Cast performance on whitetails?

[gishooter]

Hello,
I originally got into casting for inexpensive shooting. After reading about all the successes here, I decided to try hunting fall whitetails five years ago. It went well to say the least. So I did it again each year with the same results. Thick woods where I hunt so shots are under 100 yards. All one shot kills and I can not tell the difference between expensive jacketed hunting rounds I used to use and my cast loads. So a few details:

Gun- Winchester Model 70 Featherweight in .308, small Leupold scope (1.75X6) and sling. Had this rifle for 20 plus years. Killed everything from bull elk to Javelina with one shot. Handles well, plenty accurate, and light enough to tote up and down the mountains. I put it between the ribs and thru the heart and lungs and I've got meat.

Load: Lyman 311291 water dropped No. 2 alloy sized .310 and lubed with Lars. Weighs about 184 grains with a gas check. I use 28 grains IMR 4895 and a 1/2 grain of Dacron. These group very well in my gun and are zeroed dead on at 100 yards. I can easily hit a small gong at 150 yards with this load. Never tried farther than that.

Performance: Again all one shot kills on big corn fed whitetails. They always go right thru. I've never recovered a bullet. I've always wondered how much the round mushrooms or deforms on the way thru. I took a few pictures of a deer I shot this weekend. Notice the small entry hole in the heart compared to the other side?
Has anyone recovered their cast bullet after exiting a deer?

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Never found one that made it through, but I did find the crater in soft soil behind one I shot right under my stand. Probably 2" in diameter and I couldn't reach the bottom of it with my fingers. I did find one in a doe that I shot head on in the chest with ACWW at 50 yards or so. It had expanded into a nice little mushroom around 75% larger than the .309 it started at. Water dropped #2 might be a little to hard to expand much, might even fracture a bit, but it appears to work just fine from your pics.

[gishooter]

I water drop the 311291s to use in my semi-auto .308 rifles. Good function and accuracy. I might try making some air cooled ones for the next batch. I'm curious to see the difference if any in accuracy. For hunting I doubt it will make any practical difference on the critters.
Anybody else care to share their recovered bullets results?:D

[tdoyka]

mine haven't been shot by a deer, but i found one in a target(backstop is made out of railroad ties with a mound of dirt behind it). it is a 280gr ranch dog in 444 marlin. it goes roughly 1900-2000fps and it goes 12-13bhn.
i've only shot a doe with a 165gr ranch dog(12-13bhn) with my 30-40 krag and it goes around 1800fps. that bullet entered the shoulder, clipped both lungs, hit the heart and then went out thru another rib. the diameter of the boolit on the exit wound appeared to be 1".

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/1442343754741.4_zpszbyfr8zm.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/1442343754741.4_zpszbyfr8zm.jpg.html)
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h273/tdoyka/1442357484701.1_zpsrwcabr5w.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/tdoyka/media/1442357484701.1_zpsrwcabr5w.jpg.html)

[ChristopherO]

This isn't whitetails nor a boolit as heavy as yours but years ago I shot a coyote trotting toward me at 40 yards with a RCBS 112 grain flat nose 30 caliber boolit. That little pill was traveling about 2000fps from the barrel and the allow was #2. The lower jaw bone was hit, exited out the neck and back into the chest resting just under the hide behind the shoulder.
My take on that experience was that if I wanted expansion from just tissue and ribs something less than Lyman #2 would be preferred. The only reason that boolit had deformation was due to the large jaw bone receiving a direct hit.

I am used to casting pure lead conical slugs in my 50 cal muzzleloaders and the expansion they give in a whitetail. I am sure something between pure and #2 will suffice perfectly for deer in CF cartridges and the velocities we are experiencing.

[white eagle]

shot a few deer with different cals with boolits
the only thing I ever recovered was a gas check that I found when
I butchered the animal.That was a head on shot at a doe hit in the
throat patch and exited in the rear,literally,complete pass through.
I have also used a 45-70,44 mag pistol,54 cal black powder and the
one described above was a 358 Winchester.
No boolit recoveries.

[gishooter]

Interesting, thanks for the replies. The only lead projectile I've recovered was a Hornady swaged lead ball out of my TC Hawken in 54 caliber. Broadside shot thru the ribs on a big 10 point from about 25 yards away. I found it just under the hide on the off side. It was nearly flat.

[Steve77]

Of the 2 I shot with cast, I recovered one bullet. It started life as a 200 grain HP from COWW. Recovered weight was 170 grains. I measured the path through the body with an arrow shaft. It passed between the last 2 ribs on the left side and lodged in the right side of the spine traveling 14 inches total inside the animal.

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s656/andrin77/Mobile%20Uploads/20151123_165320_zpsm6dsgjgu.jpg (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/andrin77/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151123_165320_zpsm6dsgjgu.jpg.html)

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s656/andrin77/Mobile%20Uploads/20151123_165212_zpsfmagxqid.jpg (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/andrin77/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151123_165212_zpsfmagxqid.jpg.html)

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s656/andrin77/Mobile%20Uploads/20151123_165234_zps35b3xwwf.jpg (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/andrin77/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151123_165234_zps35b3xwwf.jpg.html)
and one more just because I like the pic[smilie=w:
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s656/andrin77/Mobile%20Uploads/20151117_193657_zpsknt9sujk.jpg (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/andrin77/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151117_193657_zpsknt9sujk.jpg.html)

[Wolfer]

154042

This is is the only cast rifle boolit I've recovered from a deer. 311041 with a small HP. 30-06 at near 1800 fps at the muzzle. Deer was beyond 200 yds. First shot knocked it down but got back up. Second shot put it down for keeps. One shot was a pass through. I don't know which one.
This boolit was a raking shot hitting near the back of the ribs and lodging against the hide near the shoulder. Around 20" of penetration.

This boolit was cast soft. Roughly 1 WW to 2 lead. Bhn 10/11 or thereabouts

edit, my neighbor shot this deer. I tend to not take shots this far out with these loads. However it appears they may work.

[Steve77]

154042

This is is the only cast rifle boolit I've recovered from a deer. 311041 with a small HP. 30-06 at near 1800 fps at the muzzle. Deer was beyond 200 yds. First shot knocked it down but got back up. Second shot put it down for keeps. One shot was a pass through. I don't know which one.
This boolit was a raking shot hitting near the back of the ribs and lodging against the hide near the shoulder. Around 20" of penetration.

This boolit was cast soft. Roughly 1 WW to 2 lead. Bhn 10/11 or thereabouts

edit, my neighbor shot this deer. I tend to not take shots this far out with these loads. However it appears they may work.
Respectable expansion after 200 yds!

[Wolfer]

I thought so. It's well below the bottom of the HP. 1/8"X 1/4" deep. I don't know how fast it's going at 200 but it can't be very fast.

[petroid]

My son and I have each taken a deer this year with the Lee 170FN in the 300BLK at about 1700fps. Cast of range scrap very similar to 50/50 COWW/Pb. Weight is about 180gr with gas check and lube. Shot into milk jugs of water it expanded to about 60cal and weight about 170gr. Both shots on deer were pass through so no boolit recovery.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
My present test media is a filled gallon water jug. 1/2 inch plywood on two opposite sides (ribs). Wrapped with at least two layers of inner tube so there is about 1/2 inch over both sides of the plywood (skin). Not perfect but comes close to the east ILLinois corn crunchers I have fired on down in the river bottoms. Take some duct tape along to plug the jug holes.
For shoulder I add a 3/4 layer of plywood under the inner tube wrap. Again not perfect but easy to repeat and comes close. Just adjust your impact velocity to expected range and shoot at 10 yards. I pop mine at 10-25 yards as most my shots are under 15 yards. But that is river bottom hunting.
Mike in Peru

[Larry Gibson]

I thought so. It's well below the bottom of the HP. 1/8"X 1/4" deep. I don't know how fast it's going at 200 but it can't be very fast.

The 311041 at 1800 fps muzzle velocity should be doing 1300+ - 1250 fps at 200 - 250 yards. Same bullet I used a on a lot of deer but I push them at 2000 - 2200 fps. I never recovered a bullet either but haven't shot a deer that far away with that bullet I cast of COWW + 2% tin then mixed 50/50 with lead. Mine are also slightly HP'd; 3/16" deep.

Larry Gibson

[chutesnreloads]

If he feels .223 is adequate for hogs then it most certainly good enough for deer.No matter which ,shot placement is the key.If loading jacketed ,then bullet selection will be more critical in .223

[Blammer]

get him the 223 and load some decent NBT's or partitions or some good gamekings and go kill some deer.

[jhalcott]

I have recovered a few boolits from deer. I have used caliber from .223 to .45_70 plus 45 & 50 in muzzle loaders. Alloys have been all over the map, from soft to line o type and mono type.I hate auto spell check!!. Nearly all slugs go thru on broad side hits. I dug one out of a soft pine tree that was the size of a quarter. It started out at .30 (311041). I think the tree helped expand it, so don't go by that.

[Ramjet-SS]

I say get him a 458 SOCOM there is nothing on earth he cannot hunt and the RRA upper I have will shoot one ragged hole measuring 1.25" at 100 yards loaded with a 355 grain GS WFN from an Accurate mold loaded over AA5744. Starline has brass easy to reload next mold will be a 300 grain HP CG.

[725]

Shot a wild boar that was headed directly at me. .45-70, 460420 boolit, 40 gr's 3031. Entered the left eye and after traversing 3 feet of pig, I recovered it just under the skin at the back of the right ham. DRT, of course, and absolutely minimal meat loss. Didn't weigh the boolit but it looked all there.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Shot a wild boar that was headed directly at me. .45-70, 460420 boolit, 40 gr's 3031. Entered the left eye and after traversing 3 feet of pig, I recovered it just under the skin at the back of the right ham. DRT, of course, and absolutely minimal meat loss. Didn't weigh the boolit but it looked all there.

Range? Alloy? Expansion?

[Steve77]

I've got an update. When I picked up my doe from the processor yesterday, he gave me 2 of the 3 bullets fired at my recent doe. One was just beneath the skin on the far side, the other was in the flesh almost to the skin the third passed through completely. As you can see from the pic of the hide, all three bullets hit pretty close to the same spot. One of the bullets went through the center of the heart, the others got lungs.
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s656/andrin77/Mobile%20Uploads/20151125_170314_zpsffgphs2w.jpg (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/andrin77/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151125_170314_zpsffgphs2w.jpg.html)

First bullet mushroomed to .719 and weighed 175.8 grains.
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s656/andrin77/Mobile%20Uploads/20151125_185420_zpslnbj6vpq.jpg (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/andrin77/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151125_185420_zpslnbj6vpq.jpg.html)

Second bullet mushroomed to .752 and weighed 164.5 grains.
http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s656/andrin77/Mobile%20Uploads/20151125_185310_zpsxvvfmxgo.jpg (http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/andrin77/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151125_185310_zpsxvvfmxgo.jpg.html)

These were COWW air cooled 200 grain hollow points fired from a 6.5 inch Ruger Blackhawk chronoed at 940 fps.

[TacticalTed.com]

Any of you tried deer using cast boolets on .223/ range/ results?

[pmer]

The only cast boolit I ever recovered was fired from a 12 gauge. It was a 1 ounce smooth bore slug from factory ammo and it stopped in the skin on the off side of a whitetail. It was big and flat by then but had almost all of its weight.

[44man]

Question from you hunters. My GS wants to get an AR. He has a Weatherby 243. Can't decide on 223 or 300BO (super). 223 ammo is definitely cheaper unless I reload for him (or teach him to do it). Which would be better for Texas WT? Either would do good on pigs. He's big enough his other GM wants to get him a Browning Maxus Hunter 12ga semiauto.
It will work but advise was given about the bullets. I have seen sad results with factory loads a friends daughter used. She hit a big doe in the front chest, no blood trail at all. A little later I found her when going to my stand, over 200 yards from the shot. I gutted her and found the bullet only made 6". I shot my deer and called my friend to come and get his daughters. She switched to a 30-30 and loves it.
I have never recovered a cast boolit from any deer. But I use big and heavy.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Have never recovered any of my cast from a corn cruncher. I do not want to recover any as I want an exit hole to leak out. At 65 I like a "red trail " to follow. I find no fun anymore in tracking challenges. I get enough of that using sticking sharp pointy sticks from recurves.
But at the river bottom ranges my deer are "thwaped" with 50-50 and about 1% tin from mag revolvers. It does all I need. Longest shot so far with a revolver is about 15 yards. Even using a 375 Supermag Dan Wesson with PB 255 grainers over 1250 fps I have no concern about leading (I see very little) as there just never was a need for a second shot. Slower velocity at about 1000-1050 I use range lead or 25-75 (WW-range scrap).
Mike in Peru

[Thumbcocker]

Steve 77 that last pic with the BH and the cartridges is just plain sexy.

[Steve77]

Steve 77 that last pic with the BH and the cartridges is just plain sexy.
Thanks, I'm not much of a photographer but sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

[FergusonTO35]

As much as I like my Sierra Pro Hunters (great pass through bullet) I think I'm going to switch to boolits in .30 WCF next season. My Marlins really like the Lee C309-150-RF cast from range scrap over 28 grains IMR 4895. Anybody ever try this slig on deer?

[44man]

I do not want to find any bullet/boolit in a deer. I am not enamored with measured expansion and recovered boolits. It is a step away from a loss. Even worse as animals get larger.
Deer are not big and any boolit that stops is a signal to me that it is wrong. But I have been wrong too with boolits too hard and fast that left no energy so it is a juggling contest.
The hardest lesson I have learned while hunting is to make the gun work every time but my mistakes will make a guy rich if they were paid for.

[waksupi]

Any of you tried deer using cast boolets on .223/ range/ results?

IMHO, the .223 does not have enough frontal area to make effective wound channels. I've used as small as a 6.5, that gave a good wound channel, but I personally would not want to go smaller than that. If you must use a .22 bore size, find a Loverin type design, flat nose. The longest that will fit in the rifle. If a bullet stops in a deer, I consider that bullet failure.

[FergusonTO35]

Agree 100%, two holes are always better than one. One thing I like about mild cartridges is that the slugs don't expand so much and will penetrate. I think the long time trend of flimsy handgun bullets that expand like beach balls for self defense is a very bad idea, especially when lower velocity cartridges and short barrels come into play. Gimme a big flat point and a bit of mushroom on the business end and I'm happy.