Another 650 Question

[Hardcast]

The Dillon catalog lists the 650 production rate as:

cyclic rate 1000 per hour ( with case feeder)
1 hour production rate 800

Are these figures realistic, or just the maximum if nothing goes wrong and the stars are aligned just right?

[bnelson06]

Everything would have to be perfect with a sprinkle of fairy dust. Filling primer tubes, powder adjusting g etc take time. I'd put it mor at 600 hr if you have your ducks in a row and are being safe. On that note I love my 650!

[Hardcast]

One can buy extra primer tubes and have them filled and waiting on a stand or rack. And once the powder measure is adjusted for the load you want, it should not have to be re-adjusted unless you change your powder charge or powder type, right? I have been reading about the 650 and one of the issues is spilling powder out of the case in the shell plate as it rotates to the next station. Once that bug is worked out, the 650 should rock-n-roll, unless it's problematic, like my Projector. I realize that there can be and sometimes are problems with all progressive loaders, but it seem that the 650 is very popular and I don't read as many complaints about it as I do the Lock-N-Load AP. I bought an RCBS Green Machine when they first came out in the late 1970s, or early 1980s, don't remember what year. That was major mistake on my part. Don't want to go through that nightmare again. Thanks for the reply.

[stranded1980]

800 pistol rounds an hour is possible on a Dillon 650, if you already have all of your settings adjusted, AND you have 7 to 8 primer tubes already filled.

I actually just hit the 800 rounds in one hour a couple of weeks ago. I had filled up my 10 extra primer tubes the night before I reloaded. The next day, I started a timer and made it completely through 8 tubes of 100 primers just berfore the 1 hour mark loading 40 S&W.


I actually owned a Hornady LNL AP prior to getting the Dillon 650. I was one of the those individuals that you read about having constant problems with either the primer pick-up shuttle, or the pawl adjustments. Could never get one or the other to stay in perfect adjustment for more than 200 rounds, and finally declared it unreliable. If not for either of those problems, I would still be using it. I really loved the LNL die bushings, and the opportunity to feed cases with my left hand, while right hand stayed on the handle.


My Dillon 650, once adjusted, stays adjusted! Yes, it has more parts, and caliber adjustments cost more, but the sucker just plain runs. It should be noted, the casefeeder is a real must with this one.


Back to your original question, if you include picking up primers, than "No", 800 an hour is going to be a stretch. If you preload the primers, 700 to 800 pistol cartridges is not difficult at a pretty good pace.

[Hardcast]

Thanks, I'm happy to read this. Very seldom have I run through a whole tube of primers on my Projector without some type of stoppage. Mostly primer feed malfunctions, although there have been other problems also. I had so much trouble with the Hornady powder measure I replaced it with an RCBS Uniflow. Now that looks funny with a green powder measure on a red loader, but no more powder problem with the Projector. The primer feed design though is an almost continuous problem that I can't fix. I guess that's why Im looking at the blue products.

[stranded1980]

I'm sure you've seen youtube vid's of the Dillon 650 priming system. It has a funky wheel system, that turns whether there's a case there or not. If there's not a case, the primer slides down a ramp.


There is 2 majors minus's to this system, but 1 really big plus. The first minus is that you now have one more primer you need to reload back in the tube. The other minus is that the way the ramp is designed, it's like a ski jumping ramp, and the primer will sometimes fly off it as such. There is a user here on this board that created a fix for this (I still need to buy one from him).


Now for the major plus of this system: if you hear or see a primer slip down, that lets you know you missed a primer! With the addition of Dillon's low primer audible warning system (which comes standard with the press); no more surprises when you do your quality control checks after everything is reloaded. That was one of my big pet peeves about the Hornady; I once had a nice Akro container full of cartridges, and a whole bunch were missing primers, because I was too focused on staring down the cases looking for powder, instead of glancing to making sure the primer shuttle was working (from either no primers, or just out of adjustment).


I also own a Dillon 550 and have never had a problem with that method of primer feed either, although I have read cases of some people having problems.

[Hardcast]

Thanks. That is good information about the 650 priming system. I had read that it uses a wheel, but did not know those other details.

[6bg6ga]

With the bullet dropper and home made case collator I average 16 completed rounds a minute.

[Hardcast]

With the bullet dropper and home made case collator I average 16 completed rounds a minute.

That calculates to 960 per hour. That is awesome! What bullet dropper do you have?

[onefunzr2]

I believe you have to take Dillon's completed round statement with a grain of salt. They list the semi-auto RL550b where you push a star wheel from one station to the next as quicker than the fully auto Square Deal B press. I have no idea how they came up with their figures. But they have been the same for at least 15 years.

[EddieNFL]

I've timed myself at 17 rounds for one minute on several occasions, but can't sustain that rate. Using an RF100 I can average 600 rounds per hour.

[VHoward]

The XL650 comes standard with the case feeder. The optional part is the case collator. That is extra ($219.95). That being said, I would also buy the collator to go with your XL650. Otherwise, you have to stop every so often and refill the tube with cases. I have an XL650 and do not regret spending the extra money. And a lifetime warranty that goes with the machine and doesn't stay with the original purchaser. So if you happen upon a good deal on a used XL650, anything that needs to be replaced will be replaced free of charge to you.

[David2011]

Although I don't believe I've ever run my 650 for a solid hour I regularly crank out 300 rounds of .40 S&W in 20 minutes. That pace would be tiring for an entire hour and would require both lots of boolits and a dozen pre-loaded primer tubes. It is normally set up to load .40 but at times is pressed into service to trim and load .223. I make sure I have several hundred .40s already loaded before converting calibers. I have a couple of other caliber conversions for it but usually load them on the 550 because setup for just a couple hundred rounds is much easier on the 550.

Casting for the 650 is almost a full time job as fast as it can make ammo.

David

[jeepyj]

Not that I count every time but with a glance at the clock each hunderd primers gives me my indicator. Without doing anything ahead I average 7-9 boolits a minute. This it using a F/A vibraprime, and a Lee four tube case collator that I re-rigged so each time I can load fifty rounds of 38 spl. I like production but I don't push To obtain much more than that but a 650 will definitely rip if one wants it. For me it's plenty fast enough to keep me killing every tin can and hunk of steel at the range. If your on the fence about a 650 I personally don't think you would be disappointed.
Jeepyj

[bnelson06]

So why doesn't anyone count reloading the tubes as time? Part of the process that must be done.

[dragon813gt]

So why doesn't anyone count reloading the tubes as time? Part of the process that must be done.

Because it decreases their production rate. It doesn't matter if you fill them a month in advance. You have to add the time to fill them to the time you're operating the press to get a true production rate. Even if someone else fills them for you the time needs to be accounted for.

[jeepyj]

So why doesn't anyone count reloading the tubes as time? Part of the process that must be done.
The numbers I quoted are with filling primer tubes. I do believe one should count all the steps required to get somewhat accurate number that being said I don't factor in the cleaning of the brass.
jeepyj

[bnelson06]

And 9 a minute is in the right range. It can be done faster but

[jmorris]

100 rounds on one of my 650's in under 4 minutes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl63cR9Y_Y0

[jmorris]

How how many you can do in an hour depends on how you top the machine back off. Dillon's primer feeder lets you fill tubes while your loading but the vibraprime costs a lot less and is still fast enough to get you into the 1100/hr area.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WTZ-_v6Mks

[offroader69]

I never believed that In the seven years I have been using my 650 I would have the ability to reload the maximum quoted by Dillon. Claims by Dillon just like the mileage claim by auto manufacturers is a bunch of Bull****.

[lefty o]

me and my brother working together have done over 1000 an hr on our 650. dillons claims are as to what the machine is capable of, not necessarily what your capable of running it at. 1000rnds an hr, you are working hard, figure a comfortable 700-800rnds an hr. the machine will run as fast as you can set a bullet and pull the handle, its the person running it that governs the pace.

[6bg6ga]

That calculates to 960 per hour. That is awesome! What bullet dropper do you have?I have several RCBS droppers and one Mr.Bulletfeeder. The key to production is to have a number of bullet tubes and primer tubes at the ready to refill as the need arises.

[jmorris]

The approximately 1100/hr in #19 and 20 includes the handling of cases, bullets and primers.

Feeders themselves don't really save a lot of time, it is the collators that make the difference.

[rockrat]

I figure on about 350-400 per hour. Arm gets tired. Not as young as I used to be.

[Dragonheart]

You can judge for yourself. I added a bullet feeder for under $50 and you can easily do the same.
https://youtu.be/izBwqt-1l-c

[onefunzr2]

Hard to notice but I don't think any of these 'how many finished rounds can I make per hour' videos were loading cast boolits.

[jmorris]

Shame on me, your right. How about 100 plated bullets and 100 cast bullets loaded in under 5 min.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-RxMulCqbQ

The near machine is my 45 acp 1050 with my cast and coated 230s.

You can also see them pooping out the back in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V7vSEAqkZw

[Dragonheart]

Hard to notice but I don't think any of these 'how many finished rounds can I make per hour' videos were loading cast boolits.

Actually, cast bullets that have been powder coated, lubed bullets won't feed. Just another reason to Powder Coat.