Most Accurate Pistol Caliber

[bouncer50]

I would say the 38 special and 32 long follow by 44 special and 45 colt in wheel guns. The most accurate auto i fired was the 38 special wad-cutters in the S&W auto. I fired some accurate 45 ACP in auto. I never had much luck with the 32 auto, 380 0r 9mm being accurate. Its seem to me most wheel-guns will out shoot automation out of the box. For target shooting give me a wheel-gun any day. Funny part i carry a 1911 as my protection weapon:-|:-|

[M-Tecs]

My 6mm BR on a XP 100 sometimes does 1/4" MOA out to 200 yards but 3/8" to 1/2" MOA is more normal for five shots. For normal pistol calibers bullet quality and fit is more important than caliber. I have a bunch of 45 Colts but the wide range of throat and chamber sizes make it problematic. I have S&W 52 and a buddy has a S&W 952. They are equally accurate and I would trade him in a heart beat. My 1911 National Match will hold 1" ten shot groups at 50 yards with Winchester Match Ball and Winchester and Federal Semi-wad-cutter match.

[ole 5 hole group]

I would think the most accurate pistol caliber will ultimately be determined by your handgun and load. Some extremely well built 1911's will shoot a hair under an inch at 50 yards with the right ammunition, while others built by a quality gunsmith will struggle to maintain a 3 or 4 inch 10-shot group at 50 yards with excellent ammunition consistently. I think the same can be said for about any handgun out there. It's damn hard to beat a quality 22 rimfire with the right ammunition at 50 yards.

[Zim]

Free hand - revolvers are good
off the bench - Contender or other single shot.

Depends on what is good enough. The reliability in self defense trumps accuracy requirements.

[dilly]

I think sometimes, with revolvers, the high use calibers get produced in huge quantities. That might mean the tooling on a 45 colt revolver tooling is more worn than the tooling on a 41 magnum, or a 38 special is more worn than the tooling on a 327 Federal, etc.

I don't think it plays a huge role, but maybe a little bit of a role if you look at a large number of guns. If the cylinder throats get out of whack or there is a bad thread choke, accuracy can go all over the place.

My little 327 FM is very accurate, but I honestly don't think I'm quite a good enough shot to determine what my most accurate gun is.

[220]

If your talking duty type guns then yeah revolvers do seem to have an edge in accuracy but as a blanket statement I wouldn't agree.
Plenty of very accurate autos available out of the box although most are designed as target guns not carry guns.
Look at what the target shooters are using and autos dominate just about every comp, even Olympic style bullseye shooting is dominated by autos, Walther, Pardini, Hammerli and others all make dedicated target autos in 32swl

[bangerjim]

For me, in revolvers:

1. 38SP/357MAG
2. 44SP/44MAG
3. 45LC

Then in semi's:
1. 40S&W
2. 45ACP
3. 9mm

[Blackwater]

I doubt there IS any answer to this question. Accuracy comes from a combination of the precision and fitting of the gun and the barrel, consistency of the barrel's bore and groove, proper twist, proper bullets and loads, even primers can make a difference in some loads. So, I really think it's a combination of gun AND load MUCH more than it is with what caliber you have. Oh yeah, and brass prep is a biggie too, as is concentricity of chamber and bore. Lots and lots of factors, but caliber isn't likely one of them, usually. Some calibers are MADE, expecially the brass and some of the bullets, to a stricter, tighter standard, but that has nothing to do with the caliber really, and is more a function of the factory's desire to make that particular caliber to be regarded as "accurate."

Take the most accurate ammo in the world, and put it in a gun with off center barrel and chamber, and you'll be lucky just to get any kind of group. Put faulty ammo in the finest, best fitted gun in the world, and again, you won't get very good groups. Accuracy comes from a combination of factors.

Guns like the .38 Spec have long been used and popular for target shooting, so the guns made in that caliber tend, at least sometimes, to be made to tighter standards and cost a little more simply because the maker recognizes the probably end use of them, and doesn't want to get a bad rep if it doesn't live up to that use's standards. Likewise with ammo. Why do you think some ammo is labeled "target wadcutter?" Also, some bullets are now made to the very tightest standards EVER now. Target shooters, especially the long range guys, are constantly searching and exchanging info on what bullets are giving the ultimate results, even when the difference can be only a few thousandths of a MOA.

Lots of factors not even listed here affect accuracy, but actual caliber is one of, if not THE least important.

[Doc Highwall]

They can all be accurate, but under what conditions or distance. A lot of the single shot pistols like a Encore/Contender or XP-100 often shoot like rifles.

There is a triangle in accuracy.........Good gun.....Good ammo......Good shooter, if any one of these is weak the whole system fails.

[220]

Lots of factors not even listed here affect accuracy, but actual caliber is one of, if not THE least important.

I would tend to agree to a point, 32swl would generally be regarded as less accurate than 38 but all current bullseye style autos are chambered for 32S&WL wadcutter only.
Why the 32 well you can build a fixed barrel blowback 32 you cant with a 38 or at least not one that meets the match rules so I guess calibre does come into it but not in the way you would expect.

[rintinglen]

The most accurate cartridge I ever personally fired was the 7 mm BR. You could shoot wasps with it at 100 yards when fired from the Rem XP 100. Five shot sub moa groups were the norm with 130 Grain Sierra bullets, with many under .5 moa.

[johnson1942]

my model 17 S and W target revolver .22 cal cant be beat. its scarry how accurate that thing is.

[Le Loup Solitaire]

I too use a M52 and a 952 for target work as well as a High Standard 10 X and a Supermatic Trophy for 22 LR. All are accurate handguns, but probably the best way to test them is with a Ransom Rest to eliminate shooter error. I don't have the rest, but do the best that I can as is. Some days are better than others and quality of 22 LR ammo can vary quite a bit. Dr. Highwall is right about the triangle in accuracy as a theory...that is why practice is an ongoing requirement. LLS

[Doc Highwall]

Practice does not make perfect!!!......Perfect practice makes perfect!!!

[ErnieBishop]

There is a triangle in accuracy.........Good gun.....Good ammo......Good shooter, if any one of these is weak the whole system fails.
THIS!
I would add a solid rest and good conditions. Truly a systems approach.

[JHeath]

Elmer Keith -- in advocating the .44 Special -- pointed out that the larger case offset small variations in the charges. A 0.1 gr difference in charge weight makes a bigger difference in a .32 Long than in a .44 Special.

There's not much magic in the shape of a piece of brass. But some case designations are associated with combinations of gun designs, twist rates, chamber dimensions etc. that add up to success.

The .41 Colt iirc had a tortured history of heeled vs. unheeled bullets, bore sizes, etc. It faded away.

But the .38 Special survived to have many fine target revolvers chambered for it, and many shooters developing it. All the way down to the SW 952! And it was originally a heeled-bullet BP load iirc.

You could probably build a good bench rest rifle in 6.5x50 Japanese. But the Arisaka service rifles had oversize chambers so nobody thinks of it as an accuracy cartridgle.

[Bigslug]

If it's not a conversation about Bullseye matches and specialty single shots, I have to fight the urge to roll my eyes a bit.

When faced with multiple loading projects, I eventually had to confront my own O.C.D.-induced tendencies toward ultra-precision in all things with asking the question "WHAT IS THIS FIREARM AND AMMO ACTUALLY FOR?"

With handguns not fired from rests, the combination of gun and ammo need to be truly horrible NOT to be above the problems usually brought to the party by simple human errors of grip, sighting, and trigger control. As a handgun is typically a tool for solving problems of a human nature at short range, if it can reliably hit a large soup can inside of 20 yards WHEN I DO MY PART, I stop losing sleep over it.

On the topic of mechanical accuracy:

Revolvers: you get variability from multiple firing chambers and lockup points. This is pretty much locked in and inescapable unless you want to shoot the gun as a single shot from one chamber only. . .which a lot of Bullseye shooters were known to do in the 50Y slowfire event.

Automatics: The hypothetical argument thrown out against the Browning recoil system is that the barrel moves in relation to the sights every shot, however, the recoil springs slam the parts back very consistently from shot to shot. It's often the first shot that's out of the group because chambering the round by hand seats things differently than subsequent rounds that allow the gun to do its thing.

Cartridge design: Low pressure and high case volume minimizes the effect of load variability. A rimmed case will headspace more consistently than a round that seats on the mouth - at least without a whole lot of tedious trimming.

So. . .pretty hard to beat the Smith 52 wadcutter pistol on paper. A .45 Colt semi auto as the ultimate answer?

Perhaps, but again, IT'S A HANDGUN. I'll choose a rifle if I need to drive tacks.

[Char-Gar]

The most accurate? That would be a good 22 LR match pistol with good ammo. I have several score center fire revolvers and pistols and none can get close to my Clark/Ruger race gun.

[ole 5 hole group]

^^^ That damn Ruger/Clark bull barrel with irons was the pistol to beat on the line and now with optics - I call foul!!! My Sweat & Miss'um 41 long barrel wasn't too far behind.

[paul h]

The most accurate revolver I've had is my Ruger 480 SRH. Scoped off the bench it'll put five into a 1" group at 50 yds and has done so with over 1/2 dozen different boolit designs. Honestly I think the gun is moa accurate as I've shot a 100 yd 3 shot group that was a touch over an inch and horizontally strung which was due to me.

I've had some contender barrels that would shoot sub moa. But I take it this discussion was about handgun cartridges, not handguns chambered for rifle cartridges.

[str8wal]

I doubt there IS any answer to this question. Accuracy comes from a combination of the precision and fitting of the gun and the barrel, consistency of the barrel's bore and groove, proper twist, proper bullets and loads, even primers can make a difference in some loads. So, I really think it's a combination of gun AND load MUCH more than it is with what caliber you have.

What he said ^^^

Accuracy is not determined by bore size.

[Merick]

50 meter free pistol is one of the oldest olympic sports and uses specialized single shot .22's. that are as accurate as accurate gets.

After that and of more interest to us re-loaders, wad cutters are where it is at accuracy wise, 38 special and 32 s&w long. Those will be by far the easiest to get competition accuracy from especially if you are rolling your own. Low pressures, straight walled cases are easier on bullets, head space on rim is more consistent.

And third on my list would be 1911's. They can do very well indeed but it is no short road to get there, however it is well marked and paved.

To get a 9mm to be accurate is not impossible but a tough row to hoe. Most every 9 pistol is going to be a combat or police gun made to function first and be accurate later. Tapered case, small volume, higher pressures, varied specs and manufacturers, there are just not many inherent factors that contribute to accuracy.

[220]

So. . .pretty hard to beat the Smith 52 wadcutter pistol on paper.

Not really you only have to look at any of the bullseye 32 wadcutter autos, fixed barrel so all the advantages of the 52 on paper and more. More advantage in actual use as well, more adjustability in sights, grips, balance, lower recoil etc all increase the odds of shooting closer to the pistols accuracy potential.
The 52 might be the pinnacle of development for that style of pistol but was long ago surpassed as the pinnacle of development in centre fire target pistols. I doubt you will see anything other than a fixed barrel 32 wadcutter pistol in any international centre fire competition.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

The most accurate handgun I ever owned was a Sig 226. There were a lot of these purchased around 1989 and right out of the box many had Olympic grade accuracy. That's what we called it tho none of us had shot in the Olympics. What I observed was the barrels were so shines they looked wet when you looked down the bore. Today I am left with the belief that accuracy in a firearm is in the quality of the bore. I had an AR that avoided any kind of decent groups. I had it re-barreled with a match barrel that shot much better than I could. Again the first barrel looked dull and fouled no matter how much I cleaned it and the match barrel looked "shinny" even after firing.

[S. Galbraith]

I think there are a LOT of factors that determine an accurate caliber. Excluding the firearm, the cartridge needs to be loaded correctly for its pressure levels. Naturally, lower pressure revolver cartridges will be easier to make accurate. Less power needed to adequately swell the brass for tight seal, less stress on the bullet during firing, and generally a more uniform powder burn. So, yes .38spl is a great candidate for most accurate.

[williamwaco]

To me, accurate means around 1/2 to 1 inch at 25 yards.

My observation is that if we are talking about quality handguns. There is very little difference between the TC, a Smith or Ruger revolver and a good 1911. Any of them will beat 1 inch at 25 yards.

But the question was about pistol cartridges. In my experience there is a direct correlation between accuracy and bore size. The larger the bore, the smaller the groups. There are many theories to explain this but I am not going there.

From worst to best, I would rank them like this. 9mm, .38/.357, .41, .44, .45, .22LR.

HA! That .22LR messes up the ranking!

I have no experience with .30/.32 or .40 so I will not speculate.

[Jtarm]

If your talking duty type guns then yeah revolvers do seem to have an edge in accuracy but as a blanket statement I wouldn't agree.
Plenty of very accurate autos available out of the box although most are designed as target guns not carry guns.
Look at what the target shooters are using and autos dominate just about every comp, even Olympic style bullseye shooting is dominated by autos, Walther, Pardini, Hammerli and others all make dedicated target autos in 32swl

The dominance of autos in competition has to do with their suitability for timed/rapid fire, not any edge in accuracy.

That's not to say any of the autos you mention aren't super-accurate. But...you can't compare them to an off-the-shelf Ruger Blackhawk. A Freedom Arms revolver would be more apples-to-apples.

I agree with an earlier reply: accuracy is more a function of gun and load than any caliber being superior to others. Also depends on the context: 25-yard bullseye, or 200 yard prairie dog?

[paul h]

It's an interesting discussion because there is the issue of shootability, and the issue of accuracy.

If we stretch the range out to 100 or 200 yards and plunk the gun on a rest, then I venture to say with a properly built revolver and worked up loads you aren't going to see any accuracy difference between a 357, 44, 45, 475, or 50. If anything the bigger bores will be more accurate.

But when you're talking about offhand shooting, the mild recoil of the 22rf, 32 and 38 make them more shootable and hence their small groups at 25 and 50 yards.

[Jtarm]

William, I think you're right.

IDK the dynamics involved, but all things being equal, heavier projectiles will be more accurate at longer ranges.

Wiley Clapp published a very comprehensive test years ago, taking S&W model 57s and 29s with barrel lengths from 4" to 8 3/8 (a lot were custom lengths, like 7.5"). They were tested in a Ransom rest with a variety of loads ranging from 180 to 300 grain in the .44 magnum at 25, ,50, 75, and 100 yards. The 180s may have been more accurate at 25, but in almost every test, the 300 grain slugs gave by far the best accuracy at 100 yards.

IIRC the trend was 100 yard accuracy improved as bullet weight increased.

BTW, are you in Waco? I'm in Fort Worth.

[birch]

.45 Colt the best for me

.45acp in a 1911 the worst--it takes an artist to shoot a 1911 properly and accurately. I think 90 percent of 1911 shooters might as well buy a rock island. They certainly can't use the accuracy of a Baer.

[ErnieBishop]

I think 90 percent of 1911 shooters might as well buy a rock island. They certainly can't use the accuracy of a Baer.
This made me smile:bigsmyl2:

[bedbugbilly]

Most accurate? The caliber and handgun you consistently practice with often and learn where it hits in regards to you aim in correlation to you load . . .

[Markbo]

I have several Ruger MK pistols. One off the shelf slabside is accurate enough to put 3 rounds on the nail heads that hold the backerboards on the 25 yard targets at my range. I dont shoot too many of them because it causes work to be needed for the target boys, but it will do it consistently.

Hmmm...I havent done it in a couple of years. Maybe I need to see how my .22 shooting is. :D

[apen]

It's an interesting discussion because there is the issue of shootability, and the issue of accuracy.

If we stretch the range out to 100 or 200 yards and plunk the gun on a rest, then I venture to say with a properly built revolver and worked up loads you aren't going to see any accuracy difference between a 357, 44, 45, 475, or 50. If anything the bigger bores will be more accurate.

But when you're talking about offhand shooting, the mild recoil of the 22rf, 32 and 38 make them more shootable and hence their small groups at 25 and 50 yards.


Not just because they are shot offhand. Those 22 target pistols are accurate period. I think it would take a hell of a revolver to what they do. Stretch it out to 100 then sure....

http://www.marvelprecision.com/target.php

[OS OK]

My little Colt Combat Commander puts the all the rounds in the exact same hole…the only trouble I have is that from the distance I shoot the target keeps catching fire.

[ErnieBishop]

You can do a lot with a 22lr
Custom Clone Charger @ 500 yards (bi-pod and small field bag) 7-shots.
Not the best of conditions, but good conditions.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j4/xphunter_2006/ED8A8D1A-7A5E-436E-84A3-606D6E1EBA88_zpssboedzkz.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/xphunter_2006/media/ED8A8D1A-7A5E-436E-84A3-606D6E1EBA88_zpssboedzkz.jpg.html)

[apen]

My 1911 National Match will hold 1" ten shot groups at 50 yards with Winchester Match Ball and Winchester and Federal Semi-wad-cutter match.

Holy F'N Cow that pistol is a keeper. Ball ammo? WOW! Who did the work on the pistol?

[Plastikosmd]

Only 100yd here 22lr, 2 groups with this ammo, first group showed potential at 1", second tightened up to closer to 0.5". That was a wallet group, for sure. I use to think my old 40x grouping at .75-1" @ 100 was great. Now, I had to second guess what my most accurate 22 is in my stable.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/plastikosmd/freedom%20arms/5089ef027f92338c6bcb5c99d576fbf0.jpg_zpsjr6i8nac.p ng

[tdoyka]

"back in the day":smile: , before my stroke, i used to shoot a 44 rem mag in ruger super redhawk and 200gr xtp and win296( with a red dot(can't remember which one) at 100 yards(with a bench and bags) and i got 1 3/4" with five shots. normally it ran about 2 1/2" - 3 1/2". i ended up getting 2 or 3 deer under 30 yards and one big old doe at 125+/- yards. unfortunatly, i had to sell it. but i've gotten another ruger srh in 44 mag. with trail boss and unique, i might be able to shoot a deer at 50 yards, with one hand and bog pods!

[robertbank]

I would think an Olympic Free Pistol combined with either match 22LR or 22Short would out shoot most handguns made today. If we are really talking about "most accurate". Find the latest Olympic Gold Medalist in this discipline and you will have the complete package.

[S. Galbraith]

I'll chime in again in that the recurring opinions here tend to favor the lower pressure cartridge, whether the poster realizes the reasons or not. .22lr, .38spl, .45 Colt, .45acp......all have relatively low operating pressures that more gently accelerate the bullet downrange resulting in more consistency. However, if you have even the slightest wind those .22lr long shots will be greatly effected by the wind as a result of low ballistic coefficient and low mass. Naturally, larger calibers in heavy bullet weights can seem more accurate outdoors due to resistance to windage.

[bruce drake]

Interesting for me is that my 1911 in 38 Super (130gr LEE 36-caliber conical resized to .358 from .367) is my most accurate center-fire auto and my Rossi 66 is a great 357 duty pistol that loves the Ideal 358311 160gr RN in a 38 Spl loading. But then again, my 1911 45 prefers 200gr SWC over any 230gr roundball I've tried in it.

[Bill*B]

The most accurate pistol I've ever owned was a Colt 1911 "National Match" in .45 ACP.

[220]

I would think an Olympic Free Pistol combined with either match 22LR or 22Short would out shoot most handguns made today. If we are really talking about "most accurate". Find the latest Olympic Gold Medalist in this discipline and you will have the complete package.

Happen to know a few shooters who have competed at the Olympics, one of them shot a centre fire match with a 9mm, only a informal match not in serious competition but wanted to prove it could be done and a reasonable score could be shot, 580 sort of proved his point.

Without optical sights and a steady rest even the best Olympic shooters cant shoot to the accuracy level a good gun can. Probably why most development in Olympic pistols has been in making them easier to shoot than chasing more accuracy.
Like a few posts on here have shown there are plenty of 22 revolvers and out of the box autos that have the accuracy potential to shoot a 600 60x free pistol score. Getting a gun accurate enough is easy getting a shooter that can do it while not impossible lets just say hasn't happened in over 100 years of competition or even been seriously threatened.

[Mike Kerr]

Reading this thread has been fun. I think what Blackwater said: "Lots of factors not even listed here affect accuracy, but actual caliber is one of, if not THE least important" is spot on.

[Markbo]

.... But then again, my 1911 45 prefers 200gr SWC over any 230gr roundball I've tried in it.....

That is my findings in all my 1911s as well.

[saleen322]

The most accurate center-fire revolver I shot is a S&W X-frame 460. I was trying loads with it and thought I would shoot some at 100 yards. It put five shots, using all five chambers, in under 2" at 100 yards. I got a chuckle out of it and thought I will never do that again so I adjust the scope and shoot 5 more. It did it again. Keeper!! :bigsmyl2:

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Targets/460%20Smith%20and%20Wesson/460-200FPX.jpg http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/Targets/460%20Smith%20and%20Wesson/200-100Yrds-1.jpg

[Markbo]

Just out of curiosity do you ever shoot heavier bullets out of yours? I have a 6" Custom Center version abd it is a thunderous handful with 200gr factory ammo - all I have ever shot out of it.

[saleen322]

I just started experimenting. I recently got a NOE mold that casts a 265 flat point gas check. I had taken the scope off so just using iron sights, it is around 2" groups @ 25 yards with the first try. It think the 265 may do fine but those dang 200s shoot so good! [smilie=w:

[saleen322]

Also have to agree that these are pretty accurate as well.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/22%20Pistols/PardiniFPM-1_zps8e8fa167.jpg

[S. Galbraith]

Also have to agree that these are pretty accurate as well.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/22%20Pistols/PardiniFPM-1_zps8e8fa167.jpg

Those things are insanely priced. Is it worth the money?

[saleen322]

Those things are insanely priced. Is it worth the money?

Well I really like quality 22s and this is one. I have shot some free pistol matches and it puts my ego in check--I really get humbled! lol To me it is worth the money just to see the accuracy, feel what is probably one of the best triggers on anything, and great sights. So to me, it is worth it. Also so long as you take reasonable care of these pistols, you never really lose much if any money on them. But this one, I don't see me ever selling. It is just so neat to shoot. :smile:

[Markbo]

I have a Pardini Nygord Master. A little less Buck Rogers looking. ;) My only complaint is that I can't find a holster for it. :D

[TXGunNut]

When I shot PPC I saw some pretty awesome groups fired with S&W revolvers in 38spl. On a good day even a "stock" S&W revolver will hold the X-ring on a B-27 target at 50 yards. I used a Ruger MKI to spank a few Euro-gun afficianados at plate matches back in the day mainly because they would miss or guns would jam. I had neither problem and the old buggar thought Winchester Wildcat was target ammo, still does.

[saleen322]

I never can walk past a good 22 pistol. Every time I get another one, I swear I am on the wagon and that is it....and then I fall off again! All of these buggers are accurate.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/22%20Pistols/PistolsinRack.jpg

[DougGuy]

The most accurate I owned for a production gun was a 1923 Luger in .30 Luger caliber, it was just stupidly accurate out to 100yds with Fiocci(?) ammo. The most accurate custom was a TC with a Bullberry barrel in a shortened .45 Colt chamber, it was much like Schofield brass only shorter. Groups were measured with a vernier caliper as most standing unsupported 3 shot groups were under .100" at short ranges, I used this gun to shoot dots and won a few matches.

[Markbo]

Oh come on saleen! You cant post a pic like that without telling what they all are...and posting more .22 pistol porn! :D

[saleen322]

Oh come on saleen! You cant post a pic like that without telling what they all are...and posting more .22 pistol porn! :D

Sorry, (from left to right) laying down, Hamden High Standard Supermatic Citation, Texas High Standard Victor, (shooting stand) Texas High Standard Trophy. In the wooden rack, L to R: Hammerli 208, Benelli 90-World Cup, Pardini SP, FAS 602, Browning Medalist, and Baikal IZH-35M :grin:

[Le Loup Solitaire]

That lineup is absolutely awesome. There isn't too much more that could be added to it, but I'm sure that a few things could be included if one could pony up the cash. Each pistol has a known reputation that is indeed enviable in the bullseye world and I have seen some of them in European competition at one time or another. They are hard to beat. Congratulations on a most impressive collection. LLS

[S. Galbraith]

I never can walk past a good 22 pistol. Every time I get another one, I swear I am on the wagon and that is it....and then I fall off again! All of these buggers are accurate.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/22%20Pistols/PistolsinRack.jpg

No Rugers?

[bouncer50]

No Rugers? Or the old Colts Woodsman ?

[saleen322]

No Rugers?

Yep, lots of them too...

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/22%20Pistols/Ruger1.jpg

[saleen322]

That lineup is absolutely awesome. There isn't too much more that could be added to it, but I'm sure that a few things could be included if one could pony up the cash. Each pistol has a known reputation that is indeed enviable in the bullseye world and I have seen some of them in European competition at one time or another. They are hard to beat. Congratulations on a most impressive collection. LLS

Thanks. I just have the addiction and can't pass one up! :veryconfu

[S. Galbraith]

Thanks. I just have the addiction and can't pass one up! :veryconfu

I'd almost say an unhealthy addiction, but who am I kidding. :)

[Silvercreek Farmer]

I always find the Ransom tests conducted by various magazines interesting. Most mainstream factory revolvers/pistols come in around 1.5"-3" at 25 yards with various brands of factory (including premium) ammo. Some a hair better, some worse, but hardly ever does a 1-2 MOA combination show up with a revolver or semi-auto. Not saying it can't be done, but I don't think it happens very often with typical off the shelf offerings.

Personally, my eyes are not good for more than 2 inches or so at 25 so anything better is wasted on a hand gun without optics.

[saleen322]

I always find the Ransom tests conducted by various magazines interesting. Most mainstream factory revolvers/pistols come in around 1.5"-3" at 25 yards with various brands of factory (including premium) ammo. Some a hair better, some worse, but hardly ever does a 1-2 MOA combination show up with a revolver or semi-auto. Not saying it can't be done, but I don't think it happens very often with typical off the shelf offerings....

A good 22LR with the right ammo can get inside of 2 MOA (under 1" @ 50 yards). This is some testing I did with some of the new High Standards at 50 yards.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/22%20Pistols/TrophyTgtSK.jpg http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/High%20Standard%20Barrel%20Testing/Victor.jpg http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/High%20Standard%20Barrel%20Testing/Silhouette-WS.jpg

[rfd]

1967 s&w model 14-2 in 38spl, w/custom target grips. silly accurate off hand. yeah, like a dummy, i sold it. grrrrr.

http://i.imgur.com/cBDbEdv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fhteSCm.jpg

[tazman]

Yep, lots of them too...

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/22%20Pistols/Ruger1.jpg

I am glad to see that picture posted. I just purchased one of those and am waiting for the wait time to run out so I can bring it home and shoot the thing. Nice to see that it will almost certainly be more accurate than I am.

[rfd]

the ruger comp mark3 is a good one.

http://i.imgur.com/IHpbiob.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MBDpxT5.jpg

[saleen322]

I am glad to see that picture posted. I just purchased one of those and am waiting for the wait time to run out so I can bring it home and shoot the thing. Nice to see that it will almost certainly be more accurate than I am.

I am sure you will be happy with it. That was shot with standard velocity ammo. The Ruger will shoot everything I tried but I always got the best accuracy with SV ammo.

[apen]

Saleem, did you ever test any of the Nelson conversion units? I use a Nelson unit in BE for the same grip as 45 and for the reduced expense of having a dedicated .22 pistol. I'm sure they aren't on par with the euro guns you have in the shot group at 50 department, but they aren't holding me back.

[saleen322]

Saleem, did you ever test any of the Nelson conversion units? I use a Nelson unit in BE for the same grip as 45 and for the reduced expense of having a dedicated .22 pistol. I'm sure they aren't on par with the euro guns you have in the shot group at 50 department, but they aren't holding me back.

I haven't had the chance to test any of the conversions. Those groups I posted above were all shot with new High Standards made in Texas. The Europeans shoot well but not really any better than the US made High Standard.

[mtnman31]

I never can walk past a good 22 pistol. Every time I get another one, I swear I am on the wagon and that is it....and then I fall off again! All of these buggers are accurate.

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt98/saleen322/22%20Pistols/PistolsinRack.jpg
Nice. If you ever get the itch to sell your Hammerli (looks like a 208) let me know. I shot one for two seasons and fell in love with it. Unfortunately, it was a team gun that was a loaner.

[9.3X62AL]

Perhaps, but again, IT'S A HANDGUN. I'll choose a rifle if I need to drive tacks.

This gets my vote, if for no other reason than I'm a pragmatic sort.

The most accurate handgun I've ever fired is an easy choice--a friend's 3-caliber Walther GSP-C (22 Short, 22 LR, 32 SWL/WC). I fired a lot of 22 LR and 32 wadcutters out of it, and it was scary-accurate. I had a chance to buy the kit and should have, but demurred due to lack of bucks at the time. Cuss words go [here].

Most accurate handgun I've ever owned.......also easy, my S&W Model 16-4. Hornady HBWCs in Starline mag brass with 2.0 grains of WW-231 will cut chrysanthemums in an X-ring at 25 yards all day long. RCBS 32-98-SWC is almost that good with any powder giving 850-900 FPS.

One more recent addition might give the 32 a race, though. My Gold Cup NM/Series 80 hasn't been fired much, since it landed during The Great Components Drought. The small amount of firing I've given it shows it to be very fond of Lee 200 SWC and Lyman #452460 atop 4.5 grains of WW-231. My initial thought was to "flip" this Gold Cup since my agency has been so sketchy about approving 1911A1 variants for carry, but its apparent accuracy might earn it a spot in the safe.

[44man]

It is always the gun. But in the .22 today it is ammo. I love the Rugers but still, too many great autos for the .22 that the limit is ammo. As you go up in caliber it will be the gun alone and a S&W, Ruger or whatever will shoot if right. I have shot $2500 guns I would not give a toe nail clipping for.
Does not seem to be caliber at all in any gun ever made. It comes to fit and precision. However I have never found a six gun in .22 worth a hoot except the K22. Harder to get the small bore correct.

[dubber123]

It is always the gun. But in the .22 today it is ammo. I love the Rugers but still, too many great autos for the .22 that the limit is ammo. As you go up in caliber it will be the gun alone and a S&W, Ruger or whatever will shoot if right. I have shot $2500 guns I would not give a toe nail clipping for.
Does not seem to be caliber at all in any gun ever made. It comes to fit and precision. However I have never found a six gun in .22 worth a hoot except the K22. Harder to get the small bore correct.

I haven't found .22 revolvers to shoot as well as a good .22 auto. The Ruger Mk series is only held back by poor triggers and sights, both easily corrected. It really is the individual gun rather than caliber. I have at least 3 K-22's, and I have a little 4" J-frame M34 kit gun that shoots circles around all of them. In my personal experience, my most accurate handgun I currently own technically is a 6-1/2" barreled 50-70 Contender. Yep, worst possible combination of huge case, short barrel, has to be fiddled with a lot between shots, etc, etc. Still I fired 3 back to back sub 1" 50 yard groups with it. Smallest was .557" Who would have picked this thing to be accurate? Not me. I was hoping for end of can at 50 yard accuracy when I had it made.

Point is, good gun, good load, good shooter, good groups.

[saleen322]

It is always the gun. But in the .22 today it is ammo. I love the Rugers but still, too many great autos for the .22 that the limit is ammo. As you go up in caliber it will be the gun alone and a S&W, Ruger or whatever will shoot if right. I have shot $2500 guns I would not give a toe nail clipping for.
Does not seem to be caliber at all in any gun ever made. It comes to fit and precision. However I have never found a six gun in .22 worth a hoot except the K22. Harder to get the small bore correct.

Two other 22 revolvers that I have seen shoot very well are Dan Wesson and Freedom Arms.

[Markbo]

I have 2 Single Sixes that are 1" @ 25 yards. Doesnt sound special but with me behind open sights that is spectacular accuracy. One was worked over by Alan Harton. The other a relatively new model (2012) Bisley tbat I just lucked out on. Of course I have MKs I can shoot better, but they are scoped.

[9.3X62AL]

22 LR wheelguns haven't been especially good to me over the years. Two were/are good shooters, a Colt Officer's Model Match that was VERY ammo-selective--but doted on the stuff it favored. It went down the road in a divorce fire sale some years back. The other one still lives at my house, a S&W Model 617 (6-shot) x 6" that looks like the Model 16-4's albino brother. CCI Mini-Mags and SGBs (Seldom Get Bought) are superbly accurate, and have been the cleanest-shooting rimfire ammo I've used.

I've had relatively few 22 LR self-loading pistols. I do have a Ruger 22/45 x 5.5" that shoots wonderfully with just about everything I've ever tried in it. It is a delight. We also have a SIG-Sauer Mosquito that was bought as a sub-caliber trainer for Marie. Once it shot loose (1500 CCI Mini-Mags later) it became reliable, but its accuracy is only so-so. It has NICE service sights, though. Overall, a bit disappointing. If 22 LR ammo ever becomes generally available again, I might re-enter the quality 22 autopistol market.......something along the lines of a SIG Trailside/Hammerli X-Esse or S&W M-41.

[jmorris]

My 7mm BR pistol is my most accurate

[saleen322]

My 7mm BR pistol is my most accurate

They shoot well. I had my XP-100 7mm BR rechambered in 7mm IHMSA International. It is what I competed with in Silhouette. Very accurate.

[tenx]

look at what the bullseye shooters are shooting, in a traditional type pistol the 9mm of all things outshoots the 38 and 45. they can make the m9 beretta consistently shoot 1 inch groups and under at 50 yards with handloads with nosler boolits. i'm a diehard 1911 bullseye fan and that is a bitter pill to swallow.
the 45 acp is very accurate but overall groups run a little larger than 1 inch at 50 yards for a good bullseye pistol on the average. it's reminds me of the accuracy differences between the 30-06 and the 308, i really like the 30-06 in a big way but the 308 wins hands down in overall accuracy, just look at the records, the 308 has broken most if not all long range records the 30-06 once held, i really like the 45 acp but the 9mm spanks it in overall potential accuracy. not trying to ruffle feathers or start a war, just stating what i see. also glad to see others are continually seeking more accurate guns and loads.

[35remington]

I did quite a search. Nobody's claiming a sub inch gun at fifty with their builds. For example:

http://www.mountaincompetitionpistols.com/NationalMatchM9 This outfit is charging a mere $2150 for the job (only 1850 IF you supply the pistol) and it's not an inch pistol!

Methinks you are confusing the potential accuracy of the barrel with the potential accuracy of the gun. Here's what they are actually saying:

"All MCP barrels are tested in a purpose built barrel tester to ensure that they group under 1.5 inch at 50 yards."

That's the barrel, not the gun. 1911 barrels can group to that standard too.

[castalott]

That is my findings in all my 1911s as well.

Several posters here mention that 200 grain bullets shoot better in 1911's than 230's. I find this interesting due to the rumor ( I don't know how to check it for fact) that John Browning's original loading for the military pistol was a 200 grain bullet at 900 fps. The military , in their wisdom, demanded a 230 grain at 830 fps.

(1)Does anyone definitely know why?

(2) Does anyone know why the 200 grainers shoot better?

( I have a guess or 2 but they are not worth the electrons in this post...)

Thanks, Dale

[35remington]

Yes, the 230 RN's carry more of their weight forward, and less is over the bearing surface of the bullet. The 185 and 200 SWC's tend to be better balanced.

[castalott]

What about a truncated cone 230 grain such as the Lee? Those seem to shoot as good as I can ( maybe nothing to brag about...LOL)

Thank,Dale

[saleen322]

I did quite a search. Nobody's claiming a sub inch gun at fifty with their builds....

I too have not seen sub-one inch claims. The best I have seen is David Sams with his Beretta 92 9mm match builds:
Test at 50 yds/Guaranteed Accuracy (match standards) Normally 1.3” or less – 10 shots – 50 yds from H.E.G. mechanical fixture

[ironhead7544]

Had a Contender with octagon barrel in 221 Fire Ball. Very accurate. And a 10 inch 357 Max barrel that was close.

I once had a Glock 17 and added an AeroTec built in laser. The laser was on the front of the trigger guard and was about the size of a fired 9mm case. Off the bench I could shoot around 2.5 inch groups with the CorBon 115 gr ammo. With the laser, the groups shrank to 1 inch. This was a box stock pistol. I had a couple of police instructors who were very accomplished shots also try it on an indoor range at 25 yards. From the side, I could see the bullet hit the laser dot every time. My guess is that pistols are more accurate than we think.

[9.3X62AL]

My guess is that pistols are more accurate than we think.

Very likely so. I know for a fact that most handguns are more accurate than I am. I am the loose nut retaining the grips, not the threaded steel part. :-)