rcbs or lyman

[quickshot]

Help me spend my tax refund wisely guys! I am looking for a new measure and scale and I think that I am going to go digital. I reload all cast for 5 different rifle calibers right now (8x57/.223/.308/7.5 swiss/7.62x54r) with plans to add a couple more to the list here soon. My casting/loading/shooting time is very little seeing as my life is in a steady state of controlled chaos. I am a tinkerer and I am always chasing that perfect powder/boolit combo. (What can I say I enjoy a good challenge). I currently use a lyman 55/lee Pro auto disk /Frankfurt arsenal for load dev. but its really slow for me. (1ish hour to load 50 or so rounds when in development mode) I need a faster way to do my load development. Powders on hand right now are 2400/BD/BE/old Unique/296 with more to come as I progress. Out of the chargemaster and the 1200 dps3 what is the preferred combo? I welcome all user opinions/experiences from all of those who have first hand experience with these units. (Please no "well my friends buddies cousins twice removed by marriage next door neighbors dogs veterinarian said that....") Well lets have it fellas! whatcha think?

[beagle]

I guess I'm old fashioned and after venturing into the realm of E-scales, I went back to two old beam scales.

I had a RCBS and it was a great scale but I just never trusted it. Guess that's from being old and not trusting newfangled stuff. It was great for weighing and sorting bullets.

At that time, RCBS scales were made by Pact and the one glitch I did have with it was cleared by a techie over the phone.

Based on my limited use and that of my shooting partner who had a Lyman, I'd opt for the RCBS. You can't go wrong on "Green"./beagle

[Scrounger]

Me too, Beagle. About 10 years ago I bought a Pact and tried it. Phantom air currents and goblins kept the needle moving and made me nervous, so I went back to my old RCBS scale and stayed there. I found the Pact in its box the other day. I probably ought to see if it still works and sell the dang thing.

[carpetman]

When it comes to powder charges,somehow I am more concerned with accuracy than I am speed. That shows how old fashioned I am. Don't even have to tell you I don't have a cell phone. I think my old, slow, antique looking when new Belding & Mull powder measure accomplishes my goal of accuracy. I hear about other measures not metering one sort or the other of powder---never had that problem with my Belding & Mull. I hear about under charges and overcharges. With my Belding & Mull you'll see there is an undercharge---the charging tube wont be full. Overcharge---can't happen unless you can stack powder--even if you could you'd see that too. Did I tell you it's slow? Did I tell you it is reliable?

[1hole]

"Me too, Beagle." And Scronger. And Carpetman.

Been reloading with a Redding bench measure and Ohaus beam scale since '65, was an electronics instrument tech from '60 to "93. Just don't trust the new digitals - made a pretty good a living for a long time off fixing/calibrating that kind of stuff. Don't see any problem a digital dispenser or scale would solve, and that at great cost.

But, to each his own.

[Huntducks]

bought a digital about 3 years ago, got tired of recaliberating it all the time and any breeze moves the thing like jello, my RCBS 10-10 works great along with a Redding PM. all I use the digital for now is weighting cases and bullets

[bullshot]

I agree on the electronic scales having problems with air currents(get up to get something and the scale takes off). The electronics are good for weighing boolits. Give me a mechanical scale for weighing powder.

[runfiverun]

dps 1200 i just close the door and put a box on the heater vent
i just got tired of weighing every charge.
i set up a dump and drop into pan and push button.
i seat my bullet and the next charge is ready.

[Scrounger]

I quit weighing every charge about 5 minutes after I started reloading. I set the powder measure, weigh 5 or 6 charges; if they are within a tenth or two, I start loading. Maybe every 20 rounds or so I'll check it again by weighing one charge. There was an article in a gun mag 30 or 40 years ago about the need for having charges so exactingly correct. He found that on charge weights of 30 grains or less, accuracy to one-half grain or less showed velocities with no more variation than weighed charges, nor was there any improvement in accuracy. Above 30 grain charge weights, his standard was 1 grain max variance. I've run the same test myself a couple of times and I agree with him. For other reasons, pride, satisfaction, etc, we want everything to be as accurate as possible, given the restraints of practicality and all, but I don't think I'll ever get my panties in a wad enough to weigh every charge, experience has proven it unnecessary.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Worked as an electronics's technician for 26 years. Part of those years I worked as a validation technician in the medical device industry and had a great deal of experience with medical grade scales. What I learned about those scales and the requirements for accuracy, reliability, dependability, precision and lack of drift taught me that most electronic scales made for the reloading industry are just too low priced to buy you anything that's worth having in the way of day to day functionality.

I own and use a mechanical beam balance scale. What I learned about Ohaus in the medical scale industry makes me prefer the scales they make now.

Just an opinion,

Dave

[schutzen]

I have an RCBS Chargemaster 1500 Combo Scale/Dispenser and I am well pleased with it. I have it under a book shelf on my bench and have had no problems with errant wind currents. At first I double checked charges with an RCBS 505, but it was always on the money. I'm spoiled and will not go back to a balance beam. The only problem is the "Big Green" knows they have a very good unit and now want "very big green" for it. $430 in the 2008 RCBS Catalog. Still if mine goes out tonight, I will probably order another in the morning.

[NVcurmudgeon]

I use an RCBS scale that must be at least 35 years old for all weighing of powder charges, er check weighing what the RCBS Uniflow measure is throwing, and wouldn't have it any other way. OTOH I have a reliable early PACT electronic scale which is too sensitive for me to have the patience to weigh powder on, but is very valuable for weigh sorting cast boolits. the PACT is used when I want to put together some super match loads or boolits for load development. I think I have the best of both worlds.

[454PB]

I have a Pact digital and a Lyman DPS 1200. Both are seldom used, for the same reasons already stated. The 1200 DPS needs a 30 minute warm up, and is time consuming to set up. The Pact is temperature sensitive, and I do my loading in a shop that is usually warming up as I use it.

I like the 1200 DPS for loading large magnum rifle cases, but it takes a long time to meter out 75 grains of powder. However, the digital scale is much more stable than the Pact.

I guess I'd have to lump them in with lead hardness testers and thermometers.....fun and interesting when you first get them, but they lose their luster fast.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Quickshot,

After thinking about it and thinking what cartirdges you have, I suddenly realized you might want to consider what doing what I do for load development. I use a Lee Classic Turret for my load development and have basically used it for all the calibers you're reloading for. What I've found is that due to it's design, it works as well as any single stage from an accuracy standpoint. For speed, it's significantly faster, because I can quickly seat a primer, charge the case and seat a bullet.

Using this press had sped my load development up to where I can load 20 cartridges, change the powder charge and load 20 more in a matter of a minutes. The savings is in the primer seating, auto-advance and being able to minimize how many times I handle each case. Makes a huge difference in time.

Just another way to come at the problem,

Dave

[Bret4207]

I'm still happy with my mechanical scales, but the digitals sure look cool. As for measures a Redding BR-30, Lyman 55, and a B+M all work fine, but I like the B+M and Redding much more than the Lyman. Never could get those 3 sliders figured out.

[ihuntbuck]

i have a rcbs 1500 combo works great $254 natchez i havent had any problems with lights or wind. i keeps up with me when loading so it is my vavorite loading partner. would recomend one to anybody...

[Wicky]

I have been using the Lyman 1200 DPS does a good job and is reasonbly quick. The 30 minute warmup is the biggest pain. It has a cover over the powder dispenser and stops varying weights from errant breezes like a beam scale. It is fast and a couple of button pushes changes weights.
The downside other than the warm up time is changing powders but I work on the fact that the time I saved throwing the charges makes up for the time it takes to empty the hopper.
And they cost a bit more than a beam scale!
I would recommend one to anybody especially when you do volume reloading on a single stage press!

[cobbmtmac]

quickshot,

I echo "schutzen" & "ihuntbuck". My RCBS 1500 combo sure works fine for me. Where I use it, the wind is not a issue. Having said that, one of my mentors is "NVcurmudgeon" and I truely trust his judement. Also, I have high respect for Lyman as I have equipment from both.

The more I say the more I realize that I sound like a Politician, God that's scary.

:coffee:

[MT Gianni]

I got an upgrade kit for my LY 1200 and it runs out powders faster and makes changing powders a lot easier. I often skip the warm up time when weighing bullets and have found little or no difference in doing so.[less than .02 gr of wc820, which is as fine grained powder as we will ever see] Gianni

[BruceB]

Being a Luddite ol' fart can be fun sometimes, but I do occasionally find value in modern "improvements".

I keep an RCBS/Ohaus 10-10 beam scale very handy, but I doubt that I've used it in the last five years. ALL my weighing needs are served by my PACT digital.

I NEVER turn it off, hence warm-up time is not a factor. It's calibrated every time I get ready to load anything, which takes just a matter of a minute or so.

I don't worry about check-weighing very much, either. When the RCBS measure is set to deliver the desired charge, I LOCK it with a 6" pipe-wrench or slip-joint pliers...it does NOT change its setting! The knurling on the locking ring has long-since disappeared due to this treatment, but the charges don't vary much! I simply make sure the powder level doesn't get too low, and everything is cool.

When using the Dillon 550 with small charges, I throw ten charges at a time in the scale pan and weigh the whole mess. This quickly gives me an accurate average weight, and I adjust until it's correct (ten 4.5-grain charges SHOULD weigh 45 grains total, for example). Averaging in this way essentially eliminates the bothersome task of chasing "tenths" all over the place when setting the measure, and gives results which are amply consistent. The Dillon powder measure is not as easy to lock as a Uniflow, so I mark the top flat of the adjusting bolt with a dry-erase colored marker when the measure is set to deliver the desired charge. Keeping an eye on the colored flat is easy and part of my routine.

My experience with the auto-measuring electronic scales is limited, but so far I've found that they're not fast enough for my methods in most cases.

Note that I don't load "maximum" charges with the above methods. In fact, I don't load maximum charges AT ALL, having long-since discovered that they're just not necessary.

[MtGun44]

I didn't trust the affordable electronic scales years ago, stuck with my
RCBS 5-10. A friend turned me on to Denver Instruments, and after using
his for a long time, off and on, I discussed them with their sales manager.
She convinced me that a professional lab grade scale would not have the
issues that I worried about with the affordable 'reloader' units. I paid about $450
about 8 yrs ago and have been extremely happy with my Denver Instruments
scale. It holds calibration extremely well, takes about 2-3 minutes to be
dead stable, weighs exactly the same no matter where you put the item
on the ~6" diameter pan.

I'm normally a cheapskate, but here is one time that I am glad that I
splurged on quality.

http://www.denverinstrumentusa.com/closeout/closeout2.php?catID=APX

Here is a deal on a closeout pro quality lab unit for $477, with an accuracy
of 0.015 grains (.001 gram), which is far more accurate than typical
reloading needs, but sure doesn't hurt. Many of their units are well over
$1000, and are US-made, very high quality, designed to operate in a lab use
environment - 8 hrs a day, year in and year out for decades.

I have no connection to Denver Instruments except as a very satisfied
customer.


Bill