.303 British

[rjbenitez9]

Can any one tell me about this rifle p14 paist http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/21/e4e599e8fe48193d469e11c9272b4d06.jpg

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Their history can be found in almost any book dealing with military bolt action rifles. Briefly, the British wanted to replace the Lee Enfield rifle with the P-14 (P stands for Pattern) but World War I came along before that could be accomplished by the British arsenals alone, so big contracts were given to Winchester, Remington and the Remington-operated Eddystone plant to make the P-14; but when their need for rifles outstripped production and delivery of the P-14, they made the decision to stay with the Lee Enfield. The U.S. plants changed over to production of the US Rifle Model 1917 which was a slightly altered version of the P-14, but in .30-06, and which was widely used by U.S. forces after we entered the war. The P-14 saw some use as a sniper rifle and was issued to the Home Guard reservists and some went to India, etc. Both versions of the Enfield became popular for conversion to sporting rifles, and yours appears to be one of them. You can determine which US manufacturer made your rifle by the letter in front of the serial number. W for Winchester, E for Eddystone, and none is Remington. They're a very strong action and many have been converted to magnum calibers.

[Scharfschuetze]

Nice and succinct history of the rifle Gebirgsjaeger. I might add that the action was originally intended to use a high velocity 27 or 28 calibre round and was called the P13. The Great War got in the way of the project and the British wisely stayed with the 303 and changed the nomenclature to P14 when chambered for the 303.

[Larry Gibson]

Nice looking conversion.

Larry Gibson

[W.R.Buchanan]

It also should be noted that the Remington Model 30 Sporting Rifle is essentially a factory sporterized P17.

Randy

[james23]

I have a original as well as one very similar to the photo. I bought my sporter from Century around 1990. Mine was redone in 300 Win mag, a buddy bought one in 7 mm mag. I think they also sold a 308 version and the original .303 at Century as well. It is a well made gun and will last a long time. The stock is not a expensive one but very serviceable. I figure I will put on a Boyd's stock at some point. I have taken many moose and deer with this gun and regard it highly. I paid $200 back then.

[Brithunter]

Can any one tell me about this rifle p14 paist http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/21/e4e599e8fe48193d469e11c9272b4d06.jpg

That looks like a Century Arms P-14 sporting conversion/build to me. Now I am interested in what scope mounts your using as Century machined the ears off and the rear bridge of the action but have been unable to identify for what mounts. They fitted new barrels with 6 grooves but the grooves are deep and the groove size is oversize as I recall. I own a similar rifle but on mine the chambered was so tight it was impossible to resize any cases that had not been firedin it to chamber. So finally got fed up and had it reamed to 303 IMP. Also had another that the chamber was normal on and that one shot very well even at 600 yards with Greek HXP69 ammunition.

There should be the Century Arms stamp on the barrel some where. Hope that helps.

[Hardcast416taylor]

Nice looking sporter job there. When I was rebuilding `Bubba`ed` Enfields I usually started with a Model 1917. The caliber of my choice was .338/06. I would put a nice walnut stock on then a Timney trigger after straightening the floor plate. I ground off the ears then drilled the reciever for scope mounting. Finally a decent dark blue job. Robert

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Hey BH what Improved case did they chamber for you? I have a Remington P14 improved to 303 Epps!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture-4.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Picture-4.jpg.html)

[PAT303]

BAW,who cut the chamber for you?. Pat

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I collect M17 / P14's and the rifle was supposed to be a 'near mint' condition 303 made by Remington. Purchased through an online auction house that went bust so I could not return it!

​These are my Winchesters, two fitted with PH 5B range sights!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture001-1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Picture001-1.jpg.html)

[Scharfschuetze]

Nice looking rifles Bad A$$. I have one from each of the manufacturers. I guess I should get a photo of them all together.

Here is a photo of my Eddystone P 14. It's is in great shape with a virtually mint bore. No Cordite loads for it. No seperated case heads with it either as can be the case with Lee Enfields.

[rollmyown]

Off topic I know, but I'd bet you could exploit that case volume in a Ruger #1 rechambered from 303 Brit to 303 Epps.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Most of these are excellent actions, very well designed for their intended purpose, especially the well protected aperture sight, the first in a series which survives in the US military rifles of today. I can think of three main snags, none of which are inevitably important.

It is a difficult action to build a lightweight rifle on, but good for a magnum conversion in which some weight is desirable. Mine was .300H&H, which might be a bit easier to get to feed than the .300 Winchester Magnum. I have read, I forget where, that it is inadvisable to use the existing barrel (which has very usable contour for other purposes) with these cartridges, because the chamber comes undesirably close to a screwhole.

A full conversion to sporting appearance is more work than most, due to those ears on the receiver, and often a large hole under the rear sight spring. I believe Eddystones also have this, the other manufacturers only sometimes. I nearly filled mine with a shaped steel block and welded over the top. If you try to do it all by welding, it may sag into the bolt way. The safety as fitted, on the other hand, is as good as you can get on any firearm, since it acts on the cocking-piece rather than the sear or trigger, and is easier than the Mauser bolt safety to use under a scope.

A minority of receivers are excessively hard and difficult to drill, while others are of steel burnt by overheating in the forging process. Eddystones in particular sometimes crack the receiver ring, but I believe this more often happens in rebarrelling rather than use. If you are buying unseen, a Winchester or Remington Ilion is the best bet. But these are yes-or-no affairs rather than degree, and if an Eddystone (ERS) receiver ring drills normally and sends out a long, wiry chip, it should be as good as any.

156500

[Der Gebirgsjager]

Interesting information, Ballistics. I converted several of these for one customer who had a gun store. Whenever he would acquire a bubba-ized 1917 model he would bring it into my business and have it converted to .300 Win. Mag. as they sold more quickly than the '06 chambering. The conversion required little more than opening the bolt face in the milling machine and running a .300 Win. Mag. finishing reamer into the existing .30-06 chamber until the bolt would drop on the "go" gauge. He seldom had them in his rack for very long, and I never got any feedback about complaints. They seemed to feed o.k., but sometimes he would carry the conversion further in his own shop by straightening the magazine box, so I don't know what problems he may have encountered in that area. I never much liked doing that (straightening the magazine line) because you lose a round capacity. Most folks don't know that these rifles actually (most of them) hold six rounds, as the charger clips held five. I've still got half a box of ammo that I used to test them after the conversions---and no rifle to shoot it in! Concerning the unsightly hole you mentioned, there are or were several one piece scope mounts that located on top of it and made it "disappear", but I've also seen them filled in with a filler block or black epoxy. I've got a desecrated Winchester 1917 and a fancy grain stock waiting in the project cabinet, but am currently short on ambition. Someday. Maybe. I hope. It will remain an '06.

[Brithunter]

Hey BH what Improved case did they chamber for you? I have a Remington P14 improved to 303 Epps!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture-4.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Picture-4.jpg.html)

Sorry but the online photos wer elost with my Picturetrail account so I will ahve to take a few more of the cases. The 303 IMP is special it seems amde for Norman Clark of Rugby England whom did the reaming job. He also supplied a set of modified Lee dies for it. The rifle is in storage so will try to get it out in daylight sometime in the near future and photograph it and the fire formed cases.

I also own a couple of Commcially built BSA sporting rifles on the P-14 actions one of which was in a sorry state but it now has a nice brand new barrel fitted that was Ball Burnished by AGP and has been reblacked. Just needs a better stock really.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/Project%20P-14/P5280136.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/Project%20P-14/P5280136.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/Project%20P-14/P4300100.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/Project%20P-14/P4300100.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/Project%20P-14/P4300099.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/Project%20P-14/P4300099.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/Project%20P-14/P4300102.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/Project%20P-14/P4300102.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/Project%20P-14/P6110140.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/Project%20P-14/P6110140.jpg.html)

It's currently on a Parker-Hale modified P-14 stock that came of one of their budget target rifle conversions but it need a better stock. The rear sight is a P-H 6E as it originall had one fitted that was badly rusted but luckily I was able to find this new one for it.

The barrel should be about ideal for cast bullets:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/Project%20P-14/P5280137.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/Project%20P-14/P5280137.jpg.html)

That is a commercailly cast 205 grain bullet with a .302" nose sitting in the muzzle.

[james23]

I have a sporterized p14 in 303 that I would love to convert to 7.62 x 39. I am no gunsmith but can the barrel be cut / modified to shoot this? it would be the same bore size and I understand the bolt would have to be converted as well. any thoughts

[Hardcast416taylor]

I`ve been told the ways to lighten an Enfield, irregardless of which model, is to remove metal around the charger slot or straighten the floorplate and another method of shaving some weight is skeltonizing the magazine walls with cut out slots and holes. Boring holes in the butt stock that will be hidden by a recoil pad or butt plate is yet another way besides removing it in the forearm areas. The one thing that I never did was change the cocking to cock on opening of the bolt.Robert

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Interesting information, Ballistics. I converted several of these for one customer who had a gun store. Whenever he would acquire a bubba-ized 1917 model he would bring it into my business and have it converted to .300 Win. Mag. as they sold more quickly than the '06 chambering. The conversion required little more than opening the bolt face in the milling machine and running a .300 Win. Mag. finishing reamer into the existing .30-06 chamber until the bolt would drop on the "go" gauge. He seldom had them in his rack for very long, and I never got any feedback about complaints. They seemed to feed o.k., but sometimes he would carry the conversion further in his own shop by straightening the magazine box, so I don't know what problems he may have encountered in that area. I never much liked doing that (straightening the magazine line) because you lose a round capacity. Most folks don't know that these rifles actually (most of them) hold six rounds, as the charger clips held five. I've still got half a box of ammo that I used to test them after the conversions---and no rifle to shoot it in! Concerning the unsightly hole you mentioned, there are or were several one piece scope mounts that located on top of it and made it "disappear", but I've also seen them filled in with a filler block or black epoxy. I've got a desecrated Winchester 1917 and a fancy grain stock waiting in the project cabinet, but am currently short on ambition. Someday. Maybe. I hope. It will remain an '06.

The P14 has the advantage that the bolt face doesn't need altering for the belted rimless magnum cartridge head, and the extractor little or not at all, I don't remember. The .30-06 magazine might be easier to adapt for extra length, though, and this problem, though not insuperable, becomes more difficult with the full .300H&H length.

[Brithunter]

BSA when they wanted to fulfill the wishes of those hunters whom were clamouring for a lightweight rifle in the late 40's and early 50's they lightened the Majestic rifle and one such method was the scallop out the left side of the action wall as shown here:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/BSA%20Monarch%201st%20pat/P4210072.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/BSA%20Monarch%201st%20pat/P4210072.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/BSA%20Monarch%201st%20pat/P4210068.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/BSA%20Monarch%201st%20pat/P4210068.jpg.html)

They also hollowed the bolt knob :-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/BSA%20Monarch%201st%20pat/P4210064.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/BSA%20Monarch%201st%20pat/P4210064.jpg.html)

Reduced the rear bridge in length:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/BSA%20Monarch%201st%20pat/Monarchaction.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/BSA%20Monarch%201st%20pat/Monarchaction.jpg.html)

Reduced weight of the barrel in the breech area:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/270%20Majestic%20Featherweight%20%20No255/PA010181.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/270%20Majestic%20Featherweight%20%20No255/PA010181.jpg.html)

and cut the barrel back to 22" in length

Plus hollowed out the stock:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/270%20Majestic%20Featherweight%20%20No255/PA010170.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/270%20Majestic%20Featherweight%20%20No255/PA010170.jpg.html)

There is also a hole or two under the butt plate/recoil pad. Result was a rifle that weighed 6 1/4lbs. Then many of the hunters whom had been clamouring for a light weight rifle complained about the sharp recoil they produced :roll:. So BSA developed the BESA recoil reducer:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/BSA%20Majestic/PICT0082.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/BSA%20Majestic/PICT0082.jpg.html)

An integral muzzle break and although this tamed the recoil was too loud for may of the hunters or shooters.

Now the P-14 will never make a proper lightweight rifle but doing similar things would help a little. It seems that these things keep coming around and around!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I`ve been told the ways to lighten an Enfield, irregardless of which model, is to remove metal around the charger slot or straighten the floorplate and another method of shaving some weight is skeltonizing the magazine walls with cut out slots and holes. Boring holes in the butt stock that will be hidden by a recoil pad or butt plate is yet another way besides removing it in the forearm areas. The one thing that I never did was change the cocking to cock on opening of the bolt.Robert

Yes, but none of those methods will remove very much.

I used the Dayton Traister steel trigger and cock-on-opening speedlock kit. Not that I minded cock-on-closing, which actually cushions the wrist. I wanted the shorter lock time.

I found that the safety wouldn't apply when it was done. The tang on the safety wouldn't enter the little curved slot in the cocking-piece. I used a Dremel tool with a diamond burr to cut away less than a pinhead's worth of metal from the corner of the slot, and the safety then went on and off in dead silence, which it hadn't before, and still lifted the cocking-piece a tiny distance off the sear as is essential for safety. If it doesn't, pulling the trigger will drop the cocking-piece onto the safety, and there is no room for the sear to reengage. The rifle will then go off when the safety is removed.

Of course nobody should remove the safety while pointing the rifle in an unsafe direction. Nice theory.
.

[Brithunter]

Hey BH what Improved case did they chamber for you? I have a Remington P14 improved to 303 Epps!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Picture-4.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Picture-4.jpg.html)

This is a case from my 303 Imp rifle:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/303%20Improved/DSCN1206_zpsm4u00ott.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/303%20Improved/DSCN1206_zpsm4u00ott.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v166/Brithunter/303%20Improved/DSCN1208_zpsvmzizipe.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Brithunter/media/303%20Improved/DSCN1208_zpsvmzizipe.jpg.html)

I asked for 303 Epps but this is what I got.

Measurements are :-

Neck length 0.230"
Shoulder dia 0.448"
Web dia 0.450"
Rim to Shoulder 1.818"
Shoulder length 0.66"
Neck Dia 0.341"

The case was fire formed using commercial new Winchester ammunition.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL14/134492/1449358/16934889.jpg

Found an old post with a photo of the Century Arms P-14 sporter that is now in 303 Imp.

Hope that helps.

[Four Fingers of Death]

I'll have to dig out my M17s and take a few photos. I haven't had any luck picking up Winchesters, but have a passel of Remingtons and a few (Remington) Eddystones. The Eddystones were like rear ends here some years back, everyone had one.

I have a Ruger No1 in 303 and would love to 'Epps' it.

Here is my only P14. Eddystone from memory, fat boy stock, complete with front and rear volley sights, which makes it pretty rare I suppose.

http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k228/4fingermick/Military%20shooting/MIcksEddystoneP14withFatBoystockand.jpg (http://s89.photobucket.com/user/4fingermick/media/Military%20shooting/MIcksEddystoneP14withFatBoystockand.jpg.html)

[Blackwater]

As to being strong, I'd have to agree. It's pretty massive as actions go. Steel was a lot cheaper back then I guess? A buddy had one in .243, and in trying some loads, he fired one that opened up the primer hole to over .30 caliber! The case ejected normally, and the primer fell out, as smoke rose from the orfices after the shot. It was like a Timex, and took that licking and kept on ticking. It was accurate, too, with the right loads.

The thing I remember most about the Enfield 14's and 17's is that they are one of the better actions for making a .416 Rigby, with its oversize base for most actions. The extra wt. of the action is a real plus in that application, too. The .416 is one of those calibers that has "that mystique' that makes anyone with a sense of adventure in his heart kind'a go pitty-pat. Always wanted to make one up, but never got the round tuit.

I think a lot of these in both '06 and .303 saw a lot of action in Africa, didn't they? Can't rely on my memory like I used to. What was once an iron trap has become a fish net!