Need Help w/Hoch Moulds

[Shawrco]

Have two Hoch nose pour moulds, one new 40 cal bpcr fm Midway that casts 375 gr and one used 45 cal that cast 420 gr. First casting session produced abysmal results. Before starting scrubbed both moulds with Bon-Ami/toothbrush, sprayed with brake cleaner and coated with Midway mould release. Got both up to temp and then tried to cast in tandem but gave that up. 40 cal did the best but bases were out of round. The 45 cal acted like it had oil still on it or something, alloy ran off sprue cutter and cavity wouldn't fill up. I was using Rowell ladle, but switched to Lyman ladle with spout that fit into sprue hole. Never got any decent boolits.

So, took everything back apart, cleaned again, made sure vent lines were clear, smoked the cavities and used sprue plate lube only. This time got the 45 going first, liked to be run hot (frosty bullets ~ 675-700 deg, 20:1 alloy). I didn't try the Rowell ladle this time - stayed with the Lyman since it had given best results in prior attempt. Bases STILL not rounding out. Ran the 40 cal at same temp, but boolits weren't frosty. Continued using Lyman ladle that fit the sprue hole, but found that I had to hold the ladle firmly up against the hole for a few extra seconds, then release pressure a little so that alloy flowed off the sprue plate. Same problem as 45 mould, bases not filling out completely.

This is noticeable on one side or the other - have good fill out on one half and the other has is a noticeable out of round spot.

Not sure what's causing this as this is my first experience w/nose pour moulds. I don't know if it helped any, but since I was having trouble with getting the alloy to go in the hole and fill the cavity, I broke the top edges of both moulds under the top sprue plate to help venting. Do I need to do the same thing on the bottom edges? Or, is the alloy not getting in fast enough? Or what?

The weight variance on the 45 was quite large, about a 4 grain spread, but the 40 cal did very well, +/- .75 grain or so. Temp stayed pretty constant between 675-700 deg. I use a big cast iron dutch oven on a propane "camp" stove arrangement and one of Bill Ferguson's thermometers.

Thanks in advance.

[JerryW]

I use a $10.00 Wal-Mart hot plate with a 1/2" thick piece of aluminum with a couple of holes drilled partway through for the nuts on the bottom of the mould to set down in. Turn it about 1/2 way up about 45 minutes before casting. I cast about 775 to 800 degrees. The bottom plate has to be up to temp or elst. I have two of them a 25 and a 32 caliber. Hope this helps. JerryW

[calaloo]

I have a Hoch mould in .32 cal. It is hard to get good bases with mine also. I have found that the mould does a better job when run hot . I also pour a ladle full of lead over the bottom plate every few boolits. I'm sure you will get good boolits with your mould if you keep at it.

[Shawrco]

I might add that getting the boolits to drop from the new 40 cal mould was the dickens! Had to whack the handles repeatedly to get them to fall out. I hope this will improve as the mould breaks in. I may try the release agent again or re-smoke the cavity.

Based on the two responses re: need to run the Hoch moulds hot, looks like I may need to run the temp up a little more, and since they need to stay hot, tandem casting with both moulds at once seems out of the picture unless I get some kind of hot plate to keep the bottoms warm. Usually one needs a wet sponge to keep most moulds from getting TOO hot! I guess that's the price you pay for all that extra swinging metal on the Hoch-designed moulds.

What's the conventional wisdom on how hot 20:1 alloy can be heated?

Thanks for the responses so far... I have some things to try in the next session.

[e15cap]

I cast 30-1 and run the temp to 775-800. Hoch is a big chunk of steel and needs to be hot to work. Best Roger

[Calamity Jake]

Yap like Jerry said, my 365gr 38-55 Hoch nose pour has to be ran real hot and the bottom plate even hotter to get a good fill.

[hyoder]

JerryW is right on - I have a 375 adj. Paper Patch and a 458 mold. Both like to be run hot.
Slow down a little and see if the frost goes away.

[cuzinbruce]

One thing I found helpful was to drill out the opening in my Lyman dipper. Harrison's NRA book on bullet casting was the inspiration for this. Tried it and it seemed to help quite a bit with rifle bullets, .30 cal 200 grain and Lyman 358218 250 grain. Just clamped it in a vise and opened it up a size or two with a drill.
Good Luck,
Bruce

[Shawrco]

I use a $10.00 Wal-Mart hot plate with a 1/2" thick piece of aluminum with a couple of holes drilled partway through for the nuts on the bottom of the mould to set down in. Turn it about 1/2 way up about 45 minutes before casting. I cast about 775 to 800 degrees. The bottom plate has to be up to temp or elst. Hope this helps. JerryW

Is your hot plate the coil style or is it a flat plate? I stopped by WalMart last evening with the wife and the only hot plate they had in stock at the time was a GE with a solid flat plate... $17.00. I don't want to spend too much doncha' know!:) I'm assuming your 1/2" alum plate with the holes is a separate piece sitting on top of the hot plate...

[McLintock]

I'm with the run 'em hot group, I try to stay at 800 degrees. Ran a Hoch 315 gr 38-55 and a Paul Jones 300 gr 38-55 in tandem with 20-1 just a couple weeks ago for about 600 bullets and they all turned out good. Took a long time to get the Hoch up to operating temp though, much longer than the PJ or my Steve Brooks Moulds, even after pre heating on a hot plate.
McLintock

[runfiverun]

if i pour too slowly into mine i have base problems pour and give good messy sprue
if you see it suck in drop that boolit back into the pot its light.

[Shawrco]

Thanks for all the suggestions... after drilling out the spout on the ladle, I got out into the shop and fired up the pot. Based on what everyone said, I set the temp at about 780 deg and got to it. Don't have the hot plate yet, but this mould gets going pretty quickly, esp w/the temp up that high. When they are right, the bases look REAL good. This mould throws a very consistent weight boolit too. Thanks again.