Flat Shooting Custom Rifle

[rodwha]

I can't get out of my head having a traditional styled (sidelock) rifle that can be used for medium game across fields and such (200+ yds). What I have in mind is to have a ~4" point blank system that can get me out to 200 yds or more using a Malcolm style scope.

Looking at my options with a .50 cal barrel for my Lymans shows I'd need an aerodynamic Hornday bullet in a sabot to get to 200 yds but giving a bit on that 4". Using my Lee REAL would work out to about 175 yds and giving a bit on the 4" also.

My thoughts are on a modern barrel blank and having it converted to work as a sidelock and using paper patched cast bullets. Something between a .308 to a .375.

Using a modern barrel ought to allow for a good BP powder charge and I'd assume achieving along the lines of 8 X 57 mm Mauser performance would be doable.

Anyone ever very read of this?

[wgr]

Buckshot has two 375 barrels for sale. i just bought the 45 cal from him.

[swathdiver]

You still haven't bought "The Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle" by Ned Roberts yet?

I bet you could do it with a fast twist barrel shooting an old school 2 piece paper-patched conical anywhere from .38 to .45 caliber. Such a rifle would easily offer double the accuracy you're striving for.

But ya gotta break out yer wallet for that book to get started man!

[pietro]

http://whitemuzzleloading.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/SptgRifle52FullRight.jpg


http://whitemuzzleloading.com/sporting-rifle/



.

[Nobade]

After playing with this kind of thing for a while, I would suggest nothing less than 40 caliber. In fact, a modern .416 barrel is .408" X .416" and normal 40 caliber BPCR bullets can be shot naked with just a little sizing, or sized more and paper patched.

I do have a 35 caliber inline that, using Blackhorn 209, can almost equal 35 Remington ballistics. But that is using a primed cartridge case for ignition. I don't think a nipple would hold up to that kind of pressure. I also have a 375 that does use caps, and 5 or 6 shots is enough to destroy the nipple when loaded like that. Of course a platinum lined nipple will be a big help.

There is no way you are going to come any where close to 8X57 ballistics with a muzzleloader, and a 4 inch variance out to 200 yards isn't likely to happen. But that doesn't mean you can't build a really effective bullet firing sidelock. Just make sure it is breeched up perfectly, has a platinum nipple, and has a plenty stout barrel and you'll be in business!

-Nobade

[725]

I have a Gonic with a rebarreled .450 bore. Paper patching a .439 cast boolit at 300 grs. and so far it's a real treat for accuracy. Will be moving it out from the 100 yard zero once hunting season is over. Haven't done long distance with it yet but so far it looks promising. Have to see what springtime will tell me. (Took a nice doe so far this year with it.)

[rfd]

pedersoli gibbs long range percussion caplock muzzleloader, .40 or .45 caliber, good to 1000 yards and has placed or won more than a few matches.

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_1/rifles-gibbs.html

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/uploads/prodotti/mid/6S.225.jpg

[Hickok]

While it cannot match the 4" mpbr you quote, the the Whitworth 45 caliber long range sniper rifle of Cival war fame comes to mind, and duplicating the ballistics to some extent with a conventional type rifling is the 45 caliber Volunteer rifle and the Gibbs rifle as posted by RFD.


I have always thought the later U.S. Government 45/70 ballistics were pretty close to the Whitworth muzzle loader but in cartridge form. Both were/and are known to carry up well at longer ranges with the proper boolit.

[johnson1942]

rebarrel any side lock you want includeing a under hammer to a 40 cal 1/16 twist or 45 to 1/18 or 1/20 twist and their you are. paperpatching is very very easy for these guns and can shoot to 1000 yards with the right sights. a good way to go would have john taylor put a barrel liner in a side lock you already have or a nice used thompson and it wouldnt cost a arm and a leg. i have a douglas 45 cal 1/18 twist barrel 36 inches long put on a renagade stock and it drives tacks at any range with a 400 grain through 625 grain bullet. i generly use a 500 grain bullet. you can use a 45 cal on deer as smaller cals. are not allowed. have fun

[Naphtali]

The problem you are addressing has more to do with the trajectory of black powder bullets-velocities. One thousand yard target matches are held regularly for black powder single shot cartridge rifles. They may still be held for muzzleloading slug guns. Not only are such black powder cartridge and muzzleloading slug guns satisfactory at that range, scores can be remarkable. . . . BUT, shooters have a spotter who directs the shooter regarding wind and necessary elevation. And shooters are shooting at known-range targets. If you intend to use the rifle for hunting, unless you mark your ranges to target/animal in advance and practice shooting from "resting place" to target until you have sighted your rifle and determine the regularity of wind, hitting you target/animal lethally with the near certainty that is necessary with a muzzleloader's speed of reload, you might be better served to work within a 125-yard shooting window. If you intend to target shoot only, enjoy.

Hope this helps.

[rfd]

The problem you are addressing has more to do with the trajectory of black powder bullets-velocities. One thousand yard target matches are held regularly for black powder single shot cartridge rifles. They may still be held for muzzleloading slug guns. Not only are such black powder cartridge and muzzleloading slug guns satisfactory at that range, scores can be remarkable. . . . BUT, shooters have a spotter who directs the shooter regarding wind and necessary elevation. And shooters are shooting at known-range targets. If you intend to use the rifle for hunting, unless you mark your ranges to target/animal in advance and practice shooting from "resting place" to target until you have sighted your rifle and determine the regularity of wind, hitting you target/animal lethally with the near certainty that is necessary with a muzzleloader's speed of reload, you might be better served to work within a 125-yard shooting window. If you intend to target shoot only, enjoy.

Hope this helps.

an absolutely spot-on excellent consideration, and typically why black powder muzzleloaders are not the best choice for such random variations in long range distances much past 200 yards or so, particularly for hunting.

[Good Cheer]

Trans-corn field shooting with a specialized side lock is just the cats meow.

[rodwha]

The problem you are addressing has more to do with the trajectory of black powder bullets-velocities. One thousand yard target matches are held regularly for black powder single shot cartridge rifles. They may still be held for muzzleloading slug guns. Not only are such black powder cartridge and muzzleloading slug guns satisfactory at that range, scores can be remarkable. . . . BUT, shooters have a spotter who directs the shooter regarding wind and necessary elevation. And shooters are shooting at known-range targets. If you intend to use the rifle for hunting, unless you mark your ranges to target/animal in advance and practice shooting from "resting place" to target until you have sighted your rifle and determine the regularity of wind, hitting you target/animal lethally with the near certainty that is necessary with a muzzleloader's speed of reload, you might be better served to work within a 125-yard shooting window. If you intend to target shoot only, enjoy.

Hope this helps.

Yea, that's why I was hoping for a more flat shooting projectile.

[rodwha]

You still haven't bought "The Muzzleloading Cap Lock Rifle" by Ned Roberts yet?

I bet you could do it with a fast twist barrel shooting an old school 2 piece paper-patched conical anywhere from .38 to .45 caliber. Such a rifle would easily offer double the accuracy you're striving for.

But ya gotta break out yer wallet for that book to get started man!

No. It's on my list along with Six-Guns.

[Nobade]

an absolutely spot-on excellent consideration, and typically why black powder muzzleloaders are not the best choice for such random variations in long range distances much past 200 yards or so, particularly for hunting.

Recently I have been seeing a trend with our customers, since the Remington 700 UML came out. They are setting them up like tactical rifles with tapered scope bases, big scopes with mil/mil target turrets and reticles, and using them like you would in a tactical match. Laser rangefinder, weather station, and PDA or tablet computer running ballistic software. These guys are having no trouble making first round hits on hanging steel out to 600 yards or so. The thing that gets me is they are all using pistol bullets in sabots, with the lousy BC and sectional density that comes with them. Just because you can reliably hit game at that distance doesn't mean you can cleanly kill it. I still haven't gotten anybody to combine that way of shooting with full diameter paper patched slugs. I think once they discover what those can do, long range muzzleloader shooting and hunting will be changed considerably. Then it just comes down to reading the wind, just like shooting far with anything else.

-Nobade

[rfd]

Recently I have been seeing a trend with our customers, since the Remington 700 UML came out. They are setting them up like tactical rifles with tapered scope bases, big scopes with mil/mil target turrets and reticles, and using them like you would in a tactical match. Laser rangefinder, weather station, and PDA or tablet computer running ballistic software. These guys are having no trouble making first round hits on hanging steel out to 600 yards or so. The thing that gets me is they are all using pistol bullets in sabots, with the lousy BC and sectional density that comes with them. Just because you can reliably hit game at that distance doesn't mean you can cleanly kill it. I still haven't gotten anybody to combine that way of shooting with full diameter paper patched slugs. I think once they discover what those can do, long range muzzleloader shooting and hunting will be changed considerably. Then it just comes down to reading the wind, just like shooting far with anything else.

-Nobade

i hear ya, andy. i just keep thinking of ml's in terms of traditional sidelocks and not zip guns. :)

[StrawHat]

Not exactly what you are considering, but, a rifle built with the Forsythe style of rifling would get you a large bore rifle capable of reaching out to a couple of hundred yards for hunting and do it with a round ball.

Kevin

[drago9900]

I was just going to suggest Forsythe, Rice barrels makes a 60 caliber, justs needs a lot of powder.

[Squeeze]

Ive been playing with a 14 twist .36 cal. I started shooting 9.3 bullets in ~260-280 grn sized down to slightly overbore. (usually 2-3 steps) Still in testing so far. R&D stalled by deer season, and has been slow, mostly waiting for custom sizing dies..etc. Ill pick up again after the holidays

[johnson1942]

the lewis and clark group shot antelope at 300 yards with .58 cal flintlocks. get fast twist and shoot paperpatch or a 70 with the right twist and shoot way out their also. no bad choises.