Interesting Martini Henry MK III .303 Conversion

[John Boy]

Preface: I know nothing about Martini Henry's except what I data mined about this rifle ...
* Martini Henry MK III converted to .303 British
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III%20Picture_zpskpxwvsez.j pg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III%20Picture_zpskpxwvsez.j pg.html)
http://www.martinihenry.org/index.php?route=product/product&path=61_59&product_id=51
* It's evidenced by the hooked forearm, the thumb depression on the back of the action and dimensions of the rifle. It is NOT a Zule manufactured firearm
* Serial No H 2258 on right side of action with unknown crossed flags inspection mark with "2P" (2nd Proof) stamp next to the serial number...
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/d380391c-4cc9-4540-97d8-11d1bc1108f9_zpsdfheq2ry.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/d380391c-4cc9-4540-97d8-11d1bc1108f9_zpsdfheq2ry.jpg.html)
* Barrel stamp in front of action:
** Liege Proof House and no markings to identify the manufacturing house
** A. SCHRIEVER and underneath BREVETE
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/f1bd5b1e-9782-4d4a-ba06-b94a1ae2613e_zpsezwjlx1u.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/f1bd5b1e-9782-4d4a-ba06-b94a1ae2613e_zpsezwjlx1u.jpg.html)
* CE with V2G underneath on the lever ... ?
Now, here is the confusing mark on the left side of the action ...
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/Styer%201883%20Stamp_zpswduvjswv.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/Styer%201883%20Stamp_zpswduvjswv.jpg.html)
* STYER 1883 ... Styer was a Romanian production house for Peabody Martini's yet nowhere on the rifle is there any stampings indicating that the rifle was produced at STYER in Romania !

Anyway - the price was right (gift) - wood is in decent shape - 0.305 bore shows it's age yet there is remaining rifling. So ordered 303 ammo and a set of dies just to say I shot it and determine the accuracy. The barrel ladder sight is 2000 yds but don't believe the bullet will make the trip with any accuracy ;)

[swamp]

I have a Enfield-Martini carbine 303. It shoots quite well. Haven't shot any cast yet. Just Mil-Surp. Next trip will be trying cast loads that work well in my No. 1.
swamp

[Col4570]

I believe that Martini rifles built in 303 Calibre had a special Breach Block to ensure full support on the Block Face since the wider Cartridge for the 577/450 Round was supported but the 303 round diameter was not within that support.I have seen a couple of 303 martini conversions rifles with a partial circular crack on the face.

[curator]

Most .303 conversions have a dove-tailed metal insert in the breech face to accommodate the smaller firing pin used with the higher pressure .303 british round. Mk111 Martini Enfields made specifically for the .303 british round have a smaller top-groove on the breech-block, and do not have the dove-tailed breech-face conversion. I have two Mk111 Martini Enfields, one "trade pattern" made originally for the .303 british cartridge, and the other a .303 conversion of the Mk111 577-450. Most of the "conversions" were done on Mk111 actions from what I have seen. Look at your breech block and you should be able to determine if it was originally made for the .303 British cartridge or a conversion.

[John Boy]

curator - thanks for this information. Since the STEYR stamp on the receiver is '1883' and the .303 didn't come into being until 1889 ... would believe it is a conversion. I plan to disassemble the rifle to do a chamber cast & parts cleaning ... will know for sure then

[John Boy]

Gents, any 303 reloading data for the MK III using lead bullets? Smokeless or black powder

All I can find is smokeless for 303 using jacket bullets ... that are in the 2000+ fps. I would like to keep the reloads under 2000 fps
Thanks

[swamp]

The Lyman Cast bullet handbooks have it. I checked an older and the latest one.
swamp

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I did some extensive testing on 303 cast boolits with my 1896 Martini Enfield. 28gns 3031 with a 220gn CBE boolit yielded 1740fps. Loads were assembled with no filler and large pistol primers. The boolit comes from Cast Bullet Engineering

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/303CBE220_zpsa6bd00c3.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/303CBE220_zpsa6bd00c3.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/DC303_zpsb890b37f.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/DC303_zpsb890b37f.jpg.html)

[John Boy]

Thanks Philip Sharpe!
I dug out my old standby manual and yes, a 155gr Pb recipe for two 303 Lee molds I have in 155gr. Cast up some in Bhn15.4 alloy and loaded 10 each
* Guide to Complete Reloading, 1937 - revised 1988
* 155gr Pb (Alox lube) - 10gr Unique - 1350 fps - 16,100 psi -COL 3.08 and they drop nicely in the chamber
* Also a 125gr Pb recipe - 10gr Unique - 1500 fps but don't have a 125gr mold
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/155gr%20Bullet%20Reloads_zpsiscrdwcm.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/155gr%20Bullet%20Reloads_zpsiscrdwcm.jpg.html)
And thanks Gents for the other load sources

[John Taylor]

The 303 conversions on Martinis were designed to be used with black powder or Cordite, not modern smokeless factory loads. Please keep the pressures down.

[Boz330]

Thanks Philip Sharpe!
I dug out my old standby manual and yes, a 155gr Pb recipe for two 303 Lee molds I have in 155gr. Cast up some in Bhn15.4 alloy and loaded 10 each
* Guide to Complete Reloading, 1937 - revised 1988
* 155gr Pb (Alox lube) - 10gr Unique - 1350 fps - 16,100 psi -COL 3.08 and they drop nicely in the chamber
* Also a 125gr Pb recipe - 10gr Unique - 1500 fps but don't have a 125gr mold
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/155gr%20Bullet%20Reloads_zpsiscrdwcm.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Martini%20Henry%20MK%20III/155gr%20Bullet%20Reloads_zpsiscrdwcm.jpg.html)
And thanks Gents for the other load sources


18gr of 4759 works well if you can find some. Many of those were fired with Cordite that erodes the bore pretty bad. You may need to get a larger than normal cast boolit to get any accuracy.


Bob

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If Steyr wants to move to Romania, I won't stand in its way. It is a city in Austria, home at the stated date of the Oesterreichische (aka Österreichische) Waffenfabriks Gesellschaft Steyr. They were a highly reputed firm, extremely large in their day, with Ferdinand von Mannlicher as their chief designer. They certainly made Martinis for Romania, and perhaps also for civilian or other purchasers. If your Martini is in good condition, it is likely to be as well made as any other.

I remember hearing that there were some minor variations from the standard Martini-Henry, for which it seem Schriever just might be the patent holder. "Breveté" is French for patented. More likely Schriever did the conversion, though, or a barrel taken from a firearm of his was used. I never heard of the conversion being done for the Romanian military. As has been said, the rifle couldn't have been made as a .303 in 1883, and I think I can make out a Belgian proofmark above his name. Auguste Schriever was a Belgian gunmaker who appears to have specified in conversion of military rifles, and with Romania adopting a very progressive 6.5x53R Mannlicher in 1893, it wasn't long before their Martinis would have reached the surplus market.

Assuming that the breechblock and firing-pin are all right, I would have no hesitation in using this rifle with loads up to British military standard. If the pin tip is large but fits its hole closely (the latter being at least as important in my opinion), start with modest loads and see what the primers look like. It should be an excellent rifle with a fast lock time, and will have or can be given a better trigger pull than most military weapons.

It is worth checking the headspace, in case some owner has swapped barrels by the light of nature. If you do remove the barrel you might check whether the thread is standard for the Martini-Henry (and Lee-Enfield) at 1in. diameter and 14 per inch pitch. Some Belgian Martinis are, some aren't, and I don't know about Steyr's. If it is a metric thread it increases the likelihood of a professional conversion.

The first of these URLs is on proofmarks, and the second on Auguste Schriever. If you speak French it might be better to go back to www.littlegun.be (http://www.littlegun.be) , since you will probably find it easier than Alain's English. But it is about the best sight I have found on Belgian firearms.


http://www.nramuseum.com/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20s/a%20schriever%20auguste%20and%20co%20gb.htm