.38-55 gas check .381 or .382?

[FromTheWoods]

Still chasing an accurate load for a Winchester 1894 26" octagon DOM 1895.

Over the past several years, I've tried a variety of bullets in this rifle--can't seem to make it happy without using filler. And I'm trying to get away from filler in all my rifles' loads. The bore measures .381. Tried some sized to that with the thought they might expand to fill the grooves. Didn't work.

My next step to try is plain-base .382's or a gas-checked .381-.382. Who makes a .382 pb that might shoot well from this old rifle? Also, who makes a good gas-checked .381 and .382? I know a fine fellow who will cast the gas-checked bullets for me if I can find a mold--are there gas-checked molds for this caliber available to purchase?

RL-7 is the powder I hope to use. I have a good supply of it and of H4895. The rifle is a 4-digit serial number, so I'd prefer to stay easy on it. We plan to hunt deer and elk with this rifle.

[upnorthwis]

I have a 100,000 serial number Win 94. The only way to get mine to shoot was to make COL long enough that the lever would seat the boolit into the lands. Also, there is no way I would hunt Elk with it. If I'm going to be walking up and down mountains all day, the rifle I use better have more horsepower than a .38-55.

[FromTheWoods]

The timbered areas in Oregon's Coast Range where we usually hunt means shots are under 100 yards--too much vegetation to see much farther except in the clearcuts. Also, with my colorblindness, I shoot nearly all of my game high in the neck. I prefer to drop them where they stand; I can't see blood to track shoulder/chest shots. A few of the calibers we've taken deer with are .222, .32-40, and .38-40. I'm comfortable with the .38-55's ability to break an elk's neck.

Thank you for the tip on your COL. I'll read up on the pressures that are safe when seating into the lands. Your cartridges still cycle from the magazine to the chamber when that long?

[upnorthwis]

I don't know if they cycle or not. The only thing I use it for is Lever Action Silhouette and side matches at SASS. The reason I'm skeptical about the power of this cartridge is that I've fired mine into wet newspaper with a factory rounds and it barely went 2" deep. I presume the factory fodder is made for the weakest rifles out there, the ones we've got. That being said, it was the first rifle I shot deer with. Always went with the lung shot. Every deer was a tracking job.

[upnorthwis]

Now that I use various high intensity cartridges, the deer go about 20 yards, at that.

[Hickok]

Winchester factory 38/55 chronographs @ 1240 FPS. out of my Win. Model 94AE with a 26" barrel.

A good cast load with a 255 gr boolit will go far in excess of 1240 fps. And a 255 flat point cast boolit won't even slow up when hitting a deer as compared to the jacketed bullet of the factory load that mushrooms.

[Catshooter]

For a plain base .381-2 look to Lyman's new 380681. I Beagled my and they drop at .383 which I size to .381. Work well.

Good luck on your elk.


Cat

[cwheel]

My 1917 38-55 Win 94 needed .381 bullets in it's .379 bore to shoot well. I guess it depends on what you are loading for, but my rounds are 265 gr. gas checked running 1600 FPS using IMR 3031. These are hunting rounds, a little stiff for range use. Also, in these old rifles, wouldn't want to push it any harder. They run through the chrony each and every time within 15 FPS. Bullets that were any smaller tended to key-hole and scatter like a shotgun. When fired off a rifle rest I can get 2 1/2" groups @100yards without much work on my part. Slug the bore, add + .002 to the bullet and give it a go. Good luck,
Chris

[TXGunNut]

For a plain base .381-2 look to Lyman's new 380681. I Beagled my and they drop at .383 which I size to .381. Work well.

Good luck on your elk.


Cat

I agree, no need for a GC with factory spec 38-55 ammo and little need to go faster, IMHO. Mine drop @ .380 and that seems to be working fine in my 1901 vintage 94. Can't speak to elk hunting with it, mine's mainly a range toy or eye candy and I've never shot anything that big. I suspect it will do just fine inside of 150 yds with the correct alloy and shot placement, tho.

[skeettx]

Through my Ruger #1 and Marlin Cowboy guns in 38-55 I use an LBT .382 275 LFN bullet
with gas checks and 30 grains of 3031, sweet
Mike

p.s. might drop back to 29 grains as the bullet sits on top of the powder and it take a bit of effort
to chamber the round. BUT it is clover-leaf accurate

Mike

P.S. these might be worth a try ??

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/2273

[Chill Wills]

Through my Ruger #1 and Marlin Cowboy guns in 38-55 I use an LBT .382 275 LFN bullet
with gas checks and 30 grains of 3031, sweet Mike
p.s. might drop back to 29 grains as the bullet sits on top of the powder and it take a bit of effort
to chamber the round. BUT it is clover-leaf accurate

.38-55 gas check .381 or .382?

FromThe Woods "Still chasing an accurate load for a Winchester 1894 26" octagon DOM 1895.

Over the past several years, I've tried a variety of bullets in this rifle--can't seem to make it happy without using filler. And I'm trying to get away from filler in all my rifles' loads. The bore measures .381. Tried some sized to that with the thought they might expand to fill the grooves. Didn't work."
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That is a powerhouse load in an old, first/second year Winchester. I would guess it is safe enough but what I have found with 1894's of that vintage is stuff breaks. Not catastrophic things like barrel or breach blocks but things like the pined magazine tube under the barrel. That recoil pulse will pull the tube forward and the pin will iron a flat spot along the mag tube. I've had three early 4-digit 1894's in 38-55 and still have two of them. It is a problem with this level of power or should I say velocity. Later rifles were corrected and do not do this.
The other area of trouble is the wood in the wrist and this is a rifle by rifle deal. A steady diet of hard recoil can at the very least loosen up the tang wood.

I learned this over the years shooting the monthly Cowboy Silhouette matches driving 265 grn bullets fast enough to easily take the rams down. It was a little too much of a good thing for these early rifles.

Bernie over at Old West Bullet Molds made my 265gr bullet and in a three cavity block. It is at least 0.382" and correct for Winchesters and older Marlins. He cuts both Brass and Iron mold blocks in as many cavities as you want to pay for.

Michael Rix

[FromTheWoods]

I wrote a response last week to some of the suggestions and ideas here, but it appears that it disappeared--must have hit the wrong key. Went to the mountains out of internet range and on returning was surprised to not see it here. I'll try just a bit of it again.

The rifle is a takedown, so the magazine tube hangs differently from those of normal rifles. I suppose the wrist would still be subject to maladies from heavier loads? And how much later did Winchester correct the the hanger problem?

Our family has .32 WS rifles from the first couple decades of the 1900's. Do heavier loads in this caliber cause problems?
Many '94's I've seen for sale have cracks and/or are missing a chunk of wood off the upper sides of the wrist where it meets the receiver. Is that caused by too heavy of a load?

Looks as if I'm straying from my original post.