.50 Vs .54 Cal

[SimonT]

Hi All,

Im about to purchase my first muzzleloader!!

Im looking at a Lyman Deerstalker in percussion cap. seems like an affordable option for my first one, and percussion cap might be easier to get the hang of over flintlock.

Anyway, assuming the above is the right direction, what should i get..... .50 or .54 cal?

I cant imagine i will do a lot of hunting with it.... if i do, it will be pigs or kangaroos, so nothing as big as deer. Its more for the fun of shooting.
I get the feeling that .50 is probably the most versatile, available and cost effective... is this the case, and will i be disappointed if i dont get the .54?

Thanks guys...

[mooman76]

The 50 will take anything deer size or smaller and some people even hunt as big as elk with them. A bit(slightly) more on the economy size compared to the 54 and a more popular size so there are more options but you won't go wrong and I can't see you being disappointed with either one.

[rfd]

with deer primarily in mind, i agree that the .50 would be my choice ... unless hogs were also hunted.

[LAGS]

I vote for starting with the .50.
It will give you something else to buy, once you are addicted to Muzzle Loading.
Trust Me, your first ML will rarely be your last ML.

[JWFilips]

I'm going to tell you a little about Muzzleloaders ...Take it with a grain of salt (because what do I know) A .40 Caliber and .54 Caliber round ball long gun are inherently the most accurate calibers.

[Edward]

The 50 works great but the 54 does every thing the 50 will do and then goes further with more and heavier loaded up or down and with a patched round ball that does matter ,being over gunned ain"t bad !!!!

[OverMax]

50 for land animals. 54 for crocks and great white's up close enough where one can see plack build up on either's big tooth.
Patch/ Round ball in either caliber feels about the same in recoil. When one changes to heavy weight bullet type projectiles and powder charges upwards of 90 grs. & plus. Than there is a significant change in recoil felt between the two. Enough to where one may step back and say "ouch!! that 54 sure does kick"

[waksupi]

I'm going to tell you a little about Muzzleloaders ...Take it with a grain of salt (because what do I know) A .40 Caliber and .54 Caliber round ball long gun are inherently the most accurate calibers.

They do tend to run that direction.

[SimonT]

Thanks for the advice so far guys... Keep it coming :)
What are your thoughts on the lyman?

[725]

Lyman sidelocks are well made and a good buy for an off the rack gun. I wouldn't be shy to have either .50 or .54. Both will serve well. If punching paper is your primary ambition, I would lean toward the .50. If hunting is in the mix, I'd go .54. Really both will do it all, and do it all very well. My preference for the .54 is just me. I've used both and neither have let me down. Jump in and enjoy yourself!!

[Good Cheer]

The GPR? Mine are real good.
By the way, for the .54 the Lyman load data gives 110 grains of FFg for the 450 grain maxi. In the round ball slow twist barrel that's plenty to stabilize the old Ideal / Lyman extra thick skirted hunting load minie as well as expand the skirt to fill the deep grooves. So, if you ever feel the urge to shoot long boolits instead of short round boolits the capability is there.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/.54%20minie%20and%20GPR_zpsullsh2u4.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/.54%20minie%20and%20GPR_zpsullsh2u4.jpg.html)

[swathdiver]

If you're planning to shoot the gun in the traditional manner, with a PRB, go with the .54 caliber.

If you're planning to shoot the gun in the contemporary manner, with boolits, sabots, fake powder, etc., go with the .50 caliber.

As for the rifle itself, it is well made and will serve one well who takes care of it. I'm partial to the Trade Rifle, it comes right up on the sights.

[Gofaaast]

I have 2 54's and have never regreted going with the 54. If you are on this site, most likely you are not worried about the limited availability of projectiles for the 54 compared to the 50. That is the only negative of owning 54's IMO.

[True.grit]

Go with the 50 first then when you get hooked you will need a 54, 45 36, 32, 40, 58..........

[rodwha]

I have a .50 cal percussion Deerstalker (blued with PRB grooves) and love it. It's a good rifle.

Lyman sells additional barrels fairly cheap.

I chose the .50 cal as there are many more options and availability, and felt if I was given the opportunity to hunt something large like elk I could use a conical. Mine shoots the 320 grn REAL very well too.

The .50 cal has a little flatter trajectory and the .54 bucks the wind a little better.

Were I to do over again I'd likely get a .54 instead. I'd prefer to use the larger ball and I cast my projectiles anyway.

[leeggen]

either will do your hunting well. I have both a 50 and a 54.TC Hawkens love to shoot both. I never seem to notice much difference in the recoil, although the 54 does use more powder than tha 50 and heavier bullits. Of corse I love the smell of black powder, it is like the arroma of a fresh baked apple pie to me. That big cloud of smoke you have to wait to clear so you can see your game is just wonderful to see.
CD

[SimonT]

The GPR? Mine are real good.
By the way, for the .54 the Lyman load data gives 110 grains of FFg for the 450 grain maxi. In the round ball slow twist barrel that's plenty to stabilize the old Ideal / Lyman extra thick skirted hunting load minie as well as expand the skirt to fill the deep grooves. So, if you ever feel the urge to shoot long boolits instead of short round boolits the capability is there.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/.54%20minie%20and%20GPR_zpsullsh2u4.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/.54%20minie%20and%20GPR_zpsullsh2u4.jpg.html)

was thinking the deer stalker.

[rbuck351]

I have a CVA with both 50 and 54 barrels.I don't use the 50 barrel at all as the 54 will shoot patched ball or if you want to shoot .490 balls real easy, get a bag of 28ga shotgun wads, drop in a 490 ball and grease up the outside of the wad. It slides down real easy first shot or 50th. If you had boolits of the right size .490 or a 45cal paper patched to .490, you could drop them in a 28ga wad and shoot boolits as long as your twist will allow. A 54 is 2in1 thing using 28ga wads.

[Rustyleee]

My first muzzleloader was a Lyman Great Plains Rifle about 35 years ago. Mine was a .50 that I shot at club matches. After a few months I wanted to see just how well I could do so on the advice of a nationally ranked shooter in our club I built a .45 cal barrel and fitted it with a Lyman Globe front site and a rear peep. That barrel sot better than most of the modern rifles I had at the time. If you want to be an accurate target shooter, heavier recoil will not help you. A .50 cal round ball is a very good killer for up to deer sized game including hogs. Because of the twist in your rifle I'd say it will shoot conical slugs just fine for anything bigger.

[triggerhappy243]

What is fake powder?

[triggerhappy243]

I hear kangaroo's shoot back.

[Lead Fred]

Fake powder = substitutes
Holy black or nuttin for some of us.

Since your buying a third world production rifle, it will be a pig in the polk buy, so your stuck with what ever you get.

50 over 54 for range and accuracy. 54 for knock down. Tho a few of my buds have switched down to 50 cal to save weight when elk hunting. They both work, and the elk does not know the difference.

[rfd]

Thanks for the advice so far guys... Keep it coming :)
What are your thoughts on the lyman?

imho, lyman ml's (made by invest arms, italy) are far better in quality than the cheaper traditions, cva's and others (mostly made in spain). all sport patent breeches, but the lyman patent breech is user removable where those others aren't. i've had all of these, in flintlock and caplock, built some from "kits", too. i always recommend a lyman trade rifle (flint or cap) as an excellent starter ml that has inherent value for accuracy, durability and make excellent hunters. i also always recommend the .50 over the .54 for a newbie, for hunting or plinking.

[Sasquatch-1]

I would just like to make one suggestion that has nothing to do with Caliber. Unless you like the look of the deep crescent butt plate on the rifle, look for one that has the flatter musket style. Especially if shooting from a bench. I have had some nasty bruises from the top of the crescent digging into my shoulder when shooting from a bench.

Of course this all comes down to price.

This
154224


Not this
154225

[rfd]

i agree on the butt shape - shotgun style is better than vintage crescent, but the crescent is easily tamed with a lace-on or slip-on butt pad, or a shoulder pad.

[fouronesix]

Yes, one of the easiest leather projects is making a lace-on pad for crescent butt.
Thick/stiff piece of leather and some lacing. Also protects butt when grounding.

This is on a Hawken repro that has crescent butt.

[rfd]

kick killer w/akton gel pad on a .58 fowler, really soaks up the recoil big time ...

http://i.imgur.com/AYM2LLA.jpg

[shdwlkr]

like so many others have said a .50 caliber is good for deer, .54 for larger stuff and if you really want some knock down look at .58 caliber worked well in the civil war, now if you want to hunt tree rats .32-.40 is the size you want. As to who made your firearm, well I like TC and lyman makes a good one. Today you will be hard pressed to find a new made bp firearm in anything but .50-.54 caliber yes I know there is at least one small caliber one made.
the real challenge will be to just keep only one bp firearm once the excitement gets in your blood, you may start with a cap lock but one day you will yearn for a flinter.
I have maybe 8 or so of them and even have a bp shotgun whole other place to go with bp. yep just like cast bullets it is a disease that only ends when you leave this life and hopefully along the way you have infected at least one other in the sport

[fouronesix]

My experience tends to favor the 54 for all around. A 58 is nice because it can easily be loaded to a very mild level. Even a slow moving 58 cal projectile has plenty of terminal effect and penetration for most big game. An accurate conical or Minié, 50 cal or larger, is plenty for WT deer up through moose. For any big game hunting with patched roundball, the larger the caliber the better- IMO.

If you are down under, then big game hunting isn't really of much consideration unless some feral stuff needs culling or water buffalo opportunity comes up. Still... the 58 (577) would not be a bad choice. Depending on the gun, many 58s can easily shoot both patched roundballs and Miniés with surprising accuracy.

[Fly]

I would chose the .50 cal for around. I have them all, down to .32 cal. But if I only had one, it would be a .50 cal.

JMOHOP Fly

[Whitesmoke]

Hi Simon,
It sounds very much that you might be shooting targets and then only do a bit of hunting
If you going to hunt feral pigs with I can tell you you grunters don't like being shot at with a .50.

In the sorghum fields around Emerald Qld feral porkers can run to 150kgs dressed and I have had an instance where the ball bounced off a mud caked chest.If it wasn't for a back up with a 7.62 it may have got exciting.

Fifty fours are a better gun than a fifty,very easy to find the sweet spot for an accurate load an pretty economical on black powder.At fifty meters offhand they are very accurate

I use a .535 ball with a .012" patch over 55gns of 2ffg.
I have sent a PM and can help with with the paces we get our powder and such.

Owing to greedy buggers charging $25/100 for .535 swaged balls I now cast my own.

Cheers
Whitesmoke

[SimonT]

Thanks for all the replies guys. Really appreciate the input.
Seems like its still a split camp between 50 and 54.... im swaying for the 54 because... well... bigger is better :)
Thanks whitesmoke... would love to talk more... will check my PMs.

[rfd]

yes, if ya hafta really think about it, go for the .54 - love my .58 and there's nothing it can't handle in north america.

[Ramjet-SS]

First off the Deer Stalker isa nice gun and you will enjoy it. As far as caliber; well that subjective either will take any animal in North America with conical pure lead bullets like the TC Maxi ball or the Hornady Great Plains. The first one a had I added the rear peep sight and put a green fiber optic sight in the front that rifle was really accurate and allot of fun. Great value.

Now on on personal side I like big bore ML and if they offered a 58 that what I would get....but then Imlove burning large amounts of black powder........it's fun.

[Whitesmoke]

Guys,
Powderwise, things are a lot different here than you might other wise think. You fellers are at an advantage where you pay relatively cheaply for your powder and caps.



We have to be licensed to own firearms and buy the powder and caps for them. We are a captive market and are exploited because of it.
Down here in the Antipodes,in some shops we are paying better than $91 a lb(yes $91 ,I wish it was a typo but no) for Goex, swaged round balls $35 per 100 and and up to $15 for a 100 caps, if they can be had at all, as very few gunshops have them.

As a result most shooters show frugality in our loading practices and casting our own balls and buy patch cloth at the fabric shops.
Both the major black powder firearms ,accessories and powder importers are at present owned by senior gentlemen who can't go on for ever.When they finally get too old to run their respective business I fear the importing of BP related items will fall into the hands of one of the big guys who won't treat the folk making up our black powder community, well at all.

I found my .54 to quite happily accept .55 gns behind a .535 ball and .012 patch for target work where it showed exceptional accuracy.

I have shot a a Green River,a Thompson Center, A Lyman Trade rifle and a Pedersoli all in .54 cal and they are all very similiar shooting rifles. I dunno ,there're seems that there is a sweet spot in this particular caliber bridging both accuracy and power.
Whitesmoke.

[KCSO]

A 50 calibre round ball with 75 grains of ffg will shoot clear through a 1200 pound buffalo, if you need more power than that????

As to accuracy I shoot a 40 for match shooting and a 50 for 100 yard matches and get along just fine, The 50 might need a little more tuning to find the right load but the accuracy will be there if you work at it.

[rfd]

the thing about upping the caliber past .50 for critters larger than whitetails is that not-so-good hit you inadvertently make on that elk or moose.

[triggerhappy243]

SimonT, when you reference Kangaroos, it suggests you are in Australia.... correct? A 50 is just fine for target work. I think there is a few other shooters here that shoot outwards of 300 yards on hunting and match shoots, using a conical type bullet. My 54 is a bit of a bruiser when I shoot the Maxi-ball.

[swathdiver]

A 50 calibre round ball with 75 grains of ffg will shoot clear through a 1200 pound buffalo...

Out of curiosity, at what range?

[Whitesmoke]

Maxi balls or bullets don't have a big following here.

Those I have seen at the range are used in big bore military class firearms.There,s very little hunting done with BP firearms at all.In twenty years I have only met a couple of blokes who have hunted with a muzzleloader.

While there are several introduced species of deer scattered over the country and they are hunted with bow and centerfire firearms.

Our round ball rifles are pretty much limited to range target shooting and rondezvous which is becoming very popular.
Range competition is organised by class of firearm and ignition type,
basically single shot pistol, revolver, shotgun,military rifle,smooth bore and rifle for roundball.

Whitesmoke

[Hanshi]

My favorite for deer size game is the .45 prb. I've killed deer with the .45, .50 and .54 but always seem to come back to the .45.

[SimonT]

So i placed my order for the Deerstalker in 54 :) should be here in 3 weeks.
That will give me some time to get a few other bits and pieces together. Thanks Whitesmoke for all your guidance so far!

[rfd]

My favorite for deer size game is the .45 prb. I've killed deer with the .45, .50 and .54 but always seem to come back to the .45.

aye, sir, i like a good .45 as well. just received an in-the-white M&H and will be finishing off the stock ...

http://i.imgur.com/CKy3r1b.jpg

[waksupi]

aye, sir, i like a good .45 as well. just received an in-the-white M&H and will be finishing off the stock ...

http://i.imgur.com/CKy3r1b.jpg

I'd take a pile of wood off of it first. There is a rifle hid in there somewhere!

[rfd]

I'd take a pile of wood off of it first. There is a rifle hid in there somewhere!

aye, there'll be some abrading done for sure, but not too much. this is a late 18th to early 19th century po' boy farmer's barn rifle. they weren't the slim jims with lotsa furniture that were sold to the well-to-do.

[Lonegun1894]

So i placed my order for the Deerstalker in 54 :) should be here in 3 weeks.
That will give me some time to get a few other bits and pieces together. Thanks Whitesmoke for all your guidance so far!

Perfect choice! I have both .50 and .54, and much prefer the .54. Then again, I was always taught that it easier to load down a big gun safely than it is to load up a small one.