Factory 357 magnum midrange ammunition?

[Naphtali]

I understand there are several ammunition makers who currently offer 357 magnum midrange ammunition. I suspect such ammunition might be more useful to use in my S&W 640 snubnose than full power 357 ammunition. Please identify specific 357 magnum midrange by what ordering information I would need. So far, I cannot make heads or tails of things beyond "357 Magnum" and type-weight of bullet loaded.

[bangerjim]

Why not cast & load your own? And not have to rely on expensive factory stuff?

I cast and load 38SPL and 357MAG loads and weights all over the map to whatever recoil and performance I want. And I do NOT rely on some marketing bozo at an ammo maker to 2nd guess what I really want.

Problem solved.

bangerjim

[dragon813gt]

Pretty sure 99% of people here reload at a minimum. And the majority cast their own. What's factory ammo?????? ;)

[Rustyleee]

I have a S&W 640 and find that the best loads to feed it are .38 Special +P. I can't make it through a full box of magnums before the web of my hand becomes extremely sore.

[Mica_Hiebert]

You can get 158 grain blazer and american eagle i dont imagine either of those being realy hot.

[jmort]

Federal Premium Personal Defense Ammunition is an excellent choice for law enforcement agencies as well as concealed carry permit holders. The unique center-post design of the Hydra-Shok Hollow Point delivers controlled expansion while the notched jacket provides efficient energy transfer for maximum penetration.

These personal defense loads feature increased muzzle velocity and energy compared to standard loads, the penetration and stopping power of Premium bullets and reduced recoil. This ammunition is new production, non-corrosive, in boxer primed, reloadable brass cases.

Technical Information

Muzzle Velocity: 1300 fps
Muzzle Energy: 490 ft. lbs.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/203065/federal-premium-personal-defense-reduced-recoil-ammunition-357-magnum-130-grain-hydra-shok-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-20



Tactical Short Barrel Lower Recoil Low Flash 357 Magnum Ammo - 158 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point
(1,100fps/M.E. 424 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round BoxTypical full power 357 magnum loads offer several tactical problems for use in self defense and duty applications, especially when used in the shorter/lighter revolvers that are typical of concealed, defensive and duty carry. First, the muzzle flash can be blinding, especially from short barrels. Second, felt recoil can be a life-threatening drawback if fast follow-up shots are required. Third, the level of report can be deafening and cause permanent hearing loss, especially if fired indoors.

S&W mod. 340PD 1-7/8 inch barrel -1,015 fps (361 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 66 2-1/2-inch barrel -1,097 fps (422 ft. lbs.)

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=105

[Scharfschuetze]

Pretty sure 99% of people here reload at a minimum.

Many people, including myself, prefer to use factory ammo in their CCW handgun. Perhaps this is the reason for the request.

I think the suggestion by Rustylee for +P 38 Special ammo is probably your best option if your are looking for a compromise between performance and recoil in a factory product.

At one time my PD issued Winchester 357 Magnum Silver Tip ammo due to its 145 grain aluminum clad bullet that was in the neighborhood of what you are looking for. I don't know what the status of that load is now as I haven't used it since the mid 80s. Its recoil was noticeably less than our previous full magnum load, although it shot below the sights a bit in my Model 65 (fixed sight) S&W.

[winelover]

Federal Critical Defense 125 Flex Tip is what I carry in my short barreled 357 snubbie. Meaning to try CCI/Speer 357Mag 135 Gold Dot Short Barreled Load.

Winelover

[Ola]

Heh, for sure "midrange" load here is not the same as factory midrange load.

For me the regular 158 gr factory load is midrange. The real .357 MAGNUM -loads have heavier bullet.. 190 gr or heavier..

[historicfirearms]

I like the Winchester 158 grain hollow points. The 125 grain loads are way more stout. I shoot these in a lightweight snubnose S&W for self defense loads.

[Paul105]

Why not just use .38 Special +P ammo. Buffalo Bore will most likely be closest to "midrange" .357s. As an added advantage, you will get more positive case ejection with the shorter .38 case.

Here's a link to some .38 special +P ammo that is avail -- again, Buffalo Bore will most likely be the upper end-- others velocity claims may be a bit optimistic in a snub nose revolver.

http://www.midwayusa.com/s?usersearchquery=38+special+%2bp&itemsperpage=40&statuses=200

FWIW,

Paul

[Joni Lynn]

Here's a link to one reduced 357.
http://www.midwayusa.com/low-recoil/br?cid=22211
Remington used to list a reduced velocity 357 load but I don't see it now.
Best wishes

[str8wal]

Please identify specific 357 magnum midrange by what ordering information I would need.

Most ammunition makers indicate the muzzle velocity on their packaging. A full on 357 with a 158 grain jacketed bullet will run around 1,500 fps, whereas 38+P loadings run around 1,000. A "midrange" load would be somewhere inbetween.

[Paul105]

OP is using a "snubby". No way you will get any where close to 1,500 fps with a 158gr in a 2" bbl. Most likely won't get it in most .357s revolvers regardless of bbl length.

Here are some load I've chronoed in my 340 & 360 S&W both 1 7/8" bbls.










1.9"

185
LFNGC
14.7
Lil'Gun
1,022.50
fps



1.9"

158
CSWC
13.5
H-2400
1,074.50
fps


1.9"

158
JHP - XTP
13.5
H-2400
1,009.00
fps


1.9"

158
LRNFP
9.6
Blue Dot
1,019.50
fps


1.9"

158
RJHP
9.6
Blue Dot
945.50
fps











1.9"

158
LSWHP +P
.38
Rem Fact
752.50
fps


1.9"

130
FMJRN
.38
Am Eagle
680.00
fps


1.9"

130
Hydra-Shok
.357
Fed Fact
1,159.00
fps


1.9"

180
LWFN
.357
Fed Fact
905.00
fps











BUFFALO BORE .38 SPECIAL +P FROM A SNUBBY WILL RUN RIGHT AT 1,000 FPS +- -- Actual velocity from BB Owner's personal guns.

FWIW,

Paul

[jmort]

Heavy 357 Magnum Ammo - 158 gr. J.H.C. (1,475fps/M.E. 763 ft. lbs.)

1. 3 inch S&W J frame
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1398 fps

2. 4 inch S&W L frame Mt. Gun
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Jacketed Hollow Point = 1485 fps

​That is pretty close

[str8wal]

OP is using a "snubby". No way you will get any where close to 1,500 fps with a 158gr in a 2" bbl.

Nobody said he would, but it is an indication of how one compares to another. Nothing more. Jeesh!

[Paul105]

That's not typical factory .357 Mag Ammo. The smaller "botique" makers like Buffalo Bore (which I suspect you quoted above), Double Tap, Underwood offer ballistics well above typical factory ammo (whose stated velocities are, shall we say optimistic).

Based on the OPs question, I doubt he's shooting any of the specialty makers ammo.

Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to give the OP viable options that meet his criteria.

Paul

[jmort]

Nor was I trying to be argumentative. I was just responding, without agrument, to your statement: "No way you will get any where close to 1,500 fps with a 158gr in a 2" bbl. Most likely won't get it in most .357s revolvers regardless of bbl length."

[paul h]

Another vote for 38 sp +P. Snubbies and 357 ammo is the most painful handgun combination I've ever shot. I only run 38 sp loads through my Taurus 605.

[jmort]

I don't like shooting .38 Special ammunition out of my snub .357's
I would shoot .357 158 grain RF factory Cowboy ammunition before I shot .38 special. My opinion. You will get great penetration and very little recoil. The meplat should work well. I will just continue using/shooting reloading "low-range" .357 mag with large meplats, including wadcutters for self-defense.

[Petrol & Powder]

OK, I had to go back and read the OP but I think I've got it. He wants a mid-range .357 mag but he specifies that he is using a S&W 640.
What the OP seems to want is not a mid-range .357 mag load but rather a short barrel .357 mag load, if I'm reading it correctly.

Having played with snubnose revolvers for a long time, including some .357 mag models, I tend to agree with the 38 Special +P suggestions, if factory ammunition is the criteria. A handloaded .357 mag could probably be tailored to a short barreled revolver but a factory loaded .357 mag that is optimized for a short barrel may be difficult to find.

A 640 chambered in .357mag can certainly handle that load and I've shot my share of them. There's no doubt that the magnum will push that bullet faster even out of that short barrel but at the expense of flash, recall and noise. Lots of noise! If a chronograph or block of gelatin is your measuring stick, the .357 mag will probably win but if actual performance out of a 2 1/8" barrel is the goal, I get a little more skeptical that .357 mag is that much better than 38 +P. Now if we move up to a 3" or longer barrel, the .357mag wins hands down.

I'll echo the suggestion for the Speer 135 gr Gold Dot Hollow point "short barrel" load. If you can get that 135 gr bullet to shoot close enough to point of aim with a fixed sighted short barrel - that would be an excellent choice. That factory round has a good track record out of 2" barrel and while not .357 mag level it is a good solid +P factory round.



154449

I think this is going to be a situation where the gap between 38 +P and .357 mag is going to be rather large if one is confined to factory ammunition but a handloader can likely find something that fits that need.

[jmort]

"...a factory loaded .357 mag that is optimized for a short barrel may be difficult to find."


No you can order it today, and it is still a fair amount of juice, but not too much, and exactly what is called for.



Tactical Short Barrel Lower Recoil Low Flash 357 Magnum Ammo - 158 gr. Jacketed Hollow Point
(1,100fps/M.E. 424 ft. lbs.) - 20 Round Box
Typical full power 357 magnum loads offer several tactical problems for use in self defense and duty applications, especially when used in the shorter/lighter revolvers that are typical of concealed, defensive and duty carry. First, the muzzle flash can be blinding, especially from short barrels. Second, felt recoil can be a life-threatening drawback if fast follow-up shots are required. Third, the level of report can be deafening and cause permanent hearing loss, especially if fired indoors.

S&W mod. 340PD 1-7/8 inch barrel -1,015 fps (361 ft. lbs.)
S&W mod. 66 2-1/2-inch barrel -1,097 fps (422 ft. lbs.)

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=105 (https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=105)

[str8wal]

I'm sure that stuff works just fine, jmort. But, at a buck and a half a pop it might be worth the OP investing in a Lee reloading kit and doing a similar thing at home. For a lighter 357 Mag I load 4.8 grains of Titegroup behind a 158 JHP. It is essentially a 38+P load in 357 Mag brass. I also prefer to not shoot short cases in mag chambers if I can avoid it.

[jmort]

^^^ I completely agree. O/P wanted factory ammunition and this is exactly what he asked for. I will stick with my mid/low range .357 solids, no moving parts, with big meplats in my .357 snubs. I will take two holes, one in and one out. But I get that some want factory and to each their own. My 170 grain wadcutter at 900 FPS in a small snub is a 306 ft lb freight train with a max meplat.

[Petrol & Powder]

Allow me to add that the OP has previously stated in other threads that he has some physical problems with recoil and that information affected my recommendation.
If given the choice, I would tend to go with 158gr HP in a 38/357 short barreled revolver.
I am a huge fan of the old "FBI" load [158gr LSWCHP +P] in a short barreled revolver but I intentionally avoided that recommendation for the OP based on his prior comments concerning the pain induced by recoil.
The .357 mag load listed by jmort looks very promising if recoil wasn't a factor.

[jmort]

In my 17 ounce LCR I imagine the BuffaloBore "low recoil" would be "snappy"
I would therefore think .357 158 grain RF "cowboy" factory ammunition would work well. Cost is reasonable. Recoil is very low. I have shot water jugs with some, and penetration is real good.

[Petrol & Powder]

Naphtali - PM sent

[Groo]

Groo here
I understand wanting a low powered load for the range or if you just can't hang on to a full power load BUT.
To think that a "mid range load" is a 357 is just wrong.....
If you can't shoot 15/18 full mag loads [ one cylinder and 2 reloads] at combat speed [ varies with the shooter]
Then you need a grip that fits, a new larger/ heavier gun , or must use a lower power load.
If you choose a "short BARREL load" [ not mid range] you will get a bullet designed to work at the speed of the lighter load.
Usually better than a "mid range " load.
The other option is a "Hot " 38 spec +p or something like the Buffalo Bore 38 spec "outdoorsman"38-44 level load.
This load though heavy in kick will drive deep , hit hard due to the flat point, and eject easier in a short ejector snubs due to the 38 length brass.
Shooting fast is just part of the plan, hitting the right place with a strong punch is also required.

[jmort]

^^^ Normally I agree in part or in full with Groo, but here I completely disagree. I have some Red Dot/Unique 30-30 rifle loads. Love them. Does that mean it is not a .30-30? Using this "logic" I guess it is not a .30-30 but something else, don't know what, using this "logic". Here, using my 170 grain wadcutter in a .357 mag case at 900 FPS in a snub, I get 309 ft lbs. Easy to shoot, will go through and through a goblin, which I like, and it is in a .357 mag case. I don't like to shoot .38 special cases in my .357s. You all do it. This is one reason I reload, so I can get exactly what I want, and what I don't want are .38 special cases in my .357 mag.

[Naphtali]

I am nearly certain that the midrange ammunition I will use in my 640 will be Speer's 135-grain Gold Dot for short barrels. It is expensive to shoot, though. I have identified Hornady Critical Duty 135-grain FlexLock that may - MAY - be satisfactory practice ammunition. What I do not know and cannot determine from published specifications is whether its muzzle velocity from my 2.125-inch barrel will closely match Speer's Gold Dot. Specifications for one are taken from 4-inch test barrel, the other from 8-inch test barrel. So neither the barrels nor published velocities are comparable. People who have chronographed these rounds in the same short barrel have the information I seek.

Are the cartridges' muzzle velocities from 2-to-2.5-inch barrels nearly identical?

[Petrol & Powder]

Going by Speer's own published data I see the Speer Gold Dot 135gr Short barrel load for 38 Spl. +P (Speer catalog #23921) lists a muzzle velocity of 860 fps with a 2" vented test barrel.

The Speer Gold Dot 135gr Short Barrel load for .357 mag (Speer catalog # 23917) list a muzzle velocity of 990 fps out of a 2" vented test barrel.

Vented test barrels are used to duplicate the pressure loss associated with the barrel to cylinder gap of a revolver.

The Speer Short Barrel load was developed for......wait for it..........SHORT BARRELS! So the cartridge, particularly the bullet, was designed to function with the velocities typically obtained from short barrels. Back when the NYPD still had a lot of officers equipped with revolvers as back up/off duty guns, the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel load was the issued ammunition for those snubnosed revolvers. It was later issued as regular duty ammunition for officers carrying 4" duty revolvers as well. It should be noted that the NYPD never authorized .357 magnums so 38 Special +P was their revolver load.

If a factory load is the criteria, the Speer 38 +P load has a track record and I can only assume the .357 mag version would only be better.
I can't speak to the Hornady load but the Speer load is a proven performer.

I still feel the "FBI load" [158gr LSWCHP +P] is the preferred load for a snubnose 38 Special but I understand the OP's desire for reduced recoil.

[kgb]

Here's a link to one reduced 357.
http://www.midwayusa.com/low-recoil/br?cid=22211
Remington used to list a reduced velocity 357 load but I don't see it now.
Best wishes

Remington's Golden Saber is the only one I recall reading about that was credited as being on the lower end of 125gr defensive rounds.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/609030/remington-golden-saber-ammunition-357-magnum-125-grain-brass-jacketed-hollow-point-box-of-25

[Bazoo]

CBC Magtech JHP, or JSP is good factory ammo. American eagle always seems a little hotter for factory stuff. Blazer is easier shooting than other factory ammo i've tried. All with 158 grain bullets. Winchester JHP white box, was easy shooting, I dont recall the exact bullet weight, but it was 110 or 125 grain bullets.

38 special plus p is in the range of light 357 ammo.

[Naphtali]

Apparently, the optimum choice for me is: Don't be a piker. If you've chosen Speer's 135-grain GD 357 Magnum for short barrels, invest sufficient funds to obtain 150-200 additional rounds for practice and training your muscle memory. After, you've acquired more than nominal proficiency, then you can nickel-dick for inexpensive ammunition to maintain that proficiency.
Going by Speer's own published data I see the Speer Gold Dot 135gr Short barrel load for 38 Spl. +P (Speer catalog #23921) lists a muzzle velocity of 860 fps with a 2" vented test barrel.

The Speer Gold Dot 135gr Short Barrel load for .357 mag (Speer catalog # 23917) list a muzzle velocity of 990 fps out of a 2" vented test barrel.

Vented test barrels are used to duplicate the pressure loss associated with the barrel to cylinder gap of a revolver.

The Speer Short Barrel load was developed for......wait for it..........SHORT BARRELS! So the cartridge, particularly the bullet, was designed to function with the velocities typically obtained from short barrels. Back when the NYPD still had a lot of officers equipped with revolvers as back up/off duty guns, the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel load was the issued ammunition for those snubnosed revolvers. It was later issued as regular duty ammunition for officers carrying 4" duty revolvers as well. It should be noted that the NYPD never authorized .357 magnums so 38 Special +P was their revolver load.

If a factory load is the criteria, the Speer 38 +P load has a track record and I can only assume the .357 mag version would only be better.
I can't speak to the Hornady load but the Speer load is a proven performer.

I still feel the "FBI load" [158gr LSWCHP +P] is the preferred load for a snubnose 38 Special but I understand the OP's desire for reduced recoil.

[Petrol & Powder]

Apparently, the optimum choice for me is: Don't be a piker. If you've chosen Speer's 135-grain GD 357 Magnum for short barrels, invest sufficient funds to obtain 150-200 additional rounds for practice and training your muscle memory. After, you've acquired more than nominal proficiency, then you can nickel-dick for inexpensive ammunition to maintain that proficiency.

Unfortunately factory ammo is not cheap and factory ammo made for self-defense is even more expensive. However, there is something to be said for plotting a course and steering it.

I don't know if you handload but if you do I believe you could assemble a practice round that was very similar in recoil & trajectory that would be far less expensive. The good news is you will have a large supply of casings of known history.

[Naphtali]

Yes, I do handload, but only for 45-70 and 45 Colt. I don't count casting for and using muzzleloaders. For me it's a different bag of cats. I own no 357 Magnum dies, brass, primers, gas checks (if needed), molds, or bullets. Powder I have is specific to my existing loading needs. To set up to handload for 357 Magnum would be kind've expensive. And since, excepting periodic muscle memory maintenance shooting, my 640 is not something I will enjoy using. A good analogy is the Methotrexate I ingest to mitigate a problem. Its side effects are not enjoyable, but the alternative is less enjoyable. So I believe right now that spending the bucks for my ammunition of choice, knowing that I'll be carrying the revolver often, practicing with it less often, and using it somewhere between never and seldom may be my best choice. One thing I will not need to be concerned about is inadvertently loading the wrong ammunition.