Want to cast for CVA Optima V2 inline...

[Curlymaple42]

Just curious if anyone has any experience casting boolits for the CVA Optima V2 inline muzzleloader? My thought it the most accurate way to go is cast a .452 boolit and plop it in a sabot made for the .50cal. I want easy, cheap practice boolits. Those Powerbelt type bullets are very expensive and I want to shoot the smoke pole when I get it! I likely have enough lead to cast me boolits for the next three lifetimes at this point. Oh, and if loading a boolit in a sabot, does the alloy really matter much?

[newton]

Honestly, I would forget about the sabot and go the paper patching route. I have the same gun, and it shoots sweet out to 200 yards(150 is easy) with "Ron's" paper patching method. Look it up. They are easier to load and cost way less. Not to mention that when an animal gets hit with them its game over.

This is my experience for what its worth.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?282443-CVA-inline-sight-in

[Curlymaple42]

Interesting! Thank you.

[1845greyhounds]

Alternatively, you could shoot j-words in Harvester sabots.
( https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/ - they cost about $9 for 50)
It's probably the easiest path and doesn't cost that much when you consider how much anyone really shoots a ML. It's hard to beat a 250 gr 0.452" Hornady XTP or 300gr 0.458" Hornady HP in a Harvester sabot... But I understand the desire to shoot a boolit of your own making.

[Curlymaple42]

Yeh, those were the sabots I was considering. I was thinking of casting a .452 boolit of some sort. The paperpatch thing is interesting, but I don't have a sizer. I actually do have a bunch of .500 boolits I had cast for the .50Beowulf but haven't tried them. I bet those would work as they are .501 and have a copper cup on the base. Anyways, just looking at my options!

[dondiego]

Alternatively, you could shoot j-words in Harvester sabots.
( https://www.harvestermuzzleloading.com/ - they cost about $9 for 50)
It's probably the easiest path and doesn't cost that much when you consider how much anyone really shoots a ML. It's hard to beat a 250 gr 0.452" Hornady XTP or 300gr 0.458" Hornady HP in a Harvester sabot... But I understand the desire to shoot a boolit of your own making.

1854 - I know people who shoot thousands of rounds per year out of ML's. Shooting XTP's would be expensive!

[newton]

Yea, I started thinking of using sabots and boolit combinations but I shoot more than most do. After thinking of the cost, it was a no brainer to go with full size slugs and wrap with paper. VERY easy to do, no lube needed. Just a mold, a sizer, and some paper.

In fact, if you go that route I can mail you some sheets of paper that would make you enough patches for quite a long time. I bought a ream, but it would take a LONG time or way more shooting than I do to go through it all.

[Curlymaple42]

I guess Newton that getting a sizer, especially just a LEE sizer, wouldn't bee a big expense. So a boolit mold, the .501 sizer?, and some paper. Hmmmm... What boolit mold do you have?

[Vann]

I buy MMP sabots straight from their website, for most of my shooting I use a Lee 255-RF dropped from a 6 cavity mold unsized. It shoots great, I do recommend that you try several different sabots. Sometimes there can be a marked difference in accuracy. This last order I made included sabots for a .458 bullet, I was messing around last week and ran some Lee 458-420-RF I think was the mould number through my .452 sizing die and was really impressed with the way it shot, so I'm going to try my RCBS 340 gr in my muzzleloader being that this is what i normally hunt with.

[newton]

This one

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690991/Double-Cavity-Mold-C501-440-RF-

For a little over the cost of 200 sabots you have a setup for as many rounds as you want - notwithstanding that you run out of paper,1 sheet does 40 patches I think, could be wrong, been a long time since I cut last.

I did forget though, I use a felt wad under the boolit. That may or maynot be needed. I had the felt, so I use it. Cant say I have ever tried it without.

[Curlymaple42]

So then you size it with which LEE setup? Links are great!! Thanks!

[Curlymaple42]

This? http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690191/Lube-and-Size-Kit-half01-Diameter-

[Sensai]

My Optima Elite really likes the Lee REAL 320 grain boolits. I just wipe a little bore butter, or whatever I have on hand, on them when I load them. I haven't had any problems with powder or lead fouling. I've used everything from black powder to 777. The Optima Elite likes Blackhorn 209 best. Of course the Elite and the V2 are not exactly the same, but they're pretty close.

[Curlymaple42]

Looks like I'll have to go three directions here. LOL!!! Saboted .452, Paper patched .501, and REAL 320gr. Damn it! This was supposed to make it cheaper, not buy more gear!! who was I fooling...

[725]

From the, "for what it's worth department", I paper patch a ML and the accuracy is wonderful. Have tried various paper types and have settled on plain 'ol copy paper. My barrel is a true .450 and I size to that .450. Just to add stuff to the game, however, I'm going to try and size a few to .451 just to see what happens. Happy experimenting!

[newton]

This? http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/0000690191/Lube-and-Size-Kit-half01-Diameter-

That's the one I got.

[newton]

My Optima Elite really likes the Lee REAL 320 grain boolits. I just wipe a little bore butter, or whatever I have on hand, on them when I load them. I haven't had any problems with powder or lead fouling. I've used everything from black powder to 777. The Optima Elite likes Blackhorn 209 best. Of course the Elite and the V2 are not exactly the same, but they're pretty close.

I could shoot 50 yard 1 hole groups with these all day long.....move out to 100 or more and it would leave me scratching my head where they went.

[OnHoPr]

Looks like I'll have to go three directions here. LOL!!! Saboted .452, Paper patched .501, and REAL 320gr. Damn it! This was supposed to make it cheaper, not buy more gear!! who was I fooling...

Well, you have a bunch of options REALLY. It also depends on what you expect out of the accuracy and what you will be doing with the loads, just shooting or hunting. If after you find a load and you shoot less than a few hundred rounds a year then a lot of the cost is negligible. It also depends on how quick you want a load. It depends on if you are hunting in fields or hardwood ridges or the thick stuff. These newer muzzleloaders can get reeeealll accurate with quite a bit of testing to find the sweet spot load, I'm talking 1MOA. With the right scope and a sweet load with practice you can do 300 yds. But, if you are just sitting in 100 yd or less woods then just about any of them should work for minute of deer.

The sabot with the cast boolit or jacketed can shoot the farthest. You might find better BC for long range shooting with the jacketed. But, after you find a load and shoot less than a 100 rounds a year, not really costly. The sabots are about $8 for 50 with less lead consumption, but with the capabilities of more powder consumption. Much more than a 100 gr of powder and you will probably need to cast your boolits in the 25/75, 33/66, or 50/50 WW/Pb progressive range up to the 150 gr of powder usage. As mentioned above different sabots can play an accuracy roll. MMP's and Harvester's seem to be the general best on the forums overall, but I have shot real tight groups with TC mag express sabots and I have heard of decent grouping with the Knights. @ 100 yds they all should be solid minute of deer. My best all around load is a Lee 44 240 RN cast 33/66 in a Harvester and a 120 gr on PDex Select. Recoil, when you start playing with the 150 gr loads can get a bit pushy. But, if long range is your objective and you just sight in and want to shoot a deer, then what the heck. I wouldn't plink with them though. They have molds specifically for sabots at Accurate molds and probably elsewhere.

Conicals; I believe that yours is a 1 in 28 twist and it will shoot conicals well, but at reduced charges. But, when that big soft hunk of lead hits a deers ribs or from any angle it is pretty deadly. A few of them can get to 200 yd shooting, but that is a lot of testing and practicing. Most are 100 yd ranges and possibly 150 yds. They consume the most lead, but the least powder. 60 to 80 maybe 90 gr loads are the top end for your twist, but speed isn't necessary out of them really. Cast them, put lube on them and shoot them. Molds can range from $20 to $100. The Lee Minnies and Reals kill deer as well as the Lyman Buffalo, TC Maxi Ball & Hunter, and there are other conicals as well from Accurate molds and many more. You may find it better to add a bit of Sn or touch of WW to the Pb to sweeten the accuracy, but that is with a lot of testing. The recoil on these in the 60 to 80 gr range is comfortable. Lubes may play a part in accuracy as well.

PP Boolits; That Lee S&W 500 440 gr is a Big boolit with BIG metplat and HIGH BC, its a thumper. Properly cast and loaded it can do 200 yds. Lead consumption is more, but powder consumption is less. Its recoil with the charges used is comfortable. PPing it is no biggy. It can be very accurate, but BHN is the key as well as tweaking the powder charge in YOUR gun. So, making the alloy just right and finding the powder charge is the main concern basically. Just moderate testing should be able to get it shooting decent with a little research on this site shooting it. There are other boolits as well that can be PPed. The mold and sizer is very affordable and paper is cheap. I don't know if I would want to shoot a thousand rounds a year with it though. It is a hunting load.

PRB; The PBR is the cheapest to shoot. It is very deadly on deer in the short woods scenario. It is also a great plinker and comfortable to shoot mucho mucho many. Ironically it can be the most finicky to shoot well out of a fast twist barrel, but it can be done with lots of patience and testing. If you take 4 different powders, 3 different patches, 3 different balls, 4 or 5 different lubes and test from lets say 80 to 100 gr of powder you can get it to shoot very well even in a fast twist barrel. That's a lot of testing. I have got them to shoot one ragged hole groups @ 50 yds with 100 gr powder charges. So, it can be done. It isn't all that great if your only few days to hunt are windy and deer might be past 75 yds though. But, if shootin more than a few hundred rounds a year at water bottles and cans @ 50 yd they're a blast with 60 gr of powder. The barrel doesn't need to be swabbed every shot as well like the above Boolits SHOULD BE for accuracy. Lee makes a combo mold with the REAL and Ball that is economical.

If you hunting may encompass windy days and ranges pass a 100 yds then the sabot with its higher speeds and the Lee 500 PP along with a couple of the other longer conicals would be your best bet. If your gonna be shooting in the thicker woods like on private property all the time and your shots will be hovering the 100 yd range and below with the woods breaking the wind a bit then any of the loads should be effective once tuned. Some of the short conicals like the 250 gr REAL can be wind sensitive. So, if your getting 3" groups @ 100 yds and just the boiler room of a deer is showing at the end of an alley at 115 yds in the woods and there is the November 13 to 18 mph winds calmed to 12 mph winds at woods ground level some of the projectiles may have more than 6" of wind drift. If you are going to hunt various PLs with different terrains you will have to put that into consideration as well when you might only get one shot for the season.

In summary, the sabot with cast boolit pushed relatively fast, above 1700 fps, would be the EASIEST most effective load to go pass 100 yards in a semi windy condition with negligible cost if shootin less than a couple hundred rounds a year. The longer bigger conical and the PP Lee would be less cost and shouldn't be a whole lot more testing to get to shoot good to the 100 yd mark for even semi windy conditions for deer hunting.

[Curlymaple42]

Thank you! Reality is I will be shooting at the range mostly, but I want the smoke pole for extending my deer season if necessary. Like this year. No deer but another two weeks I could potentially hunt. I also may head down to MD and hunt with my best friend in a couple years. Pretty thick and not long shots on his property. He bought a CVA this year, sighted it in one day with basic pellets and powerbelt type bullets, and dropped two deer over the next three days. So long range was not necessary and tuning loads. This all gives me plenty to contemplate and mess with over the winter. I have tons of lead, pure and WW, so I may start by ordering a couple molds and such and get some boolits cast for when I actually buy the rifle. Yeh, I don't have it yet by the way! LOL! I actually do have some 295gr Powerbelts I got on sale a few years ago and popped the belt off them to load in my .50Beowulf. I just put the belts back on as I suspect I will want to shoot those too in the ML.

[Curlymaple42]

Oh yeh, and the Maine hunting I do is mostly inside 100yds. Down here south, thick woods, up north open hardwoods and thick stuff and occasional long shots, but never seen a deer that far out up there anyways.

[Curlymaple42]

If you have a lead bullet in a sabot, why would the alloy matter much? The boolit doesn't actually touch the barrel right?

[Vann]

Yep, I like them soft. I add a little tin to make the hold together but that's all I worry about.

[OnHoPr]

When you start putting the heavier charges in the boolit will deform on setback. Pure Pb doesn't handle 150 gr loads very well even if it is in a sabot.

[rsrocket1]

When I got my CVA Optima Pro (used), my first loads were the Lee TL452-230-TC in a T/C 50 cal sabot made for 45 cal bullets. Worked up loads using Blackhorn 209. Got decent 3" groups at 100 yards with the spread probably mostly due to gusty winds. Optimized loads using Alliant Black MZ at 70g by volume. I've also tried the Lee 250g REAL bullet and a Shiloh conical minie. The REAL performs better than the minie so far but the 45ACP sabots with BH209 have been the most accurate to date. The downside of BH209 and the sabots is the cost ($30/10 oz for the powder and $0.10/sabot). For hunting, I would use this combo, but for range plinking I'm still playing with and seeking the best combo with the bare cast bullets and Black MZ. Black MZ grains are about as big and variable as kitty litter but even at normal prices, it's half that of BH209 and I picked up a bunch of bottles at half off ($10/#). So at a penny per shot for the powder, it works good enough for me.

[johnson1942]

go to ramshot.com then when their go to their blog section and read the article on how to paperpatch for the inline muzzle loader along with pictures. it pretty well explains how to paperpatch for your gun and get the results you want.

[newton]

When I got my CVA Optima Pro (used), my first loads were the Lee TL452-230-TC in a T/C 50 cal sabot made for 45 cal bullets. Worked up loads using Blackhorn 209. Got decent 3" groups at 100 yards with the spread probably mostly due to gusty winds. Optimized loads using Alliant Black MZ at 70g by volume. I've also tried the Lee 250g REAL bullet and a Shiloh conical minie. The REAL performs better than the minie so far but the 45ACP sabots with BH209 have been the most accurate to date. The downside of BH209 and the sabots is the cost ($30/10 oz for the powder and $0.10/sabot). For hunting, I would use this combo, but for range plinking I'm still playing with and seeking the best combo with the bare cast bullets and Black MZ. Black MZ grains are about as big and variable as kitty litter but even at normal prices, it's half that of BH209 and I picked up a bunch of bottles at half off ($10/#). So at a penny per shot for the powder, it works good enough for me.

I had/have the same idea. My first go around was with the Lee 515 mold. I would size them down to .510", then made a homemade sizer to .504" to bring them down again. They shot fine, just lubed them with alox. Also, thanks to a generous guy(Johnson) I would knurl them up to hold more lube and such.

Anyways, cheap shooting(minus the cost of the lead) and easy enough to make. They were decent as far as accuracy goes, but they sure do kick like a mule. I have the mold and sizing die up for sale now. lol

[Nobade]

go to ramshot.com then when their go to their blog section and read the article on how to paperpatch for the inline muzzle loader along with pictures. it pretty well explains how to paperpatch for your gun and get the results you want.

I saw your article over there, hopefully that will help spread the word about how to really get some performance out of these inline rifles. We have a lot of customers who have bought those new Rem 700 UML rifles and are so happy they can hit things out to 300 yards. I tell them if they'd use bullets patched to bore they could hit things to 1000 yards if they wanted to, but so far nobody has been adventurous enough to take me up on it. I like to use a .492" 500gr. slick in my Ruger 77/50 patched to bore, and it shoots better than I can see with the peep sights. 200M is just one spot of lead in the middle of the hanging steel, and hitting 4 inch discs at that range is a snap. Torso plates at 600M are no big deal either, once I get the sights set. Don't have enough sight travel to go any further, but the rifle certainly could do it if I had the elevation. The thing is, those pistol bullets everybody wants to use in sabots have such a lousy BC that past 200 yards they're falling of really fast. Full diameter rifle bullets won't have nearly the high muzzle velocity, but it doesn't take them long to catch up and pass the little stubby bullets and will hit so much harder at longer range. Just depends on what you want your rifle to do, I suppose.

-Nobade