alloy question.

[twc1964]

Ok folks, i know there is a downloadable alloy calculator but my junk phone wont load it. Also, no home pc either. My question is...i saw a member posting antimonial lead ingots for sale in 20lb lots. I have about 125 lbs of 8.0bhn ingots i need to harden to 10.5-11 bhn after water dropping. Would this amount of hard lead be enuff to do what i need? I use range scrap and its pretty darn soft for my uses. Any help will be appreciated. Thx

[twc1964]

Oh, alloy im looking at has 7 percent antimony. Im guessing that tid bit of info would be critical, lol

[Yodogsandman]

What do you want to do with it? Pistol, rifle, HV rifle? What is your target BHN?

[twc1964]

Im looking to get 10.5-11 bhn after water dropping em. This will be for 357 mag, 9mm etc

[Yodogsandman]

So, what do you get now, when you water drop your range scrap. I'd think that 8 BHN range scrap would water drop to a 10-11 BHN after age hardening about a week.

[twc1964]

If i water drop the range scrap as is i get about 9bhn. When a made a small batch for casting for my thirty thirty, i used about 50-60 old 18bhn 358 commercial boolits i didnt use any more to harden The lead to 12 bhn water dropped. Im out od unused hard cast stuff and dont have a scrap of lino. The hard lead in s&s section seems like a good deal. Just trying to pick a few brains until i get the hang of this part of casting. Thx

[popper]

Rotometal has super hard 30% Sb on sale this week, $18 for 5#, shipping extra. 15# to your 125# should do it. It will take about 90# of 7% to get there.

[twc1964]

Well popper, i was sorta hoping to keep the price a bit lower. I wish i could swing some of that though.

[bumpo628]

Since range lead is an unknown, I ran some numbers using pure lead instead. Brinell number estimates are air cooled.

20 lbs of 7% antimonial lead + 125 lbs of pure lead = alloy with 1% antimony @ 9.5 bhn
40 lbs of 7% antimonial lead + 125 lbs of pure lead = alloy with 1.7% antimony @ 10.2 bhn
60 lbs of 7% antimonial lead + 125 lbs of pure lead = alloy with 2.3% antimony @ 10.7 bhn
80 lbs of 7% antimonial lead + 125 lbs of pure lead = alloy with 2.7% antimony @ 11.1 bhn

According to the numbers above, looks like you could get the water dropped results you're looking for with about 40 lbs of the antimonial lead. Of course your range lead has some tin & antimony in there too, so that will help as well.


For comparison, here are some numbers with rotometals superhard.

5 lbs of 30% antimonial lead + 125 lbs of pure lead = alloy with 1.1% antimony @ 9.7 bhn
10 lbs of 30% antimonial lead + 125 lbs of pure lead = alloy with 2.2% antimony @ 10.6 bhn
15 lbs of 30% antimonial lead + 125 lbs of pure lead = alloy with 3.2% antimony @ 11.6 bhn
20 lbs of 30% antimonial lead + 125 lbs of pure lead = alloy with 4.1% antimony @ 12.4 bhn


Try downloading the free program Apache Open Office to run the alloy calculator. There is a link on the first post of the calculator thread.

[bangerjim]

What you are finding out it - you will have to spend some money to sweeten your (probably) free range lead to get to where you want. We all do.

You can PC your boolits and shoot softer lead (9-12 is what I do). I am fortunate to have many hundreds of # of COWW's and high Sb lead to mix with soft. PC gives you protection without grease and a harder covering/lube to let you shoot softer lead and stretch your alloys as some do. I do it because I hate grease. And smoke. And sticky boolits in the summer.

Check it out in alt coatings section.

Also consider NOT mixing a huge batch of alloy of a specific hardness. Why do you think you need to mix 125# at one time?????? If you are funds limited, buy smaller quantities and mix it as you need it. Bhn is NOT that critical these days. FIT IS KING! I mix my casting alloys in my 20# bottom pour pots from the primary alloys I need. Mixing a big huge batch limits you somewhat to varying your alloy for different needs as time goes on.

Whatever you decide, have fun!

bangerjim

[twc1964]

Banger, i pay 40 cents a pound for my range scrap from a fellow who cleans out indoor bullet traps. I already pc all my boolits in .380,9mm,45acp and 38-357 along with thirty thirty. The big batch is because i can use this alloy for all my pistol stuff. I really dont do much experimentation with hardness on my stuff. I just find what works for me and stick with it. Im looking at a rather large batch of mixed lino and mono on fleabay right now. Think im gonna try for it if i can get a decent price on it. Theres enuff in that lot to harden quite a bit o the soft stuff. Also, i thank everyone for their input on this. I guess its time to shell out a few bucks for sweetener lol.

[bangerjim]

Is that evilbay batch in original type form? Or cast-by-someone ingots.......which you have absolutely no idea of what is in there. Only buy type metal in it's original native from, or in the linotype pigs they used to feed the machines. Otherwise, do not trust anyone on evilbay!

I do not trust anyone.

banger

[twc1964]

Banger, its in original form. Letters, blocks, strips etc. Wouldnt buy from there in ingots. Too risky for my blood lol.

[bangerjim]

Excellent! Hope you get it at a good price. It is very useful for sweetening your mix!

banger

[RogerDat]

The upside of big batch is you then have a lot of alloy that is consistent across many casting sessions. The downside is you can't get the sweeteners back out to use for something different.

If you have the ingredients to add more alloy to a "base line" alloy which can be used for most of your basic plinking ammo and then sweeten it a touch for high power rounds. Or soften a bit for hollow points.

Good luck on the printing alloy from e-bay. Don't forget spacer strips can be anything from soft plain lead to monotype. They don't need to be hard alloy because they are just put between the letters for spacing. They might be hard alloy or might not be. Spacers are a coin toss. Single letters or strips with words on them are the "known" printers lead that has the alloy you want.

[typz2slo]

I bought 70/30 bars of antimony for sweetener from Rotometals. Iy came in 5lb bars and i am going to melt it down i to 1/2lb bars so its easier to use.

[twc1964]

The type metal im trying for is a mix of mono and foundry. Once i get it home i can read up on how to correctly sort it out . I have been needing to do this for quite a while. I have a huge pewter plate/bowl thingy that weighs over 7 lbs to melt or sell, depending if it will sell for same amount i can buy tin for. Its old as heck so ive been putting it off lol.