S+w 586 357/38

[49FMarlin]

Can this handgun be loaded with BP ?
I load for a 45-70 and understand the "no airspace"

and I'm looking for a handgun that will shoot both powders as does my 45-70 rifle

[Petrol & Powder]

Well, yes but why?
The 38 Special started out as a black powder cartridge and it is certainly possible to load a 38 Special casing with a black powder charge but you'll get fairly low velocities. The resulting cartridge will be safe, the BP load produces far less pressure than the smokeless loads.

[reed1911]

Yes, but... My 586(s) and 686(s) all have tight cylinder to barrel gaps, you may find you do not get many shots before having to clean or you will get lock up.

[Petrol & Powder]

reed1911 is correct. I've shot black powder 38 Special loads in modern guns just to say i did.

Got that out of my system and see no need to go back.

[Nobade]

Yes you can and it works fine. I use BP in most of my S&W revolvers. And before you poo-poo the ballistics I suggest you try chronographing a full 38 spl black powder load. 21.5gr. Old "E" FFFg under a 158gr. bullet gives right at 900 fps out of my 6 inch model 14. Normal 38 spl ballistics. If you use good powder and proper bullets and lube, they will keep on running for a long time and if it gets sticky a shot of Windex on the front of the cylinder keeps things spinning.

Not that this will do anything that smokeless loads won't do, but it is entertaining and quite fun to shoot the defensive revolver matches with ammo loaded this way.

-Nobade

[StrawHat]

Sure, it can be done. I loaded some 148 grain WCs over a case of black powder to use at Stage 1 of a PPC match. Made sure I was upwind of the others. After they were sure I had not blown up anything, there were lot's of laughs. And the scores were pretty much the same.

If you are really interested in using black powder in a revolver, you might consider a larger cartridge. 44 WCF and 45 long Colt were both originally loaded with black powder.

Kevin

[45/70fan]

I learned something today. I thought the 38 Spl was introduced as a smokeless round.

"Back in 1902 when the 38 Smith & Wesson Special cartridge was introduced, no one could have predicted what the future held for it. Almost certainly, no one would have guessed that after more than 110 years the 38 Special would be the centerfire handgun cartridge with the highest number of factory loadings available, but that’s how it panned out. There was a certain round that came along in the 1930s and gave it a great boost (we’ll get to that later), but the 38 Special stands on its own in many ways. One reason for this lack of life expectancy would likely have been the 38 Special’s humble beginnings. Although conceived as a more powerful alternative to the rather pathetic 38 Long Colt round, the 38 Special began life with only marginally-increased oomph. This was 1902, after all, and the use of smokeless powder was still in its infancy; early 38 Special ammo was in fact loaded with black powder (about 21 grains of it). The original bullet was a 158-grain round nose unjacketed variety, and only attained perhaps 800 fps in velocity. The early 1900s was a very active period in firearm and cartridge development, and experimentation led to improvements. A change from black powder to smokeless produced a marginal improvement in velocity (as well as producing much less corrosive residue when fired), and in 1909 a Colt-inspired version, then called the 38 Colt Special, introduced a flat-nosed bullet that greatly increased the stopping power even at such modest velocity...." - See more at: http://www.alloutdoor.com/2013/08/28/profile-cartridge-history-development-38-special/#sthash.OttKuGGx.dpuf

[Good Cheer]

All right, that's enough. I'm gonna load some .41 mags with black.
That's what I shoot any way in the 1858 Remington with the same molds.

[bigted]

YES U CAN !!!

here is my procedure with my 357 mag and 45 Colt loadings. I fill the case with enough powder {either KIK or better yet Old E powder in the 3Fg size} to provide around .200 inch of compression and compress with the boolit. in the 45 I use a Accurate molds boolit that drops around 265 grain boolits and in the 357 I use a Lee mold of 159 grain boolits.

I prime with regular primers in both as I find no advantage to the mag primers. then a moderate crimp and all is great.

now what I do to continue shooting is to use an old cap n ball revolver trick ... which is to fill the mouth of the cylinder with Crisco "butter" grease and even tho a bit messy I am able to shoot till I need a break before the cylinder is gummed up to cause hindrance.

then as above ... I use windex [with vinegar] to spray off the front of the cylinder when I continue shooting.

I also find that the Old E powder offered from GOEX requires no swabbing of the barrel to continue with accurate shooting.

you will find tho that the revolver will heat up very quickly shooting these BP loads and without gloves on you will find burns beginning to happen when you touch the hot barrel with unprotected skin.

very fun and accurate to boot.

[bigted]

I will just add that the cleanup is super easy and should not be a reason to not load and shoot with good quality black powder loads.

I use a ballistol water mix of 10 to one water/ballistol to clean both inside and out of my single action Colts as well as my S&W and Ruger sp-100 revolvers.

I spray em down and allow to set for around 5 min to soak into and neutralize the fouling before the cleaning proper begins.

I then clean with patch's soaked and drippin with the water/ballistol mix till all residue is wiped clean inside the bore and cylinders and I also use a good stiff tooth brush to scrub the forcing cone area and the ejector rods and shafts as well as the entire outside of the revolvers.

after this I re-spray em with the water/ballistol mix and wipe em down inside n out for a nice clean revolver ... now I spray em inside n out with "Rem spray" and spray a copious amount inside the action ... allow this to drip for a few minutes and wipe down for the rest till I wanna shoot em again.

all in all it takes around 4 or 5 minutes to clean revolvers complete from the "hazardous" use of the dreaded Black Powder and its resultant fouling.

TSALB A EVAH

[Lead pot]

I use a popsicle stick and just put a small dap of Vaseline ahead of the bullets like you would for a cap and ball. It don't take much to keep the wheel turning. My 28 Smith has a very close tolerance between the cylinder and barrel.
:) black powder works better in the 1911 :)

[Nobade]

:) black powder works better in the 1911 :)

That's for sure! BP in the 1911 is a hoot. That really entertains 'em at the IDPA matches. Plus the only thing to clean is the barrel.

-Nobade

[Lead pot]

Just don't use it for a bulls eye match when there is no wind blowing or shot guns loaded with black at a trap shoot.
They just don't have a sense of hummer LOL

[jonp]

"I use a ballistol water mix of 10 to one water/ballistol to clean both inside and out of my single action Colts as well as my S&W and Ruger sp-100 revolvers"

I guess I missed the boat on this use of Ballistol. I'll try it today when I test my 43 Spanish out or maybe load up a few BP 45LC and try it.

[Nobade]

I have had problems doing that myself. That mix cleans great, but I have had the water cause corrosion in nooks and crannies before it evaporated and left the oil behind. Any more I clean the exposed parts with the mix, and the bore, but spray the straight oil into the works to keep any fouling wet and non corrosive.

-Nobade