Converting a Ruger .22WMR 'Single Six' to .25ACP/6.35x28.6mmSR Cartridges.

[Chev. William]

On November 25th I started the Process of converting A Ruger .22WMR 'Single Six' Revolver to chamber and fire .25ACP and 6.35x28.6mmSR Cartridges.

I already had a 'replacement 8-Shot .22WMR Cylinder' (purchased from Numerich Arms) reamed and chambered in .25ACP to see if it was Feasible. The .25ACP is .276" body diameter compared to .22 WMR's .242" body diameter.
It turned out the "Ruger" Rim Rebate is large enough to fit both a .25ACP rim at .304" and a 6.35x28.6mmSR rim at .314".
The cylinder measures 1.405" in length at the Chamber center Line, from 'Breech face to front of Cylinder Face, ignoring the Ratchet and front 'bush' extensions.

On the 25th I completed Purchase Arrangements (in California) for a Ruger .22 Caliber Single Six fitted with a roughly 6" plus barrel, Beginning the 10 day Waiting Period for delivery.
I also Dropped off a 'horded' Lothar Walther ".25ACP/6.35 Browning" C-M Barrel blank about 1.1 inches in diameter and 23.6 inches in length, having a one turn in 9.4 inch twist rate 6 groove rifling. "American Gun Works" in Glendale, CA is doing the conversion work. The Ordered Barrel will be 10-5/8 inch long. forcing cone to muzzle so the 'overall SAAMI length is about 12 inches, when the Cylinder length is included.
Also I ordered a Second Cylinder from Numerich Arms, for reaming to 6.35x28.6mmSR chamber Dimensions and eventual fitting as an interchangeable Cylinder in this Project Revolver.

During the ten day waiting period my gunsmith intends to cut a 12 inch 'Blank' from my LW Blank; then begin the Contour turning between Centers to reduce the 1.1 inch to near final diameters. As he has on hand a "Take off" Ruger Barrel, he can turn the Barrel blank to near final Tenon dimensions also.

Work that will need to wait until the Revolver is Delivered to me includes:
- Removal of Existing .22 Cal. barrel.
- Dismounting of Barrel mounted front sight for transfer to my New barrel.
- Dismounting of the unloading rod, housing and mechanism to fit to my new barrel.
- Fitting and timing a new Pawl to index the 8-shot Cylinders.
- Fitting Both cylinders to the Action.
- Fitting the New Barrel to the action.
- Installing The front sight on the New Barrel.
- Other Miscellaneous finishing work.

Eventually I will have a rather Unique Revolver, for both 'plinking' and 'Target' shooting, in two Cartridges of little General use in Revolvers.

This will go with some other "unique" firearms:
- A Stevens Favorite converted to Center Fire and fitted with a Stevens ".25 Stevens" Barrel which can chamber both of the cartridges in plan.
- A Stevens Model 44 Converted to Center fire and having both a Stevens "25.R.F." Barrel with chamber reamed to ".250ALRM" and a Stainless Steel ".32 Long Colt" barrel.
- An Iver Johnson Revolver in .32 Long Colt (also being reworked by AGW).

:bigsmyl2::swagemine:(Cartridge Cases That is.)



Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Outpost75]

I look forward to your progress reports. I very much enjoy reading your musings and aside from my interests being more in the .32 calibers, our objectives share some commonality.

[Chev. William]

Thanks for the Support, I am "playing" in 'low end Cartridge sizes' mostly for enjoyment in my 'Retirement' as I can do it at short Ranges and at relatively low costs.

.32 Extra Long and the Similar 'shorter Case Lengths' are also within my Interest and 'pocket book' at least as far as Stevens Rifles of 'Shooter' value rather than 'Collector' value.
My current Shooting Range is about 100 Yards, due to age and disabilities.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[skeettx]

Any issue in converting from rimfire to centerfire?

[Chev. William]

According to Willie Clark, the Gunsmith in charge of this project, no; just a new Bushing and firing pin when the Time is right (Drat the California Ten day Waiting period).

Just for Information:
The LW barrel was bought last year at about $200.00 including shipping.
The Cylinder and Hand from Numerich arms for about $165.00 including shipping.
The donor revolver is costing $389.23 through American Gun Works.
Case Reforming tools have added about $200.00 so far to my Tool Inventory costs.
Cases are running about $80 per 1000 Once Fired 5.7x28mm, including shipping.
Primers so far are WSP, Powder so far is Bullseye from a one pound Canister.
Charges are running less than 2 grains so far so that 7000 grain canister is going to go a long way.
Bullets are either Cast Lead or Jacketed, some Resized to .250" diameter, some already at .250"-.251" diameters.

All in all, so far an inexpensive Experimental project; just what my 'Retirement' likes.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Nobade]

Watching this with great interest.

-Nobade

[Wolfer]

^ me too!

[SSGOldfart]

Same here,this would be a fun project:popcorn:

[taco650]

Don't forget about the pics Chev. Some of us need to see what you've got going LOL!

[meister mash]

I wonder if a 6 shot model could be reamed for 5.7 x 28.

[Chev. William]

Thinking:
The Rim rebate in The Cylinder is probably about .314" so IF that would give enough Web, both Between Chambers AND between Chamber and Cylinder OD, to Support the 50,000psi MAP + roughly 18 percent upper limit range of Commercial Cartridge Loading compared to the approximately 25,000psi MAP of the .22WMR Cartridge.

The .22WMR is listed as having a .242" case body diameter and rim diameter of .294" and the Compatible .22WRF has a listed body diameter of .243" and a rim diameter of.295": my 'reproduction cylinder has Rim rebates of .315" measured with a Dial Caliper. The web between Rim rebate and Cylinder OD measures .080" and the web between Rebates measures about .057" so someone will nee dto do the Math to see if the 1144 Alloy Steel this is made of is capable of handling the Stress with a Proper Safety Margin.

Then there is the point that the 5.7x28mm Cartridge is a RIMLESS design so would need something like a "Moon Clip" or similar like was used to fire .45ACP rounds in a Revolver.
Also How would you Prevent the Case from Moving Back in the Chamber due to Thrust against the 'Shoulder'? Reportedly 5.7x28mm Chambered Rifles and Pistols do have a Problem with case "growing" in length at firing (Shoulder moving Forward on the Case).

Only an Engineering analysis of the proposed installation would be able to validate its Viability prior to Testing .

However: with that said, Starting with a Larger Frame Revolver, say one designed for .44 Magnum, and then Machining a custom Cylinder which would have a larger OD and more Web between Chambers at the 5.7x28mm cartridge dimensions may be more viable.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

For Relaxation before Going to Bed Early To Get up at 0300 to be at a Work Call before 0600 Tuesday Morning, I checked out Pacific Tool And Gauge Web site.
I Found Listings for the ".25 Stevens" and ".25 Stevens Long Rifle" Chamber Reamers.
so I placed an Order Monday night for a Finishing "Match Grade" .25 Stevens Long Rifle Chamber Reamer. Tuesday Morning I called PT&G and Verified that it is for the ".25 Stevens (Long) RF" Cartridge Chamber.
Beautiful, now I will have a Reamer to make Chambers to take my 6.35x28.6mmSR also as it is the same body diameter And Case Length, and the Rim is Smaller diameter than the Stevens one.

Thank You PT&G For Listing Reamers for These Cartridges.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Nobade]

Neat! That's good to know.

-Nobade

[leftiye]

At present working on a .25 Hornet (shortened) on a a Colt officer's frame/cyl.

[ajjohns]

Are yo uthe one who did the 1903 Winchester in 25 acp? If so, how did it turn out? This project you're into now looks to be intersting also!

[bedbugbilly]

Very interesting! I sure look forward to hearing more about how it is going and to see photos! You know . . we all love photos!

[Chev. William]

Are yo uthe one who did the 1903 Winchester in 25 acp? If so, how did it turn out? This project you're into now looks to be intersting also!

No, I Don't own a Win !903 so the party you are thinking of is someone else.
I do Know "Crank" has done some Conversions so maybe it was he?

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

At present working on a .25 Hornet (shortened) on a a Colt officer's frame/cyl.

Sounds Interesting. Are you planning to use .25ACP size Bullets or are you Planning to use .257 diameter Bullets?

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[leftiye]

.257 diameter. Nothing to see yet. Found a cheap (ya right) .22 cyl, and bought a Manson reamer. Shorten cases by .200 to fit cylinder. Got a 1 in 14 .258 barrel. I plan to make the revolver and a stub barrel for a contender to same chamber.

[Chev. William]

.257 diameter. Nothing to see yet. Found a cheap (ya right) .22 cyl, and bought a Manson reamer. Shorten cases by .200 to fit cylinder. Got a 1 in 14 .258 barrel. I plan to make the revolver and a stub barrel for a contender to same chamber.

Have You "Slugged" your Barrel and measured it yet?
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today, Saturday, the California Purchase Waiting Period Runs out on My Used Ruger .22 Cal. "Single Six" Donor Revolver. So About Noon I will be going to the Gun Shop to "take Possession' and then hand it, and two Replacement Cylinders and a Reamer, back to them to convert it to CF, AND ".25ACP, .250ALRM, and .6.35x28.6mmSR" Interchangeably, with a New 10-5/8" barrel cut from a "Lothar Walther" .25ACP/6.35 Browning C-M Barrel Blank.
I also have coming a third cylinder for the Third Cartridge and also ordered a ".25 Stevens Long Rifle Finishing Reamer" from PT&G to do the Third Cylinders' Chambers.
I am looking forward to taking this 8-shot 'sixshooter' to the range when it is done.

The .25ACP I expect to Yield around 1000fps and is intended to be a 'Standard Comparison Loading' for other Cartridges.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

ADDED 20151206: Yesterday at about Noon PST I was involved in a Six Vehicle Freeway Accident. Truck I was driving is Damaged, but I am not. I did get delayed Past the closing time of The Gun shop so I did not yet 'take Possession' of the Used Ruger. I therefore Quote a Generally Used Golfing Statement: "AW S**T!" Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Tuesday, December 8th, I 'took Possession' of my Fresh purchased Ruger .22 Cal. Single Six and Immediately turned it over to American Gun Works gunsmith Willie Clark to Fit a new 10-5/8 inch .25ACP/6.35 Browning Barrel and multiple 8-Shot Cylinders (chambered in: .25ACP; .250ALRM; and .25 Stevens (Long Rifle ?) with Conversion to Center Fire And a pair of replacement 'Hand' parts to fit so the Cylinders with index properly.

Willie also showed me the Progress on my Modified Stevens 44 Action Fitted with a Stainless Steel take off .308 Barrel shortened and chambered in .32 Long Colt, with a "Floating Barrel" Sleeve on it. It is getting close as he is in the Process of Finishing the .32 Extractor for it.

Once Willie is done with the Stevens 44, I will order a Bench Rest Forestock to fit the Sleeve and roughly match the Grain in the CPA 'Bench Rest' Buttstock I have for it.

I also have a '25.R.F.' barrel for this Action to use in Load testing of .250AlRM, 6.35x32mmSR, and 6.35x28.6mmSR loads.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[skeettx]

Pleased you were not injured, and that progress continues
Mike

[Chev. William]

Thank you for your Kind Words.
I was Only shook up, Saddened, and bruised some. No Air Bags Deployed in any Vehicle involved. My Truck, A "Gift" from my Late Wife as a Late Birthday Present that I got to Pay the Loan on, was Very Comfortable and Very Useful to me. Now it sits, crumpled on Both Front Corners and with a 'Broken Front Leg', in my Driveway waiting for the Insurance company to Decide What It Is 'Worth' now. Kelly Blue Book and Carfax web sites say it was worth between a Low of $12,900 (Private Sale) and a High of $15,900 (Dealer retail Sale) and I had about $3,300 Left to pay on the Loan.

I am Reminded of the WW2 Cartoon of The Army "Dogface" standing near the Front of his Wrecked Jeep holding his M1911 pointed toward the Radiator preparing to give it the "Dispatching Shot" for a Terminally Injured Mount.

I WILL be Keeping the Undamaged "Disabled Person" License plates (Freshly Renewed last month) to put on whatever I get to Replace it with.

Now Starts the Frustrating Search and Negotiations for a Replacement with similar capabilities: 4x4, Quad Cab, Individual Power Front Seats, 5-1/2 foot Bed, Locking Tailgate and folding Bed cover, Full Bed Liner, Trailer Towing Package with Heavy Duty Cooling system to handle full load uphill Tows in Hot Summer Weather with the Air Conditioning working, AM-FM Stereo Four sound channel Radio with CD playing capability, Running boards, and Passenger Assist Handles, and about 3,500-5,000 pound minimum Towing/Payload Capacity.

This one felt like a "long distance traveler pacing horse" is described on literature, very easy riding and comfortable for long distance/time "in the saddle" but with the 'heart' and 'strength' to carry a Medium Heavy load if needed.

This one was a Dodge 2006 Dakota Quad Cab SLT Night Runner 4.7L 4x4 Bought Used with 40,000 miles on it and Now has 73,400 miles. Made many Round trips from San Fernando Valley to Antelope Valley hauling Things and People. But Not Used for Daily "work" ride, as I have a 1986 Dodge Ram 50 "Royal" I use for that, with my "Tool Kit" in the Back Shell. Something like a Very Reliable Little "Mustang horse" that has been with me a Long Time and is 'well trained' and a comfortable mount.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[John Allen]

This sound great. I have wanted to do a bearcat conversion to 32 mag for awhile myself but things keep getting in the way.

[Chev. William]

When i was in the Gun Shop November 25th to finalize The Purchase of the donor revolver, Willie Clark brought out one he was finishing up for another customer in .17MRF with a 14 inch Barrel Case Colored frame; Blued Cylinder and Barrel; with Dark wood grips. It was a beautiful Piece.
Mine is Blued and is Used/Serviceable but clean as a Consignment sale from a Glendale PD person.
Perhaps this will Get you started on Your Project?
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Spent Saturday Looking at Trucks to replace my damaged Dakota with little luck so far.
Out of seven Trucks looked at only one, a 2002 Dodge Ram 1500, was reasonable in both Price and Condition/features. It is from "Snow States" and shows some underbelly evidence of the road salt use. in addition it has a 5.7L V-8 in it and has some 'minor' tail gate top dinging and rear Bed top corner dings from use without a Bed liner. otherwise it is usable and has a comfortable driving seat, did not try other seating myself. the Asking price is right at what the Insurance co. is offering for my Dakota so I would have to add some for Taxes and transfer fees. I don't know how the Greater years of use and greater mileage on this candidate would affect my Insurance rates or Maintenance costs in the future yet. The 5.7L engine may bring greater fuel costs though.
I will Be looking into it further on the internet to see if there is 'more History to it than presently known to me'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[ddixie884]

Interesting thread.

[Chev. William]

"Off and on" looking on the Internet for Replacement(s) for my damaged 2006 Dakota Quad Cab 4.7L 4x4 SLT 'Night Runner' but so far No Luck.
There are A Few on the Right Coast or Midwest but not well Documented and of Even older vintage and Higher Mileage ( mine has 73,500 miles ).
Numerous V6 types with Smaller Cabs up for sale though.

My gunsmith informed me that he does not expect to get to any of my Projects until after the First of the New Year due to pressing high priority work to be done, so No 'Christmas Toys' for me this year.

A Past weekend Wind storm 'Shredded' my Patio Canvas cover so I need to Get another one up before a forecast rain this weekend, 'Bah Humbug' for the Problem of getting the replacement in time and getting it erected ahead of the rain.

It seems "Global Warming" is providing a Cool and confused Weather Pattern to Southern California this month, plus the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power is Proposing higher Water rates as consumers have been conserving so well due to the drought, the revenue Stream is dropping! Get us users if we Don't conserve and get us if we Do Conserve. Plus the rate hikes are NOT rolled back in times of plentiful water availability.
It seems the City is "Skimming off the Funds" from the City owned "Non-Profit" utility.

Oh well, I guess that is 'Just Politicians Doing Their Thing' again.

May everyone have A Safe, Enjoyable Merry Christmas And Happy New Year.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Added Sunday: Saturday Afternoon some Friends helped me with the Patio Canvas Replacement so it is up. Saturday late Afternoon it started Raining here and lasted into the Night so the Canvas was up 'Just in Time'. Found a Possible Replacement truck on Line within Reasonable distance, now to Research it to see if It is Really a Close Match or just a Poor Dream. Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today Dawned Cool but clear And bright, Fitting for the Observed Anniversary of the Birth of Jesus Christ.
Yesterday brought me some "Goodies" that had been on Order for a Time:
A Lee Custom "6.35x32mmSR" Dead Seating Die (no Crimp Provision) with a Spire Point Bullet seating "punch" in it.
A Lee Custom "opened" Carbide ring .25ACP Sizing die that is .284" in Diameter to use as an intermediate forming die in making 5.7x28mm cases into 6.35x32mmSR cases, and of course Into 6.35x28.6mmSR cases eventually.
Also some "tooling" to use on Lathes, with replaceable Carbide Cutting tips.

All in All a pleasant Christmas Eve Delivery by The USPS.

Merry Christmas To ALL!
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

December 26th a friend and I went to Look over a Potential Replacement for my Damaged Truck and it turned out to be as close as I have found to mine offered for sale.
It is a Silver 2006 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab 4.7L 4x4 Short Bed with 0644xx Miles on the Odometer. The "Carfax Report" indicated that it has the Air Bag Recall outstanding and was fitted with Four new Tires by the Dealership (Scott Robinson Honda of Torrance, CA) on 12/11/2015 before putting it up for sale.
Ended the Day Driving it home so this week I will be looking into bringing it "up to Standards" and "applying for Credit Union Loan" to complete the Purchase.
- Already Checked with 'Chrysler Recall Center' and they confirmed the Air bag recall is only outstanding Recall on the Vehicle, and that the Dealer I used to service my old Truck has "95 Parts kits" on hand to do the Recall work. Work Scheduled for 20160104 AM at Dealer. WJS Completed.
I also am trying to get copy of Tire info from The Dealer but need to wait until the Sales force comes in Today, I guess I should have asked for the 'Tire Purchase Paperwork' when I was there Saturday evening.
Other things to be added to bring it up to my Use Standards:
- Running Boards for easier entry and exit.
Bidding on a Kit on EBAy: it closes in four days. WJS Won, Received, and on hand to be installed when Time and Weather permits.
- Solar Panel Battery Maintainer to keep Battery up, as I don't drive my trucks daily. !.5 Watt panel on Hand and 2.5 watt panel on order. WJS 2.5 watt Solar Panel installed in new truck (via Springy brackets against lower center windshield).
- Change out the Safety Related lamp globes for new (Head/Fog/marker/Tail-Stop-Turn/Backup).
- Get Headlight Lenses Cleaned/Polished/replaced to improve Visibility at night ( they are Presently 'fogged up' from Sun Exposure. Done (Polished up nicely) 20151228. WJS
- Go by my preferred Tire Dealer and ask them to check the Tire's Coding to verify data and age of the "New Tires". Done, they were Molded 16th wk of 2015. WJS
- Get Speedometer Calibration Checked as the Tire size on the truck is not the Size Delivered with it when new. This Truck is outfitted with an electronic Odometer so it needs to have a dealer insert the correct tire size code to register Speed and Miles correctly. Speedo. Shop closed for Holidays. WJS
I already informed my Insurance Carrier of the Purchase and it is on My Insurance before I left the Dealership.
- I will have a "Vehicle Mileage and Service Record Book" started before I drive it further today (a habit my Late Wife instilled in me for 'Tax Purposes', even though it will be only for the Last few days of this year and a second one will be started fro next year. Done WJS

All in all an eventful weekend and coming week.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

Also: Today I had my maintenance Receipts for the Damaged truck faxed to the Claims Adjuster; Applied for a 5 year Loan through my Credit Union. Had the Truck Washed and Paste waxed. Stopped by my Niece's Home to do a "Show and Tell" of my replacement truck and get a Solid Hug from my niece for the Accident and loss of my old truck. WJS 20151228

[skeettx]

Congrats on the new wheels :)

[Chev. William]

Further on the replacement truck:
it came with fittings and wiring for towing behind an RV. That means it has the Two sockets in front for a removable "Y" tow bar assembly, the provision for a "Breakaway Brake application" and Tow lighting wiring. The Brake additions include a Vacuum Pump, large Solenoid and cabling to attach it to the Brake Pedal, wiring, sensors and control modules.
It appears that the installed extras have a value of about $1500 to add to the Truck's basic value.
Today my Friend and I did some "installations" of my own.
- I had a temporary 1.5 watt Solar panel module suction cup mounted to the Windshield glass to help the Battery "keep alive" with the computer drains, clock, and Radio memories. The final 2.5 watt Panel is now installed usi9ng a pair of Springy brackets to hold it firmly against the Inside lower center area of the windshield so it will work with an inside Winshield cover in place.
- The Truck now has some light "D" rings mounted via #10 Screws to the Tailgate inside top edge and the two bed rear corners. These are to hold a "Spider Net"s hooks along the Rear edge of the Net, I can attach the Side hooks on the Mounts for the Tonneu Cover and along the Side rails of the Bed.
- Running Boards are planned and a 'Bug deflector' on the Hood front edge.

No work is being done on my revolver project as my gunsmith is away for the Holidays.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

January 1st, 2016 Dawned Clear and Sunny here in Southern California and I spent the morning watching The Tournament of Roses Parade in KTLA, Channel 5 in Los Angeles, sort of a tradition as it has been done since we moved into this Home, first with my Parents and Brother and now by my two dogs and myself.
The New Year, 2016 is Here!
May All Enjoy what it brings for the Remainder of its 364 Days.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[skeettx]

Leap year this year :)
Happy New Year,
May your new truck and new firearms conversions bring you great joy!!
Mike

[Chev. William]

Yup, 2016 is evenly dividable by 4 so This year has a "February 29th in it. Once again some Kids will be born on that day and thereafter will be told they only get a "Birthday" Anniversary once every four years. They will celebrate the Rest of the Years either Early or Late but at least they Won't be like kids born on December 25th, who never get a separate "Birthday Celebration".
Just think, they get a National Holiday and almost everyone in the World joins in the Celebration, A really Joyous Occasion.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[leftiye]

How about .22 Hornet brass sized to .278" and turned down to match at the head = straight wall .25, you choose the length.

[Chev. William]

Yes I have done that. The New PPU Brass, at about $32.00 a Hundred empty cases formed in One Step down to the rim through a Stock .25ACP Carbide ring sizing die yield about 95% successfully formed .276" diameter cases. These then need the Rim Thinned (to .050") and the flash hole opened to .078" again.
This results in a basic ".250ALRx" case of 1.380" length that I had to trim down to the other usable lengths I needed: .750", .875", 1.000", 1.055", 1.125", 1.250", 1.260", and 1.350" for my experiments. These were expanded through the Neck/Shoulder before Swaging down.

My RCBS "RC" press With its longer "Ammomaster II" handle required me to stand up and use both arms to do the swage step, putting nearly my full body weight on the end of the handle to get a smooth singe motion cycle.

The Three Step Swaging process for the 5.7x28mm brass is doable sitting and using one arm on the Press handle but it still requires using a Punch and hammer to extract the Formed case at each Step.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

By the way, I have used the Same process to reform .32 S&W/.32 H&R Mag./.327 Fed. Mag. cases into sizes suitable for .32 Long Colt/.32 Extra Long and Similar Obsolete cases. I have formed .32 in lengths from .32 Extra Short (at .395") to .32 Extra Long and .32 Extended Length cases (up to 1.200").

the Basic Process And tools have been posted as part of the thread:
reloadable .32 rimfire brass (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?147224-reloadable-32-rimfire-brass&highlight=.25+Stevens)On this Forum web site. There is a LOT of information on the process and experiments with various loads on that thread.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Good News for my Replacement Truck purchase. My Used Vehicle Loan was approved by my Credit Union, and Tomorrow I will be delivering the Cashier's Check to the Dealer.
I already Have Insurance on it, with $250.00 Deductible, Now to transfer my "Disabled Person" Plates to it from my old Truck.

I hope to Transfer the Plates on the Replacement Truck (commercial Truck) to the old Truck at the same time.

The old truck will be bought and repaired by a Friend at his request, He feels i twill b ea Good Investment for him to replace his present Truck, a 1998 Long bed Crew cab 4x4 with something newer and more maneuverable. He has already been Pricing parts and it seems about $7000.00 in parts will restore it to Roadworthy condition, with him providing the Labor.
Yes, it will initially have a"Salvage" title but he knows the procedure for getting that resolved once it is repaired.

Also today I went to see the Latest "Star Wars" Movie - Very Impressive Visuals and a LONG detailed Credits listing. It seems The CGI portions took More People to produce than the Live Action Shots!
I liked it.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[c1skout]

Good job on the new wheels. I know how stressful vehicle shopping can be! Now you need to get a big RV so you can make use of those "extras" :D .

[Chev. William]

Update On My Truck "saga":
Monday, I took the Insurance Check to my Credit Union as they wanted Proof I could Pay the Difference between what They Would Loan on the Used Replacement Truck and what the Dealer Price is.
Then they Placed a four Business Day Hold on the Deposited Check to make sure it was 'honored' by the Issuing Bank (Bank of America).
Thursday I went back and Signed the Loan paperwork and was told to come back Friday for the Money in the Form of Cashier's Checks.
Friday AM, went to CU, Received Two Cashier's Checks (made out to the Dealer) for: 1.) the amount of the Loan; and 2.) the remainder of the Purchase Price.
Drove to Dealer and handed over the Checks, received the Assurances of the Dealer that the New Tire guarantees (for the Tires on the Truck) would be Registered to me/the Truck.
I was also told The Extended Coverage (three Years of All parts guaranteed Coverage or 36000 miles which ever Comes first) would arrive in about 30 days, Total on the Truck is about $18,500.00 and I still need to do the License Transfer After I get the Registration in the mails.

I now have possession and part ownership of the Replacement 2006 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab 4x4 $.7L SLT Truck fitted with a Frame mount Class III/IV Hitch receiver and Trailer Wiring, Provisions for RV towing of the Truck including Break away Braking and & Towing/Towed Vehicle Wiring and a Roll up Bed Cover over a Sprayed On Liner in the Bed.
The Truck is in "Bright Silver" (Code "PS2") while the previous truck was "Black Pearl Metallic" along with having the "Night Runner" package including a Power Adjustable driver Seat with adjustable Lumbar Support built in to the Seat Back. I have Retained The "salvaged" vehicle also.

Now Comes the "search" for Items to 'bring the Silver Truck up to the Level of the Black Truck before the Accident:
- A Driver Side Power Adjustable Seat.
- Body Side Molding (about 2" wide soft Colored Moldings to protect the Doors (and rear body sides) from Shopping Cart Scrapes and Dings.
- A bug Deflector for the Front Hood.
- Repair of a 'dinged front 'Bumper' (plastic cover, inner Support and possibly the Steel Backer).
- Add Soft 'bumper edging' to rear Bumper, again to limit Scrapes and Dings.
- Miscellaneous Decals such as American Flags for the rear side windows, IBEW Local Decals, NRA Life Member Decals, CPO Gold Crow Decal, Etc.
- Install a 2.5 Watt Solar Panel against the Windshield to "keep alive' the Battery (Done already).
- A Roll Up Solar Shield for inside the Vehicle use when Parked outside ( Dealer only had a Fold up Solar Shield so I bought one)

Generally, to reprise Things that I found very useful on the Black Truck in my past Driving.
Friday Night I already have used the Silver Truck to help a Friend in 'Need' on his Job.

Stopped by my Gunsmith's and he is back after the Holidays but had no progress on my Projects to report.
Still Waiting for The PT&G .25 Stevens Long Rifle Chamber Reamer (It Finally came February 19th but is a Disappointment to be described in a Separate post).
It has been too Wet/Cool/Windy out to try my New sizing and Seating dies (my reloading 'shop' is my Back Patio).

Best Regards to all For this New Year, The Coming Primaries and National Elections give many "HOPE" for "CHANGE" again; this time correcting back toward Traditional American Values and Culture.
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

More on The 'Truck Saga':
Body side Moldings (four) = over $500 from Chrysler.
Repair of the 'Broken Ignition Switch/Lock and Two new Keys = $1000+.
Used Two Front Seats (take outs from a Dakota with the Power Adjustable Base and Lumbar support Adjustment) = $381 so far and still need repairs/reuplostry before they are usable as intended..

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I found this on another forum in a Thread Discussing POTENTIAL use of H110/WW296 in .38 Special +P load development and it is Very Good Background on ANY Slow Powder use in Developing Loads.
"


01-02-2016, 09:31 AM





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Join Date: Jan 2005
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Posts: 11,518








The problem with H110/296 is, AFAIK, mainly just in revolvers. It turns out the bullet base tends to pass the chamber throat and expose the then still-low pressure to the barrel/cylinder gap before the the heavy outer deterrent coating has been burned through. That is apparently enough of a leak to bleed the pressure down to the point the load occasionally extinguishes, leaving a bullet stuck in the barrel. If the next shot doesn't extinguish, which it usually doesn't, the obstruction can cause the gun to burst.

In carbines and single-shot handguns and other guns without a barrel/cylinder gap, as long as you get enough pressure to seal the chamber with the case, it behaves the same as any other slowish pistol powder does. There will be some lower limit (very small charges) where it can extinguish in such a gun, or it may do so when the bullet is too light for the burn rate. That can happen in rifles, too. I think maybe Mike G or one of the other moderators had a picture up some years ago of some fused 4831 that had extinguished in a rifle cartridge. Don't ask a powder to try to make gas fast enough to keep up with expansion that is too rapid for its burn rate.

In general, in a lower pressure application like 38 Special, even in a carbine, you'll find H110/296 doesn't burn very cleanly or completely and that you'll need to use more of it by weight to get the same velocity you can get from a more appropriate burn rate powder. If the gun is a revolver, I would not try it at all. When HP110 first came out, nobody knew about the extinguishing problem. That first appeared to have become known when Winchester followed suit by selling the same powder as 296 and recommending one fixed charge weight for each magnum handgun cartridge. Also, the extinguishing isn't very frequent, which can lull the user into a false sense of security using it in lighter loads. Finally, the burn rate used to be more variable from lot-to-lot. Hodgdon holds the powder burn rate to tighter standards now, so you don't know how much faster the lots tested for old manual data might have been. These three factors combined likely are the reason the old load manual information has been eliminated.


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__________________
Nick
__________________________
Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor"

Best Regards,
Chev. William
NRA Certified Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member

"First contemplation of the problems of Interior Ballistics gives the impression that they should yield rather easily to relatively simple methods of analysis. Further study shows the subject to be of almost unbelievable complexity." Homer Powley

[Sweetpea]

Updates?

[Chev. William]

The revolver and two of three Cylinders, the Barrel Blank, and two of three Chamber reamers are in the Hands of my gunsmith The Third Reamer is still "in Process" at PT&G and the Third cylinder is sitting here at home waiting for the reamer to come in the Mail.

My gunsmith is presently 'Swamped' as the Shop recently received a Large order of Parts to repair firearms already in the Shop. He has said my Projects are "in the Pile" and he will be working them as time permits but is not accepting any more work in the Shop this year until he gets things back under a reasonable time to repair estimate Backlog.

So I am Waiting.

My Replacement truck is getting pieces on order/on hand to upgrade it to the comfort/safety Levels of the first one. This includes getting parts and pieces to fit a power adjustable Driver's seat to this one; repairing a 'dented' front bumper cover; Running Boards; Body Side moldings; and a Heavy duty Transmission/Transfer case cooling Kit. Eventually I will probably replace the 'soft-roll up' Bed cover with a 'hard-folding' bed cover for more security.

I am still Waiting for 'title' papers for the Old Truck to arrive so I can Transfer the 'Disable person' license from it to my replacement truck. I am Still waiting for 'Registration' paper for my replacement truck also. It should list the Lien Holder on it along with myself as owner.
I am hoping I can Transfer the License on my replacement truck to the old one so both trucks have Valid Licenses.

The Old truck will be repaired by a Friend and go through the "Hoops" to get it inspected and the 'salvage' designation removed from it's title. My friend has already begun collecting the Parts needed, he estimates about $7000.00 in parts will be needed and he will do much of the work himself, along with his son. This 2006 Dodge Dakota will become his 'Daily Driver' Truck and the Present 1993 Ford Crew Cab Long Bed 4x4 will be put on standby and go through a rebuild. (The Rebuild of the 1993 Ford became a "Must Do" as the transmission Failed in it.
The Repairs to my old 2006 Dodge Dakota are now Top Priority At the Moment so my friend Will Have a Driveable Truck in the Near term. Chev. William)

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today i got an Update from my gunsmith on the Revolver conversion Work.
The Barrel blank has been reduced in diameter from about 1.1" to .69" on it way to .67" at the Tenon end and .6" at the Muzzle, over a 10-5/8" length.
I am Still Waiting for PT&G to finish the .25 Stevens Long Rifle Match Chamber Reamer.
The third Cylinder is on hand waiting for the chamber reamer.
The other Two Cylinders are done.
The Firing pin conversion is done.
He estimates it wil be ready for Test Firing in the Last third of this month.
Finishing will be done after Test firing is completed as the Bluing will be in a "Batch Lot" to reduce the Costs.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Set Back on The 2006 Dakota Repairs:
The Driver door Replacement sold to my Friend as a 'Electric Equipped Replacement' turned out to be a Total MANUAL replacement; not even a wiring Harness in it other than for Speaker. NOT what My friend Paid in Advance for ($700 for an All Electric replacement when the Manual door is valued at $200).
The 'Salvage Yard' is Now Hunting a Correct Replacement Door.

The 'Good News' is my friend found he also needs a Lower Hinge so he ordered one at the Same time.
The "Bad News' is that this is another Delay before it is repaired to Drive.
My friend has already replaced the Broken Steering Rack, lower Ball Joint and Tie Rods, the Front Bumper Support, and has temporarily 'hung' the New Front Fenders to check fits.
Yesterday it Moved under its own Power again so things Are coming along on the Repairs.
I have Been Providing transport for my friends with my Replacement truck of Late and last Week put over 400 miles on it! I have now driven it over 1600 miles since I Took Possession of the Replacement truck and I still don't have the Registration for it from The Dealer/Dept. of Motor Vehicles.

At least I am Learning the Driving characteristics of the Replacement, and the Differences between it and my ole one.
Fuel Mileage in the Replacement seems to be better than that of the Old one even though the only difference in Equipment is the Wheel/Tire diameters.
The old truck has LT265/70R17 Tires on 17x8 rims and Got 10-15 MPG depending upon cruses Speed.
The Replacement Truck has LT265/70R16 Tires on 16x8 Rims and seems to get 12-18MPG over similar trips.
Same Axle Ratios with smaller Tires means the Engine is turning faster at a given road speed, and Seems to burn less fuel in the process.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

That is true, Marshall. I have "LT" tires which are Stiffer construction overall than "P" Tires.

The Point of the mentions of the Tire size is the Rolling circumferences involved and their Effect on Engine speeds at the same Vehicle speeds. the '16 inch' tires have more revolutions per mile than the '17 inch' tires. Both trucks have the same Transmission and Axle Gear Ratio so it would seem a major part fo the difference is The 'lighter' loading on the Engine at a given vehicle speed.

Am I Mistaken?

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Marshall,
I have Already Learned that on one of my earlier cars. Back when I was Young and out of the Active Military Service I bought a New 1970 BMW 2002 and had 'custom steel wheels made for it using the BMW Centers and Corvair rims, which were an inch wider, set to an added 1/2 inch of offset. the result was a reduction in force at the Steering wheel when I went to 185/85R series from the Stock 165/85r series tires plus I was getting 21 to 23MPG on the Freeway Trips and 18 to 21 in local city driving. Handling o fthe Car seemed to Improve Also as the side 'roll' improved as well, I took the car out to Willow Springs Raceway and comfortably circulated at an average speed of 89MPH, Later on my Father and I took a Car trip from Los Angeles to San Francisco on I-5 primarily going up and Highway 1 and I-101 returning. at 65MPH on I-5 we got 23 and 24MPG. On the way Home my father drove from Monterrey to San Luis Obisbo on Highway 1 while I slept and he Averaged 61MPH on that leg very comfortably, getting 24MPG.
My father was 78 at the time and usually drove about 53-56 on the Freeways in his cars.

A Very Enjoyable Trip for both of us as we attended a "Golden Gate Live Steamers" Meet on the trip.

My father passed on in 1984, and my Mother followed in 1998, so my memories are a Joy to me. The BMW was Vandalized in 2008 while I was Away on a Trip, they stripped the Engine, Transmission, and Interior out of it so I sold the remains for $200 Salvage. At the time I had over 374,000 miles of Happy Driving on it.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

For the Last week I have Been down with a "Cold", coughing up Flem, running Nose, but no apparent Temperature, Just Feeling Miserable.
Friday, Feb. 19th, UPS 'delivered' my new PT&G Chamber reamer just inside my Front gate, I guess He was Intimidated by the "Beware of Dog" sign posted on it.
I am Disappointed.
It is NOT for a ".25 Stevens (Long) RF" cartridge!
It IS a ".25-25 Stevens", a "Long Rifle" Cartridge of completely different character!

This is not what I wanted nor what I tried to order back in November 2015.
I guess I believed both myself and the Order Taking Person at PT&G were talking in the Same Terms and discussing the CORRECT Cartridge to Order The Reamer while it seems I was Talking ".25 Stevens (Long) Rim Fire" the Order Taker was hearing ".25-25 Stevens Long Rifle" and did not Pick up that the one I wanted should make a Chamber about 1.150" deep instead of a 2.35+" deep one.

Now I have to wait for Monday, Feb. 22nd, to call PT&G and see What Can Be Done to Correct This Problem.
I also will be telling my gunsmith that the waited for Reamer is the WRONG ONE to use to remake my Ruger 'Replacement Cylinder' to take ".25 Stevens (Long)/6.35x28.6mmSR" Cartridges.

Not a Total "Show Stopper" but a Deep Disappointment to me as it slows my progress on several projects that are 'in the works'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[leftiye]

That's probly why Manson sends you a drawing with dimensions to verify before finalizing orders. On custom reamers anyway.

[Chev. William]

This Saturday, February 27th, after Two Weeks of 'misery' the "Cold" let up so I took the third Cylinder in to my Gunsmith to begin its conversion to .250" Caliber from .22" Caliber. My gunsmith told me that my custom Barrel will be going out with a Batch of other items for Bluing soon and that the Firing Pin/Bushing is nearly completed for thsi CF conversion of a RF Ruger "Single Six".

My gunsmith also told me my Model 44 is nearing completion as he is in the final process of Fitting the CF firing pin.

Sunday I went with a Friend to recover a Used Food Preparation Unit about 12 feet long, 4 feet wide and four feet high made of Stainless steel (It IS Heavy). It took us about 1-1/2 hours to work i tout of the place it was and onto a dual axle Auto Trailer. the round trip was 153 miles and took the better part of the Day. We took my 'Silver Truck' and registered 12.4 MPG for the trip. The Bed of the truck was loaded with 'Equipment moving Skates, jack Stands, Jack, Tool Bags, Dunage and Tie down Straps to move and Secure the item. Seems like a fair performance for a trip through the Coastal Mountains here in Southern CA.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today I learned my gunsmith is going to send my Custom Barrel out for Bluing process as part of a Batch Lot next week which means my Revolver is getting Close to Delivery.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

ADDED 20160325: Further delays as the Batch Lot of Bluing items did not go out as planned, now probably going out next week, might be back first week of April (???). I can Hope. Chev. William

[leadman]

I am assuming the Silver truck is a V8? I own a Red Quad Cab 2001 Dakota 4X4, 5 speed with 3.9L V6 and 3.90 gears. Before I put the posi diff in the rear I could get over 20mpg on the highway but the diff lowered it to about 19mpg.
I had LT tires on it but this last set are P but with more sidewall plies for heavier loads. Discount said they should work well for a pick up and they do. They are Cooper Discover mud & snow. I have had them on flood forest roads that where extremely muddy and they did not let me down.
Your Single Six project is very interesting. I recently purchased one of the older SS with adjustable sights in 32 H&R mag. I was thinking of modifications I could do to it but it shoots so good I would hate to do that.
I also have a SS that only had a 22LR for it when I bought it used. I later bought a 22 WMR cylinder at a gun show that fits it. I just got both out and the 22 LR cylinder will not go in the 32 frame, the 22 WMR will. This opens up possibilities for a low cost conversion of some sort. There is not alot of extra metal in the 32 cylinder to work with so it might not be practical unless I put a 22 cal barrel on it. A 22 Snapper, a shortened to 1.040" Hornet will fit in the cylinder. This was developed by Snaps gun shop for use in revolvers, mostly S&W and Colts. A max load with a 40gr bullet is around 1,900 fps which just about duplicates a 22WMR in a revolver but is reloadable.

[Chev. William]

Leadman,
Yes, Both my 2006 Dodge Dakotas are 4.7L V8 engined. They both were built with 3.55:1 Axles and Air Conditioning to boot.
The Silver Truck now has 'Disabled Person" plates on it as of Saturday: I inquired at the local AAA Auto club office that has DMV service and found the DMV had received the Change of Registration but not yet Sent the registration to me, so I traded in my 'Commercial Plates' for 'Disabled Person Commercial Plates' so I don't have to keep hanging and removing my Permanent Disabled Person Placard off the Mirror.
Now I will need to make reinforcing Backer Aluminum Plates for them like i have on the Black Truck. Also my friend had been Driving the Black truck even though it still has a hole in one valve cover Dribbling oil. That will get fixed with his next Pay check, then he plans to have the Repairs painted professionally to match the "Black Crystal Metallic" original Paint.
I finally received the Title For the Black Truck; it came marked "Salvage Net" and I will transfer it to my Friend when he pays me for the Truck. Presently he is driving it on his Insurance with me listed as an Insured person on his Insurance.

The Barrel for my SS conversion is supposed to go out for batch bluing this week so perhaps by the end of the month it will be back and the Revolver completed.

Your .32 SS thoughts look interesting but I believe it may be hard to find Cylinders to fit it suitable for alternative .32 Caliber Cartridges. Have you 'Slugged" your Barrel to find out what exactly its Bore and Groove dimensions are? My Stevens Barrels seem to measure between .304" and .308" Groove diameter for .32 Long Cartridge Chambers instead of the .311" to .315" of other .32 cartridges. It seems J. Stevens made his rifle barrels to the Tight End of the nominal range for Greater Accuracy with the Ammo Available in the Era. It seemed to work as his barrels had a Good Accuracy Reputation.

If your Barrel measures toward the "Tight End" of Barrel dimensions you will have more Selection options for possible Calibers in the .30-.32 range.

A possibility you might consider is to have cylinders made from Heat Treated 4140 Alloy Steel using Carbide tooling. Mill hardened Bar can be obtained so it is already at about RC 40 level; which should be good for revolver cylinders. Another possibility is "Stressproof" 1144 Alloy as it comes at about 100,000psi Yield Strength and can be heat treated to further Increase its Yield strength if needed.


Best Regards,
Chev. William

[leadman]

My truck has a/c also. Been ages since I have seen a non-a/c vehicle here in Az, other than the Bajas. I had a VW bus that I had a/c on it, had 2 condensers under the middle with electric fans on them. It was a 2 litter engine and the compressor was a small Tecumseh mounted with pulley facing forward towards the block. Was a real pain to change the belt as it went behind the engine fan shroud.
My first Dakota was a 1988 single cab, long bed, 5 speed with a 3.9L V6 and 3.55 gears. I think a set of 3.90 would probably improve your fuel mileage. With the overdrive transmissions they are in a good power range so if you hit a little incline it takes very little throttle to maintain speed.
My barrel is .312" which is not a problem but I hesitate to enlarge the holes in the cylinder to anything larger. Would probably need to have the custom cylinder made as you suggested to get it as large a diameter as possible. The Nagant revolver 7.62X38R brass could be blown out a little to make it a straight walled case with a bottleneck of slightly larger body diameter. Probably not worth the money to do this.

[Chev. William]

My truck has a/c also. Been ages since I have seen a non-a/c vehicle here in Az, other than the Bajas. I had a VW bus that I had a/c on it, had 2 condensers under the middle with electric fans on them. It was a 2 litter engine and the compressor was a small Tecumseh mounted with pulley facing forward towards the block. Was a real pain to change the belt as it went behind the engine fan shroud.
My first Dakota was a 1988 single cab, long bed, 5 speed with a 3.9L V6 and 3.55 gears. I think a set of 3.90 would probably improve your fuel mileage. With the overdrive transmissions they are in a good power range so if you hit a little incline it takes very little throttle to maintain speed.
My barrel is .312" which is not a problem but I hesitate to enlarge the holes in the cylinder to anything larger. Would probably need to have the custom cylinder made as you suggested to get it as large a diameter as possible. The Nagant revolver 7.62X38R brass could be blown out a little to make it a straight walled case with a bottleneck of slightly larger body diameter. Probably not worth the money to do this.

.312" is right at .32 S&W/.32 H&R Mag. Size. I believe it is also within useful range for .32 Short And Long Colt Cartridges, which have a smaller Body diameter, use a Heeled bullet so the Driving Bands of the bullet are about case body diameter.

IF You decide to make a New Cylinder and Replace the barrel on your revolver, then any combination of your choice, within the limits of the Frame Strength and Dimensions.

Costs, of course are for you to decide about.

Good Luck and let us know of your progress.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I had a Work Call for Thursday, 3-24-2016, that may be the beginning of a Week of Work. Yea!

Chev. William

[skeettx]

SORRY, but I do not understand Work Call?
What is a Work Call?

Mike

[Chev. William]

My Union Local (IBEW Local 40) Dispatches for Signatory Employers. A 'Work Call' is a Call from the Dispatcher asking if the Union member will accept the offer of Work. As a 'retired 73 year old' I tend to get the Calls for temporary work, such as running a Generator set or Operating a 'Ritter' Fan (a Movie Wind Machine). I am Currently on a multiple day job that Started March 24th at 1500 hours PDT.
Getting to and from the Jobs varies in difficulty, from a few miles Drive to some of about 50 Miles one way for "Location Movie Scenes). The Current Job is on Paramount Studios lot in Hollywood, CA and is usually a longish walk form the Parking Structure to the Stage or Back Lot site towing a Cart with my Tool Kit on it. Each "call" has a Minimum 8 hours paid time so it is profitable most of the time.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: I joined the Local based upon my Navy Career and my Defense Electronics Experience after Working "off and on" as a "Permittee", paying for months in which I got a call. I am dispatched out of the "Movie Industry Book #1" in my Union. I started taking 'Permit' jobs back in 1986 between Jobs in the Electronics Industry, finally getting tired of being hired for a Long Term, leading to Retirement, only to be laid off 3 to 5 years later when the Project was completed or there was a 'downturn' in the Industry. After Joining the Union as a Regular Member I received work that lasted steadily for several years then I switched to part time work after reaching 68 years of age. I am Still Taking Work Calls to supplement my Social Security, Military Retirement, and Veteran's Disability payments. They keep me active and pay well when they come. Chev. William

[skeettx]

Chev
THANK YOU
Great explaination
Happy Easter
Mike

[Chev. William]

Was a Working Easter! 0700 to 2030 so it was a LONG Day.

Happy Easter Everyone.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Belated update:
Last Thursday afternoon my gunsmith said my custom 10-5/8" barrel was waiting at the Bluing contractor for Pickup and perhaps the shop owner would get the Lot sometime this week.

He also showed me the firing pin in my Converted CF Stevens model 44 that still needs trimming to length to work properly (tip extends about 1/4 inch as displayed and does not fully retract when opening the action yet).

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Tax Day, Friday April 15th, I stopped by my gunsmith's Shop an was told the Bluing Lot that contained my custom Revolver barrel was picked up and was back in his shop. Progress is happening.
While there I bought 100 rounds of .32 S&W 85 grain Lead Round Nose Magtech ammo for my Iver Johnson 5 shot DA Revolver. I hope to get to my local Range sometime soon.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Today I got a call from my gunsmith that he needed me to brin gin my .25ACP reamer again to touch up some chambers. He said he had the Barrel final fitted to the Frame and had fired it a couple of times so I took my camera along.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/HPIM0803_zpsh3x9toie.jpg
This is the Left side with the cylinder removed.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/HPIM0803_zpsh3x9toie.jpg
This is the Right side with the cylinder removed.

Willie said I might be able to pick the revolver up Friday or Saturday.

Also here are Photos of my replacement 2006 Dodge Dakota:
http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Dodge%20Dakota/HPIM0799_zpsa69zmijm.jpg

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Dodge%20Dakota/HPIM0800_zpsy12gjce6.jpg

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Dodge%20Dakota/3c5d20cb-8109-41c0-9b8e-79d224bb7259_zpsboljxquw.jpg

The body color is Bright Silver Metallic and the Body Side Moldings are painted Mineral Gray Metallic by my choice.

only some interior mods to do and a few Decals to apply to get it into the Way my old Black one was outfitted.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I was able to pick up my customized Ruger "Convertible Single Six" in 25ACP this afternoon with only the .25ACP cylinder ready to use. Willie Clark, my gunsmith, was taking in three REM Rolling Blocks, one Carbine and two Rifles with full length wood to be "Slugged" and Chamber Casts made when I arrived. 'Bedlam' in the Shop for a while as Willie was pulled off to reassemble a 1873 Winchester the customer had taken apart and Jammed up putting it back together. Good conversation with the owner of the RBs while waiting.
Now to Get to a Range and try it out. I wil try to get some completed photos of it and post them.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Mica_Hiebert]

suspense is killing us!

[Chev. William]

Have Patience. I AM of an Age where it takes time and Preparation to take long Trips or Walk longer distances on 'rough Terrain'.
I had two friends over Saturday Moving, and Removing to a Salvage/Scrap yard, a few Heavy items and it Did Not make the rest of the day go well for me. The Clean Up is needed and will continue in the future. Sunday I am expecting Visitors about Midday so I do not believe I will be going to a range either Before nor after they are expected.
Perhaps one day next Week? It all depends . . .

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Jere are some photos of the Ruger with its .25ACP cylinder that I took and Edited Sunday afternoon:

(the cylinder is still marked ".22-MAG" but is reamed and chambered in .25ACP.)

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/e00e59ca-75ea-404b-bb66-924b80b4608a_zpsypfclyjk.jpg

My gunsmith put 32 rounds through it getting the Firing Pin and Timing Correct.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/a007a007-e395-4538-b79a-5f6182d57649_zpsgjh4flaf.jpg

It now has an offset Firing Pin Tip in an Offset Bushing and a custom fitted and Timed S.S. 'Hand'.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/d9cf0baa-8a3a-45b5-9997-7c9e3b413371_zpstupsx4dy.jpg

I have been waiting all day for some Visitors who called and made an appointment to come over Today at about 10:00 but have yet to show up at 16:05.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

And today, here is a photo of the complete Revolver's Left side, with my ".25ACP" 8 shot cylinder installed:

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/c10bec5b-4ebc-4fa1-93ea-b198de0e1eb7_zpsh7wguln4.jpg

The Revolver is still marked as ".22 CAL." and the Cylinder is still marked "22-MAG".

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/Ruger2025Cal20CF20Conv20Mod20Cyl20Marking_original _zpsg2dggaqx.jpg

Maybe someday I will get the Cylinder remarked to reflect the actual Cartridge it is chambered for.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Mica_Hiebert]

hows it shoot? :-)

[Chev. William]

My gunsmith was happy. He fired 32 rounds through it before handing it over to me.
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

This Afternoon I got to go to an Indoor range to try out my Ruger Customized Revolver.
All discussions on targeting are based upon a 'Military 6 O'clock Sight Picture' and 12 hour clock face directions.

First Target at ~15 to~21 Yards I fired 17 rounds, with several "Jams" but got 15 rounds on paper in a 'pattern' generally about 7:00 and about the outer ring. I think this Revolver will shoot better than I can hold standing in a Two Handed Grip. Cocking with my weak thumb.

I then adjusted the rear sight elevation screw two clicks CW and Hung the Second Target.
8 rounds fired, 7 rounds on paper, and 'pattern' centered about 7:30 on the edge of the Black. One round made a Oblong hole. this is again at the range maximum distance.
Again two 'hang ups locking cylinder rotation.

Third target Hung and rear sight adjusted one additional Click CW (seems like the limit of adjustment reached). Fired 8 rounds and 7 rounds on paper. The pattern seems to be about the 8:00 position on the edge of the central red circle. There were three hang ups blocking cylinder rotation in this string.

Each 'hang up' was cleared by removing the Cylinder from the firearm with Cases and unfired cartridges in place. All 'hang up' rounds show asymmetrical primer face bulge/distortion. apparently along the Half circle around the firing pin hole in the bushing. It is too dark tonight to take photos of the case heads and targets so I will try to do it tomorrow. i will then be taking the revolver, cases, and targets in to my gunsmith for a 'consultation'.

The other 'News' is I purchased a early 1900s Winchester 'Leg of Mutton' 1890 Take down rifle case that came in yesterday's mail. It is clean, Tan in color and needs much TLC as the Stitching failed in shipping. It even has a locking Buckle holding the cover closed and came with the key!
This lock is more of a 'safeguard to keep 'honest people honest', not a Secure Locking feature" to dissuade 'those of Criminal Intent'. it is designed as part of the Buckle's Tung and secures the Tung from releasing the Leather Tab that holds the Leather hinged End Cover closed wit two opposing 'bolts' that slot into the Buckle Bail.

I do have a Local Custom Saddle maker and Leather Worker to work in its repair/restoration that has done work for me in the past.

I feel the "patterning" reported is more my fault than the Revolver as standing long periods is not really comfortable for me. the patterns were generally horizontal but had fliers away from the Group. Perhaps more Practice will bring better results.

Also the Muzzle Noise, with soft ear plugs was about the same as a .22LR Rifle and much more pleasant than the .38 and .375 revolvers being shot about five stations away.

I am Leaving the revolver uncleaned to show my gunsmith.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[skeettx]

OK, and you may also want to prime some of your ammo with Remington 7 1/2 primers and drop the powder charge one grain
That should take care of your primer deformation issues, perhaps
Mike

[Chev. William]

OK, and you may also want to prime some of your ammo with Remington 7 1/2 primers and drop the powder charge one grain
That should take care of your primer deformation issues, perhaps
Mike

The Ammo is/was Factory loaded PPU 50 grain FMJ-RN so custom hand loads were not involved . . . . yet.
I do save my brass for future Reloading.
I have returned my Revolver to my Gunsmith for correction as "It Should Not do This" malfunction. The Whole Idea of a revolver is High Reliability Operation with Factory Ammo, and ease of adapting it to similar but longer cartridges by simple change of cylinder(s).

I expect it to fire multiple full cylinders of cartridges without malfunction when it is fully Debugged.

I will keep your suggestions in mind for future Load testing, especially when I try heavier Bullets in the .25 ACP case.

the ~9.4 to ~9.8 inch per turn twist rate of my 10-5/8" barrel should stabilize bullets heavier than the 50 grain pills factories Load in this cartridge. as I believe 'stock Twist is around 1 turn in 14 inches.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Here are some photos I took before turning the revolver over to my gunsmith:

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/HPIM081820TGT201_zps6nhqcjum.jpg
The first target I fired with this customized Ruger Revolver. i believe the Revolver shoots Better than I can hold at the moment. I was using the 'military 6 O'clock Sight Picture.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/HPIM0815%20Case%20Heads%20Cropped_zpsvk41ehre.jpg
This photo of the case heads of fired rounds illustrate the 'Half Moon Bulge on those which caused 'Hang ups' in rotating the cylinder for the Next shot.

[Chev. William]

Here is Alliant's answer to my inquiry:
"RE: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form
Date: May 11, 2016 10:19 AM

William,
Alliant has no tested load data for the 25 Auto using the BE-86 propellant.
Thanks,
Shoot Straight
DuaneVB
CCI/Speer/Alliant
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID"

So it seems I, and other Experimenters, are in "Uncharted Territory" to use of BE-86 propellant.

I do have a one lb. canister of BE-86 to experiment with IF I a\can get some useful guidelines for it application to these small diameter Cases.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Upon rereading my first range report about firing my Ruger in .25ACP configuration I noted I did not discuss other characteristics of the Revolver.

Recoil is small to negligible with a small muzzle Rise with firing, about from the "6 O'clock hold" to the top of the Paper. at this distance on this target (25 yard Target). Very comfortable to handle.
The two handed grip is due to my Poor stamina in a long, standing, position. I was faced square to the target, with Spread legs and leaning against the 'shooting bench' with both arms at full extension forward with my Right hand wrapped around the Grip and my left hand over-wrapping my right. This left my Left thumb available for Cocking the action between shots. The 10-5/8 barrel seems slightly muzzle heavy to my unaccustomed hands. it will take more firing practice to make a better determination on that.
As I said in previous post the Muzzle Blast is mild and comparable to a .22LR rifle in character as perceived by this Hearing damaged Veteran with foam Ear plugs in place. Definitely much more comfortable than teh Muzzel reports of the Revolver(s) firing about 5 stations to my right. This was an Indoor Range which does have an effect on Muzzle Reports perceived.

Generally, I think I will enjoy this Revolver once it is 'debugged' and working reliably to my satisfaction. A Very good beginning outing I think.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[lightload]

In shop time about how many hours did your gunsmith spend on your project?

I'm old too so I may have missed it. Are the cylinder throats larger than the rear of the barrel?

Also, I have an extra custom powder disc for throwing very small powder charges with a Lee Auto Disc powder measure. If you wish, I'll send it to you to try, and if you like it you can have it for the actual cost(cheap). By mistake I ordered two. Better than that-pay the postage and you can have it.

[Chev. William]

I do not know the hours but the shop charged me $200.00 for the Work to Make the New barrel, fit it to the frame and set it up for the screw attached parts, revise the firing pin location form RF to CF, have the barrel Blued by an outside shop and rework one Cylinder form .22WMR to .25ACP and time the Results for 8 shot cylinders.

I do not have the cylinder nor the Revolver in front of me at the moment but i believe the cylinder was first reamed through to .250" or .251" Diameter then chambered using a replaceable pilot reamer. The Forcing Cone on the Back fo the barrel is probably larger than that to insure bullets actually enter the barrel even with wear to the Lock up parts, possibly .005" to .010" over size at the 'Cylinder' end adn tapering to bore diameter of the .25ACP barrel (~.243") the groove diameter is ~.250" and factory Ammo is loaded with ~.251" FMJ bullets.

I do not own nor use a Powder Measure other than Lee dippers and RCBS "505" balance scale to weigh each and every charge I load. Slow, Tedious but I am more Sure of my loads than others.
Especially the .07 grain to 1.3 grain charge range for .25ACP.

Thank you for the Offer but I would not use it; i am too set in my Ways to go to a 'automated' loading system.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Talked to my Gunsmith today and he has trouble shoot my Revolver and is moving to correct the Problem. He found that the Firing Pin Bushing is moving Back into the Frame with Firing. He tried another Ruger Bushing an it did the same; so he is going to make a new, longer, Bushing with a crowned face so it will "Two Block" up against the shoulder in the bushing hole in the Frame.

His comment: "the .25ACP has more recoil force than the .22WMR."

On a Separate Subject:
Here is Alliant's reply to my Queries:

"Subject: RE: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form Date: May 18, 2016 10:13 AM
William,
We are not aware of any of the issues you are bringing up with the BE-86.
The next time we do some testing of this powder, we will look into testing it for the 25 Auto.
Thanks,
Shoot Straight
DuaneVB
CCI/Speer/Alliant
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: chevwilliam@earthlink.net [mailto:chevwilliam@earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2016 7:29 AM
To: Alliant Reloading
Subject: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form

William J. Stewart ETC USN Retired
chevwilliam@earthlink.net
8376 De Garmo Avenue
Sun Valley California 91352-3586 USA

Dear Sirs:
RE: BE-86 Use and Characteristics.

I am interested in this propellant for use in small charge weight applications in
the Range of 0.5 grains to 5.0 grains.

My Questions:
1. Does BE-86 exhibit any small charge combustion instability problems?

2. Does BE-86 exhibit any Ignition problems in small charge Weight use?

3. Does BE-86 exhibit any low charge volume to case powder chamber volume ratio
instability such as demonstrated by "H110" and "W296" propellants?

4. Is there Any Lower limit of Charge weight or Volume of charge for BE-86
indicated by your testing to date?

5. Is Alliant planning to test this powder for use in .25 ACP size range Cartridges?

My Intended use is in .25 ACP and a series of "Mildcat" longer cases based upon
reduced (to .276" outside) diameter .22 Hornet or 5.7x28mm parent cases in lengths
including 1.055", 1.125", and 1.250" among others.

Regards,
William J. Stewart ETC USN Retired
818-767-8082

Handgun -
Firearm Make/Model: Ruger "Single Six"
Cartridge: .25 ACP /6.35 Browning and similar "mildcat" designs
Bullet Brand and Style: Various FMJ-RN of .250"-.252" dia.
Bullet Weight (Grains): 50 Grain, 65 grain, and others
Primer: Various Small Pistol
Powder: Alliant Bullseye or BE-86, Bullseye, Unique and Similar."

It seems they WILL be Testing for the .25ACP in the future and may test for my concerns.
Now to await their Testing - - patiently.
Chev. William

[lightload]

S&W crimps their bushings in the frame.

[Chev. William]

S&W crimps their bushings in the frame.
Is this the same type of crimp as used on Military Primers?
Chev. William

[lightload]

No, sir. The crimping part of the tool is round and fits against the fire wall at that point where the bushing and frame are contiguous. The other part is a rod passing through and down the barrel and touches the crimping part. A big hammer does the rest. I saw this procedure done 35 years ago by a l.e. armorer on a M-65 whose bushing came loose.

[Chev. William]

Sounds like an annular 'Stake' to tighten the bush in the Hole. is that the appearance of the finished installation?
Chev. William

[Michael J. Spangler]

I just read a cool article in the new handloader magazine. Lipseys and Ruger are possibly working on a single 8 in a new cartridge. The cartridge might be based off of a lengthened 25 ACP around the length of a 25 Flea.
That would make for a nice package for all of us who have been watching this. They said if you have interest in this cartridge and gun please call Lipsey's and let them know.

[Chev. William]

Thanks for the "Heads Up" about the 'Handloader' Article. I have read the Article also and Sent Lipsey's an Email with information on my experiments and photos of my Long Barrel Ruger 8 shot in 25ACP.
They Said they Thanked me for the Input.

I do Hope they use at least a 1.055" case length, but would really Prefer they go to one of 1.125" ase length in the 1.410" to 1.420" Cylinders.
Using a 50 grain FMJ-RN as the Jacketed version and a 65 grain RFN Lead Gas Checked as the 'Hunting' load would give some really Snappy performance out of this Caliber.
I believe The Ruger 'Single Six' might have the Capacity for loads in the 40,000psi Pmap area; which would really push the performance up considerably. 40,000psi is the same as the .22 Hornet and the .30 Carbine rounds.
Even if limited to about the same Pmap as the .22WMR (24,000psi) it would still give respectable performance. my calculations indicate the 50 grain pill out of the 1.055" case with a 3.61 grain Charge of Bullseye would yield about 24,982psi Pmap; 1728fps and 331ft-lbs at the muzzle of my 10-5/8" barreled Revolver (about 12" muzzle to Breech face on the frame).

Of course the 65 grain pill would come off at lower, but still Respectable, Speed and Energy.

On a different Note: My gunsmith has returned my Ruger to me with the Bushing 'set back' cured verified by his test firing a full cylinder through it with NO issues.

Now to get to a range and do some Firing myself. I DO need to practice with this Long barreled 8 shooter as it is the First long barreled revolver I have fired and my 'hold' Does Need Work.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[leftiye]

Shortened .25 hornet? No messing with case head.

[Chev. William]

The .25 Hornet has a .350" diameter by .065" thick rim on a body Base diameter of .299" with a rapid taper to .277" diameter at .825" above the Base.
To use it at a 1.055" case length would require a shoulder be formed after trimming.
To use it at 1.125" length the shoulder could be formed before Trimming but at a steeper Angle than the Parent case.
Obviously all are possible but I am hoping for a Straight wall case rather than a Tapered or Shouldered one.
A straight walled case with a smaller diameter rim would also 'fit' the 8 shot cylinder idea better.
The replacement 8 shot cylinders I have been buying measure 1.415" outside diameter with the chambers on about a .937" diameter circle. the .295" diameter rim rebates have a .055" wall between them. These dimensions indicate that .350" diameter rims would be touching each other, with no clearance between them.
Also, the Larger rims would cut down the diameter of the Indexing ratchet and I don't know if that is advisable.

there is also the choice of Bullet diameters that Ruger would need to consider. Pistol .25 Cal. usually have employed .250"-.251" bullets while Rifle .25 Cal. have usually employed .257"-.258" bullets. Which is better in a Revolver application is the question facing Ruger.
Obviously, to me, providing the option of firing the .25ACP through the same revolver as the Longer choices is a good idea as it would allow a greater range of performance out of the one firearm.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Took a trip to the Angeles Shooting Ranges today with my Ruger.25ACP 8 shot revolver.

Shot about a Hundred rounds of different Manufacturer and some Hand loads.
First target = upper on the Frame; Hand loads and some PPU factory as controls; Group pattern roughly round and slightly Left of aim point (e.g.; about 1/2 diameter of Bullseye on "25 yard target" at a distance of around 5 to 7 yards).
63 grain Lead ahead of 3.0 grains of BE-86 gave some recoil, raising muzzle about twice the Target height and muzzle report was about that of a .22WMR. Holes looked all round and centered as stated.
52 grain Lead ahead of 3.1 grains of BE-86 gave slightly less recoil, about 1-1/2 target height muzzle Rise. group slightly smaller diameter. Muzzle report stronger than Factory but not sharp.
50 grain factory FMJ-RN; Relatively quiet muzzle report, soft in character; group centered as before, left of aim point and about on the same level.

NO "hang up' Problems this time!

Second Target = Lower Target used fo r50 rounds of Fiocchi 50 grain FMJ-RN Factory loads; one Fail To Fire, light Firing Pin hit indication. Tried this cartridge repeatedly and got he Same indication; NO Change In FP mark Depth? 49 rounds built a pair of pattern vertically separated by point of aim change.
First sequence was at aim point at 6 O'clock at bottom of black.
Second sequence was at aim point at 6 O'clock to red center of Bullseye.
Each group was roughly round and around 3 to 4 inches in diameter.

Conclusions:
1. The hint about Trigger finger is correct; no horizontal Stringing this time.
2. The 63 grain bullet over 3.0 grains of BE-86 is worth further experimenting. I need to load more Samples of this combination to check 'pattern Accuracy'.
3. The 52 grain Bullet over 3.1 grains of BE-86 is Worth investigating further, possibly with slightly more Propellant squeezed into the case, again I need to load more samples of this to check 'pattern accuracy'.
4. My Hold using my elbows resting on a Bench and two hand hold of revolver seems to help my 'weak hold' problem. I will need A LOT of Practice to get where I can hold the Muzzle up and steady with one hand.
5. Firing .25ACP between two people with Big bore Glocks is tiring to the Ears even with hearing protection and the occasional Hot Brass casing is distracting.
6. At least Today was a Reduced Price day.
7. A 'pistol' cleaning rod is too short to work.
8. sight 'windage' adjusted 'two clicks' to move muzzle and pattern Right. Will verify in next Range session.

NOTE: The Two charges named are NOT RECOMMENDED for "Blow-Back" Actions.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[victorfox]

Chev. William please check Handloader mag #302 june 2016. You might drop them a line they would probably publish your story... or should you contact Ruger? (page 24 by Brian Pearce). Maybe you could make a pretty penny, don't know... Best.

[Chev. William]

Seen, Read, and done back a ways in the Posts on this Thread.

Seems like Minds Thinking alike at about the same time.
I started My Project in November 2015. That Article did not come out until April 2016 so was 'in the Process' at least 90 days prior (typical minimum lead time for a Publication on a Monthly Schedule).
I sent Emails, with photos, to both Ruger and the Distributor. Got Acknowledgement from the Distributor, nothing from Ruger to Date.
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[victorfox]

Oooops, my bad. I was not following this thread and just happened to get the magazine yesterday and said to myself "heck it's the same Chev. is doing"... and came fast find the thread and post here.

I don't know how these things work, but looks like you came first hands down. While they seen to be "talking about" you delivered the goods. I can only congratulate you for this idea and execution and sincerely hope it can do you heap more benefits from your cool -- still -- one-of-a-kind gun.

Best.

[Chev. William]

My primary benefit is a pleasant affordable hobby in my 'retirement years'.
A 1 lb, or 7000 grain, canister of propellant is reasonably priced on a Fixed Retirement Income. With Individual charges running 3 grains or less, down to 1.0 grains, there is A LOT of Shooting in a Pound.
Bullets are a Problem, being that I do not have casting equipment and being of an age when I Value my Physical Integrity that remains. In my youth I did take more 'chances' but was very lucky in that I had few injuries. Some scraped skin on occasion and one Broken Foot from a bad parachute Landing. Later in life I suffered a Fall while working that tore up my ankles and Calf muscles, from which I am Still recovering at this late date.

I have found that Forming Cases for my 'Experiments' is a challenge that I seem to have surmounted for Two Sources of parent brass.

.22 Hornet Cases reform to Longer .25 Stevens type Cases with an overall yield of about 95% finished sized Cases ready for trimming to needed Length, from a formed length of about 1.380".

5.7x28mm FN cases reform to the shorter range of .25 Stevens and .25ACP cases, via a multiple step swaging process, yields about 100% formed Cases of lengths varying form 1.215" to 1.260". These I trim to 1.220 to 1.250" for "6.35x32mmSR"; 1.125" for "6.35x28.6mmSR"; and 1.024" to 1.055" for "6.35x26mmSR" uses (I am mostly triming to 1.055" in the 6.35x26mmSR Experiments as that is the same Case Length as the ".22WMR" cartridge. I am Loading these to 1.350" maximum Overall Length to also match the ".22WMR" cartridge.

Experiments with the 1.024" length will come later, but I have a few loaded to 1.250" length with 50 grain FMJ-RN and 51 grain RFN Lead Bullets already for fit testing.

I am currently trying to get together a Chronograph setup that I can easily carry and set up at my local Commercial Outdoor Shooting Range yet trying to stay within my Budget constraints.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I am Happy to report that my gunsmith completed reaming the chambers in my Ruger 8 shot Cylinder and fitting it to my Frame (checking timing & etc.) so now I have two cylinders completed for my Ruger Single Eight .25ACP Revolver. One for .25ACP cartridges of .620" or less case length, and a second for longer Length ".250ALRM" cartridges and also Shorter Versions from 1.260" case length, and less. This work added $100 to the total costs of this Revolver to date.

I am expecting delivery of a Used Printer for my 'Super Chrony' F1 Master, then perhaps I will be able to measure some velocities out of my 10-5/8" barreled Revolver.

Looking Forward to some Fun Range Time.

I hope Everyone has a SAFE and ENJOYABLE July $th Weekend and Holiday.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Update of My Project:
A Pair of Photos of my Ruger .25ACP Single Eight:
These are Cylinders #1 and #4 of Four Planned cylinders.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/d188c16b-a324-4982-a3a8-9e5006fbfc6b_zpsgzw6diji.jpg
Cylinder #1 on Left is .25ACP chambered. Cylinder #4 on Right is .250ALRM chambered.

http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz316/chevwilliam/My%20Ruger%2025%20Cal%20Revolver/74761463-0a98-4752-ac7e-167975407455_zpstr9njjmw.jpg
Side View of cylinders with Cartridges partially inserted.
The .25ACP has a .905" OAL. The other Cartridge is a .25ALS of .1.125" case length and 1.350" OAL. The cylinders have a Length at the Chambers of 1.415".
A .250ALRM of !.250" case length needs to be loaded to a Maximum OAL of 1.405" to Function in the revolver.

The .25ALRM and .25ALS are made from Hornet Brass Swaged down to .276" Body Diameter and the rims Trimmed to .050" thick by about .308" Diameter to fit the chambers.

The Equivalent Sized Cases made from 5.7x28mm Brass are labeled 6.35x26mmSR, 6.35x28.6mmSR, and 6.35x32mmSR and have rims of about .312"-.314" diameter as Formed.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[victorfox]

There's much talk about "bad accuracy due to free bore". How this affect this particular project of yours?

I also want to suggest the mods to make i sticky, due to the awesomeness, details and because it provides a very cool solution to the .22LR shortage...

[Chev. William]

There's much talk about "bad accuracy due to free bore". How this affect this particular project of yours?

So far i only have experience to comment on the .25ACP in this revolver.

1. The Cylinder length at the Center Line of the .25ACP chamber is ~1.415" and The .25ACP Cartridges are A Maximum of .910" Overall Length, leaving a .505" smooth bore Cylinder throat BEFORE the Bullet transitions from the Cylinder to the Barrel Forcing Cone and into the rifling.

2. This is my First Long Barrel Revolver and it still feels slightly "Muzzle Heavy" to my hands. Previous revolver and pistol experience ranged from about 2" long to about 6" long in both Semi-Autos and Revolvers in .22LR, .32, .38, .44-40, and 45ACP Calibers.

3. At Present I average about a 3" to 4" diameter "Pattern" centered upon the Point of Aim at about 7 yards. This is about 50 Shots over time in each target. Interestingly, it seems both the Factory 50 Grain FMJ and Hand load 63 grain Lead bullets (slightly Hotter Loads) seem to impact about the Same Point of Aim, but this preliminary only, I have not fired many of the 63 grain loads yet. It is probable that the 'Pattern Size Will decrease over time with more Practice, my "Hold" will surely get Better.

[/QUOTE]I also want to suggest the mods to make i sticky, due to the awesomeness, details and because it provides a very cool solution to the .22LR shortage...[/QUOTE]

That is a Very Nice Complement, Thank You for suggesting that the thread be made 'Sticky'.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Chronograph results of Load Testing on Tuesday August 16th 2016.
At “Angeles Shooting Ranges”.

Instrument used: ‘Super Chrony F1 Master’ with printer.

Test Firearm:
Ruger New Model Convertible Single Eight in 25ACP and .25ALRM Cartridge Chambering eight shot Revolver with 10-5/8” barrel (~12” Muzzle to Breech/Recoil Face.

Test Setup:
Positioned on “Handgun Firing line in front of Permanent Target Frame about 5 yards from long Bench Type Firing line. Bench height about 38 inches.
A Stool was used for the Testing as a Seat for the ‘Shooter’.
Chronograph wsa Set up on a Tripod about 5 feet forward of the Firing Line. The Remote readout and printer were positioned on the Firing line bench.
The Printer and Chronograph were operated on Internal Batteries.
Altitude = ~ 1,680 feet Above Mean Sea Level, Temperature ~100 Degrees F.

Test Results:
Comparison run employing “Privi Partisan” (PPU) Factory Loaded (Made in Serbia) .25ACP 50Grain FMJ-RN ammunition manufactured under CIP Regulations and Controls.

Technical Information
· Caliber: 25 ACP
· Bullet Weight: 50 Grains
· Bullet Style: Full Metal Jacket
· Case Type: Brass

Ballistics Information:
· Muzzle Velocity: 771 fps
· Muzzle Energy: 66 ft. lbs.

Raw results(fps)
874.8; 771.8; 788.3; 913.1; 711.7; 725.1;778.3; 733.7;
742.3; 791.8; 706.4; 618.0; 691.1; 733.2; 745.7.
Max. = 913.1; Min. = 618.0; Average = 755.02, or ~755fps.

755/771 = 97.9% of stated Factory Performance (out of a 2” test Barrel) when fired from a Revolver with a 10-58” barrel. (-2.1%)

Hand Loads Tested:
#1. 50 grain FMJ-RN (Rem.), PPU Brass, WSP Primer, 2.7 grains of “Power Pistol” Propellant;
1118; 1220; 1170; 1278; 1190; 1273; 1130; 1189;
1201; 1302; 1244; 1195; 1136; 1213; 1188.
Max. = 1302; Min. = 1118; Average = 1203.1, or ~1203fps.
Calculated: 1302fps @ 17079psi and Actual 1203fps: -8.2%

#2. 63 grain Lead FN (Hunters supply), GFI Ni Brass, CCI SP Primer, Various Charges of “Bulleye” Propellant.
A. 1.36 +/-0.05 grains: 916.1; 876.8; 1042; error;955.5.
Max. = 1042; Min. = 876.8; Average = 947.6, or ~947fps.
Calculated: 937fps @ 14145psi and Actual 947fps; +1.1%
B. 1.39 +/-0.05 grains: 1162; 1075; 1060; 1150; 1104. (no Tape).
. : 1174 (case fail); 1056; 1030; 1129; 1288.
Max. = 1288; Min. = 1030; Average = 1122.8, or ~ 1123fps.
Calculated: 991fps @ 14808psi and Actual 1123fps: +13.3%
C. 1.43 +/-0.05 grains: error; 1164; 1179; 1149, FTF.
Max. =1179; Min. = 1149; Average =1164.0, or ~ 1164fps.
Calculated: 1009fps @ 15492psi and Actual 1164fps: +15.3%

NOTE: 1.46 grain data not taken/recorded.

D. 1.50 +/-0.05 grains: error; error; 1130; error; error.
Max. = 1130; Min. = 1130; Average = 1130, or ~ 1130fps.
Calculated: 1045fps @ 16925psi and Actual 1130fps: +8.1%
E. 1.53 +/-0.05 grains: 1062; 1070; 1028; 1066; 1043.
Max. = 1070; Min. = 1028; Average = 1953,8, or ~1054fps.
Calculated: 1063fps @ 17674psi and Actual 1054fps: -0.85%
F. 1.56 +/-0.05 grains: 1262; 1030; 1075; error; FTF.
Max. = 1262; Min. = 1030; Average = 1122.3, or ~ 1122fps.
Calculated: 1080fps @ 18445psi and Actual 1122fps: +3.9%
G. 1.60 +/-0.05 grains: error; FTF; 1354; 1138; 1210.
Max. = 1354; Min. = 1138; Average = 1234.0, or ~ 1234fps.
Calculated: 1097fps @ 19239psi and Actual 1234fps: +12.5%
H. 1.63 +/-0.05 grains: 1201; 1368; 1316; 1190; 1151.
Max. = 1368; Min. = 1151; Average = 1245.2, or ~ 1245fps.
Calculated: 1114fps @ 20058psi and Actual 1245fps: +11.8%
I. 1.67 +/-0.05 grains: 1239; 1182; 1231; 1096; 1278.
Max. = 1278; Min. = 1096; Average = 1205.2, or ~ 1205fps.
Calculated: 1131 fps @ 20696psi and Actual 1205fps: +6.5%
J. 1.70 +/-0.05 grains: 1297; 1375; 1243; 1238; 1329.
Max. = 1375; Min. = 1238; Average = 1296.4, or ~ 1296fps.
Calculated: 1147fps @ 21760psi and Actual 1296fps: +13%
K, 1.73 +/-0.05 grains: 1235; 1338: 1209; FTF; FTF.
Max. = 1338; Min. = 1209; Average = 1260.6, or ~ 1261fps.
Calculated: 1164fps @ 22849psi and Actual 1261fps: +8.3%
L. 1.77 +/-0.05 grains: 1229; 1257; 1232; 1289; 1276.
Max. = 1289; Min. = 1229; Average = 1256.6, or ~ 1257fps.
Calculated: 1180fps @ 23563psi and Actual 1257fps: +6.5%
M. 1.80+/-0.05 grains: 1266; 1268; 1214; 1241; 1242.
Max. = 1268; Min. = 1214; Average = 1246.2, or ~ 1246fps.
Calculated: 1196fps @ 24502psi and Actual 1244fps: +4.2%

NOTE: 1.84 grain Data not taken/recorded.

N. 1.87 +/-0.05 grains: 1311; 1275; 1175; 1214; Jam (not fired).
Max. = 1311; Min. = 1175; Average = 1243.7, or ~ 1244fps.
Calculated:1227 fps @ 26357psi and Actual 1244fps: +1.4%



3. 50 grain FMJ-RN (Rem.); GFI Ni Brass; CCI SP primer Propellant compare:

A. 1.50 +/-0.05 grains:”Bullseye”; 1188; FTF; error; 1179; 1278.
Max. = 1278; Min. = 1179; Average = 1215.0, or ~ 1215fps.

B. 1.50 +/-0.05 grains: “BE-86”: 1107; 1381; 996.2; 1147, error.
Max. = 1381; Min. =996.2; Average = 1157,8, or ~ 1158fps.
Conclusion: for the Same Charge Weight BE-86 Generates a lower Peak Pressure than Bullseye under the same conditions.

SUMMARY

Recorded data Results seems to vary from Calculated Values by Bilateral amounts. It is probable the sample size used is not adequate. It is also probable that the Charge Weights vary due to the Imprecise Scale used for the Charge Weight Resolution desired.
Due to the Low Value Charge Weights, in the range of 1.3 to 2.7 grains, and the marked Resolution of the Scale used, 0.1 grain, the interpolation of charges to 0.01 grain +/-0.05 grain is less than the observed variation in measured performance.

The instrument used has a measuring base of about 1 foot and four digit readout resolution but the full Accuracy and Resolution Specifications are not known at this time.

The factory Ammunition tested for comparison measured about 2.1% lower out of this 10-5/8” barrel compared to factory Test Barrel length of 2”. This is quite low compared to similar Barrel lengths tested By “Ballistics By The Inch” using a Single Shot Handgun with a Locked Breech and sealed length Barrel (no cylinder gap). They found a 10” barrel yielded Velocities about 28% increase in measured MV.

How much The Ambient temperature, and the temperature of the Instrument, which was in direct Sunlight, affected These Results is unknown at this time.

Overall, The confidence level in these results is low due to the reasons state in the summary but they ARE the Results obtained and recorded.

A hot day at the Shooting Range for a friend and I enjoying the 'frustration of "error" displays and FTF occasions.
I think I may have one chamber in my .25ACP cylinder too deep, more Work is needed to be sure.

Each of us "Hit' the Screens once, so we had to Patch/Jury Rig the pieces together to continue our testing. we were there form about 1000 to about 1600 then packed up and went to a restaurant for a Late Lunch and about a gallon of Iced Tea each.

Later today I will be Cleaning up my Revolvers that we fired yesterday, but I will wait for things to cool some, another Hot day here.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Further thoughts and comments on "the first Range results with a chronograph" post of August 17th post:

A. The Comparison of "Published Technical Specifications" of factory .25ACP, which are Based upon testing Using a 2" long Barrel, and the chronograph Results of firing in a Revolver with a 10-5/8" barrel hint that the loss from the Cylinder Gap venting may result performance similarity between the Two conditions as the Percentage difference seems to be less than the Expected Variations between Factory Ammunition Lots.

B. The reported "hand load #1" (2.7 grains of Power Pistol and 50 grain FMJ bullet) seems to hint at a 7.6% drop between Calculated and Measured Performance. This is Probably due to the "QuickLOAD" software apparently not having an adjustment for loss from the Cylinder gap. Perhaps using 11" for the Barrel length instead of 12" would mostly compensate for the Gap 'error'?

C. The reported Hand load(s) #2 (Various ladder Bullseye charge weights and 63 grain Lead bullets) appear to indicate a gain in velocity for the Actual performance ranging up to about +15% in one case (nominal 1.43 grain charge) and ranging down to a low of -0.85% (nominal 1.53 grain charge). Perhaps the difference between FMJ and Lead bullets filing of the Cylinder Throat, Throat to Forcing Cone, and final Barrel dimensions is in play here.

D. The Ladder Sequence seems to indicate a charge of Bullseye of around 1.77 or 1.80 grains yields the most uniform velocities measured (ES of 60 and 54 fps respectively) with this bullet in this Case size.

E. However, there is still the Problems I have in Accurately measuring charges weights at 0.01 grain interpolations of these low charge Weights (under 2.0 grains total weight). Normal procedures to measure small weights is to use a Scale with a resolution at least four times Finer than the the weight increment desired. in this case 0.01 grain accuracy would indicate a needed Resolution of .0025 grains or Finer.

F. For the time being (last two weeks of August) I am not able to do any more testing due to the Chronograph Screens needing replacements; which need to be ordered when I again have some Discretionary Spending funds available.

Perhaps I will be able to proceed in September, but that is 'Iffy" as I have Fresh Bills that will again come due in September that were not needed in July or August (example: House Earthquake and Liability Insurance renewals).

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

I now have my replacement Sky Screen Parts but have delayed scheduling a trip to the range as i am still loading some new "Ladder Sets for the testing".

Additionally, today I paid for a Used Ruger New Model .32 H&R Magnum Single Six with a 5-5/8" barrel. It will come with a Holster as part of the consignment Sale. Now I need to Wait out the ten day State Imposed waiting period before I can Take Possession.

I have already had conversations with my Gunsmith about adapting a Cylinder to allow Shooting .32 Long Colt Cartridges in it (of .930" length and using Heeled Bullets).
This is NOT the S&W diameters!
This IS the smaller Colt diameter Cases.
My intent is to be able to Interchange Cylinders for the two sizes of case diameters and use the same barrel for Both.

Since Ruger informs me that they DO NOT do custom changes to Cartridge nor calibers, this will be a 'exercise in Custom Gunsmithing' for my gunsmith and myself.

A. We believe we Can adapt a .22WMR Six shot Cylinder to fit the .32 H&R frame.
B. We believe we will need to machine the Cylinder rear side to adapt it to the .32 LC Cartridge.
C. We believe we may need to machine the FRONT of the .32 H&R Cylinder to match the other cylinder so the Forcing Cone can be made to work with both.
D. The revolver will also need some machining on the Barrel to get it to fit Both cylinders. Possibly setting it back and re-cutting the Forcing Cone.

I also Dropped off my third .22WMR 8-shot Cylinder along with Two reamers to chamber it for ".25ALS/6.35x28.6mmSR" but with the Rim rebates opened to take thinned (to .050" thick nominal) Hornet Rims of .348"-.350" Diameter.

Also i confirmed my order at PT&G for my .25 Magnum Auto Finishing chamber reamer.
This is a .25ACP Diameter Cases of 1.055" case Length. they estimate a few weeks wait yet.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Found out that the 6.35x28.6mmSR Reamers I bought are Resizing Reamers intended to cut Undersize for later Reaming with A Finish Chamber Reamer to final size.

Monday, just before the First Presidential Debate, I received my New ".25 Magnum Auto Finish Chamber Reamer". This is Similar to 6.35x26mmSR cartridge also. I will Verify the dimensions later.

The New PTG ".25 Magnum Auto. FIN Reamer does cut a usable Chamber, i made a "dummy chamber in a Blank die body i had on hand.
The Reamer, along with a Rim counterbore Tool to fit the .22 Hornet Parent Rim diameter, my Dummy chamber, and a Replacement 8-Shot Ruger .22-MAG Cylinder for Rework went to My gunsmith and are in his line to get done.

In the same Batch, I took a .32 LC Finish chamber reamer and a Used .22LR Ruger 6-Shot to be re-cut in .32 LC; I am talking the OLD Colt Cartridge of .318" body diameter. This will be reviewed to see if I like the Chambers then, if Acceptable, be Reworked to fit a .32 H&R Magnum Ruger Single Six I recently Acquired as A Used Revolver Purchase.

Today I placed Orders with PT&G to get a "6.35x28.6mmSR Stewart" Replaceable Pilot Finish Chamber Reamer, Two .25 Cal. Pilot Drilled Blank Die Bodies, Two .30 Cal. Pilot Drilled Blank die bodies. and sets of Bushings for .25 Cal. and .30 Cal. to use in reaming the Die Bodies.

Now I Wait. Patiently I Hope.

Best Results,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

RE: the .32 LC cylinder project; I 'switched' cylinders with my gunsmith before he started cutting. the Current .32 LC project cylinder is a used .22-Mag.Stainless steel one.

The Used Blued Steel .22 LR Cylinder will be re-cut to .32 Automatic sizes, keeping the "S&W family" Cylinders all blued and making the "Colt family" Cylinders from and in Stainless Steel 'white' to Visually differentiate them.

This projected .32 Auto cylinder will have a throat suitable for the Factory Loaded bullets and will be a short 'smooth bore' segment before the bullets transition to the forcing cone of the actual barrel.

If these two cylinders turn out Good, then I will consider having the Revolver and original cylinder reworked to make all three, and possible other future cylinders, Interchangeable in the Frame/Barrel combination.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

PS: Revolver Cylinders apper to be made with None-Tapered,or Straight Cylinder, Chambers insted of the Tapered ones used Semi-auto. pistols and Rifles. so this is what I hope to have done to my experimental cylinders. Chev. William

[Chev. William]

It seems the Project items at my Gunsmith will be on "Hold" until very Late November as my gunsmith is starting a three week Movie Location Shoot Job after Friday.

At least he will be getting Good Pay for the three weeks.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My gunsmith is back in the shop since last Friday but has to work down the backlog before accepting more work or doing anything on my "back burner low cost" projects.

i did receive the PT&G "Premium 6.32x28.5mmSR Finish Chamber Reamer" and will take in. when his backlog is down some, along with a .22-Mag 8-shot cylinder to be bored and chambered with it. This will be Called my "Number Three cylinder" to fit in my series of .25 Caliber 8-shot cylinders for my Ruger Single Eight Revolver.

To Recap:
"Number One" is the .25ACP cylinder with the 'Semi-Auto' chambers.
"Number Two" is the .25Magnum Auto (1.055" cases).
"Number Four" is the .250ALRM (1.250" cases).
and a Projected "Number Five" will be a .25ACP with Straight Cylinder, rather than Tapered,
Chambers. This is an experiment to see if it yields better fired case shapes. the current tapered chambers yield a Ring bulged case near the Web to Wall junction.

End of year bills and a Failed Refrigerator that needed a new replacement have curtailed none necessary Spending the last two months and may Continue for the next two months also.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

This Thread's Subject is carried forward in two separate threads on This forum:
- First one on "My Ruger Single Eight in .25ACP . . .".
and
- Second one on "My Ruger Single six in .32 . . ." .
Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Chev. William]

My Handgun experiments / Projects have expanded again:
= First is "my Ruger Single Eight in .25ACP" and similar wildcats.
= Second is "My Ruger Single Six in .32H&R" and .32 Long Colt and similar Cartridges.
= Third is 'converting a Ruger .22LR Standard Auto Pistol to .25ACP'.
= There are others in planning but must await funds currently not available' Also Rifle projects already started but hanging up with my gunsmith not having available time to work in them.
Chev. William

[Drm50]

I'm to old to mess with it but I always thought a Ruger auto converted to 32acp would be a good project. I had a High Standard 380 that was similar to a HD Mil 22. It shot well and I was always going to put adj sights on it but
ended up trading it. The jump from 22 to 38 is pretty drastic for guys that want a little more in a field pistol than a 22 but don't need a 38sp.

[Willbird]

I'm to old to mess with it but I always thought a Ruger auto converted to 32acp would be a good project. I had a High Standard 380 that was similar to a HD Mil 22. It shot well and I was always going to put adj sights on it but
ended up trading it. The jump from 22 to 38 is pretty drastic for guys that want a little more in a field pistol than a 22 but don't need a 38sp.

I seem to recall an old article where the author converted a Ruger Mark I to 32 S&W long for wadcutter ammunition. He had to add a weight to the back end of the bolt to provide enough mass.

Bill

[Chev. William]

It is The Day After Easter, 2019, And I am patiently waiting for my gunsmith to get time to work on completing my last two custom 8-shot cylinder Modifications.
These are the ones for .25ACP and .25ALR with the 'Tight' chamber diameters to avoid the annular Bulge on fired cases.

The weather around here is getting "Better' now since the Winter Storms have past and winds are beginning to drop again. I did get 500 ea once fired .25ACP cases cleaned and decapped in preparation for inspection, sizing, and reloading.
The Majority, about 250, are marked "R-P" with the remainder in several markings including PPU, AGUILA, G.F.L., WIN, W-W, CBC, FC, HORNADY and even two marked HRTRS.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Friday, April 26th and I now have about 975 .25ACP once fired Brass from "Diamond K" that I have Tumbled to clean range dirt off of and then decapped and sorted by head stamp.
This is all "Diamond K' had in stock this month.
The Majority are R-P (about 500) followed By Aguila (about 120), WIN (about 80), PPU( about 70) and a mix of other Head stamps.
Most seem, based on sample measurements, seem to be mouth expanded to about .282" diameter with the web/bases measuring about .278".
I attribute this to the taper in Semi-Automatic Pistol chambers and the Blow-back action design. I found there is also a Slight Annular Bulge in the Wall just ahead of the Web.
It appear that I will need to run All the Cases through a ,25ACP sizing die up to the Rim to restore them to useful shape and size.
I believe I have, or at least had one sizing die that will bring them to .2775" diameter; which will allow me to shoot them in my Revolver or Pistol without so much enlargement upon firing; as my Chambers are .2795" parallel wall.

Chev. William