the umteenth intruder to come cruising up disturbing their nestalgic gathering with my modern ruckus to the point they just started being rude and running people off but i was genuinely interested in their gathering and learning more about what they where doing and i was treated so badly that it left a bad taste in my mouth.

I think you are entitled to be offended. Question is who is to blame. Probably best to just write it off then get on with it.

Life is more like walking past one vacuum after another sucking on you. Rather than walking past one beautiful flower after another. Just the way it is. If you don't like that. Then try being the flower people walk past instead of the vacuum. Since you can not change the way people treat you but you can decide how you treat others. Then you may find you receive what you put forth. Or maybe not. Treat people the way you know you should. Not how some insurance company says you should. Based upon there last law suite.

[MaryB]

So set a time, no drinking until all events are done for the day!

When I was still deer hunting(before we lost our leased land) we had a rule. No more than 2 beers with lunch. Once the guns were put up for the night drink all you want but if you are hung over in the morning no pity. We will roust you out at 5AM no matter what! Only once did one of the guys have to stay home for the day. he drank hard until 1AM and was still wasted in the morning. We told him to eat and go back to bed, he wasn't allowed out in a stand that day. He didn't argue either, he knew the rules!

If people are adults and they use common sense then I see no problem with it. If you have a bunch of idiots then no, they should not be allowed to drink. Every group is different and the membership is different so it all depends on the people!

[David2011]

A friend of many years and I are both appreciative of a quality rum and have shared many. We agreed about 30 years ago to never pop the cork until finished with power tools for the day. When I got my first reloading press we extended our rule to gunpowder and we have never imbibed prior to shooting. To this day I follow "our rule." On the other hand, I will always look back fondly on the evening we closed down a beach bar in Cane Garden Bay on the last evening of their summer tourist season. De owner say, "Everting on the house tonight. We ain' gonna open anyting dat ain't awlready open but everting else on me. Jus' tip de bar tender."

We openly discuss this subject at our hunting lease. Alcohol is not acceptable in the hunting areas but is OK back in camp, with discretion. We are always mindful that our youngest hunter is only 11 and there are many minors present. I'm the sole member of the lease that isn't part of a single extended family and their offspring so we watch carefully how we influence the kids.

David

[GabbyM]

Some of you people are just nuts in a basket.

five o'clock ten o'clock./ OK at what time of day do you have the write to dictate to others then still have the right to be a free man in America. Oh I forgot, you are a free man but others under your level are not. What a pile of communist BS. I could get pure hateful here in short order.
So after all what do you think of the color of the car I drive?

[GabbyM]

A friend of many years and I are both appreciative of a quality rum and have shared many. We agreed about 30 years ago to never pop the cork until finished with power tools for the day. When I got my first reloading press we extended our rule to gunpowder and we have never imbibed prior to shooting. To this day I follow "our rule." On the other hand, I will always look back fondly on the evening we closed down a beach bar in Cane Garden Bay on the last evening of their summer tourist season. De owner say, "Everting on the house tonight. We ain' gonna open anyting dat ain't awlready open but everting else on me. Jus' tip de bar tender."

We openly discuss this subject at our hunting lease. Alcohol is not acceptable in the hunting areas but is OK back in camp, with discretion. We are always mindful that our youngest hunter is only 11 and there are many minors present. I'm the sole member of the lease that isn't part of a single extended family and their offspring so we watch carefully how we influence the kids.

David

David why should you have too explain yourself to these idiots.

[RogerDat]

Being responsible means not needing a rule to tell you that the time to drink is after the range time is finished for the day. It means having self control enough to not be "that guy" that is at camp being a drunken butt munch. Especially not if there are public and or family events in close proximity.

People in a group have a right to set standards the group feels are appropriate. Since we are talking about groups you don't have to be involved with if you find the rules not to your liking then move on. Too tolerant or too restrictive you are free to not be with them.

All that said I would think the opportunity to demonstrate responsible behavior around alcohol would be beneficial to younger people, which may mean no drinking or it may be allow but should probably have separation between drinking and shooting range activities.

[Rick Hodges]

Another rule to fix a problem that only exists in the mind of the proposer....it is BS. If they don't like it find another place to hang out.

[NavyVet1959]

Another rule to fix a problem that only exists in the mind of the proposer....it is BS. If they don't like it find another place to hang out.

Agreed... I'm sure there is some Morman group that they can hang out with that will accommodate their neo-Prohibitionist / neo-Puritan attitudes.

[AK Caster]

If that is your opinion. Then stay away from ranges where you do not approve of there behaviors. That is your right. What is not your right is to tell others what to do and how to run there PRIVEATE club.
That said. I've never held a membership at any of the clubs that included a bar in eh club house. I have shot many trap and rifle matches at such clubs. No one made me go shoot there. Drank a few beers while I was there too. Out at our farm we do some shooting at family get together. No one shoots if they are drinking. Never been a conflict. As we shoot early in the day. Plus it's just a given rule as it's all family and that's the way it is. If the neighbors down the road wish to live different. Like drink whiskey then shoot apples off there children's heads with bows and arrows. Then so be it. I just will not go over and visit on that day.


Maybe someone can show me a single incident in the last fifty years where a man was shot at a club when it was blamed on booze. As far as I know here in C. Illinois no one has ever been hurt at a gun or sportsman club in any fashion booze or not. Fact is Shooting sports are not dangerous. Then the OP stated this whiney complainer stated bad influence upon children. Thus even he knew there was no safety issue. Just some of you left over abolitionist pushed your vial hateful anti human rhetoric into the discussion. Maybe due to your frustration of not being able to rule others you think you can spout off here on the internet with no complications. Guess what. You are chastised. Only a fool can even start to think they can live there lives the way they wish while at the same time dictating to others how to live there's. Then there are Communist who want to be ruled no mater what. In order they may also rule others. That is some SIC stuff there. Now hold up a mirror and look deep into it.

Your best friend
Your worst enemy
Take your pic
I'm good either way

When the op asks for an opinion he gets them. Get off your high horse

[Smoke4320]

Well I can sight one instance where a father shot and killed his son
late 80's or very early 90's I belonged to a club in Morvin NC. I quit there 2 weeks before this incident because of their drinking habits..
Fellow named cooter drank most of the night like many in this club.. hitting the bed about 2-3AM
next morning everybody gets dropped off at stands.. Cooter is 1 stand down from his son
Son shoots and wounds a deer .. dad goes to help track deer . son comes from behind tree and father shoots him in the back thinking its the deer ..dad was still hung over

first he should have never been allowed to hunt but was good buddy to club chairman

[waksupi]

So set a time, no drinking until all events are done for the day!

The usual last shoot of the day is a candle shoot, after dark. That makes it kind of late in the day.

[dtknowles]

The usual last shoot of the day is a candle shoot, after dark. That makes it kind of late in the day.

Like I said earlier, this is not a one size fits all problem. Common sense, logic, local customs and people involved are all considerations. I have shot a lot where there are actually no rules except county, state and federal laws, absent landowners. I have packed up and gone home when I was uncomfortable but that did not happen much. I actually like the no rules, common sense approach but with some people that just does not work. When you have a lot of people you are bound to have some idiots and that is a problem, rules or not.

Tim

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If that is your opinion. Then stay away from ranges where you do not approve of there behaviors. That is your right. What is not your right is to tell others what to do and how to run there PRIVEATE club.


Of course it isn't for him to decide what people can do in their private club. It is for the club members to decide, but it is for him, if he wants, to express his opinion that no drinking at a time when it could affect gun handling is a good way to do it.

About a million years ago when the world was young and I was a university fencer, the team captain had a pint of beer about an hour and a half before a match. His manner was no more affected than anybody else's would be, but in fencing it was just like he was swimming in something a shade more substantial than air. The layman wouldn't have noticed a thing, but it was serious. What is even worse, he had no awareness that anything was wrong, or why he kept losing. He was fine that evening, but someone on a deer hunt or target shoot mightn't have been.

[bedbugbilly]

I don't know . . . whenever I was "riding the range", I drank when I got thirsty 'cause you never knew where the next water hole was . . . and so did my three legged horse. Oh wait a minute . . . wrong range and wrong beverage!

I'm not prude and I don't care if others drink . . . but there is a time and a place for it. For one thing, the facilitys's liability insurance is going to have a LOT to say about it . . . and these days . . you darn well better have a liability policy.

I've read most of the posts and some say that if you prohibit the drinking, you will loose members. Maybe so. But drinking and shooting should be two different hobbies. After the range is closed for the day . . . . have at it if my must. But if a person has been drinking, my feeling is that they shouldn't be shooting. Most folks have common sense . . but others . . . especially those who imbibe every day . . . don't. In their minds they may be just "fine" to shoot. I'd disagree with a lot of what I've seen . . . and these are the same ones who drink more than they should and then get behind the wheel of a car to drive. I've scrapped up too many of those . . . or their innocent victims over the years.

Just as some say . . you might loose members if you prohibit it . . but then again . . . you might loose member if you don't prohibit someone who has been drinking from shooting on the line. I, myself, have packed up and left ranges where someone is drinking and shooting . . the more beer that flows and is consumed . . . the more reckless the shooting in many cases. I have seen many others as well And I have been on ranges where there are RO that have removed those drinking and on one occasion, the guy was so snickered that the RO called LE and they confiscated his firearms on the spot and arrested him for drunk and disorderly and endangerment with a firearm.

Fun is fun and there is no reason that at any range or camp, fun can't happen. But the range needs to be liquor free and the camps policed by members so that it doesn't get out of hand. And if the camp/range is open to the public . . . the impression the club leaves on them should be the most imprtatant factor as far as what behavior is accepted.

If someone disagrees with me and what I think . . . so be it and I don't really care. If it gets beyond "safe" - then that should dictate the rules.

[NavyVet1959]

There was a shooting club in the Houston area that I went to a couple of years ago that I had considered joining. They had a picnic area near the shooting ranges, but they had a rule about no alcohol even in the picnic area. I decided that I didn't want to do business with them, even though they were cheaper than the other options around town. Up until recently, I would just go to the local sandpit and couild shoot (and drink) whatever, whenever, and as much as I want, but after it filled up with water after the Brazos flooded earlier in the year, it never seemed to dry out and I had one less area to go shoot. The city is also trying to develop some sort of park there (industrial, maybe), so it's not as remote as it used to be. Oh well... There goes the neighborhood... :(

[waksupi]

I was happy to get this response back from the club president. Apparently the newsletter was poorly worded.

Ric -
I like a cold beer at camp too. I wish someone else was typing out the newsletter that could get the wording right, as this is gonna raise a lot of hackles and upset a lot of good folks. I don't have anyone to proofread or make suggestions as to the wording. I should've said something like "no drinking while shooting" and as we see on nearly all flyers for shoots that no smoking or drinking is allowed ON THE RANGE. Obviously when someone is done with their shooting for the day or have completed their aggregate and have a day or two to spare, by all means, enjoy your camp. (or someone else's.) I didn't mean to imply curfews and rigid rules.
I apologize for the misunderstanding and I will have to apologize at the next meeting and in the next newsletter. What was in the newsletter is not a bylaw or club rules. Also, I am personally to blame because I didn't IMMEDIATELY approach a shooter at the fall shoot who I observed drinking a beer before the shoot began. So now I'm learning the hard way.
I'm sure I'll be getting more flack. Anyway, thanks for your input Ric and I hope you'll come share your views at the next meeting. I'll see you in the morning at Lapps.

[Ithaca Gunner]

I was happy to get this response back from the club president. Apparently the newsletter was poorly worded.

Ric -
I like a cold beer at camp too. I wish someone else was typing out the newsletter that could get the wording right, as this is gonna raise a lot of hackles and upset a lot of good folks. I don't have anyone to proofread or make suggestions as to the wording. I should've said something like "no drinking while shooting" and as we see on nearly all flyers for shoots that no smoking or drinking is allowed ON THE RANGE. Obviously when someone is done with their shooting for the day or have completed their aggregate and have a day or two to spare, by all means, enjoy your camp. (or someone else's.) I didn't mean to imply curfews and rigid rules.
I apologize for the misunderstanding and I will have to apologize at the next meeting and in the next newsletter. What was in the newsletter is not a bylaw or club rules. Also, I am personally to blame because I didn't IMMEDIATELY approach a shooter at the fall shoot who I observed drinking a beer before the shoot began. So now I'm learning the hard way.
I'm sure I'll be getting more flack. Anyway, thanks for your input Ric and I hope you'll come share your views at the next meeting. I'll see you in the morning at Lapps.

Okay, that's nothing but common sense. Unfortunately these days, some common sense needs to be enforced and constantly reminded.

[opos]

I was in a conversation similar to this a while back...the guy was sort of "baiting me" with tongue in cheek as I am one of those folks that can't drink anything successfully...tried for a lot of years and failed miserably frequently...sober 35 years now so any drink and shoot or drink and do anything else is probably not going to happen. I got no dog in the fight except if I'm uncomfortable in a place where there are guns and alcohol I simply excuse myself.

I did have one comment for him...many folks CCW and my concern for a person having a few snorts is that he/she may find themselves in a place where they are faced with decisions involving a gun while the alcohol is a possible impairment.

I think each person has their own responsibility and their own method for handling things...when I was a drinker I went a ton of places with my kids (Boy Scout camp at Catalina, Disneyland, many family functions and events) were alcohol was either banned or not a good idea...I never failed to have my trusty camera bag over my shoulder and there was always a men's room nearby. And yes...vodka does smell....point is if someone is like I was and get's into a situation they will probably have a bit of something hidden away and can be really cagey about it...or if it's too difficult to sneak the booze at all..they will simply not go.

I don't trust guns and alcohol...but then I seldom am around drinkers of any sort these days..just no fun any more.

[KAF]

What is the infatuation of consuming alcohol? It is a drug the fogs the entire body. IF somebody is drinking and holding a loaded gun, he is a problem waiting to happen. The problem could close a shooting range. Kinda of a stupid idea to drink and shoot.

[NavyVet1959]

What is the infatuation of consuming alcohol? It is a drug the fogs the entire body. IF somebody is drinking and holding a loaded gun, he is a problem waiting to happen. The problem could close a shooting range. Kinda of a stupid idea to drink and shoot.

If you can't handle your alcohol, then by all means refrain from drinking before / during your shooting. For some of us though, we know our limits and we should not be penalized for your lack of self-control. Believe it or not, some of us even manage to drink while casting and reloading.

[KAF]

Proves my point..............

[Lloyd Smale]

I hunt with adults. If there was someone so stupid as to start shooting while drinking he would have been weeded out of camp years ago.

[kenyerian]

I suspect NavyVet and maybe a couple of others here will remember an organization named "The MARGBM&LRBA" from the old Ed Zern articles in 'Field and Stream'. To the uninitiated, this is the Madison Avenue Rod, Gun, Bloody Mary, and Labrador Retriever Benevolent Association. Alas, I too have been known to pull the occasional cork... and it really doesn't have to be much of an occasion... but I don't tempt the fates and handle firearms after doing so. There was a famous small bore silhouette match that had Budweiser as one of the sponsors... complete with a keg-filled trailer to dispense their product. In the 25yrs that this was held there were NO problems. All shooters maintained discipline (this is, after all, considered a discipline). There was a one-time only incident involving underage drinking but it was so swiftly dealt with that few even knew of the occurrence. The long and short of it I guess is that if I can't trust someone around alcohol, do I really trust them around guns? Ed Zern and Patrick McManus would have a field day writing about this thread.

[TXGunNut]

If you can't handle your alcohol, then by all means refrain from drinking before / during your shooting. For some of us though, we know our limits and we should not be penalized for your lack of self-control. Believe it or not, some of us even manage to drink while casting and reloading.


Exactly! I personally don't drink while shooting, casting or reloading but have no doubt some folks can and will do so safely and responsibly. My approach is consistent to the KISS philosophy, I know I can safely have a drink or two while engaged in those activities but I choose not to. At a public venue however thought must be given to the LCD and rules made accordingly. Event organizers will be blamed and quite possibly sued if anything goes wrong at the event so they're obliged to do what it takes to keep the event safe.

[Echo]

Criminy. A certain gun club where I used to compete had a beer cooler in the great room. I was a wet shooter at an early stage in my development, having a beer and a can of sliced peaches for breakfast, another beer @ lunch, and maybe another or two during the day. And I remember a good friend, WELL known, telling me, when I mentioned I had an upset stomach, to go check in the trunk of his car for some peppermint schnaps. "Only thing that will settle your stomach, tighten your groups, and make your breath smell purty, all at the same time". So sayeth Jim...

[snuffy]

It's amazing how vehemently some will defend their choices to drink. Alcohol has destroyed so many lives that it is un-defendable.

I HAD a drinking problem I was a binge drinker, most times I waited until Friday so I didn't have to work with a hangover. That was over 32 years ago. Nary a sip since then. I made a vow to my 3 month old son and God that I would never drink again.

Before I got sober, I was doing a trap league at the local range. At the end of the season, there was a fun shoot, awards for the winners, and plenty of beer. It got late at night, the lights were turned on, some trap shooting took place. The guns should have never left their cases. A hat was stolen off the head of one of the drunkest, it was tossed in the air and shot with a 12 gauge! Somebody with some authority took charge, the guns were put away, everybody went home. I'm sure we were all over the limit for driving, but drive we did! Now somebody say that drinking and shooting can go together!

My present gun club has a bar with a fridge with soda and beer in it. We are a NRA affiliated club, with DCM garands for any member to check out and use. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it a NRA rule that no one may shoot after drinking? That's the policy at my club, you may have a beer after you shoot but not before. If you think you're done, have a beer, then remember you had another gun to shoot, sorry, you ARE done! One guy tried to get around the rules by getting half tanked up before coming out to shoot. It was obvious to everybody, he was denied use of the range. He got very angry, to the point where his pistol carrier was confiscated, he was driven home. Later he was tossed from the club. Appears he did this all the time, but never when other members were present.

[Blackwater]

This is and has always been a bone of contention in many situations, but never moreso than when guns are involved. I was a probation officer for 5 1/2 years, and this was during the time when the state found it could make big money off DUI's. Many of those caught were legitimately just at the .08% level, but not really seriously debilitated because they compensated for the fact. However, many at 0% aren't very attentive or good drivers, and add in a little alcohol, and there goes the whole program! Idjits are idjits whether drunk, high, have a little buzz or are stone cold sober. THAT is the problem moreso than the alcohol, usually. Yet, to have a big club, you're inevitably going to get a few of those, and the only intelligent thing to do is just have the no drinking rule. Some who can handle it and keep it very mild will always get away with it. This is one of those situations where it's NOT quite "right" to treat everyone exactly equally. But doing so will never go over well, so ... we get the small rules, like the one on alcohol.

There's really not "good" way to deal with it, simply because of the variables involved, and only a fool discounts security, so ... again, we get the small rules. Clearly laying out the punishment should involve past behaviors and tendencies, and this might at least give some leeway in dealing with offenders, I'd think?

I've attended turkey shoots with a bunch of good ol' boys who like to drink, and inevitably, one or two will drink WAY too much. Even there, the people putting on the shoot have no problem in telling even a friend that they can't shoot any more or handle the guns when they get obviously beyond doing so safely. But the vast majority who've imbibed or have a bit of a buzz handle their guns very appropriately. I think most people with a significant desire to live just naturally compensate by being overly cautious about loading their gun, and wait until they get in shooting position to do it, and always watch the way the barrel's pointed. I haven't even heard of anyone being hurt at these shoots, though I've heard some stories about having to deal with beligerant drunks who resented being told they were too drunk to shoot. Good ol' boys just don't seem to have a problem telling even a friend when they've had too much. I think they realize that they'll apologize the next day. Most moderns, who are sold on the PC concept of never disagreeing or teeing off anyone can't or won't do that, so .... again, we get the small rules that really are there because we don't exercise good judgment, or don't want to approach someone with a gun who's had too much to drink. This is one reason I like to do my shooting in fields, or on private ranges. It's just so much more open and sensible.

It's against the law to drive with an open container, and some of the best beers I've ever drunk were after fishing, when the boat had been loaded onto the trailer and I was headed home. Drove slowly so as to enjoy the trip, watch the woods for varmints I'd miss going faster, and just sip a beer to more completely enjoy it all, and rehash the day's fishing and catch. I don't do that now, and I resent not being able to. As Beretta said, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." That's good advice, but I still resent it. What I do doesn't endanger ANYBODY, but I've got to abide by the "rules" so others won't endanger ME, so ... that's just what I do.

Life is full of compromises, and this is one that I may not like, but feel a sense of duty and better judgment getting the better of me in it. I still miss that one, ice cold beer on the way home, though. Back roads all the way to the house, but I STILL can't trust my luck to not run across a lawman, and get cited. Like I said, life's full of compromises. This is just one of many we all seem to need to make these days, where everything we do is always under critical eyes.

[dtknowles]

...................It's against the law to drive with an open container, and some of the best beers I've ever drunk were after fishing, when the boat had been loaded onto the trailer and I was headed home. Drove slowly so as to enjoy the trip, watch the woods for varmints I'd miss going faster, and just sip a beer to more completely enjoy it all, and rehash the day's fishing and catch. I don't do that now, and I resent not being able to. As Beretta said, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." That's good advice, but I still resent it. What I do doesn't endanger ANYBODY, but I've got to abide by the "rules" so others won't endanger ME, so ... that's just what I do.

Life is full of compromises, and this is one that I may not like, but feel a sense of duty and better judgment getting the better of me in it. I still miss that one, ice cold beer on the way home, though. Back roads all the way to the house, but I STILL can't trust my luck to not run across a lawman, and get cited. Like I said, life's full of compromises. This is just one of many we all seem to need to make these days, where everything we do is always under critical eyes.

So even you have learned to accept the shackles of creeping socialism. Next time go ahead and have that beer, you have only so much time to live and really what kind of jerk would bust you for it unless you had a six pack before you got into the truck.

Tim

[dragon813gt]

It's amazing how vehemently some will defend their choices to drink. Alcohol has destroyed so many lives that it is un-defendable.

I HAD a drinking problem.

Your problem, not mine. Don't say I can't do it because you had a problem. How many times has personal responsibility been mentioned in this thread? I personally don't drink brown liquor. It's instant *******(self censored) if I do drink it. But I'm not going to tell someone else they can't partake because I can't handle it.

I won't do anything requiring tools if I'm drinking. Have friends that drink while they fix up their homes. To each their own. It's one of the great freedoms in this country. And to many people that have a problem want it stopped because they personally can't handle it.

[popper]

Lots of things we can do without causing a problem but it's a matter of habit. One of the northern counties here a few years ago had some kids drinking, shooting 22 rifle. Anyway, one kid is sitting in the car, another blasts him with 22 through the window and the shooter gets off with probation - affluenza. And the girls (was an overnighter?) gets scared and drives off - not calling anyone. I shoot with 'adults' and drink with 'adults' but not at the same time. Drink and shoot around me and I'm gone. GGPa carried a 38 special in his trouser pocket when rounding up town drunks and vagrants. Dad learned from him & I learned from Dad. I will tell you it is no fun to tell the LEO to go ahead and take your drunk kid in, talked to him for an hour but he wouldn't stop being belligerent. Don't think he's had a drop since then.

[starmac]

It is rare, rare and even extremely rare that I have a beer and never anything any stronger, but I generally keep a sixpack in the fridge and several bottles in the cabinet.
There is a huge difference in a person haveing a drink or beer and being drunk. I doubt I would care to camp or hunt, where a guy couldn't have a drink sitting around the fire telling lies. lol

[MaryB]

Fridays when I got home from school I would pack stuff for the lake including a cooler of beer. When mom and dad got home we loaded up and I road up in the back of the pickup(camper shell). Once we got out of town and onto the back road up to the lake dad would open the slider and I would pass 2 beers forward and grab one for myself. That was their after work drink to unwind more and they never had an issue with us kids having a couple beers under their supervision. We grew in up in a town with German heritage and my grandparents on dads side were 100% German(Grandpa used to swear at us in German...). Beer was what was served with a meal. It wasn't anything forbidden so us kids never grew up sneaking it. If we were going to a beer party we had to spend the night and wait until afternoon and we were sober to drive home.

People can drink responsibly and take personal responsibility for their actions. If you have to many who refuse to take personal responsibility then that is when you need to take action and ban it. I am fed up with the liberal mantra of "I am not responsible for myself so government has to be"


This is and has always been a bone of contention in many situations, but never moreso than when guns are involved. I was a probation officer for 5 1/2 years, and this was during the time when the state found it could make big money off DUI's. Many of those caught were legitimately just at the .08% level, but not really seriously debilitated because they compensated for the fact. However, many at 0% aren't very attentive or good drivers, and add in a little alcohol, and there goes the whole program! Idjits are idjits whether drunk, high, have a little buzz or are stone cold sober. THAT is the problem moreso than the alcohol, usually. Yet, to have a big club, you're inevitably going to get a few of those, and the only intelligent thing to do is just have the no drinking rule. Some who can handle it and keep it very mild will always get away with it. This is one of those situations where it's NOT quite "right" to treat everyone exactly equally. But doing so will never go over well, so ... we get the small rules, like the one on alcohol.

There's really not "good" way to deal with it, simply because of the variables involved, and only a fool discounts security, so ... again, we get the small rules. Clearly laying out the punishment should involve past behaviors and tendencies, and this might at least give some leeway in dealing with offenders, I'd think?

I've attended turkey shoots with a bunch of good ol' boys who like to drink, and inevitably, one or two will drink WAY too much. Even there, the people putting on the shoot have no problem in telling even a friend that they can't shoot any more or handle the guns when they get obviously beyond doing so safely. But the vast majority who've imbibed or have a bit of a buzz handle their guns very appropriately. I think most people with a significant desire to live just naturally compensate by being overly cautious about loading their gun, and wait until they get in shooting position to do it, and always watch the way the barrel's pointed. I haven't even heard of anyone being hurt at these shoots, though I've heard some stories about having to deal with beligerant drunks who resented being told they were too drunk to shoot. Good ol' boys just don't seem to have a problem telling even a friend when they've had too much. I think they realize that they'll apologize the next day. Most moderns, who are sold on the PC concept of never disagreeing or teeing off anyone can't or won't do that, so .... again, we get the small rules that really are there because we don't exercise good judgment, or don't want to approach someone with a gun who's had too much to drink. This is one reason I like to do my shooting in fields, or on private ranges. It's just so much more open and sensible.

It's against the law to drive with an open container, and some of the best beers I've ever drunk were after fishing, when the boat had been loaded onto the trailer and I was headed home. Drove slowly so as to enjoy the trip, watch the woods for varmints I'd miss going faster, and just sip a beer to more completely enjoy it all, and rehash the day's fishing and catch. I don't do that now, and I resent not being able to. As Beretta said, "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." That's good advice, but I still resent it. What I do doesn't endanger ANYBODY, but I've got to abide by the "rules" so others won't endanger ME, so ... that's just what I do.

Life is full of compromises, and this is one that I may not like, but feel a sense of duty and better judgment getting the better of me in it. I still miss that one, ice cold beer on the way home, though. Back roads all the way to the house, but I STILL can't trust my luck to not run across a lawman, and get cited. Like I said, life's full of compromises. This is just one of many we all seem to need to make these days, where everything we do is always under critical eyes.