Truck frame rust

[Thumbcocker]

I have a 2003 Tundra that just turned over 100k. I love this truck it is paid for and does everything I need a truck to do. Salty roads are taking a toll on the underside. Nothing is rusted through but it is pretty rust under there. The dust shields on the brake rotors are pretty eaten up. I do regular servicing and would like to get another 100k out of the truck.


What should I do about the underside rust. The body has no rust on it. I have looked at rust converter but I don't know how I would treat inside he frame members. Should I have the truck undercoated? If so what brand or product would you recommend?

[JWFilips]

Have a 2001 Tacoma...My wife took it in for me to get an oil change & they impounded it! Gave her a new Prius for me to drive for 6 months and put a totally new frame on my 2001 Tacoma ( must have been a major deal with QC) Still driving that Tacoma today!

[jcwit]

I get my vehicles oil treated every summer. What I currently use is Corrosion Free, here is the link http://www.corrosionfree.com/home.html

Closest dealer is in Oswego. They of course will do a professional job and the cost is reasonable IMO, less that $200.

If perchance you are an above average DIY'er you might look into Fluid Film, it's available at John Deere Dealers in either spray or in bulk. The bulk is heavier/sticker.

Frankly the Corrosion Free is the way to go IMO, it's like "snot" to put it gently, but still creeps into all weld seams ect. My last car was over 10 years old without a spot of rust with the No. Ind. salt roads. I live 5 miles from the Mi. line

Best to you.

[DougGuy]

I don't know how much good you will do on already rust covered steel. Anything you use to coat the rust with will help it to hold in water better which creates even more rust. Just sayin'

[jcwit]

I don't know how much good you will do on already rust covered steel. Anything you use to coat the rust with will help it to hold in water better which creates even more rust. Just sayin'

Not if it's a rust proofing oil!

Now if it's a spray on coating such as bed liner coating or Ziebart you are correct.

[shaper]

When I lived in Florida a friend would drive down from Wisconsin in the spring. While his wife and boy spent some time in Disney we would go truck shopping. He would find one with a lot of miles and a motor that would just get him back to Wis. He would then pull his low mileage motor out of the salty rust heap and put it in the good body with no rust. problem solved.

[Houndog]

You might want to check with the Toyota dealer. They had a recall for frame rusting and your truck might be subject to that recall.

[Petrol & Powder]

Yep, check with Toyota. They have acknowledged the frame rusting issue on the first generation Tacoma's (1995.5-2004).
If your truck was sold in one of the high-road salt states (northeast and upper mid-west) and it has significant frame rust they will replace the frame. HOWEVER- be forewarned !!! It is a big deal and you will be without your truck for several months, just like JWFilips stated!!
(ask me how I know)

Toyota will inspect the frame and determine if it falls into the replacement category. If it qualifies, they will order a new frame. The delivery time for the replacement frame is the choke point in the process and can take several months. When the new frame arrives; they remove the body from the old frame, remove the running gear from the old frame and switch the running gear to the new frame. Then the body gets bolted back onto the new frame. It is a major job but you end up with new frame.

Toyota was buying back trucks with defective frames but they've stopped that process and are now just replacing bad frames.

The entire process is an ordeal but it is better than being stuck with a defective frame. Eventually the frame replacement program will end and if you have one of the severely rusted frames that was not replaced you will be stuck with a truck that can't be driven or re-sold at a reasonable price. Given the alternative, the frame replacement is the lessor of two evils.

[Petrol & Powder]

Thumbcocker - I just re-read you post and noted you have a Tundra as opposed to a Tacoma. I don't know if the Tundra's had the same issue as the Tacoma's.

[dubber123]

If your are reasonably handy, you can make up a sprayer and oil undercoat it yourself. I personally prefer HOT bar and chain oil. It can be sprayed cold with a different type of sprayer. Do it twice a year. If you really get a good coat on, it will dramatically slow the already existing rust. After a few applications, it will build up with road dust to a fairly thick coating. Living in Vt. means dealing with never ending rust.

[funnyjim014]

Any any car that lasts more than 10yrs is doing print good. Rust convertor is waste of time, damage is all ready done. Oil treating of any sort will slow down the rotting. Just watch brake lines and fuel lines when it's getting rotty. I have a set of prebent brake lines ready to go when my06 Chevrolet let's one go

[NSB]

Forget spraying on anything yourself to stop rust. Once it starts it doesn't stop. I worked as a quality engineer for the auto industry for forty years. When Toyota developed the Tacoma they didn't listen to anything the American's told them. Much of the truck was the result of joint ventures between Toyota and General Motors. Toyota did what they wanted and the result was a poorly designed vehicle presented to the American market. No rust protection and an underpowered motor for the size of the truck. Salt spray testing is one thing the American auto industry really understands. They learned the hard way back in the 60s and 70s and paid dearly for it themselves. Japan doesn't salt the roads and the entire concept of corrosion resistance just didn't seem to set in. Once rust starts and corrosion begins, spraying oils, etc. on the area does nothing at all. It's another one of those urban myths that Bubba developed in his garage. FWIW, Toyota replaced the frames on the earlier trucks (pre 2004 I believe) or bought back the truck at 150% of the resale value of the truck at that time. Few people opted for the frame replacement. It put the vehicle out of service for months. I think they did some type of preventive service on the second gen of these trucks when brought in. I can't remember all the details but if you google Toyota Tacoma it's all there to see. Just about any vehicle that's twelve or more years old just isn't worth the time of expense of trying to wring another hundred thousand miles out of. Just about every other component under the vehicle is too worn or corroded to justify the cost. Some times you just have to let it give up the ghost and move on.

[dragonrider]

Have a 2001 Tacoma...My wife took it in for me to get an oil change & they impounded it! Gave her a new Prius for me to drive for 6 months and put a totally new frame on my 2001 Tacoma ( must have been a major deal with QC) Still driving that Tacoma today!

Same thing happened with my 04 Tacoma only took them two months and that only because they got the wrong frame at first and had to reorder. Still got it and with luck it will be my last vehicle. My first toyata pickup I had for seventeen years so it was not hard to buy another.

[jcwit]

Forget spraying on anything yourself to stop rust. Once it starts it doesn't stop. I worked as a quality engineer for the auto industry for forty years.

Tell that to the Canadians that use Krown and/or RustChex rust proofing on their vehicles. Rust Proofing oil does work, and no you brake lines will last as well, this is one reason to use professional application and not DIY.

Furthermore, these rustproofing oils are one of the items used by ocean going ships exposed to salt water constantly.

That 12 year old car I mentioned in an earlier post was a Ford Escort, known to rust out, it was totally free of rust from the point of me buying it used, 4 years old at the time. Only reason I retired it was because it dropped the infamous exhaust valve seat upon startup.

Ziebart pretty much trashed the rust proofing business here in the U.S.

[rockrat]

I have a tundra and took it in. You could see the rust on the frame, but when I got it back from inspection, the paperwork said "NO RUST NOTED". Yeah, right. County sprays mag chloride on our dirt roads to the point it puddles on the road.

I liked to use ACF50 on aircraft. Its is an anti corrosion product. another good one is Boeshield, which I believe was developed for Boeing aircraft. Maybe I will try some boeshield on my tundra

[NSB]

Tell that to the Canadians that use Krown and/or RustChex rust proofing on their vehicles. Rust Proofing oil does work, and no you brake lines will last as well, this is one reason to use professional application and not DIY.

Furthermore, these rustproofing oils are one of the items used by ocean going ships exposed to salt water constantly.

That 12 year old car I mentioned in an earlier post was a Ford Escort, known to rust out, it was totally free of rust from the point of me buying it used, 4 years old at the time. Only reason I retired it was because it dropped the infamous exhaust valve seat upon startup.

Ziebart pretty much trashed the rust proofing business here in the U.S.

I could care less what the Canadian's do or don't do. I spent a lot of time doing salt spray testing and analysis and I've been in every assembly plant in the US, Canada, and Mexico. I live and worked in the North East and have a lot of experience with corrosion. None of those oil sprays stay on the vehicle and they don't reverse rust that has already started. I get a laugh at all the experts who do this stuff and claim it works. Snake Oil anyone? Almost all new cars, including Toyotas, have corrosion protection applied to the metal as manufacturing and it works very, very well......if it's applied. Toyota didn't do "Due Diligence" when doing their DFMEAs and PFMEAs on the early Tacoma builds. I worked on a joint venture with them at that time and you couldn't tell them anything. They were never wrong :shock: I don't believe that most Canadian provinces use the amount of salt the US does in the Northern states.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I could care less what the Canadian's do or don't do. I spent a lot of time doing salt spray testing and analysis and I've been in every assembly plant in the US, Canada, and Mexico. I live and worked in the North East and have a lot of experience with corrosion. None of those oil sprays stay on the vehicle and they don't reverse rust that has already started. I get a laugh at all the experts who do this stuff and claim it works. Snake Oil anyone? Almost all new cars, including Toyotas, have corrosion protection applied to the metal as manufacturing and it works very, very well......if it's applied. Toyota didn't do "Due Diligence" when doing their DFMEAs and PFMEAs on the early Tacoma builds. I worked on a joint venture with them at that time and you couldn't tell them anything. They were never wrong :shock: I don't believe that most Canadian provinces use the amount of salt the US does in the Northern states.
NSB, thanks for the "in the BIZ" insight...It is incredible thing about this website.

I don't put many miles on my cars, like I use to...and I don't mind trading off cars more often than most people do. So I am always looking for a Nice looking vehicle with high miles for a cheap price. In Minnesota (part of the rust belt), it takes a well designed car to last through our winters for 10 years or so.

Now to my point, my current everyday car, bought last year, is a '05 toyota AWD matrix with 220K miles. I don't know how it's possible, because the Lady I bought this from, used this car to commute via salt covered freeways to Minneapolis for 8 or 9 years and this car is rust free outside as well as underneath. Now, I don't see any of the usual type of 'undercoating', so I don't know what kind of "corrosion protection" is applied by toyota...as mentioned by NSB...but it surely is impressive when compared to the other high mileage cars I've owned in the last 10 years. It'll be interesting how long "this" car will last me ?

[dubber123]

If applied as I directed, at least twice per year, it will build up a pretty thick oily coating. The road dust combines with the oil. If oil doesn't prevent rust, we are all a bunch of dummies for using it on our guns. Wow, the money I have wasted on gun oil all these years!

[Petrol & Powder]

The sad thing about the Tacoma is that as a compact pickup, it's not bad. The 3RZ-FE four cylinder engine is just about bullet-proof. I've seen a LOT of the old 22R engines go 300K miles and the current incarnation of the Toyota OHC 4 cylinder seems on track to match that durability. The rear axle is well proven and the manual gearboxes are almost impossible to destroy. It's not a full sized truck or on par with most work trucks but for what it is, it is hard to beat.
They really screwed up with the frames and it will cost them.

[funnyjim014]

Spray on oil under coating does work if done since new and sprayed on nice and thick then driven on dusty dirt road. I am an auto tech in buffalo and see 2 yr plow trucks thatthe underside and engine looks like its 20yrs old. The ones with oil goo dripping off everything last much longer but hey im not an expert on the corrosion of ferris metals

[JWT]

Modern vehicles will have the rust proofing under the paint on body parts. The sheet metals in the exterior parts are typically galvanized at the steel mill. After the parts are stamped they are assembled. Vulnerable seams usually get a body sealer prior to welding. When the body is complete it's off to the paint shop for the immersion painting process. The entire vehicle is immersed is a series of tanks than clean, etch, and coat the metal inside and out. Next the vehicle is run through the ELPO or E-Coat system where the grounded vehicle it is immersed in electrically charged paint to evenly coat all of the metal (even inside welded assemblies). After the paint has been baked dry the seam sealer is applied to the underbody and interior seams. At this point the car is primed, painted and baked. Don't cut through these coating to bare steel if you want to avoid rust. After a car goes through all of this the only real vulnerable spots are at the hem seams (doors and hood) where water can pool internally.

Frames of frame-on vehicles (trucks and large SUVs) are either painted using a dip process or wax coated using a similar process.

[jonp]

I have a 2003 Tundra that just turned over 100k. I love this truck it is paid for and does everything I need a truck to do. Salty roads are taking a toll on the underside. Nothing is rusted through but it is pretty rust under there. The dust shields on the brake rotors are pretty eaten up. I do regular servicing and would like to get another 100k out of the truck.


What should I do about the underside rust. The body has no rust on it. I have looked at rust converter but I don't know how I would treat inside he frame members. Should I have the truck undercoated? If so what brand or product would you recommend?

Did you get the recall notice from Toyota about the rusting frames on Tundra's? You may be in line for an entire new frame free of charge

[Fishman]

Salt? Rust? What is this which you speak of?

My 16 year old Silverado still has some stickers on the undercarriage. No rust. Just another good thing about Texas lol.

[jcwit]

I could care less what the Canadian's do or don't do. I spent a lot of time doing salt spray testing and analysis and I've been in every assembly plant in the US, Canada, and Mexico. I live and worked in the North East and have a lot of experience with corrosion. None of those oil sprays stay on the vehicle and they don't reverse rust that has already started. I get a laugh at all the experts who do this stuff and claim it works. Snake Oil anyone? Almost all new cars, including Toyotas, have corrosion protection applied to the metal as manufacturing and it works very, very well......if it's applied. Toyota didn't do "Due Diligence" when doing their DFMEAs and PFMEAs on the early Tacoma builds. I worked on a joint venture with them at that time and you couldn't tell them anything. They were never wrong :shock: I don't believe that most Canadian provinces use the amount of salt the US does in the Northern states.

Glad you know it all.

My experience says different.

2003 KIA Rio, 120,000 rust free miles.
2001 Ford Escort, till Dropped valve 2013, 180,000 rust free miles.
2005 Pontiac Vibe, currently 140,000 rust free miles.

Prior to that I have no idea, I do know there were 6 Dodge Mini vans and non of them were rusty, all had way over 100,000 miles, one was over 300,000 miles till it gave up. I don't drive shabby vehicles.

You may very well have had all sorts of science experience, but my experience is in the real world, and yes one does need to reapply the oil coating every year. And this is the Indiana salt area, 5 miles from the Michigan boarder, 100 miles East of Chicago.

[ryan28]

If you go to the dealer lot, and look under the new trucks, you will most likely find rust on the frame, typically fasteners and bends, welds, etc. Every one I ever looked at did.
The truck load of steel going into the factory has rust on it.
Can't stop it, best you can hope for is slow it down.

[Petrol & Powder]

The issue I have with oil based rustproofing is once you go down that path it becomes the only path you can go down.
Once you apply oil there's no going back at a later time and applying paint, epoxy, rubber based undercoating, etc.
That's not to say oil is ineffective. As long as you can re-apply the oil it would go a long way to slowing rust but I would prefer to take a different tack if given a choice.

As for the frames themselves, not all steel is equal and not all environments are the same.
Some alloys are far more rust resistant than others. some frames are thicker than others. Some frames hold water and salt which speeds up the corrosion process and some environments are brutal. I've seen the underside of cars that spent 10 years on the roads of Massachusetts that looked horrible and I've seen 40 year old cars from the southwest that looked almost new.

[Petrol & Powder]

Salt? Rust? What is this which you speak of?

My 16 year old Silverado still has some stickers on the undercarriage. No rust. Just another good thing about Texas lol.

I once helped to repair an Oldsmobile from Massachusetts that was so rusted the driveshaft failed. The owner attempted to accelerate and the rusted driveshaft twisted, effectively shortening it to the point the yoke was pulled out of the tailshaft of the transmission! It was a spectacular failure :shock: .
After we replaced the driveshaft we had to replace every inch of the brake lines, the fuel line and the straps that held the gas tank on. The rust was extreme, if it had been mine I would have junked it on the spot.

[dubber123]

Judging from the bosses fleet of 3/4 and 1 ton Duramax trucks, all the engineering put into rust prevention at GM amounts to... Not much. Within the first year up here, the frames are brown almost full length. Second year, rust scales on the frame. By the 3rd or 4th year, you can expect to see brown stains on any body seam. Hmmm. Wonder what that is? You won't have to wonder too long, you will either see a big bubble or a hole within the next year. Oil is the only thing that has slowed this process down. No, you won't stop it in Vermont, but you can delay it a long, long time if you get ahead of it, and stay on the issue.

[Plate plinker]

Don't you all wash your vehicles? EVER?

[jonp]

Judging from the bosses fleet of 3/4 and 1 ton Duramax trucks, all the engineering put into rust prevention at GM amounts to... Not much. Within the first year up here, the frames are brown almost full length. Second year, rust scales on the frame. By the 3rd or 4th year, you can expect to see brown stains on any body seam. Hmmm. Wonder what that is? You won't have to wonder too long, you will either see a big bubble or a hole within the next year. Oil is the only thing that has slowed this process down. No, you won't stop it in Vermont, but you can delay it a long, long time if you get ahead of it, and stay on the issue.

I remember getting a hot oil undercoat every fall. The richer folks got Ziebart. Life on the Quebec border.

[jonp]

Don't you all wash your vehicles? EVER?

Water accelerates the rust damage salt can do. The best bet is to wait until spring when it warms up perminant like and thoroughly wash the undercarriage

[Hogdaddy]

Ospho acid treat,,then undercoat ; )
H/D

[dubber123]

Don't you all wash your vehicles? EVER?

I washed my current car every time it was warm enough the last 2 years. If you don't know, only idiots wash their cars when it is well below zero. Well, idiots or people who don't have to get into them the next day to go to work. :) For all of the $20 car washes I got, I still have 2 big rust spots starting by the rear wheels. No, I never oiled this one as it had 200,000 miles on it when I got it, and I never expected it to be going strong at 300,000. Damn Subarus anyways.

Washing helps, but it certainly won't stop rust. Anyone who doesn't live in this corrosive pit of the NE just doesn't get it.

[square butte]

Got a 4Runner like that. 233K and ruins like it will go another 200K. I did replace both rocker panels. Don't ya just love Vermont winters.

[Thumbcocker]

I took it in for the cross member recall and they replaced it. I was this truck within a few days of every time I drive it on salted roads. I bought it new and really want 200K out of it. I will contact the dealer.

[dubber123]

Got a 4Runner like that. 233K and ruins like it will go another 200K. I did replace both rocker panels. Don't ya just love Vermont winters.

I've seen your 4 Runner at your house a few times.. :) And NO, I don't love Vt. Winters, I hope it never snows again. I will take a plane ticket to where snow is if I ever miss it, and I don't see it happening any time soon!

[dubber123]

I took it in for the cross member recall and they replaced it. I was this truck within a few days of every time I drive it on salted roads. I bought it new and really want 200K out of it. I will contact the dealer.

Good luck! If they fix it and you can keep it from rusting again, 200K should be easy to do.

[jcwit]

Ever notice how rusty it is inside a cast iron block.

[square butte]

Dubber - Looks like we are pretty much on the same page on winters in Vermont and snow. ( That comment about loving VT winters was meant completely as sarcasm - I just don't know how to turn on the button for purple print )

[harveyspecter]

My wife took it in for me to get an oil change & they impounded it!
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[Remiel]

Try these, i can say with experience that POR 15 works like a charm
http://www.eastwood.com/paints/rust-solutions/treatment.html

[Geezer in NH]

Good luck on any US make of the big 3 do to frame rust.

Trade your vehicle if you bought it new within 6 years and forget about it. In the northern states the rusted brake lines, rusted emergency brake cables, non-working ABS brains start going about then. Fix all of these problems and frame and body mount problems follow within 4-5 years.

Solution buy used cheap use and throw away. It fits the auto makers disposable vehicle policy's.

For my self We make a trip south and buy a high mileage vehicle. The body's and such are fine and 2-3 years later a motor or transmission is way cheaper than chasing RUST.

[Lloyd Smale]

I live in rust country usa. I think theres more salt per mile put on roads here then anywhere. I remember back in the 70s and 80s everyone paid for zbart of some other rust proofing on there new cars. Most found it didn't help a bit. The ones it did help were the ones that did it before the car saw moisture and had it reaplyed every year. What most found was it cost more to do and to upkeep then it saved in corrosion. Now id bet not one in 500 cars up here get rust proofed. I agree with others in that rust proofing metal that's already corroded is a total waste of time and money. It puts a nice coating on metal and fools you into thinking you have dones something worth while until a year or so goes by and it starts coming off and low and behold the rust is still there and probably worse then it was before. Ive used them all including por15 and wouldn't waste 10 cents doing it again. Best way to cure salt damage on your frame is once a week spend a few bucks and drive through a car wash with an underbody flush.

[dragon813gt]

Don't you all wash your vehicles? EVER?

Can't do it if it's below freezing. And there is little point if the roads are still wet and salted. The frame on my Canyon is rusted. I keep getting ABS faults because the left front speed sensor is corroded. They have a habit of breaking upon removal and you usually end up having to replace the entire hub. Pulling the fuse fixes the problem but leaves me w/ no ABS. I'm driving this thing into the ground. Has almost 140k on it and I plan on getting at least 200k out of it. I will just have to start replacing parts as I go :)

[jcwit]

I'll stay with the oil spray, it's worked for me so far even with cars 12 years old.