300 AAC issues

[adanymous]

Hey guys, I have a 311 247 mold from NOE. I cast a couple hundred the other day and sized em to 309 with the felix red ( I think thats the name of it). I put em on top of 10.3 gr 4198 cause I have about 20-25lb of it. I couldnt get it on paper at 25yd, so I moved to 10. It was barely on a 2 ft wide piece of cardboard with all my scope adjustment used (leupold mkII). And it was shooting 4 inches at 10yd. Also there was a ton of lead in my suppressor. I shoot this same load with some jacketed 220s and get fair (not great) accuracy, and a low sound signature. Any hints?

[adanymous]

Oh, the gun is a rem 700 sps in 300aac

[Hamish]

Too small, too slow,,,,,,,

[Gtek]

With a low round count personally with this one, I would say first move is to confirm dimensions and that you are not sizing bases when seating. Also powder choice, I would move up the list a little and you may find 1680 to be your friend with your set up and that speed. Just thinking if it is sizing and as much that sits internally you may be smoking the tails off before it even gets to the pipe. "Ton of lead in my suppressor", what a about the bore? Sorry your sitting on all that 4198, any big cases and big boolits in the house?

[adanymous]

Too small, too slow,,,,,,,
Im not sure what too slow means, please elaborate.

[adanymous]

With a low round count personally with this one, I would say first move is to confirm dimensions and that you are not sizing bases when seating. Also powder choice, I would move up the list a little and you may find 1680 to be your friend with your set up and that speed. Just thinking if it is sizing and as much that sits internally you may be smoking the tails off before it even gets to the pipe. "Ton of lead in my suppressor", what a about the bore? Sorry your sitting on all that 4198, any big cases and big boolits in the house?
That makes sense. Ill measure some pulled bullets tomorrow. I guess I should re-measure the bore. I have some cerrosafe I guess I should do that tomorrow too. Im tired of buying jacketed bullets, and I want these to work. I have a pound of HH1680 I can try out. I have all that 4198 cause my 223s all really like it, my dads did too, and he recently passed so I got an extra 10 lb or so from him.

[Hamish]

Every .308 bore I shoot takes a .310. I shoot the Lee 155 and the NOE 311-196 over 15.7 of Reloder 7 in the BO in the AR and CVA sngle shot pistol. With the 196 I initially tried 12.0 of 4198. My notes say "appears SEMI accurate". I believe there is good reason why the faster powders seem to make accuracy a little easier.

[Digital Dan]

Puzzling if you have fast enough twist to stabilize the bullet. Your results on targets suggest not. 1:10 does not have the best track record with bullets that long. JBM says the bullet will be unstable at Mach 1, better above and below by fair margin.

[petroid]

Since you're shooting a bolt gun, I have a couple of suggestions as well. First, size to the throat. If you can't measure the throat, size to ID of a fired case mouth. Load as long as magazine and chamber will allow without touching lands and work up loads seating deeper until desired accuracy is found. Also, remember you don't have to cycle a gas-operated action so pistol powders will work very well and be much quieter than the magnum handgun and fast rifle powders you find load data for. 4ish grains of bullseye, clays, 700-X, red dot etc. is a very effective and VERY quiet load.

[BK7saum]

I'm guessing you have a couple of issues. 1:10 twist for an unstable Boolit and leading likely caused by boolits sized down by the cases.

I have a 700 300 whisper with a 1:8 barrel. The boolits are sized 0.3095 and case necks are expanded with a 0.3095 M type expander. The springback allows enough neck tension and I don't have to worry about boolits getting sized down.

[BK7saum]

I found with my softer allow I was unable to use fast powders with the 247, but thry work very well with the MP311410 with deep hollow point. The MP311410 weighs about 130 grains and I've been surprised with the penetration.

[adanymous]

Well, schnitzel! I didnt even think to check the rifling of that barrel. I got the gun in a trade deal and thought it was kinda cool so I kept it. (Although honestly its a pretty clunky thing, rem needs to work on some stuff)

I have tried unique in the gun, but found similar accuracy issues to what im describing with some 180 gr jacketed bullets. I have some 135 jacketed bullets I can try.

Also I hadnt thought about swaging the bullet down in my dies. I was running it through a lee factory crimp die, so that could be doing it. Opinions? Ill see if I have a bigger expander ball to throw on a die set. Also im gonna cerrosafe this thing as soon as the sun gets up good and get a plan together to get this gun shooting. currently it sucks with everything. But if its 1/10 my heavy bullets could be the WHOLE problem.

[adanymous]

The rifling is the 5r (whatever that means) 1-7. My AR is 1-8, Id think they would both like the heavier bullets. But I will try the light ones and see what happens. I have 3 days to monkey with it, so Im gonna!

[BK7saum]

Do you have a 303 British or 7.62x39 die set to borrow expander from?

[adanymous]

When I was going through my dads stuff I saw something that said 303 brit. Im gonna dig around and see what I can find. Though it might have been a 311 lube sizer die.

[Smoke4320]

I have 2 blackouts. 1 AR , 1 Ruger American . both are 1-7.
Both shoot the Noe 311247 deep HP very well using 50/50/2 alloy (COWW/PB/HSB)
Two great loads. 7.1 grs lil gun is subsonic
10.7 (IIRC) lil gun gets me over 1425 fps
I size both to 311 after powdercoating
Expanding neck to 310
Also found better groups when using crimp

[Tackleberry41]

A standard 300AAC die won't expand a case for a cast bullet. Its made for 308 jacketed. I noticed even my .311 expander for my mosin is still a bit tight for cast. I went and bought an 8mm expander and cut it down for .314. But recently switched over to the NOE expanders, they work really well.

As for your powder. Yea its good to use what we have, but being a bolt gun and not worried about cycling an action, look at the faster pistol powders. My mosin, which is 1-9.5, will launch the same bullet w 9gr of S1000, you would need considerably less due to case capacity. And it shoots really good groups. Mine are fitted to the rifle throat, touching the rifling. To long to even eject a live round. But they work really well. You will find using a can, less powder is always better.

[Digital Dan]

The rifling is the 5r (whatever that means) 1-7. My AR is 1-8, Id think they would both like the heavier bullets. But I will try the light ones and see what happens. I have 3 days to monkey with it, so Im gonna!

Well, something ain't working. What is your estimated velocity and alloy you're casting with? Are any of the bullets printing on paper tipped or sideways?

[adanymous]

Well my throat is .3107, a bit big. My sizer is spitting em out at .311, and my die is swaging them to .309. So Im thinking I need a bigger expander ball and a bigger sizer die. What do you guys think.

[adanymous]

Well, something ain't working. What is your estimated velocity and alloy you're casting with? Are any of the bullets printing on paper tipped or sideways?

Funny story about that... I moved to SC in July, in the move all of my lead of known alloy was "mis placed" by the movers, along with 10 lb of ingoted tin, 2k sierra match king 175s and all my nicer cleaning stuff. Youd think they wouldnt be able to forget where they put a milk crate full of lead ingots.

The velocity is sub sonic. Id chrono it, but like I said I just moved to SC and if you follow the news youll know it flooded here about a month back. I lost my chrono in the flood, along with all of my .22 lr (5 bricks) and every primer I owned..... Actually I dried the primers out and Im shooting them, they are mostly reliable. Only 2 failures so far out of 100-120 shot.

I did have one elongated hole in the cardboard. So it may have been tipped.

[Hamish]

Well my throat is .3107, a bit big. My sizer is spitting em out at .311, and my die is swaging them to .309. So Im thinking I need a bigger expander ball and a bigger sizer die. What do you guys think.

I think you're hot on the trail here,,,,,,,,,,i suspect your size die would get you by, but bigger couldnt hurt. Do yourself a favor and invest in a set of NOE expander spuds for the Lee Universal Expander body, worth every penny.

[adanymous]

Do yourself a favor and invest in a set of NOE expander spuds for the Lee Universal Expander body, worth every penny.

Would this replace the need for a larger expander ball?

[adanymous]

Had another thought. The lead I poured these from was range scrap. I thought I might soften em up some to see if I could get any expansion out of them so I added some round balls that dont fit any of my RB shooters. So maybe the RBs (prob 25%) softened it up too much? I still got good mold fill out, and sharp lube grooves, flat bases. Opinions?

[adanymous]

I was looking into the NOE expanders. Do they flare like the M die does? or do I have to run the case through a flare die too? NOE recommends running the expander .001 over bullet dia. So if I leave my sizer die at 311 do I need to have him make a 312 expander or can I use the 311 offered? Sorry for so many questions. Not trying to be a pest.

[Tackleberry41]

The NOE expanders work pretty much like the Lee pistol expanders, so yes a little flare, but less bell than a Lee, more of just opens it up a little extra so a cast can go in. Their just not hollow like Lee, and made to go in their universal 'expanding' tool. They are well worth the money. I bought an extra lee expander die so I don't have to switch them out so much.

[Jupiter7]

I was looking into the NOE expanders. Do they flare like the M die does? or do I have to run the case through a flare die too? NOE recommends running the expander .001 over bullet dia. So if I leave my sizer die at 311 do I need to have him make a 312 expander or can I use the 311 offered? Sorry for so many questions. Not trying to be a pest.
The Noe stepped expander a for the Lee die work like Lyman M-die. This is what I use for .311 bullets and the 311247. I had 2 of the 300blk 700's, neither shot that bullet well. I got rid of both, the AAC Handi rifle replaced one and I already had an AR.

[adanymous]

The gun doesnt cycle well either. It jams up quite a bit even with pointy jacketed bullets. Ive been shooting some 180 gr speer bullets through it, trying to find something it will shoot well, but so far it doesnt shoot anything well. Im gonna load up some 135 gr hornady bullets here in a few and see if it spits those out with any regularity.

Im ordering the NOE expander and Ill see if that helps. If this rifle doesnt shoot this bullet I may switch to a lighter bullet. But Im not interested in going too light.

Any suggestions on a good load for this thing at 135 gr? Subsonic loads are what I need.

[BK7saum]

I would imagine that subsonic loads lighter than 180 will not cycle in an AR platform even if you had a pistol length gas setup. I don't think there would be enough pressure or gas volume to work.

I shoot 130-135 grain MP311-410 hollow points subsonic in a 300 whisper bolt action. 4.7 grains of trailboss is very quiet. I have killed a couple of medium sized pigs with that load.

[adanymous]

So I noticed that nobody shoots a light sub sonic. So I decided to try some nosler 220 fmjs I had laying about. Put em on 10.8 A1680. They actually grouped pretty well. It shot about an inch at 50. Thought I might go shoot a pig tonight so I pulled my scope and put on my thermal. I sighted my thermal at 25 and shot my hot target through the cardboard backer. Good!

Went to the woods. Saw a pig at 30ish (hard to tell in the dark). Missed him. Saw another one a bit later at 60ish, missed him and saw the bullet spark off a guy wire for a telepohone pole a couple of feet away from my point of aim.

Frustrating.

[snuffer61]

Just a thought. You mention "there is a ton of lead in my suppressor". Have you tried shooting groups without the suppressor on?
Could possibly have alignment issues.

[Tackleberry41]

If your going subsonic you generally want to go heavy, might as well. That barrel twist should shoot a 230 cast easy. I was testing some NOE 230gr in a mosin this weekend. Its 9.5 twist, a 1934 tula was putting 3 of them nearly on top of each other at 50 yds. Took some work, no way they would feed thru a magazine, can't eject a live one. There sized .311, use the NOE expander to .312. It likes those better than a 200gr NOE I have. Powder well won't do you any good, I use 8.8 gr of s1000. Friend of mine is using the 208gr Amax in his 300AAC, AA1680, and it runs fine without messing with the gas system. Not near as quiet, but would take some messing with it to run w less pressure.

[adanymous]

Well, I got it shooting kind of. It will touch 3 at 50 off of high bipods. The type you would use to shoot over high grass. Not the most stable platform so it may tighten up. I bought the NOE part a couple of guys suggested and that seemed to fix my issue. I put the 311247 on top of 10.3 gr of 4198, because I shipped my 1680 can off to a buddy (long story). But it seemed to shoot pretty well. And a low sound signature which is great. Ill tinker with it a bit more and maybe I can get some cloverleafs out of it. I hope to shoot it at 100 tomorrow, hopefully with good results. If so I think Ill keep this load.

Im loading longer than SAAMI and the rounds dont like to feed well through the box mag. The last round feeds fine but the one opposite the last round in the mag rarely feeds without jamming. Im thinking of taking a file to the lips on the mag. Anyone have any ideas?

[adanymous]

I may have spoken too soon. If anyone has any advice id appreciate it. I shot some good groups yesterday. Loaded another 100 and shot most of em today. The first 35 shot AWFUL. So bad I kept shooting thinking it was the best way to reclaim my hard earned brass and try again. But then they started shooting AMAZING. Like 6 through one hole at 50 yd amazing barely even enlarged the hole. Then it went right back to ****, then it got better. So on and so on. It seems I can get a bit of a good group going then I send one 4 or 5 inches high and left or right. Im stumped.

[Elkins45]

I can't get the NOE 247 to stabilize in my 1:10 308 at subsonic speeds. Honestly it doesn't spin all that great from my 1:8 blackout either.

[MarkP]

I am shooting the NOE 247 & the HP version, it has about 1/8 trimmed off of the nose as compared to the 247 but extract profile. Shooting in a Rem M SEVEN Micro in 300 AAC 1:7" I think 9 gr or H-110 was right at 1,250 fps accuracy was 1 to 1.25" at 75 yds and 3" at 175 yds (dropped about 18" from POA) The 247's shoot real well out of a Rem SEVEN in 300 SAUM with a full case of Trailboss 1:10" twist. I would guess velocity is 1,500 / 1,600 ish but not certain. They did not shoot well out a of Rem 700 MTN in 300 wby 1:12" twist even at 2,200 fps some were hitting sideways.