Buying new molds, many questions...

[oldskeetshooter]

I have been casting, casually, for 25+ years, which means nothing other than I have been casting 25+ years. I am, recently, retired so I am attempting to become more educated about, serious casting for accuracy.

About a year ago, I purchased 9 Lyman, handgun, molds. They are for .38/.357, .44 Spec/.44Mag, .45 ACP, .40/10MM, .45 Colt/.454 Casull/.460 S&W.

All, bullets, in .44, .45 Colt/ .38/357 come out of the mold undersized. Alloy does not really matter, temps have little effect, neither does quenching or heat treating. The max diameter of any .358 mold is .3575, .44 mold is .429, .45 Colt is .4515. .45ACP is .452 and .40/10mm cast .402.

This leads me to believe that the scuttlebutt about Lyman molds is true. They inherently cast undersized. It does seem kind of strange that the molds for auto pistols cast OK, whereas the revolver molds cast undersized, even with the same alloys at the same temps.

I am considering Accurate molds as folks rave about them. So now, the questions, or, more of giving info in order to gain an answers.


3 different revolvers, in each caliber have good cylinder cone to bore diameter ration. They do vary, up to, .001 between guns. When ordering the Accurate molds, what diameter should I request? Would it be the "Largest" bullet required between the particular caliber firearms +.001? I am asking this because I don't know how much a bullet can be resized without distortion or excess stress on the equipment? I know that Tom, from Accurate Molds, states the tolerances are -.000 to +.002. Now, the S&W .460 does like larger bullets, those sized to .454 shoot very accurately. Should I order a .455 mold even with the +.002 tolerance built into the mold? That would mean sizing a, possibly, .457 down to .453 for the smallest bored .45 Colt. Is sizing .004 too much?
Are the larger mold blocks preferred for the larger bore revolvers? Do most folks find Iron, brass or aluminum preferable?
I know this is a lot of questions in one post, but I figured that I would get, ALL, the Q&A out of the way.
Any and all help, based on experience, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks..

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

That is a lot of questions.
I'd recommend starting with one gun or one caliber first.
Get some sample boolits. and get some shootin' in.
experience is the best teacher, the gun will tell you what it wants.

OK, with that said, when it comes to ordering a mold, it's ideal to get a mold that will make a boolit the right size, so minimal sizing is required.

Now as to Accurate Molds. From my experience and the reports I've read on this forum, Tom makes molds that are "SPOT ON". I ordered a 41 cal WC mold, that I wanted to drop .412 with COWW alloy, and that is exactly what I got. DO a search for Accurate molds on this forum and I'll bet you'll find the same reviews time and time again.

As to NOE molds, I have about a dozen of them, excellent workmanship. FYI, I have found them to cast a boolit about 0.0005 to 0.0015 larger then spec'd when I use COWW and my techniques. For instance, I have a NOE 311299, it drops a boolit .312 with my techniques. This isn't a bad thing. It's just something that's good to know when ordering a mold, especially if you are ordering a 30 cal mold, as NOE offers his 30 cal molds in many sizes up to .316 (Yes I had one that big, a 316299, it dropped at .3175 which was too large for my Krag (slugged at .3145) and wished I had bought a 314299 for that gun).

Now as to Lyman molds. The sizes you are mentioning are about the correct size lyman advertises. While it seems that today's consensus is to shoot over size boolits, Lyman has and still does make molds for standard sizes. I realize you didn't mention which Lyman molds you have, But let's say you are casting a Lyman 429421 and it drops a .429 that is the size as advertised. It's not a bad thing, it's just a good thing to know when ordering a mold, yes I said that before. I suspect many guns will shoot standard size boolits just fine, even though nearly all of us want to make ammo with fat boolits.
GOOD LUCK,
Jon

[garrisonjoe]

I'd find another shooter who is a good caster, and let him make a hundred or so with one of your molds for which you have a sample. Have him use some of his alloy that "casts well." That would check your technique (or your alloy) as being faulty or not.

New Lyman rifle molds I have are casting right on their named diameter when using wheelweight composition alloys.

I find it rather surprising that you say your alloy is not making any difference in the as cast diameter. That would fly in the face of hundred years of practical experience and metallurgical data.

For a quick fix, I'd check your tin content in alloy, and if it's not already at 1.5%, I'd sweeten the alloy with some more tin. One of the better ways to ensure you are getting all the diameter your mold can produce.

And I, like Jon above, tend to favor Accurate molds for pistol bullets.

Good luck, GJ

[jmort]

"About a year ago, I purchased 9 Lyman, handgun, molds. They are for .38/.357, .44 Spec/.44Mag, .45 ACP, .40/10MM, .45 Colt/.454 Casull/.460 S&W."

If you powdercoat the bullets you can add about .002" which might get you what you want and then slowly add additional molds. I have six Accurate Molds, and they will drop about right where you spec the mold.

[runfiverun]

I tend to favor accurate molds for everything.
if the lyman numbers were designation of diameter their 314299 would be 314 not 311. [my older one is, my newer one isn't]


since you have the lyman molds in hand I would start with one mold and one gun.
decide if that gun needs a little more diameter or not then lap the mold out a couple of thousandths to fit the gun.
directions can be found in 2-3 stickies here. [weet method/leementing]
I haven't had to do that to any of my lyman molds, except the ones I have bought in the last few years.

[oldskeetshooter]

3, of the 9, Lyman molds cast to specified diameter +.001 give or take a half. No problems with them. When I wrote "Alloy doesn't really matter" I meant no matter which alloy I try, the bullets are still undersized. For example the 358156 casts .3565-.3575 depending on alloy. The 429421 casts .4270-4285 depending on alloy. The 452424 casts .450-4515 depending on alloy. My next door neighbor casts his own an is about as knowledgeable as I am. He tried the molds, with the same result.

Again, the other new molds, for autos are great. I did call Lyman about the issue and told them that 3 molds were ok, but 6 were not. Of course I get the "try another alloy, we design our molds for #2 Lyman." Of course, I told that that I tried #2 alloy and the boolits were still small by over .0005. There reply was "Send the molds back with samples of 3 different alloys. If we find anything out of the ordinary, we will replace the molds".

With 6 of 9 new molds casting small, I am not sure that I will get the same size molds back. I have 2 old Ideal molds that are perfect, I'm not sure about the new Lyman stuff. QC just ain't what it used to be and I understand that. That is why I am considering the "Accurate Mold" thing. At least those molds are bored, on a lathe, and not cut with a cherry that may, or may not, have been sharpened 3 times.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If you are up to it, as R5R mentions, the WEET method is a pretty good way to enlarge a Lyman mold, but as I mentioned, you need to know what your gun/s want before you do that ...or before you order a mold from another source.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?257858-Expanding-a-boolit-mould-the-quot-WEET-quot-method-(In-parts)

[oldskeetshooter]

If you are up to it, as R5R mentions, the WEET method is a pretty good way to enlarge a Lyman mold, but as I mentioned, you need to know what your gun/s want before you do that ...or before you order a mold from another source.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?257858-Expanding-a-boolit-mould-the-quot-WEET-quot-method-(In-parts)

I'll give that a try. One of my molds, that casts small, is the same mold that he modified. If the, what appears to be 09-13 stamp, on the mold, is the production date, mine appears to be the same month and year.

[Cowboy_Dan]

In answer to a question in #3, I regularly size some of my boolits from .434 to .430. They shoot just fine, the crimp groove shrinks a little, but it's still there. As long as the groove is deep enough, it should not be wiped out going from .457 to .453. However, the more you have to size, the greater the chance of sizing non-concentrically.