Is building or buying a PID really worth it instead of a thermometer for lee 4-20?

[chrisstophere]

The subject says it all. Lately I've seen lots of people posting about how great a PID is. I'm not very electrically inclined so I opted for a traditional lead thermometer. I haven't really seen an issue with using the thermometer except waiting a little bit while the temp settles after turning the knob. Am I missing out on something here?

[mongoose33]

In my opinion, you are. Rather than using the very imprecise methods of maintaining temp on a Lee pot, the PID will dial it in and keep it there. You want to move the temp up 15 degrees or down 10 degrees? Dial it in.

Do you have to have one? No. Can excellent boolits be produced using a thermometer instead of a PID? Yes.

But if you want excellent control of temperature, this is probably the best way.

[dragon813gt]

Yes and no. I'm sure a few members will tell you that you don't need one. And they will go into great detail as to why and how perfect their bullets are w/out one.

In all honesty you don't need one. But it's a nice thing to have. It's one less thing to monitor. Set the temp and let it do it's thing. This allows you to focus on your cadence and other casting techniques.

Goodsteel did a writeup at some point about consistency. I plotted a bell curve w/ and w/out a PID. W/out one the bullets were typically +-.5 grains. W/ the PID I'm down to about +-.1 grains. This is a drastic difference. I still get ones that are well outside that range. But when 95+% are that consistent I think it's money well spent.

[chrisstophere]

These are good testimonies. I may try building one off of a write up I found on a blog site that made it look really easy. Buying a nice one someone else builds is looking like $150 bucks and to me, that's another custom mold.

[Beagle333]

There are several "walk-you-through-it" threads and many guys will help if you want to build one. Or just buy one from one of our vendors here.
It sure does make it easier to concentrate on your casting, as the temp will be perfect from a full pot all the way down to the bottom of the probe. It won't keep getting hotter and hotter as you pour, as Lees wants to do.

[chrisstophere]

... Or just buy one from one of our vendors here...

You don't happen to know a, name of a vendor on the site that offers them? I wouldn't mind buying one just to support the site a long as the price isn't too outrageous.

[dragon813gt]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?261890-A-Sample-of-my-work

[chrisstophere]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?261890-A-Sample-of-my-work
Thanks. I sent him a PM.

[ndnchf]

I got a PID from Deputy Dog a few months ago and love it. The directions that come with it are not very clear, but once I figured it out, I was set. To me it was worth every penny.

[jmorris]

I suppose it depends on how the PID is programmed, one could be programmed to be worse than your thermostat but they can also be programmed so they maintain temperature more accurately.

[Walter Laich]

I was of the mind that I didn't need one--cast for decades without one.

Then built one mostly to see if I could....

Night and Day!

I would suggest to anyone who asked me to get one.

just my 2¢

[chrisstophere]

I think I'm going to try and build one. The pre built ones that are worth a damn are kinda pricey though. I'm going to follow this write-up and just ask questions along the way if I get stuck.
http://rvbprecision.com/shooting/build-a-pid-for-constant-bullet-casting-lead-temperature-control.html

[Yodogsandman]

I was of the mind that I didn't need one--cast for decades without one.

Then built one mostly to see if I could....

Night and Day!

I would suggest to anyone who asked me to get one.

just my 2¢

DITTO!

Not much info on that link except for parts lists. Do some reading up on this site on threads that involve building your own PID. Decide which buzzers and bells you want and jump in!

[chrisstophere]

DITTO!

Not much info on that link except for parts lists. Do some reading up on this site on threads that involve building your own PID. Decide which buzzers and bells you want and jump in!

I'm not sure by what you mean by bells and whistles. I thought the device just regulated the power of the pot based on the temperature its sensor is reading. Can\Do these PIDs do even more? I was going to start with those basic parts and just go from there. Adding it up though, it came to about 100$ or so and deputy dog's isn't much more. I would like to learn how to do it myself though.

[jmort]

The "thermostat" on your pot will hit the setting you are on, say "7" and let's say it is at 700 degrees, would be nice if it worked like that, and then the pot goes "off" until the temp drops, say 15 to 20 degrees as noted above, and then it kicks back on. The PID eliminates/reduces/minimizes the temperature throttling up and down, and as noted above, keeps it close to dead nuts on the temperature setting, say 700 degrees. I just bought my PID as I am not good with electronics and don't want to bury a bunch of my time and have it not work so good in the end.

[jgh4445]

Thinking about buying a PID also. There are some 40-50 dollar ones on the auction sites. Do you think they will work OK? I just use a Lee Production pot for now.

[bangerjim]

±10°F from the internal bi-metal thermostat (what I get with my Lee pots) is more than sufficient for lead temp control for a simple hobby lead pot. Has been for many generations of casters.

Spend the money if you got it. I have it (and design & sell industrial digital controller systems) and do not use one on my casting pots, ovens, or anything else. (I do have one sitting on my shelf just reading room temp of my shop!) And I have taught college level classes on proportional/integral/derivative control algorithms and sell industrial grade controllers to control tons of stuff where REAL process control is actually needed for manufacturing and government regulations.

I just turn my Lee 4-20 pot dials to 6.5 and get perfect boolits by the thousands. Time after time.

The decision is totally up to you. It takes some skills (mechanical and electrical) to successfully build a working one, but there are enough folks on here that have done it that are willing to lead you down that path.

If you do not have the confidence in the aforementioned skill sets, you can easily procure a completely built and containerized unit from several fine vendors on here. Just plug-n-play-n-cast.

Have fun!

[DerekP Houston]

I haven't had any issues yet...but will probably buy a PID from the member here that makes them. Anything I can do to take a variable out of the casting.

[chrisstophere]

Well the melt getting hotter as it runs lower is what is getting me now that I started casting heavy rifle rounds.

[Yodogsandman]

I'm not sure by what you mean by bells and whistles. I thought the device just regulated the power of the pot based on the temperature its sensor is reading. Can\Do these PIDs do even more? I was going to start with those basic parts and just go from there. Adding it up though, it came to about 100$ or so and deputy dog's isn't much more. I would like to learn how to do it myself though.

Some add indicator lights for things like "power on" or "power to pot on". I wish I'd added another 120V female plug to power up my hot plate. Made mine with a 12 foot cord to reach the wall outlet and forgot I'd still need power to the hot plate. Easier to just add another wall outlet now.

You can customize your PID to suit your environment or whims. Most of us "find" an enclosure to fit the PID components. I used an old metal file card box. You might want to be able to remove the temperature sensor so, want to get a connector for that. You might want to remove the power cord, too. It's all up to you, the builder.

By really shopping smart and scrounging some, your components should be closer to $50 total.

[wv109323]

The PID would definitely help over temperature when the pot gets low. My Lyman 20 lb. pot had the bi-metal thermostat external to the pot. So the "on-off" of the heating element was controlled by the air temperature of the "housing" where the thermostat was mounted.
The PID gets the lead temperature via the thermocouple that is immersed in the molten lead. The PID can control temperatures by + or- 10 degrees.
I switched to the PID after three rebuilds of the wiring and terminals of the factory set-up. The next rebuild would have required the thermostat replacement. I was going to have $40. in the rebuild and could get the PID for $80. I went with the PID and my casting is a lot better.
I never had a thermometer so I was just "in the dark". With time the setting of the thermostat needed to be set higher and higher til it finally died. I also had no idea when the lead was back up to temp. after adding ingots.
I recommend the PID. Also get a hot plate to pre-heat your molds.

[Ranger 7]

Casting for 9 years using thermometer to regulate the temperature.
Been using A Lyman 25 for a bit over a month and the temperature stays within 8 degrees.
Bullets are round and tight diameter (N0 more sizing) and within 0 to plus 0.8 Grains, Yes 0.8 grains.
Best and most consistent bullets I ever produced!
The Lyman 25 Magnum is very well spent money!

[chrisstophere]

Casting for 9 years using thermometer to regulate the temperature.
Been using A Lyman 25 for a bit over a month and the temperature stays within 8 degrees.
Bullets are round and tight diameter (N0 more sizing) and within 0 to plus 0.8 Grains, Yes 0.8 grains.
Best and most consistent bullets I ever produced!
The Lyman 25 Magnum is very well spent money!
I thought I read somewhere about the mold tray not fitting all molds very well with that pot. Did they redo the design or something?

[mgread]

What my PID look like running. I added a thermocouple plugged so if I want I can use it on other pieces of equipment.

https://vimeo.com/146975305

[edctexas]

In the long run you are the only one that can determine its worth. If you are just a "plinker" at heart, you might easily do without one. If you enjoy chasing smaller groups and a more useful velocity, you would probably want a PID. I was p***d off by the Lee thermostat and built a PID for it. It did reduce the spread of boolit weight. So its a user choice thing.

Ed C I love my PID! But I don't really really need it.

[chrisstophere]

I'm thinking I want one more cause I like gadgets more than anything. Luckily I'm broke now and won't have some cash till xmas so I have some time to think about this.

[Retumbo]

Its all about consistency and repeatability.

[edler7]

I built one about 4 years ago and use it every time I cast. It's nice to be able to see the temp of my alloy and also seeing it is always within 1-2 degrees of where I want it. My pour stays the same temp no matter how full or empty my pot is. I put in a load of sprues or some bars and there is no guessing when my pot is back up to temp, I know by the readout. If I want to raise or lower my pot temp, no problem and it takes about 10 seconds to punch in the change. Try raising or lowering your melt temp 20 degrees with the knob on your pot.

I bought my my parts from Auberins and have not had a single problem with them, they are good quality.

I'd give up a mold before I would get rid of my PID. It has eliminated a large variable that was mostly uncontrolled from my casting.

[chrisstophere]

So here's a decision I'm trying to make. Do I spend approximately 150$ on a quality PID for 60$ pot or go the extra mile and get a Lyman pro 25 that has a built in PID along with a shelf warmer. I'm now thinking 2 pots are better than 1.

[dragon813gt]

Keep the Lee pot and put a PID on it. The Lyman pot hasn't been tested for longevity. The extra five pound capacity is nice but the mold guide is worthless. And so is Lyman's customer service. If you want an all in one package then buy the Lyman. I use my PID on more than just the lead pot.

[wv109323]

The mold guide on the Lyman fits a limited number of molds. What I did was take the U-channel and flip it over on the support.. The mold guide is now flat on top and you can use any width mold. It was a pretty simple but the channel had to be drilled to accept a countersunk bolt. This allowed the surface to remain flat.

[P Flados]

Some relatively recent "low dollar - do it yourself" experiences are at:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?285805-pid-for-lee-4-20-110v-pot

[Beagle333]

I would want my PID to be a separate unit. I use my PID for my lead pot, my mold warmer oven (hot plate and gallon coffee can), my powdercoating oven, my lubesizer heaters and my smelting pot. I just have several thermocouples (probes) and they are attached to each device. I just use the little K-type thermocouple plugs to move the PID from one application to another.

[10x]

I cast bullets for years without a thermometer,
then I got a thermometer and casting good bullets became easier
Then I built a PID with parts ordered directly from China and casting bullets became easy and fun.
Cost of the PID, SSR, Thermocouple, and small spade connectors was about $25.00.

Now I have precise (real time) temperature reading and and the PID keeps the lead pot at a constant temperature.
I built a second PID unit for my hotplate mold warmer. Suddenly I was getting good bullets on the first cast.

I use the Rex c100 (in centigrade only) for Solid state relay (SSR) because it is cheaper that way. I used Excel to make up a F to C conversion sheet.

What to watch for
1) make sure the PID runs on 110 to 120 VAC
2) make sure the PID has SSR output - if it does not you will be taking the PID cover off, removing the internal 3 amp mechanical relay and soldering in 2 jumper cables - easy to do if you have the skill (video on this on Youtube) but also easy to destroy the printed circuit
3) make sure you get the K thermocouple with a 4" to 6" probe.


The internal relay can be used with a 9V battery to run an SSR but why add to the expense and wiring?

[chrisstophere]

I have to say everyone's response isn't making this easy. Lucky I won't have extra income until late December because of the holidays so I have time whether to invest in a PID, and if so, build it myself or buy from a forum vendor (I like supporting forum sponsers) or stick with the thermometer method and get better at learning my molds with what I have and maybe getting a NOE mold with the saved funds. Right now I'm hoping I can get the wife to buy it for me from a forum sponser.
Happy post turkey day all as well.

[jgh4445]

PFlados shows some inexpensive PIDs in post #33. In post #17 of that link, there is a $50 unit. Could that unit be wried up to make it possible to use it on a 10lb and a 20lb pot? I assume an additional thermocoupler and probe would need to be bought , for the second unit. What else would be needed. I know the square root of zero about electrical stuff but I can plug stuff in to a wall socket. I'd rather just buy a complete unit from a forum vendor or sponsor if I can find one in my price range.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

PFlados shows some inexpensive PIDs in post #33. In post #17 of that link, there is a $50 unit. Could that unit be wried up to make it possible to use it on a 10lb and a 20lb pot? I assume an additional thermocoupler and probe would need to be bought , for the second unit. What else would be needed. I know the square root of zero about electrical stuff but I can plug stuff in to a wall socket. I'd rather just buy a complete unit from a forum vendor or sponsor if I can find one in my price range.
at the same time ? No
while the PID in that link you mention, says dual display...it is not a dual controller. The Dual display means one display shows the setpoint and the other shows the temp the probe is reading.

Here is a dual PID thread by theperfesser. You will need two of everything.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?71208-Dual-PID-Temperature-Controller

[jgh4445]

No, I don't want to run them at the same time. Sometimes I ladle cast from my 20lb and sometimes bottom pour from my 10lb pot.

[dragon813gt]

Depending on on the type and how you mount the thermocouple you can move it between pots. The thermocouples are cheap on eBay. I suggest you buy a few extra because they do fail. I'm on my second one but have four more waiting when this one fails.

[matrixcs]

I read the threads here and decided to make my own. Found a metal box the right size. Purchased parts on **ay according to the threads here. Put them together and they worked (after I reversed the thermocouple connection)... I found it makes my casting more consistent and warm up time is reduced thanks to pot not cycling on and off with its own controller then it does not overshoot the desired temp. . I have used it to control my toaster oven for more consistent PC bake temperature. My cost was <$50 and I vote...must have..

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

No, I don't want to run them at the same time. Sometimes I ladle cast from my 20lb and sometimes bottom pour from my 10lb pot.
I built my PID controller so it's "convertible", as in, I can move from one furnace to another. The furnace plugs into a power receptacle that I put on the back of the PID controller box and the Thermocouple mounts to the pot, using a spring, just like a plain thermometer. That also allows placement of the TC tip nearest to the spout, where I want to know that temperature, moreso then elsewhere in the pot.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/PID_zps030316e8.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/PID_zps030316e8.jpg.html)


http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu127/JonB_in_Glencoe/PID%20TC_zpsnqfmln4y.jpg (http://s640.photobucket.com/user/JonB_in_Glencoe/media/PID%20TC_zpsnqfmln4y.jpg.html)

[N4AUD]

I would highly recommend a PID. Mine is a separate unit. I read about them, ordered the parts on Amazon and built it. Dead simple if you don't overthink it. It keeps the temperature right on the money, exactly where I want it.

[jgh4445]

John B. ..That's the exact set up I'd like to have. So really all I have to do is buy the one I'm looking at on the auction site, add a receptacle to the controller for the furnace to plug in to and I'm in business.

[MBTcustom]

To the original question: Yes.

[chrisstophere]

Man, I want one sooner rather than later now...

[jgh4445]

Awesome! Just ordered the PID with three TC's. Wonn't hurt to have spares. Also asked the seller if he had a receptacle that I could mount to the controller. Maybe he does, if not, I'll need to find one.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

the hardware store has a variety of receptacles. A standard household duplex receptacle will work. I used a single one, as I had scrounged it from another device...as I did with most of the parts for that controller (except the PID and SSR and TC)

[jgh4445]

Changed my order method. I placed an order with forum member mgread for a complete unit. ( extra probe) it will have the plugs built in and will basically be a plug and play type deal. Rather give money to a member here than to a stranger on the bay. Mgread's unit looks sharp and he will paint to suit your color desires lol. I chose basic black. He will be building it today along with two others he's doing. Glad his business is doing well.

[chrisstophere]

Changed my order method. I placed an order with forum member mgread for a complete unit. ( extra probe) it will have the plugs built in and will basically be a plug and play type deal. Rather give money to a member here than to a stranger on the bay. Mgread's unit looks sharp and he will paint to suit your color desires lol. I chose basic black. He will be building it today along with two others he's doing. Glad his business is doing well.
That's awesome. His unit does look good. Please post some pics and review here after you have it running. After discussing with the wife I'm going to have deputydog put together a custom one for me. I can't move forward to after the 9th though.

[jgh4445]

WOW..forum member mgread ( Mark) is really good! He has already built my unit and sent a video of it actually working! Followed that up with several texts making sure I liked it. Looks great!!!. We spoke earlier on the phone and he asked a bunch of questions to make sure I got exactly what I wanted and needed. He even put the lid on the bottom for easy access to the innards since I'm mounting it under a shelf! I'm excited about getting it. Just waiting on the paint to dry and an additional TC to come in.

[LenH]

For my penny & a half. I got a kit from James Connell aka Frozone at jconninv.com, I got two probes one for the lead pot & one for an old electric smoker. I will say this, it wasn't cheap.
But this guy is a retired electrical engineer and I don't know what keeps electricity in the wall. (tongue in cheek) I got the kit put together in a couple of evenings after dinner.
As everyone has been saying it is setting and forgetting, whether it is at 130° for the smoker or 700° for the lead pot, it will hold that temp ±5 to 10° and after the unit is trained
it will hold the temp just about dead nut.

I don't think you will regret getting one.

[jgh4445]

Got my PID unit from Mread ( Mark) today. It looks awesome! Can't wait to get it up and running. Have to figure it out though..no instructions came with it. Guess I can google MyPin Series T and figure out what the buttons do. For instance, do I press the set button beffore or after setting a temp with the green arrows? What is the blue AT button for? Lots of learning to do.

[mgread]

Got my PID unit from Mread ( Mark) today. It looks awesome! Can't wait to get it up and running. Have to figure it out though..no instructions came with it. Guess I can google MyPin Series T and figure out what the buttons do. For instance, do I press the set button beffore or after setting a temp with the green arrows? What is the blue AT button for? Lots of learning to do.

Call me

[Retumbo]

Time to build my third one...

[jgh4445]

Mark PM'd me. He forgot to include the instructions lol...He's emailing them to me. Awesome!

[mgread]

Here is a copy if anyone need a set.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/14/c6924aa60f10b977751dee8691309d29.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/14/e4b0b818d90f5d57c4c0a05cec655fe8.jpg

[Mike W1]

Got my PID unit from Mread ( Mark) today. It looks awesome! Can't wait to get it up and running. Have to figure it out though..no instructions came with it. Guess I can google MyPin Series T and figure out what the buttons do. For instance, do I press the set button beffore or after setting a temp with the green arrows? What is the blue AT button for? Lots of learning to do.

To set the temperature press the AT button. Hitting the AT button again will "move the digit to be selected". Press SET to lock those values in.

Hold the AT button down for 3 seconds or more and the unit will start to autotune itself. It'll quit flashing when it is done with the process.

Sent you a PM also.