New wheel weights vs. old lyman #2.

[Ball Caster]

I hope this is the right forum for this question.
I read the section on identifying wheel weights but I still have a few questions.
Years ago when I cast WWs they seemed to be a lot softer. I believe they were mostly lead with a bit if Tin or Antimony. Recently a fellow gave me a bunch of WWs and they seem to be much much harder.
So my first questions are.
· Are todays WWs harder than those of 25 years ago?
· How do they compare with the old Lyman #2 alloy?
· Are they hard enough to use with a gas check at about 1800 ft/sec.
Finally, I have a small amount of Lyman #2 alloy left,
1, How can I compare it to the WW ingots I just made?
2, If I can locate a tester, is there a certain Durometer I need?

I have cast lots and lots of pure lead muzzle loading balls but it has been ages since I cast 140 grain bullet for my 6.5 X 55 Swede.

[RogerDat]

Lead Alloy will age harden if it is the right combination of ingredients. Old WW's were harder than new ones IF THE NEW ONES ARE LEAD. Current WW's can be steel or zinc. Both of these are very hard. Look for a Zn or Fe in raised letters on the WW. Or test for steel with a magnet.

You should be able to make a little nip in a lead WW with a pair of diagonal cutting pliers. Zinc won't nip much at all and then only with extreme force.

Use These
155203

To put a nip such as these have along the left end on the edge facing front. Except the front one which has the nip facing the back.
155204

Won't nip then not lead. Some states don't allow use of Lead WW's so auto makers don't use them on new cars and the tire stores don't put them on. Other states they are still being used by tires stores when a tire is replaced.

[RogerDat]

Almost forgot.
WW's would not be as hard as Lyman #2 and WW's don't have the tin content that would help with mold fill out. WW's run between 9 and 12 BHN while Lyman #2 should be around 15 BHN. Lead Alloy Calculator can be downloaded from the sticky thread and is most useful. Lyman #2 would be 5% tin and 5% antimony, WW's would be 1/2 % tin and 3% antimony (if that). Very different to work with.

Zinc WW's melt above 750* F so if you melt a batch of WW's and keep the temp down around 700* then the zinc and steel will float to the top of the molten lead without the zinc melting. Zinc is a very undesirable metal to get into your lead for casting. Makes the lead act like oatmeal or cottage cheese at fairly low percentages of zinc.

[bangerjim]

Just the opposite. Old weights (which I have about 400# of) are harder with more Sb in them.

New weights are a bit "cheaper" and softer. And today a large % are Zn and Fe! Not worth it to me anymore.

I stick with mixing my alloys from the raw metals % I want.

Follow the above methods for Pb/Zn/Fe testing.

You can do "poor man's hardness testing" with the chart off this forum (do a search) and a set of GOOD artist's pencils. It is a SWAG, but will get you in the ballpark. I use only a Cabine hardness tester.

And download the FREE alloy calculator spreadsheet on this forum. Again....a search with the little white box above. Google is your leeeeetle friend!

banger

I too forgot your question about #2..........Roger covered the differences.

And you should always have some Sn at the ready! 2% is the magic number I and most use to get good mold fills. Some get it with straight COWW's, but I always add Sn and keep the pour temp a bit lower.

[typz2slo]

Had some old cowws from the early 80s that were 2.37% sb and .18% sn. New cowws were 2.44% sb and .49% sn

[bangerjim]

There is a thread on here somewhere that a kind soul built that shows tons of different WW's and the various contents. There seems to be no real consistency to them. Just treat them as 11-12! That is what I do. And to not sweat the small stuff. Hardness is not that critical to most of us today. Fit is King today. We all shoot softer lead than the old #2 standard. Add PC and you are good to go with 10Bhn for subsonics.

banger

[Larry Gibson]

+1 on banger's comments, he's spot on.

Larry Gibson

[MT Chambers]

These days if you get a pail of wheelweights as much as half must be pitched because they are steel,iron, or worse yet zinc.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I shoot straight ACWWs (Lee-309-170) at around 1800 FPS with no problems in my 30-06. Just get them hot enough to start to frost and you will get decent fillout on the vast majority of your boolits.

[Ball Caster]

The melted about 10 lbs of the WW I was given and cast lead balls for my muzzle loader. Naturally they were harder than the pure lead ball I normally cast but I was using them in a smoothbore so the hardness does not ready matter.

My casting temp was about 900 degrees. I still have about 15 lbs of WW left, which I will sort before I melt.

I am curious what zinc does that makes it so bad for bullets?

Also for us less than savy folks what are CO wheel weights and AC wheel weights?

[ubetcha]

ACWW= air cooled ww meaning air cooled when cast boolit is dropped from mold.
COWW= clip on ww. this means how they are attached to the rim
SOWW= stick on ww. meaning again how they attach to rim. most are close to soft lead
WDWW or WCWW means water dropped or water cooled when dropped into a bucket of water from mold
HTWW meaning heat treated. boolits are put in an oven or toaster oven and heated to approx 450 degrees or just short of melting for about an hour and then dropped into cold water. water cooled and heat treated will hard the lead if the right % of antimony is present