Remington roller build

[49Reo]

Howdy all, I've been a member here for a year or so, just kind of hanging in the shadows and enjoying the site. As a big fan of the .45-70 round, and rifles chambered in such, I decided it is time to start a build. I have a Green Mountain tapered octagon barrel, 1.12 on the big end, and just picked up an early rolling block; a Remington built 1867/89 in 8x58R action(and barrel too, for that matter)is in excellent condition. The issue is, when I measured the new barrel, it is slightly(about.102) bigger than the face of the action below the radius of the fronted fe of the action. I'm thinking of just radiusing the corners of the barrel down to match the action contour. Someone mentioned a "wedding band" cut on the barrel where it meets the action. Has anyone on here done, or seen, this done, am trying to visualize how it would look, either way, the wedding band cut of turning the corners to matched the action face. Any pics/ideas on this would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance;
Reo

[Nobade]

The first closeup picture (with the gold engraving) shows a Sharps "Hartford collar" - one possible way of doing that. Of course you could always turn down the barrel to whatever diameter you wanted.

http://www.shilohrifle.com/custom_features.php

-Nobade

[country gent]

Alot leave a round spot on the barrel where the shank comes in and then the octagon blends into this the round is 1/2"-3/4" long. Your issue will be the corners are already bigger than the blend shoulder which will leave steps in the corners at the end. The 3/4" round section with a "wedding" band may be the best option. short of recutting the octagons taper to blend it. when done you should have a good shooter. How long is the barrel? Your going to lose 1 1/2" or there abouts to shank and if blank is long another 1" may be gained from back of barrel measure forward some accros the corners and see if that gains what you need.

[49Reo]

The Sharps pic is kind of what I was thinking. The other option I have seen is machining the face of the action back past the radius on the shoulder which is about .125. The octagon barrel would butt up nicely then. The barrel length is 34" octagon plus about an inch and a quarter round for turning to size and threading.
It should be a good shooter,it is a Green Mountain BPCR barrel, 1:18 twist. I have a real nice piece of curly spalted maple a buddy in Ohio sent me; hoping to use it for the wood...Should look nice alongside the rest of my one-lunger .45-70's.... :-)

[49Reo]

Nice pics of the Sharps, btw, Nobade. They about make me weak in the knees just looking at them....

[Nobade]

You're welcome. Oh, remember that Remington rolling block sporting rifles had flats machined into the receiver to match the octagon barrels.

-Nobade

[49Reo]

I was thinking about that, but due to the age of this roller was thinking of leaving the military profile, rather the cutting the flats on the action. The more meat there the better....get it too thin, baad ju-ju....plus, with the Hartford collar profile, I think the round sided action will look pretty good. But, I'm still quite a ways from that step just yet, I'll likely change my mind 20 times before it's done...lol

[John Taylor]

The old BP actions usually don't have enough metal to make octagon on top. The later #5 action has plenty but also has bigger thread diameter.

[49Reo]

John, what are your thoughts on machining the face of the receiver back to eliminate the radiused corner on the top of the receiver? It's about .125 that would be taken off. My only reason would be for a cleaner look to the transition from receiver to barrel. It's a pretty rough radius; looks like it has been filed. Another question for all you guys with waay more experience with these rollers than I have: I have read where these actions were re-case hardened when they were upgraded in their past life. Is it advisable to get it color-case hardened again? It has no color left on the action, and would like to get it done if it is safe to do so.

Thanks in advance;
Reo

[Wayne Smith]

The Sharps pic is kind of what I was thinking. The other option I have seen is machining the face of the action back past the radius on the shoulder which is about .125. The octagon barrel would butt up nicely then. The barrel length is 34" octagon plus about an inch and a quarter round for turning to size and threading.
It should be a good shooter,it is a Green Mountain BPCR barrel, 1:18 twist. I have a real nice piece of curly spalted maple a buddy in Ohio sent me; hoping to use it for the wood...Should look nice alongside the rest of my one-lunger .45-70's.... :-)

Be careful with the spalted maple. Each line of spaltaing is mold growing in the wood and is weaker than the wood. I'd be concerned that you would get some separation from the recoil.

[4060MAY]

this is how I did it
Rolling Block Action was originally a .43 Spanish with rotary extractor..No.1 made by Remington
Barrel is GM straight octagon 1.120 AF, 1-18 twist ...Done in the early 90's and I don't remember if we cut the front of the action flat...
pic showing chamber 45-70, gives an idea of how much metal there is around the chamber

yes it has a SST

[4060MAY]

footnote
after looking at the action again
the front was cut flat...on the military actions there was a lip on the front of the action and it is not there now...IIRC the step on the receiver to the buttstock was left alone...just to make it harder to fit
on my Swede/Danish made in 1871 the front was flat and the part where the buttstock attaches was flat also

any dimensions I can help with ...just ask..I also have an 1897 No.5 large thread sliding extractor..I can maesure

[John Taylor]

John, what are your thoughts on machining the face of the receiver back to eliminate the radiused corner on the top of the receiver? It's about .125 that would be taken off. My only reason would be for a cleaner look to the transition from receiver to barrel. It's a pretty rough radius; looks like it has been filed. Another question for all you guys with waay more experience with these rollers than I have: I have read where these actions were re-case hardened when they were upgraded in their past life. Is it advisable to get it color-case hardened again? It has no color left on the action, and would like to get it done if it is safe to do so.
Thanks in advance;
Reo

I have machined more than a few on the face, usually to clean up pitting. I don't see a problem with taking off 1/8", there is still enough thread to hold a barrel in.

[John Taylor]

footnote
after looking at the action again
the front was cut flat...on the military actions there was a lip on the front of the action and it is not there now...IIRC the step on the receiver to the buttstock was left alone...just to make it harder to fit
on my Swede/Danish made in 1871 the front was flat and the part where the buttstock attaches was flat also

any dimensions I can help with ...just ask..I also have an 1897 No.5 large thread sliding extractor..I can maesure

Most of the old BP actions are flat on the face, I don't know as I have seen one that was not flat. The #5 has the ears on the side and the rear is cut so the wood does not spread out.

[4060MAY]

internet stuff is hard to convey
my meaning was the ears were removed and the face of the action was trued up
The action I made into the 45-70, is definitely Not a no.5....it was originally a bottleneck ...we determined it was a .43 Spanish or there about. and the rotary extractor does not have the extra spring for a rimless cartridge
I have a 1897, No.5 with a sliding extractor for rimless, this action was originally a 7mm Spanish....the threaded section is much larger than the No.1, I have never worked on a no.5 with a rotary extractor for rimless, altho the lower tang was missing from the 1897 action and I usedone from a no.5 and it had the spring and set-up for rimless cases

[49Reo]

Wow, lots of good intel, guys, much appreciated. The front edge of the action. Is no sharp cornered, it is radiused, about 1". I had a re chambered .50-70, real nice action, good barrel, I let it go. It had the sliding extractor, whereas this one has a rotating extractor. The barrel on this is incredible shape; I almost....almost hate to take it off, but I do have this .45-70 barrel blank, and I do like my big bores....this will make #5 in .45-70. My wife asks,"how many do you need?" To which I replied, " NEED has nothing to do with it...." :-)

Another question: I am looking(unsuccessfully so far) for a profile gauge for square and acme thread, as I have never cut this type of thread before.

How ow many it,e's can these actions be safely case hardened? It is "in the white" right now, and would like to have it color case hardened, but I understand that it has already been case hardened 2x in its life so far, if I read correctly while doing some online research.

The he spalted maple. I have read that there can be some issues with using this wood. Has anyone here ever "stabilized" spalted wood before? I read that it can be stabilized to strengthened, but can't find much info on that procedure. Maybe I'll have to use a piece of French walnut that I have had since the earth was flat...

[John Taylor]

Check with Mike hunter, Hunter Restorations, about color case

[Wayne Smith]

Stabilization of wood is the process of infusing the wood with resin in a vacuum chamber. I'm not sure it would work with something as thick as a stock. The paint on or soak resins only penetrate about an eighth of an inch in soft maple, I just turned a bowl using it out of spalted soft maple.

[49Reo]

I'll have to wait until I cut the block down to rough size and see how soft it actually is; pretty good chance it won't work for a stock. might have to use the last of my walnut....time to find some more...

[Wayne Smith]

I would not use anything but rock (sugar) maple for a maple stock.

[Boz330]

Howdy all, I've been a member here for a year or so, just kind of hanging in the shadows and enjoying the site. As a big fan of the .45-70 round, and rifles chambered in such, I decided it is time to start a build. I have a Green Mountain tapered octagon barrel, 1.12 on the big end, and just picked up an early rolling block; a Remington built 1867/89 in 8x58R action(and barrel too, for that matter)is in excellent condition. The issue is, when I measured the new barrel, it is slightly(about.102) bigger than the face of the action below the radius of the fronted fe of the action. I'm thinking of just radiusing the corners of the barrel down to match the action contour. Someone mentioned a "wedding band" cut on the barrel where it meets the action. Has anyone on here done, or seen, this done, am trying to visualize how it would look, either way, the wedding band cut of turning the corners to matched the action face. Any pics/ideas on this would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance;
Reo

Here is one that I did several years ago in 40-65. It actually shot pretty good in the 8MM but I had the barrel and wanted the larger caliber for hunting. I don't remember the shank size but it matched up nearly perfect. Fun rifle to shoot and not too bad to carry.

Bob

[marlinman93]

Right after Ballards, I'm a huge Rolling Block fan! Love them, and have built a few, plus own about a dozen originals presently. Remington made barrels larger than their actions, and when fitting them to the action they simply beveled the back edge down on the octagon corners.
Similar to this Carlos Gove Remington:
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l537/jojodo1/CGoveRollingBlock022.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/jojodo1/media/CGoveRollingBlock022.jpg.html)

This is my .44-77SBN heavy barrel. Just slightly larger, so slight bevel:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/roller.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/roller.jpg.html)

I've used Al Springer in Moore, Mt. to do my case coloring, and his work and prices beat everyone else I've tried. Probably the nicest colors around, and definitely the most reasonable if you polish the action yourself first!
This one I built from a #1 Sporting action, and barreled with a .40-65 Win. GM full round barrel.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/rlr3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/rlr3.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/bs1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/bs1.jpg.html)

Color casehardening by Al Springer
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/cch1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/cch1.jpg.html)

[49Reo]

Here is one that I did several years ago in 40-65. It actually shot pretty good in the 8MM but I had the barrel and wanted the larger caliber for hunting. I don't remember the shank size but it matched up nearly perfect. Fun rifle to shoot and not too bad to carry.

Bob
Wow, nice. Nice wood on it too, nice grain.

[49Reo]

Right after Ballards, I'm a huge Rolling Block fan! Love them, and have built a few, plus own about a dozen originals presently. Remington made barrels larger than their actions, and when fitting them to the action they simply beveled the back edge down on the octagon corners.
Similar to this Carlos Gove Remington:
http://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l537/jojodo1/CGoveRollingBlock022.jpg (http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/jojodo1/media/CGoveRollingBlock022.jpg.html)

This is my .44-77SBN heavy barrel. Just slightly larger, so slight bevel:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/roller.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/roller.jpg.html)

I've used Al Springer in Moore, Mt. to do my case coloring, and his work and prices beat everyone else I've tried. Probably the nicest colors around, and definitely the most reasonable if you polish the action yourself first!
This one I built from a #1 Sporting action, and barreled with a .40-65 Win. GM full round barrel.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/rp3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/rp3.jpg.html)Nice rifle, looks like a brute for weight!

[marlinman93]

Nice rifle, looks like a brute for weight!

I absolutely love big heavy singleshot rifles! I know they make no sense for hunting, but love them. The heavier the barrel, the better! Have a friend who owns an original Hepburn with half octagon barrel in .40-70 that is a good 1/8" larger than the receiver on each side! I have lusted over it for years, but he's never going to let it go!

[49Reo]

I would love to have a Hepburn in my toy box. But, never had the opportunity to buy but one, and he wasn't in a 'dealing' mood. So, one Highwall, 1 roller,(and one still needing to be re-barreled) one H&R BC, re-stocked to suit my long LOP, one Marlin 1895 CB, all in.45-70. This roller I want to re-barrel myself; I'm no machinist, but would still like to give it a try. All I can do is end up with a slightly shorter barrel.....

[marlinman93]

I would love to have a Hepburn in my toy box. But, never had the opportunity to buy but one, and he wasn't in a 'dealing' mood. So, one Highwall, 1 roller,(and one still needing to be re-barreled) one H&R BC, re-stocked to suit my long LOP, one Marlin 1895 CB, all in.45-70. This roller I want to re-barrel myself; I'm no machinist, but would still like to give it a try. All I can do is end up with a slightly shorter barrel.....

I'm no machinist either, and my Chinese mill/lathe combo is not accurate enough for any critical work. I had John Taylor fit the GM barrel to my action, and then I did all the metal prep and wood fitting. Sent the barrel and action to Al Springer to do the color casehardening, and rust bluing.
In the end, I'm probably in my Roller a bit over $1,000 including original purchase price for the #1 Sporter action.

[49Reo]

Back at last, been hiding in the shop rebuilding the engine in my Jeep. Dropped my barrelled action and Green Mountain barrel off a Corlane Sports, Dawson Creek, B.C. today to get the barrel chambered, threaded, and installed, by then I'll hopefully be finished the Jeep(project from He!!) then start finishing the metal and build some stocks...
Managed to pick up a Pedersoli Creedmoor today as well, comes with the long brass scope installed on it but didn't get sights with it..gonna have to scrounge a set for it a sic don't think I will use the scope. I'll get pics up hopefully sooner than later, and will update periodically on the Roller build.

Reo

[Col4570]

The 8x58 Barrel will make a fine 32.40 barrel liner.I did it with a Greener Martini Action and it is on Target with a 165 grain gas Checked Bullet measuring .324 and 40 Grains of 3f BP".Waste not want not.

[49Reo]

Now that is an interesting bit of info; I'll be filing that away for future project material...

Reo

[marlinman93]

Back at last, been hiding in the shop rebuilding the engine in my Jeep. Dropped my barrelled action and Green Mountain barrel off a Corlane Sports, Dawson Creek, B.C. today to get the barrel chambered, threaded, and installed, by then I'll hopefully be finished the Jeep(project from He!!) then start finishing the metal and build some stocks...
Managed to pick up a Pedersoli Creedmoor today as well, comes with the long brass scope installed on it but didn't get sights with it..gonna have to scrounge a set for it a sic don't think I will use the scope. I'll get pics up hopefully sooner than later, and will update periodically on the Roller build.

Reo

Sounds like a good choice! I would love to do some tasks, but since I do rebarreling rarely, I leave it to the experts. The Pedersoli sounds like a great purchase too! If the long brass scope has those funky original mounts, you'll want to locate some decent mounts to replace them! I have two of those old Tasco/Navy Arms Co. long brass scopes, and adapted Winchester rings to one, and Leatherwood Malcolm rings to the other. Adjustments are much nicer, and the scope sits in line with the barrel, not off to one side. Works way better than the funky brass mounts.
I also patina'd both of my scopes to make them look aged, and more like old Malcolm scopes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/DSCF4750.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/DSCF4750.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy/hepscp1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/marlinguy/media/hepscp1.jpg.html)

[49Reo]

Nice! What is that scope mounted on? My roller is in at Corlane Sports in Dawson Creek B.C. getting the barrel put on, and dovetail for front sight. Hope to have it back in a couple o weeks... :-)

Reo

[McLintock]

Don't forget to sporterize the action, I sent mine to John King, up in Montana, and he fitted the 38-55 barrel and sporterized the action for me; makes it look pretty nice.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL1620/1303399/2593806/406241468.jpg

McLintock