Cleaning 22 rimfire bores?

[stubbicatt]

I have read elsewhere that it is maybe not such a good idea to clean the bores of 22 rimfire every time you shoot them. The gist of the topic being that the bore needs to build up a layer of lube and fouling before the rifles will shoot to their potential.

It pains me to put a rifle in the safe without having first cleaned it. So I find myself sort of torn here.

If what we are talking about is a difference in accuracy measured in a tenth of a fraction of an inch, I'll go ahead and clean mine, as I sleep better that way.

What are your experiences?

[Forrest r]

I don't worry so much about the bbl itself. I will run a tight patch down the length of the bbl feeling for tight spots & if I find any, I'll take them out. The chamber and specifically the chambers leade is another story. Carbon & fouling build up there and will destroy accuracy and has been proven to cause 1st shot fliers.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t242/forrestr-photo/ptgreamers.jpg (http://s162.photobucket.com/user/forrestr-photo/media/ptgreamers.jpg.html)

The carbon buildup/fouling affects the "c" length and the "d" angle.

With any firearm, you're only as good as your worst shot and in the rimfire arena, 1/10th of an inch is huge.

[LtFrankDrebbin]

Next shot cleans it, don't it? :lol:

If groups go down hill or if it is to be stored for some time then I will clean. High humidity would also warrant regular cleaning and oiling. Other than that I'm not too fussed with the 22LR. Had the same 1955 vintage gun for over 20 years and this approach hasn't killed it.

[GhostHawk]

It is my experience that cleaning the barrel will change Point of Impact, in some cases drastically.

So I will pull a patch with a touch of oil on it through the barrel after exposure to rain, humidity.

My experience says a single oiled patch upsets things the least, maybe a 1-2 inch change, and normally within 10 shots it is back.

Stripped a barrel with Hoppes back when Rem changed the .22lr thunderbolts back in the early 90's. All my friends were talking about leaded up barrels. Next time back at the range POI was 6 inches from where it was and it took over 50 rounds to settle back again.

Proof, nope, don't have none, just my experience. Prove it for yourself.

[robg]

i dont worry too much about the barrel but clean the chamber often

[high standard 40]

I shoot IHMSA handgun silhouette and have fired many thousands of rounds through my guns in the last several years. I never put anything through my barrels except bullets. More 22LR barrels have been ruined by cleaning than by not cleaning. Actions and exterior surfaces get cleaned and oiled but never the bore.

[Doc Highwall]

I shoot a Anschutz 2013 in competition and I shoot at least 10,000 rounds a year between practice and matches and I only clean the barrel twice a year. The rifle gets wiped down and the locking lugs get cleaned and lubed a lot. After cleaning the barrel it can take as many as 20-50 shots to get it to settle down as the bore needs to be condition the same as our cast bullets.

I sometimes will pull a bore snake through the bore if I can feel the rounds chambering with too much resistance, as being a single shot each round is pushed into the chamber as far as I can with my thumb before closing the bolt.

Changing brands of 22Lr. ammo for testing accuracy, that have different kinds of lube also have to condition the bore before they settle down. As we know some are wax based and some are silicone based and the gun barrel has to be free of the old bullet lube before a real comparison of accuracy can be established. Note that no match 22Lr. ammo is copper plated, only wax or silicone base lubes are used. If you want to get the best accuracy out of your 22 don't shoot copper plated bullets then try regular lead bullets with either wax or silicone without removing the copper fouling, the same goes for our cast bullets out of our center fire guns that have shot jacketed bullets.

If it did not rain on the gun getting it wet, I only wipe it off with a oily rag and make sure the locking lugs are clean and lubed.

[Mica_Hiebert]

All cci bullets are lubed with plain parafin wax. Maybe try shoving a wax plug down your barrel after cleaning? I never really scrub out a 22 barrel but some times for giggles will run a dry bore snake from breech to muzzle every 2-5k rounds or so. my poor 22s get rode hard and put away wet... Most of my guns my guns do come to think of it.

[MarkP]

I do the same.


I shoot IHMSA handgun silhouette and have fired many thousands of rounds through my guns in the last several years. I never put anything through my barrels except bullets. More 22LR barrels have been ruined by cleaning than by not cleaning. Actions and exterior surfaces get cleaned and oiled but never the bore.

[georgerkahn]

All .22s are not created equally! Some are simply lead with wax coating for lub, while others are copper coated. I'm not going to write what I've been advised re them, but copper -- if those .22's were/are used -- will build up on rifling. And, I can give testimony to an old (1936) Model 63 Winchester which had so much bullet wax built up it stopped the action from functioning! Imho, all firearms -- regardless of caliber or type -- need regular, meticulous cleaning.
geo

[high standard 40]

To add to my earlier post, I have a Volquartsen barrel on one of my High Standard pistols. It came with a written warning that if a cleaning rod of any kind was used on that barrel, the warranty would be void. Draw your own conclusion. I figure the folks at Volquartsen know a thing or two about 22s. I've had that barrel now for nearly 10 years. It has never been cleaned internally and will shoot perfect scores for me every time when I do my part. It has never had anything but standard velocity ammo used in it.

[stubbicatt]

Thanks fellas. If I get the gist of it right, if I shoot the "high velocity" 22 shorts, with the copper coating, I should clean the barrel, but if I shoot the gallery loads, with paraffin wax coating, cleaning is inadvisable?

Thanks.

[Forrest r]

To add to my earlier post, I have a Volquartsen barrel on one of my High Standard pistols. It came with a written warning that if a cleaning rod of any kind was used on that barrel, the warranty would be void. Draw your own conclusion. I figure the folks at Volquartsen know a thing or two about 22s. I've had that barrel now for nearly 10 years. It has never been cleaned internally and will shoot perfect scores for me every time when I do my part. It has never had anything but standard velocity ammo used in it.

Actually this is what volquartsen has posted on their website.

We recommend a pull through type cleaning kit for all Volquartsen barrels. We always recommend breech to muzzle cleaning. Failure to do so with void any factory warranty.

A link to the volquartsen page that has the answer posted above in the Frequently Asked Questions


https://www.volquartsen.com/page/Help

These types of questions come up all the time.

Hunters with common rifles and walmart bulk pack ammo tend not to clean their bbl's.

The guys competing on nra targets hardest shot is 3" @ 100yds and tend to not be as fussy about their bbl's.

Silhouette shooters have to hit 5" rams @ 100yds.

The guys with $8,000+ custom rigs & $5,000+ cases of ammo doing benchrest using usbr 1/10" bulls @ 50yds tend to clean their bbl's a little more often, namely between cards.

The 2014 nationals.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?
q=22+Benchrest+Targets&form=VQFRVP&first=1#view=detail&mid=1AB742091A5C5BE904EE1AB742091A5C5BE904EE (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=22+Benchrest+Targets&form=VQFRVP&first=1#view=detail&mid=1AB742091A5C5BE904EE1AB742091A5C5BE904EE)

You won't see too many 10-22's there or anschutz's with factory bbl's.

Anyway, these is no right answer. If your firearm/ammo combo is doing everything you want it to do without cleaning, then let sleeping dogs lay. I've always found it interesting that the harder the targets become with rimfires, the more the cleaning rods come out.

[Doc Highwall]

When I clean my bolt action rifles I always use a bore guide.

I have been shooting 22Lr. in competition long enough that I have learned that most of use do not clean the bore that often and are most likely to just pull a bore snake through it once in a while.

In the beginning of April I usually take my bolt completely apart and clean and lube it. I then clean the barrel, including using JB bore paste with a felt bob that expands to apply pressure. I then start practicing for the summer prone shooting and will not clean the rifle again till the fall. I usually shoot 300 to 500 rounds a week if not more for practice weather permitting, and a 40 shot match once a week.

When I practice I shoot two 40 shot matches plus 10 sighters for 50 shots or one box of ammo. Sometimes I will shoot 3 or 4 practice matches in a day, but not so much that I fatigue my self and start to make mistakes.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

[Forrest r]

Nice write-up doc, that's a lot of trigger time. For every gut that says ya another says na.

Don't know if you ever herd of a guy named steve bolter, his latest test:
50,000 rounds of ammo in 1 bbl/action looking/testing for accuracy or lack there or including cleaning. Steve flat out states Clean barrels are more accurate, it's as simple as that

In post #13 in the link provided below.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=586613&highlight=cleaning

What bolter says about cleaning rimfires.

http://www.rrdvegas.com/rimfire-cleaning.html

The only reason I keep bringing up steve bolter is that he has worked directly with anschutz directly for over a decade and is the president of anschutz north america.

[high standard 40]

I think the real truth is that "properly" cleaned barrels are more accurate. There can be no question that the 22 benchrest shooters
have the equipment and the knowledge to squeeze the upmost in accuracy from the 22LR cartridge. They know how to properly clean a rimfire barrel and have the proper tools to do so. On the other hand, most casual shooters don't have this ability. My experience has been the same as stated above by Doc. I learned long ago that after I cleaned a rimfire barrel it sometimes took a full box of cartridges to get the gun settled down and grouping again. The run of the mill shooter who plinks or hunts small game will on average do more harm than good by scrubbing the bore. Even us silhouette shooters see little benefit from cleaning. What Forrest said is true, a "Ram at 100" is not that demanding of a target for a decent gun and ammo combination. But in silhouette I have been required to engage 1.5" targets at 100 yards in order to decide a tied score and my "never cleaned" barrels deliver for me.

Long story short, I believe that excluding serious benchrest type competition where groups are measured in thousandths of an inch, cleaning a 22LR barrel can be of little practical use.

[Doc Highwall]

In this thread post #11 you can see one of my Anschutz rifles. This is my 3 position 4 position rifle set up for prone.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?287742-22-competitive-target-shooting-choice

If you click on the picture twice you will get a larger picture.

[Forrest r]

Nice rifle doc.

It really doesn't matter to me if anyone cleans their rimfires or not. In my post I stated I only clean the leade of the chamber and don't worry about the bbl. Heck I only use a wet patch for that, which is probably wrong, but it keeps the 1st shot fliers down.

If it works for you then it works for me.;-);-);-)

I just want people out there to know what the big boys on the block say about cleaning them.

One of the best lines I've ever read on the subject of cleaning rimfires was over at rimfire central. There was a shooter that always posted in the anschutz section. He was on the army shooting team. Someone asked him if he cleaned the bbl's on his rimfire target rifles. His reply was "I've made a living off of the people who didn't".

[Doc Highwall]

I am posting links to some of the cleaning equipment that I use for cleaning my gun barrels.

I always try to use a bore guide but they are not made for all rifles like falling block single shot rifles.

1: I use a loose fitting patch with a solvent and wet the bore and then let it set a while.
2: I now use a phosphor bronze brush with bore cleaner on it and make 6 complete passes through the bore.
3: I use a tight fitting patch on a jag to push all the crud out the muzzle.
4: I repeat steps 1-3 until the patch comes out clean.
5: I now use something like break cleaner on a patch with a jag to dry the bore.
6: I now will use J-B Bore paste on a felt pellet to scrub the bore taking extra effort near the throat to get the real stubborn fouling out. (J-B Bore paste has garnet in it and garnet is softer then steel, but harder than copper or lead so it will not hurt your barrel)
7: I now will use the jag again with a tight fitting patch soaked with bore cleaner to remove all the J-B Bore paste.
8: I now take a .750" diameter ball bearing with a narrow strip (about 1/4"to 5/16" wide) of 600 grit sand paper and clean the barrel crown making sure that it is perfect.
9: I again will use something like break cleaner on a patch with a jag to dry the bore.
10: I now will use a felt pellet soaked with Miltec-1 to treat the bore.
The bolt is also dissembled and cleaned and lubed.
Just wipe the gun down and start shooting for score.

Equipment used.
http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/patches-mops/cleaning-pellets/weapons-care-system-pellets-prod13839.aspx

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/patches-mops/cleaning-pellets/vfg-three-pellet-adapter-prod25904.aspx

http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleaning-chemicals/patches-mops/cleaning-pellets/vfg-adapter-prod25903.aspx

[Suo Gan]

I have some I have never cleaned. Thousands and thousands of rounds. Sometimes a design isn't prone to liking this habit and they will begin to work improperly. A 10-22 or marlin 60 don't seem to care.

[RG1911]

As has been said, each barrel is different.

With the same lot of Lapua Midas + ammo, the Kidd barrel on my 10/22 started throwing odd flyers after about 200 rounds; maybe a few more. After talking with a couple others at our rimfire matches (out to 225 yards), I decided to clean. We'll see how it does at Sunday's match.

I was told that a rule-of-thumb is that it takes a shot per inch of barrel length to coat the bore with the bullet lube. So I'll need to put 20 rounds through the barrel before the match.

Richard

[Doc Highwall]

The bore must be conditioned with the same ammo / lube type as you are going to shoot.

[saleen322]

I clean my 22 rifles from the breach using a bore guide with a good, 1-piece rod. I don't use brushes as I could not see any difference in accuracy. The rifle shoots better when cleaned. 22 Target pistols will do a little better when cleaned but a dirty pistol is more likely to cause function issues before I really notice the accuracy fall off that much.