Very disappointed in my first reloads.

[runningbear44]

Just shot 20 of my first reloaded ammo. I loaded 44 mag with Starline brass, 20 gr H110, Cast Performance 300gr wfngc, & CCI 350 mag primer. Shot from Ruger Super Blackhawk with 7.5 inch barrel & open sights. I was on a bench.

At 12 yards 1.5-2 in group. At 20 yards opened up substantially to 5inces or so. At 25 it was too erratic to consider.

I'm not the world's worst shot but realize that some operator inconsistency was involved. As a new reloader I'd like some experienced advice on additional factors to consider. Does my gun just not like the load? Too much powder? Not enough powder?

What steps/direction should I take in getting things more accurate?

[rancher1913]

you might slug your barrel and make sure the boolits are the right size.

[williamwaco]

That Ruger is capable of 2 to 3 " at 25 yards with the factory sights and a reasonably skilled shooter.

We need to know all the details of your load.

I suspect the problem is with your bullets.

I believe they are commercial cast. Commercial cast bullets are usually too hard and too small.

Mike them and let us know the actual diameter.

Use a Micrometer - NOT a caliper.

Remove your cylinder. Try to slip a bullet base first into each cylinder throat and report how they fit.



Did you get any leading?

[454PB]

It would also be good to know what "bench" technique you used. Some people rest the barrel, others rest their wrist. The load you used is normally very accurate.

[MT Chambers]

Maybe load up some at lower pressure (recoil) levels, see if it's an "operator" issue.

[jcren]

Not experienced with that load, but a 300grain 44 is a long bullet for most stock pistols. The longer The bullet, thr higher The rpm/velocity required to stabilize it. I believe that load is max/near max, so you may need a shorter lighter bullet to maintain stability at longer ranges.

[Ben]

Is it possible to have a 2nd person shoot the revolver ( hopefully a skilled marksman ), to compare his performance to yours ? ?

[Scharfschuetze]

Most new reloaders start their sojourn into reloading with jacketed bullets, so good on you starting with cast boolits. On the other hand, cast boolits can present problems that jacketed bullets don't, so use the scientific method to solve the problem and only change one component at a time while getting to an answer.

A symptom of too small a boolit as suggested by posters above would be some leading in your bore from gas cutting on the sides of the boolit. Check your bore for excessive leading and if you have it, that might be a clue as to your issues.

As noted above, check not only your bore dimensions in comparison to your projectile's diameter, but also your charge hole throats. Should just slip through the throats and then be hopefully full bore diameter or a thousandths or two larger.

Don't give up with just a single boolit's style, weight and make. I'm making an assumption that are using commercial boolits so try some softer boolits like Speer or Hornady swaged boolits over moderate charges of Unique and establish an accuracy base line with those or at least a base line with factory loads before proceeding too much further and getting frustrated. Softer recoiling loads, as you already know, will allow you to concentrate on your shooting technique.

[runningbear44]

Pics for your consideration:
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[clum553946]

If you try reduced loads, go to another powder. H110 cannot be reduced too much or you'll get into another set of problems. Don't go below the lowest published data.

[Schrag4]

I'm a relatively inexperienced reloader, only having reloaded 9mm and 40 S&W, for the last 3 or 4 years. I only recently got into casting. I wouldn't get discouraged that your first 20 rounds didn't shoot well. I'm under the impression that it takes most people a while to find the right combination of components and load parameters (OAL, etc) that works best in their guns.

[runningbear44]

154211
The spent brass seems excessively dirty to me.

[454PB]

154211
The spent brass seems excessively dirty to me.

Not to worry, that is not unusual when using cast boolits. Some of the lube gets blown back onto the brass upon firing.

[bangerjim]

Check your load data against the published H110 data. You DO have the #4 Lyman Cast Bullet Book right?

I shoot a 240gn cast SWC with 23gn H110 with good accuracy. As said do not lite load H110.
You have picked a very "tough" 1st try with that cal and that powder.

Most start with simpler 9mm, 40 S&W, 38SPL, or 45LC loads. The 44mag with H110 is a high-end gun and narrow load profile, not really a beginner's gun/powder combo.

Slug your barrel. Check diameter of those slugs you are now using. Check load data. Buy a manual if you do not have one.

A "bench" is a VERY broad definitiion! Explain.

Get some mre forgiving powder thatn H110 to start with. Check the load data books and your LGS shelves.

Good luck!

banger

[44MAG#1]

Shoot offhand at 25 yards and call your shots. If you can call your shots and the bullets land pretty close to the place the sights were when the gun fired then your bench technique is pitiful.
If your bench technique is pitiful then work on that before you try doing serious benchrest shooting.
I don't care about cylinder throat, bullet diameter barrel groove diameter etc. as long as the bullet is close to throat diameter and reasonable in size you don't get that type of accuracy your getting. While you may not get wallet groups the gun and load should do better than what you were doing regardless.
Worry about the wallet groups later when you have got everything else under control.
Oh yes you are in the ball park with the powder charge and weight.
I would bet it is you mostly. That bullet and load should do far better than that regardless unless the bullet is so far undersized that it would be akin to shooting a smooth bore.

[OnHoPr]

I don't know about the loads but you could have someone else shoot it to find out at least one parable. I don't know how handgun experienced you are or at least with that type of weapon. Properly loaded and shot it should be less than 4" maybe 6" @ 100 yd and there are ones that can do better than that from the bench.

[rond]

I use a very heavy crimp with H110, almost to the point of bulging the case.

[Ola]

Some years ago I had those same bullets. Loaded them with max loads of VV N110. I could never get the accuracy I wanted. In the end I thought my S&W just doesn't "like" cast bullets.

How wrong I was. A cast bullet (f.e. RCBS 240 Sil) in .431..

[williamwaco]

154211
The spent brass seems excessively dirty to me.

Cast loads almost always deposit some lube and carbon around the mouth of the case but that far back along the case wall is not common in my experience.

I usually see that with loads that are too light to expand the case walls to obturate the chamber.

That said, according to my manuals, ( Lyman ) your load is already above max.

[runningbear44]

The load info I used was given to me by Grizzly Cartridge who manufactures the Cast Performance bullets.

[Ola]

rb44: have you measured the bullets? Are they .430?

[44MAG#1]

Regardless of what the load book says that is a safe load. That is the bullet Federal uses/did use in their cast core ammo.
While 20 gr H110 is up there it is not unsafe.
As I said that load should do a lot better unless there is something bad wrong with the gun. Personally I use CCI 300 primer myself. or no hotter than the WLP primer.
As I said if you can call the shots and they land close to the sights (if sighted in) offhand at 25 then there is something wrong with your benchrest technique.
This is assuming you can shoot well offhand.
As suggested get a known good shot to shoot the loads and see what they can do. Now not just someone that can only shoot a 22 handgun well but someone that can shoot a 44 mag well.
There is a difference you know.

[TCLouis]

To load one load at random and expect much, is not facing reality, though that is usually a pretty decent performing load.
How were you resting the gun?
Barrel, frame, grip . . . some combo?

The other thing I am guessing that that combo had enough recoil to more than surprise a new to the load shooter.
That load is not bad in my Super Redhawk, but are little fun in a Super Blackhawk.

[Win94ae]

To load one load at random and expect much, is not facing reality,

That is why they call it "load development." Sure you can stumble upon a load, or use the same load another does and have good results. But if you want to get the most out of reloading, you load develop for your specific firearm.

[pmer]

Hmm, Well the first thing I'd do is look at the bore for leading. If sharp rifling is present from one end to the other then that is good. I remember from the other thread that 18-20 grains was recommended by Grizzly Cartridge. We know 20.0 grains doesn't work, you could start with 18.0 grains. Load 6 - 8 rounds and shoot them for group size. Then increment the charge up a little and repeat. Try and use the same rest all the way through. Go in .3 grain or .5 grain steps. SINCE you are already at 20.0 grains you could go in descending order by trying 19.5 then 19.0. But next time start low and work up. Half a grain can be a game changer with these hand gun powders.

Mark your targets for the load and use a new target each time (keeping them for reference). Shoot at 20 - 25 yards any closer and it gets harder to see what is going on. If by doing this and still can't find a good load the revolver probably doesn't like the boolit or primer. It could be erratic seating pressure too but my money would be on the boolit.

Watch out for shaving lead when you are seating the boolits and too much lead in the bore will rob accuracy. Even at 18.0 you'll have more than enough power for the task.

[runningbear44]

Appreciate the input on this project. Bear season is in full swing and I've had to put a temporary hold on the project until Ive got time to do some loading & shooting.

[runningbear44]

Well, the rain dampned my bear hunting so I loaded same ammo but reduced load to 18gr of H110. Significant improvement & consistency. I also got my Dad, who is a retired Sheriff & 2x state Sheriffs association pistol champ, to shoot the Ruger with me. Things are looking up.

[toallmy]

Keep on the size , and seating play with the powder and it will work out , that is what makes it fun . By the time you get it worked out you will love loading your owne. Be safe

[scorpion]

Pics for your consideration:
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154208154209
I could be wrong but is the crimp groove filled with lube?

[runningbear44]

I could be wrong but is the crimp groove filled with lube?
No sir, not on these Cast Performance bullets it isn't.

[runningbear44]

I could be wrong but is the crimp groove filled with lube?
No sir, not on these Cast Performance bullets it isn't.
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